113 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

DA and TW fans are so insecure around each other.

Not all of us.  A lot of us are mostly getting sick and tired of the bickering and potshots towards the fans over their preferences.  Most of the TW fans I've talked to either enjoyed Inquisition or have no problems with those that do.  It's the same in reverse.  It's a small minority that are egging the fans on.  

 

It's pretty stupid to pick at each other, to be honest.  I think we should be happy that RPGs are popular again, and that they can learn and grow from each other.   I know I am.  

[correctamundo]

Give us 3 examples of quests that have choices that affect the ending, then. Or that can have a negative impact on the inquisition\inquisitor.

 

Are you implying that if the baron hangs/does not hang will decide whether Geralt beats the wild hunt?

[Domiel Angelus]

Funny how the quest you mentioned had just as much choice and absolutely no cut scenes or meaningful dialogues compared to the smallest secondary quest in Witcher 3. As for comparing it to Monster Hunter, well i've never played the game so i cant make a proper judgement on which is better. 

 

 

Cut scenes don't make a story, and you get to hear out both Fairbanks and Clara before making your decisions.

 

A large portion of the missions in the Witcher 3, at least the ones I've done, grant the illusion of choice but the outcome is still the same. For example, helping Keira take care of the curse on Fyke Isle can have one of two outcomes: You either release the ghost outside of the isle thus allowing a pesta to wander the land (Since she only wanted revenge on her lover for leaving her) or you bring the ghost's love to the Isle and he breaks the curse through true love's kiss.

 

In either case the Isle's curse is broken and the man dies (also I've yet to run into the Pesta again so she kills him and poofs in the 'bad end'), Keira's chain of events continues and you still get the Pellar's side mission.  

 

The illusion of choice however is a big flaw in a lot of games: DA and the Witcher both share this fault. 

 

DA and TW fans are so insecure around each other.

 

Yes, we are, oddly enough I'm liking them both on par even though I can see the glaring problems in both games. 

[dreamgazer]

Most of the TW fans I've talked to either enjoyed Inquisition or have no problems with those that do.  It's the same in reverse.

(gasp)

[wright1978]

Cut scenes don't make a story, and you get to hear out both Fairbanks and Clara before making your decisions.

 

A large portion of the missions in the Witcher 3, at least the ones I've done, grant the illusion of choice but the outcome is still the same. For example, helping Keira take care of the curse on Fyke Isle can have one of two outcomes: You either release the ghost outside of the isle thus allowing a pesta to wander the land (Since she only wanted revenge on her lover for leaving her) or you bring the ghost's love to the Isle and he breaks the curse through true love's kiss.

 

In either case the Isle's curse is broken and the man dies (also I've yet to run into the Pesta again so she kills him and poofs in the 'bad end'), Keira's chain of events continues and you still get the Pellar's side mission.  

 

The illusion of choice however is a big flaw in a lot of games: DA and the Witcher both share this fault. 

 

 

Yes, we are, oddly enough I'm liking them both on par even though I can see the glaring problems in both games. 

 

Don't recognise your description of TW3 quests as only providing the illusion of choice. I'm well into my second playthrough and the number of secondary quests with real choices is amazing. Even in the Keira quest you mention, the 2 choices have very different feels reconciling to lovers or helping a pesta get vengeance, even if they both result in the same result in dispersing the spirit. Even the illusion of choice can be a valuable roleplaying mechanic.

[Grieving Natashina]

Most games with a dialogue or story choice system is built on the illusion of choice.  No matter what we do, we'll always fit into a set number of specific outcomes.  I think the difference comes in how a player feels if that the illusion is well maintained.  For some, DA:I's illusion of choice broke down easier than TW3 does.  It's all the same really, it just depends upon your own experience.  There is very few games out there that allow for complete player agency, and BioWare hasn't done any of them.

[Saphiron123]

Most games with a dialogue or story choice system is built on the illusion of choice.  No matter what we do, we'll always fit into a set number of specific outcomes.  I think the difference comes in how a player feels if that the illusion is well maintained.  For some, DA:I's illusion of choice broke down easier than TW3 does.  It's all the same really, it just depends upon your own experience.  There is very few games out there that allow for complete player agency, and BioWare hasn't done any of them.

All I know is that the witcher has real choices. In TW2 I killed an actual king, and people in the next act keep talking about what how he would have given the country stability. I sides with Roche, and ended up in a completey different area... not only did TW2 not go the DAI route and cut out all the cities, it has hubs you can only access if you help certain groups, it's insane. There are tons of examples like this, talk to a sentient beat you're meant to hunt and find the killers of his mate, etc etc.

