2503 réponses à ce sujet

[SolNebula]

I know it's not fair nor realistic but player-sexual characters are the best compromise. We can romance the person we want the way we want. I just don't want to start over a debate on how much is realistic or not. I don't care tbh, I want everyone to have his/her romance of choice and be done with the butthurt of people not getting what they want (like I was in DA:I). In real life it is a problem but here is a game so dear BW make it happen.

[SubjectZer0]

FemShep/Tali got scrapped too.

I do appreciate having the options to choose but I just dislike that in Mass Effect, they really thought people would only be interested in playing FemShep if she's a default bisexual with a larger preferences for women than men. Even a gay BroShep would spend 2/3 of the trilogy at the receiving end of female attention until the third game....unless you count Conrad Verner... why can't we romance Conrad anyway?

Really?? Never knew about Tali and FemShep omg and that was removed too? That's soo disappointing wow! I love Bioware and they are so far ahead of other companies in the gaming community in a lot of ways (seeing Dorian talk about his father wanting to change him is the first time I've ever seen homophobia addressed in a video game EVER) but wow WHY was the option to romance these people in a same sex relationship removed? So aggravating.

A few years ago Casey Hudson said something about LGBT relationships being more explicit than straight relationships in an interview where he was asked about the lack of same sex relationships in Mass Effect 2 and he said that if Mass Effect was a movie, they would want to stick to a pg 13 rating so that's why they "make certain decisions"...idfk, makes no sense. But I guess they removed those options because they didn't want controversy. Whatever. So happy Casey is gone and now I hope Andromeda doesn't make any of the same mistakes.

[Wittand25]

ME3 was rather fair (as stand alone game) to the four man groups (gay/straight men and gay/women).

A male Shepard without prior romance had two women (Liara and Ashley) and two men (Steve and Kaidan). A female Shepard had two women (Liara and Samantha) and one man (Kaidan).

So other than females lacked a new exclusive male option (and imported romances being treated worse than for male Shepard) the distribution of love interest was pretty fair.

 

So I think sticking with having both one straight, one bi and one homosexual man and woman available to give everybody the same amount of choice.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Really?? Never knew about Tali and FemShep omg and that was removed too? That's soo disappointing wow! I love Bioware and they are so far ahead of other companies in the gaming community in a lot of ways (seeing Dorian talk about his father wanting to change him is the first time I've ever seen homophobia addressed in a video game EVER) but wow WHY was the option to romance these people in a same sex relationship removed? So aggravating.

A few years ago Casey Hudson said something about LGBT relationships being more explicit than straight relationships in an interview where he was asked about the lack of same sex relationships in Mass Effect 2 and he said that if Mass Effect was a movie, they would want to stick to a pg 13 rating so that's why they "make certain decisions"...idfk, makes no sense. But I guess they removed those options because they didn't want controversy. Whatever. So happy Casey is gone and now I hope Andromeda doesn't make any of the same mistakes.

 

There's been cut content found for all the ME2 LI's being bisexual at some point with the exception of Jacob. But that's Jacob and people probably weren't looking very hard. So between that and ME1, it looks like Bioware was flirting with DA2's universal bisexual LIs for a while.

 

I'm not that upset because Kaidan would still be my first choice for my male Shepard, but FemShep/Miranda would have been amazing.

[Aren]

Bsn primary concern about the new game,romances.

How very unexpected....

Sorry but i do not wish that  Andromeda will become a second dating simulator like Inquisition was  (8 romances..).

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Multiplayer and single player are on separate budgets.  Feel free to look that up, because BioWare has said as such.  

 

But if they cut the enormous amount of money from the SP budget that they must have to spend on designing romance options, they could transfer it to the MP budget. How is this not obvious?

[Grieving Natashina]

But if they cut the enormous amount of money from the SP budget that they must have to spend on designing romance options, they could transfer it to the MP budget. How is this not obvious?

Because game development doesn't work that way.  You can go look it up if you don't believe me.   By the way, they don't have a separate budget for the romances.  It isn't as "enormous" as you might think.  It's apart of the single player word and animation budget.  

 

Look, even if they cut out all romances, that would go into the single player game.  The fact is that, while I'm sure a lot of folks do enjoy the MP, that isn't the primary focus nor selling point of a BioWare game.  Never has been, and will unlikely ever be so.  Any part of the word and animation budget that's current being used for romances would be used for things like dialogue in the story and quests, possible cut scenes and better animation for any Paragon/Renegade type interrupts that the series might use.  

 

I'd recommend doing some research if you're really curious about why you idea is offbase.  For an easy place to start, check out the show Extra Credits on youtube or at their site.  It really goes into much better detail into various aspects of game development and game mechanics.  Also, there is a lot of articles and interviews floating about the net that also talk about this further.  

[The Elder King]

But if they cut the enormous amount of money from the SP budget that they must have to spend on designing romance options, they could transfer it to the MP budget. How is this not obvious?

Not really. They'd use it for the SP.

[Panda]

But if they cut the enormous amount of money from the SP budget that they must have to spend on designing romance options, they could transfer it to the MP budget. How is this not obvious?

 

I don't think this would be taken well. Lot of players are buying ME for single game and story, I don't think MP to compared is that popular. If it would increase budget for SP I'd want them to cut MP off completely, but since it's seperate budjet no chance in that.

[Grieving Natashina]

There wasn't much for most romances in ME3 anyways. I don't see a large use of budget there.

 

Until the Citadel DLC at least, but people paid extra for it.

The DLC also wasn't just for romances.  There was the Clone mission, of course, and a whole bunch of friendship content.  There was more time hanging out with the squad mate as people than there was spent on the romance section of it.  I thought it was neat that each squad mate that was alive got their own meetup, regardless of LI status.  

[Milana]

No-one is forcing bisexuality upon characters. They are created and are bisexual. If you mean devs stop and think when creating a character, "Could this character be gay or bi?" then that is a good thing and in no way revolting. It's this thinking which prevents minorities being completely absent in any fictional media. If you don't like the word, don't use it.

 

 

Ever heard of standing up for the little guy? If we only cared about those in society that fit the largest demographic, the world would be a pretty shitty place to live for those who don't fit the mold... oh wait it is a shitty place for those people. Even if you're (or rather "one" is) not a caring person, rationally, you should see the value of treating all humans equally even if it does not make sense numerically.

 

 

Why the hell not? This is fiction. It isn't even that unbelievable that there should be more LGBT characters on SSV Andromeda than you're used to seeing in your everyday life. If I made a crew of people I know that work hard and I have a good relationship with, there would probably be more gay crew than straight. It's just a matter of circumstances; it isn't so fantastical that it could skew the other way. And we're not even talking about that we're talking about 50% of the tiny percentage of the crew that is available to romance.

 

 

I don't think you're an outlaw and I genuinely am sorry if you feel attacked because you are at least trying to be reasonable unlike some of the other morons in this thread but your whole scientific, by-the-numbers approach to inclusion has resulted in the systematic exclusion of people like me in video games for 40 years. If you feel I've been personally attacking you it's because this is a personal issue for me and it makes me angry and exhausted. A Bioware game that *may* represent disproportionately LGBT characters has little effect on you as a gamer but it means everything to me. To see any argument that tries to devalue this or dismiss it completely makes me... ugh I don't know... angry, sad, defeated and then angry again. 

I couldnt word it better   And ofc im out of likes

[what]

I think they should go for 2 straight, 2 bisexual and 2 gay/lesbian. If the leak from a few months ago was true then there are 7 squadmates, but it seems unrealistic that they would have all squadmates (except for 1) romanceable so I could see them having maybe 2 of the romances as NPC characters(on your ship, e.g. the pilot) and then 4 romances are squadmates (out of the 7 total squadmates). 

 

That seems like it would be most fair. 

[BraveVesperia]

A 2/2/2 split is perfect imo.

Spoiler

If it's not clear, that translates to 1 straight woman, 1 straight man, 1 bi woman, 1 bi man, 1 lesbian, 1 gay man.

Everyone gets an equal choice.

 

I don't think that saying "but there are much fewer women/gay men playing than straight men!" is a good argument for an unequal split. The game doesn't force you to play the same gender or orientation as yourself. Right now, I'm playing a maleShep and romancing Ashley, and playing a male Inquisitor romancing Dorian, and I'm a bi woman. My brother is a pretty standard "straight dude-bro" stereotype, and his romance in ME3 was Steve Cortez! 

 

Edit: As a sidenote, I think saying that lesbians got a great deal in ME is a stretch.

[Kmaru]

The question is what is the futur of modern relationship?