DAI gives me very few real choices, mages vs templars and who to leave behind, the rest is all pretty meaningless.

[AppalachianApex]

....Is this Kindergarten?

[Guitar-Hero]

....Is this Kindergarten?

Yes..... Now give me your lunch money

[Rawgrim]

Are you implying that if the baron hangs/does not hang will decide whether Geralt beats the wild hunt?

 

Nope. But making the right choices concerning Triss might have an impact.

[shepard0445]

Yes, Yes.

 

And every game is based on the tetris engine because it was one of the first games ever. 

Beside DA:I ist based on BF and Crisis with the Frostbite 3 engine.

[TheOgre]

Gimme the damn bottle

This thread gives my eyes blisters.

[Wolven_Soul]

Did you know that they originally used the Aurora engine to design and run the first Witcher title? Yes, the Aurora engine that Bioware designed for Neverwinter Nights. They did redesign parts of it to suit their needs but if you look through the RedEngine you can still find Aurora footprints through it, which means your 'awesome' game is founded on Bioware tech. So even when you're saying "The Witcher" is so much better you're still loving on something that has bits made by Bioware.............

No, I'm loving on something that's a better game.  Who the crap cares what engine they used in the first game?  Witcher 3 could have 16 bit graphics and I would still consider it the better game.

[Wolven_Soul]

Are we actually playing the same game? So far only one 'side quest' has had real meat to it. Even then it was a side-quest that is tied into the main story and has the option to be left unfinished if you choose to do so. Its also so far the only quest I've noticed that your actions change the outcome but its only slightly. In 'Family Matters' if you decide to allow the children to be sacrificed the mother is saved but her mind is broken, if you save the children she dies with one moment of clarity before death and the Baron kills himself. In both regards the Sargent still takes over as active leader and allows his troops to run rampant to rape and pillage as they please. Its really just a choice of which collateral damage are you willing to live with in the end. 

 

Its prettier and combat is substantially better, but you're also only dealing with one character against a mob instead of "squad" combat.

 

I'm having fun with TW3 but that's mainly because the world is far more immersive. The quests feel just as straight lined as the DA:I, in some regards moreso because they built Geralt with senses to the point where you don't really track anything. You click a single button, flip on his super senses and follow the glowing red trail of blank or look for the red lined object. 

 

I had just as much fun with DA:I because I enjoyed dealing with the people that I was allowed to interact with. I also enjoyed tooling out my gear with all sorts of add-ons and figuring out which ones worked for my current objective. I had a golf bag filled with two-handed weapons of various makes and models by the end of it. The world beyond the Inquisition was rather bland but I was okay with that because if all else failed I could go home and prod the people I hadn't spoken to in a while and see what new things they'd say. 

 

The environments of both games are aesthetically pleasing and the unique characters are just as equally interesting in my eyes. There are far more interesting things to kill in the Witcher but that's because its a game that's meant to have interesting nasty things to stick that Silver Sword into. 

 

I also do really like Gwent, I'd have like to have seen Wicked Grace in DA:I because there are no mini-games in DA:I at all. 

 

I give both games a thumbs up, but I'm not going to flat out say one is better than the other. 

 

Pretty much every single Witcher Contract is more interesting than any side content that DA:I has to offer, except for a few of the character quests.  Then there is Keira's missions, Triss's missions, the story line to help choose a new king in Skellige, Lambert's mission to track down an assassin, tracking down a serial killer, Yennefer's side mission, Radovid's assassination.  I could name more but by now I think most would get the point.  Most of these have multiple outcomes.  Even a few of the Witcher Contracts have multiple outcomes.  

 

Yeah, perhaps tracking with Witcher senses is a little more simple than I would have liked it to be, but I still found it enjoyable.  I like Geralt's running dialogue that he keeps up whenever he is tracking something down.  And as to something you said earlier, the only collectible is the gwent cards and there is a mini game for that.  I suppose one might be able to consider diagrams and recipes collectibles, but those have purposes to them unlike much of DA:I's.  

[Wolven_Soul]

It comes down to natural comparison. Those two being the biggest RPG titles to be released in the last 8 months.

 

It will probably start over gain when Fallout 4 comes out and people are going on about how it's better than both.  Which..well...it might be....