Hundred of years ago or even a half decades ago, people would not have lived together without being married. People are more free with their sexuality and relationship nowadays. It will be wrong establishing boundaries where we don't need one.

Plus we are not force to have those relationship at all.

 

DAO = It was surprising and fine.

DAII = Probably the best

DAInquisition = OMG if we translate what was in there in a dating website it will be for example in Solas case : I only date black girls. or I only date white blonde female. The message sent was completly wrong, even if it fit the reality of the world.

 

In Mass Effect 3 it was near perfect.

 

To me u have to be able to get in the heart of the people u love.

But having also options like Diana Allers, (discret relationshipship) sex only.

Another thing it will be nice if u can date some one outside the crew members if the storyline allows it.

 

For exemple in Inquisition u could ask Josephine to find the perfect match for u and having a nice ceremony in the castle. Specially if some Alliance are needed and are only possible that way.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The DLC also wasn't just for romances.  There was the Clone mission, of course, and a whole bunch of friendship content.  There was more time hanging out with the squad mate as people than there was spent on the romance section of it.  I thought it was neat that each squad mate that was alive got their own meetup, regardless of LI status.  

I wish we could have had events with other prominent members of the crew though, like Dr. Chakwas, Dr. Michel, Kelly Chambers, Gabby and Ken, Adams, etc. 

[KR96]

 

  No-one is forcing bisexuality upon characters. They are created and are bisexual. If you mean devs stop and think when creating a character, "Could this character be gay or bi?" then that is a good thing and in no way revolting. It's this thinking which prevents minorities being completely absent in any fictional media. If you don't like the word, don't use it.

 

 

 

  

 

But that is what I meant, if a character is inherently bi or gay, then that's fine. What I meant to say is that I don't see the value of creating a character and then put a stamp gay or bi on it, because that would mean it can be romanced by a certain group of people. I know that there should not be a justification whatsoever for anyone being gay or bi, and I understand minorities want to be included in massive games such as these, but that should not inherently mean that there have to be at least 4 people which tick off the boxes gay or bi. Again, we can agree to disagree here, but that won't change my sentiment too much. 

 

 

      

 

Ever heard of standing up for the little guy? If we only cared about those in society that fit the largest demographic, the world would be a pretty shitty place to live for those who don't fit the mold... oh wait it is a shitty place for those people. Even if you're (or rather "one" is) not a caring person, rationally, you should see the value of treating all humans equally even if it does not make sense numerically.

 

 

 

No, I'm not a caring person in that respect. I've grown up in a country (The Netherlands) which in my opinion has always catered to the need of basically anyone, whether they be gay, straight, lesbian or followers of the cult of Cthulhu, and I have never felt the need to rise up for these minorities in any way. If people like you and Dave can use their voices, why should the rest not do so? Again, in this case it is your opinion clashing with mine, which is completely fine, but we both apparantly have very different backgrounds in this respect, likely influencing our opinions.

 

 

 

       

 

Why the hell not? This is fiction. It isn't even that unbelievable that there should be more LGBT characters on SSV Andromeda than you're used to seeing in your everyday life. If I made a crew of people I know that work hard and I have a good relationship with, there would probably be more gay crew than straight. It's just a matter of circumstances; it isn't so fantastical that it could skew the other way. And we're not even talking about that we're talking about 50% of the tiny percentage of the crew that is available to romance.

 

 

Again, I understand that this is a work of fiction, but there is still a certain degree of logic and demographics which in my opinion should not be disregarded. If we're truly going to be colonizing a whole new galaxy, how big are the odds that there will be a mass of LGBT characters which have been selected to repopulate this galaxy? I appreciate your sentiment in regard to the fact that it is possible that there could be some skewness in regard to this logic, but it is a sentiment which I don't share and find unlikely. Still, everyone is entitled to their opinions, hopes, dreams, and ideas. 

 

 

      

 

I don't think you're an outlaw and I genuinely am sorry if you feel attacked because you are at least trying to be reasonable unlike some of the other morons in this thread but your whole scientific, by-the-numbers approach to inclusion has resulted in the systematic exclusion of people like me in video games for 40 years. If you feel I've been personally attacking you it's because this is a personal issue for me and it makes me angry and exhausted. A Bioware game that *may* represent disproportionately LGBT characters has little effect on you as a gamer but it means everything to me. To see any argument that tries to devalue this or dismiss it completely makes me... ugh I don't know... angry, sad, defeated and then angry again. 