[TheOgre]

Remember that people can have opinions about a games worth. I don't like dai and it's side quest and I like tw's everything. Domiel doesn't like tw3. Arguing about who has better tastes at this point is moot.

Sorry you didn't like tw3 Domiel

[Wolven_Soul]

There are 3 types of side quests in TW3. The witcher contracts, which end in a mini-boss fight, the treasure hunts, which are all about loot, and the secondary quests, which are about telling a story, developing characters or making choices that will impact the world or the people you met along the way. Plus casual activities like Gwent, the horse races or the fistfights. And finally, exploration with random encounters. And that's on top of a lengthy main campaign.

 

Regardless of whether or not one likes mechanics like Witcher Sense that is mostly used in witcher contracts (and which I personally enjoyed more than pressing a button to ping my surroundings every few meters), I for one would love to see that variety in the side content of future BioWare games. 

To be fair there were other sorts of side quests.  Such as kill bandits at a camp, find a note and a key, then track down the treasure.  But there are still a lot more pointless side missions in DA:I.

[Wolven_Soul]

Who you choose as Divine (Leliana, Cassandra or Vivienne), Whether you've chosen Mages or Templars, Whether you chose to banish or join with the Wardens. 

 

Each of the Divine choices have quests that will decide if you want to help them further (because going on their quests will allow you insight into what kind of person you're putting in charge), you can only choose to help mages or templars and take their quest accordingly, and the Warden quest will have a different style of turn out depending on A.) Who you sacrifice in the fade and B.) how you handle the Wardens at the end of that mission, you also choose the fate of the Warden's second in command that may or may not appear in a DLC at a later date. 

 

The Templars can also be changed for the better or for the worse depending on how you've handled your friend, Cullen, during the course of the game. 

 

Yeah...great...now name 3 'side missions' that have choices and different outcomes.  Since that is the main theme of this discussion.  I can name more than three from TW3.

[correctamundo]

Nope. But making the right choices concerning Triss might have an impact.

 

Yep it might/will but those choices are "buried" in DAI as well. The Leliana thing is probably the one that starts up more angry threads on bsn. But there are plenty of other "real" choices.

[Saphiron123]

(gasp)

DAI had no substance, make no mistake everyone here LOVES dragon age, just many of us were disappointed by the shallow offering we got in inquisition. It was dragon age lite.

The witcher offered real substance in a similar setting and style, and that's why these threads exist... the two games are very similar, but dai was stripped down and empty.

[Saphiron123]

Yep it might/will but those choices are "buried" in DAI as well. The Leliana thing is probably the one that starts up more angry threads on bsn. But there are plenty of other "real" choices.

Not really, mages and templars, who to leave behind, cass or leliana for divine and that's just epilogue. 95% of the game is fetch quests and fluff, and none of that stuff has any impact on the story.

At least in the witcher, my decisions impact the world to a degree. In inquisition the world is completely almost separate from the story. The hissing wastes, though pretty, don't have a single npc in them and beating the venetori there has no effect on anything, for instance. That's an entire map without a single quest with cinematics, unique companion dialogue based on who you bring, or a larger impact on the main story.

What, an npc with an actual meaty quest was too much for them to implement? Where they too busy scattering 115 shards (which lead to an empty temple and a rehashed pride demon, very disappointing) across the world? 

[Domiel Angelus]

Yeah...great...now name 3 'side missions' that have choices and different outcomes.  Since that is the main theme of this discussion.  I can name more than three from TW3.

 

Noble Deeds, Noble Heart - You can either keep Fairbanks' lineage a secret or you can get him reinstated as a lord which may affect the world at a later date because that's one more noble in power that could have sway, or by keeping the people in the dark he keeps his Robin Hood-esque awesomeness going on. This is actually the end of an up to eight part quest chain, because you can also get the refugees he's harboring a better place to live in the process of all this. 

 

"The Battle of Iron Bull" - I can't remember the name of the quest at the time being but its the equivilant to a loyalty mission for Iron Bull.  You can either choose to sacrifice the Chargers to cement your alliance with the Qunari leaders and protect their dreadnought in which case Iron Bull becomes a bit more of a serious downer; or you choose to have Bull sound the horn of retreat, saving the Chargers and ruining any chance of having the Qunari join your side as well as having Iron Bull be marked forever as Tal-Vashoth. This will of course have further implications on how the Qun deals with the rest of the world in further games if they've done it properly. 

 

Call Me Imshael - At the end of your dealing with Suledin Keep you're given the option of parlay with Imshael of which he'll give you three "Fable-esque" options of reward or you can fight him. The rewards aren't really the issue its that if you choose to take one of his gifts then he'll slay Ser Michel de Chevin. Ser Michel, the former Champion of the Empress Celine I, is one of the most useful agents in all the game as he can be placed in any of the three War Table positions for his bonus. Also if you're doing Emprise Du Lion after dealing with the Orlesian court he'll have unique bits of dialogue about it, second part here is that if Gaspard, either solo or with Briala, is your choice in the Orlesian Court then Michel will be given a full pardon and a place in the honor guard, but still remain your agent for the Inquisition.

 

This quest also must be done in the right order for the best choice of rewards: If you don't talk to Michel before fighting Imshael then you forfeit the chance to acquire Michel as an agent and he can never be redeemed in the eyes of the Empress or Emperor; the flipside is that he also does not get killed because he isn't there to be slain. 

 

Side Note: Also if you've done Wicked Hearts and Wicked Eyes before dealing with anyone in the Exalted Plains they have unique dialogue depending on who you chose to seat in the chair of Emperor/Empress.

 

Not really, mages and templars, who to leave behind, cass or leliana for divine and that's just epilogue. 95% of the game is fetch quests and fluff, and none of that stuff has any impact on the story.

At least in the witcher, my decisions impact the world to a degree. In inquisition the world is completely almost separate from the story. The hissing wastes, though pretty, don't have a single npc in them and beating the venetori there has no effect on anything, for instance. That's an entire map without a single quest with cinematics, unique companion dialogue based on who you bring, or a larger impact on the main story.

What, an npc with an actual meaty quest was too much for them to implement? Where they too busy scattering 115 shards (which lead to an empty temple and a rehashed pride demon, very disappointing) across the world? 

 

 1. You're missing someone on your list for Divine options. Vivienne may so be made Divine.

 2. Where's the part where you decided whether or not to banish or 'redeem' the Wardens?

 3. Depending on your choice of conscripting or taking either Mages or Templars on as free agents, that last bit of epilogue changes as well as the talk you'd have with their leader within Skyhold. 

 4. We're not seeing the impact now just like we only saw bits and pieces of the impact in the world of DA 2, we're also not done with DA:I as I sense the magic of DLC will change so very much. 

 5. Cinematics don't make a quest and I've taken people through all parts of the world in various batches. The Hissing Wastes has a bit with Dorian and Sera, its also the best place for Sera to poke fun at Cassandra about her feelings for the Inquisitor. Side Note:The Hissing Wastes also has one of my personal favorite Easter Eggs in the form of the Shield, Key and Candle on the empty Merchant Stands table. 

 6. All of those fetch quests will come back to bite you in the ass somewhere, just like dealing with Conrad Verner in ME3 and all of those collectibles in ME1 come back on you if you did or didn't get them. 

[shepard0445]

 

 4. We're not seeing the impact now just like we only saw bits and pieces of the impact in the world of DA 2, we're also not done with DA:I as I sense the magic of DLC will change so very much. 

I don´t pay 60 euros to get bits of a story and get the next bits for 15 in DLC or another 60 in the next game. Yes the DLC after DA:A were a real breath catcher. Worth every cent.

[Rawgrim]

Yep it might/will but those choices are "buried" in DAI as well. The Leliana thing is probably the one that starts up more angry threads on bsn. But there are plenty of other "real" choices.

 

Never saw any. Where are they?

[hoechlbear]

 5. Cinematics don't make a quest 

 

That's your opinion though. To me it can definitely make a fetch quest not feel like a damn chore. If at least half of the quests in DAI had cutscenes and some actual dialogue options, it would make a huge difference. For one I could actually see the NPCs faces and get some genuine reactions from them, instead of seeing everything from a distance and having to look at these soulless statues with blank expressions on their faces doing weird gestures when they talk (like the stupid merchant gestures). Without cutscenes everything is rather forgettable and impersonal.

 

 

 6. All of those fetch quests will come back to bite you in the ass somewhere

 

Erm, I only played the game once when it came out but I honestly can't remember a single fetch quest in DAI to have some actual impact on anything. Maybe I missed something. I mean, if I don't give ram meat to the refugees they won't die and people won't hate me, I can pick up the 100 notes from the ground/dead bodies and nothing will happen, so I'm genuinely confused now. I don't play ME so I have no idea what you said, but I'm not sure why you gave examples from ME when we're talking about DAI.