 

 

Thanks. I understand issues like these get personal pretty fast, and I appreciate you trying to engage in a progressive discussion. Like you mentioned, this will have little to no affect on my style of play, like I mentioned I couldn't even care less if my character didn't romance anyone in the game at all, I only stated my base opinion on the subject in a pretty early stage and ended up desperately attempting to defend it under a wave of criticism. Criticism which was fair, mind you, but which still doesn't make me change my opinion, as I'm sure my statements won't influence yours, even though I am always glad to read others' opinions on these type of topics. 

   

[daveliam]

@KR96

 

How many LGBT characters do you think people are talking about?  To do the 2/2/2 approach, there only needs to be 4 LGBT characters total.  Out of an entire crew of characters.  There could easily be 80-100 people on the ship (look at all of the random NPCs on the Normandy).  4 LGBT characters out of that many people fits even the conservative estimates of real world demographics.  So the 'realism' argument doesn't hold any weight (even if the game needed to have 'realistic' real world demographics to begin with, which it doesn't).  Plus, don't forget that the bisexual female option will likely be a sexy blue alien lady, who doesn't really need to adhere to real world demographics because she's, you know, an alien.

 

That's the part that I'm finding frustrating.  Asking for 4 LGBT characters in the game is being treated as if it's 'shoving the agenda down people's throats', when that's barely any content at all.  It's not anyone is asking for most of the characters to be LGBT, just enough for everyone to get 2 choices.  It's akin to the people who clutched their pearls and complained about 'how much gay content was in DA: I', when in reality, there's about 1 hour of LGBT content (most of it optional) in a game with over 100 hours of content.  That's less than 1% of the game content, yet people still complained about it.  It makes me question whether it's actually 'realism' that's the concern at all.  Especially when these same people don't pull out the 'realism' argument when it comes to romancing aliens.  It sends the message that romancing (and having sex with) a different species is okay.  But having 2 human men who are into guys on a ship of 100 people just breaks the 'realism' factor too much.  Do you see how that comes across?

[Seishoujyo]

ME3 wasn't fair for females, DAI wasn't fair at all for males.

 

Just do the same amount of romances for m/f and it will be fine. 2 straight for fem and 2 straight for men, add 2 bi and it will be fine.

[Char]

Some of these comments on here are confusing me. Surely NuShep and their crew aren't going to be the ones colonising the new planets. This is Mass Effect, not The Sims in Space. Exploring, leading, diplomacy, gratuitous killing- they aren't the jobs of your breeding stock regardless of the fact that people seem to have no problem with future humans having intergalactic travel but can't comprehend the idea of non-traditional methods of growing new humans.

Sexual orientation does not effect one's ability to explore, lead, kill or be a diplomat. Therefore how about we just assume that whoever ends up on NuShep's team are there on merit regardless of orientation instead of trotting out rubbish that suggests that gay/bi people are automatically shoehorned, whereas straight characters must be plot integral.

I also don't really understand the people who argue against the inclusion of any romantic subplots. For me they add an extra layer of depth to the character. I don't speak for everyone but I'd be pretty puzzled if my charismatic, customised, arse-kicking spacelady couldn't enter into a relationship during her life.

[Catastrophy]

I can have romance in RL - in a game I'd like to headbutt stuff or dodge like Asari.

[The Elder King]

ME3 wasn't fair for females, DAI wasn't fair at all for males.
 
Just do the same amount of romances for m/f and it will be fine. 2 straight for fem and 2 straight for men, add 2 bi and it will be fine.

Why it wasn't fair 'at all' for males? Even without considering the other LI, I liked both Cassandra and Josephine.
And no, I don't think your proposal is fine.

[daveliam]

It's almost comical how, in the name of 'fairness', the suggestion to add "two options for straight guys, two options for straight women, and 2 bisexual characters" is a serious suggestion.  You realize that your 'fair' suggestion means that straight guys and gals get three options and gay guys and gals get one option.  All in the name of 'fairness', right? 

 

Let me guess your counterpoint:  "Well, there are more straight people so it's a fair distribution to me.  Forget that this means that I'm effectively removing choice for entire groups of people, I like the idea of having three options all for me so that's 'fair' as far as I'm concerned."  Was I right?