2503 réponses à ce sujet

[alienatedflea]

They didn't ruin Kaidan and Anders by making them bi, they just expanded on their characters and you didn't like it because you obviously have some issue with people who are not straight. What if one of your friends came out to you tomorrow and you previously had no idea? Would he be ruined?

 

As for appeasing the "dumb masses", which are we? A vocal minority that deserves fewer options than you or the dumb masses? If we're the masses, shouldn't our voices be heard?

 

DaveLiam is asking for a choice. He's not even asking for as much choice as you will inevitably get. That's too much for you though.

 

A game can be both awesome and diverse. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Though I understand why you don't want it in your game or even to be talking about it with me now; because you have always had everything catered to YOU and you like it that way.

 

Well tough sh-t.

so wait...you can say that to the straight gamer base, but you are insensitive to say the same thing to the LGBT gamers? 

[HusarX]

As long as we have shitty pg13 sex scenes it doesn't matter.

[Killdren88]

As long as we have shitty pg13 sex scenes it doesn't matter.

 

Because that's all people care about in these games...remember the rage when there was none to be had with Josie? HaH!

[daveliam]

But when Anders was the wise @ss/joker equivalent in Dragon Age Awakenings, but in DA2 he wasn't that at all.  He was a crybaby and a very emotional mess.  Exact opposite of what his character was in DA:A.  

 

Kaidan was a manly man in Mass Effect 1.  Now that doesnt mean gays/bis cannot be manly.  But yet again, in ME3, he was emotional little girl for most of ME3. 

 

My point is that I don't care about a character's sexual preferences but I do care that you fundamentally change the characters' personality by making them gay is wrong.

 

1.)  You are conflating two issues:  sexuality and personality.  Anders' personality change had nothing to do with his sexuality and everything to do with the fact that he was possessed by the spirit of Justice which fundamentally changed his personality, pushing him down this dark path towards Vengeance.  He was supposed to be different.  That was the entire point.  Kaidan was still manly man in ME3.  In fact, outside of being open about his interest in men, his character was the exact same emotional, yet manly character that he was for the entire trilogy. 

 

2.)  Neither Anders nor Kaidan were ever made gay. 

 

3.)  You sure as hell seem to care a great deal about character's sexual preferences, despite what you claim.  You what I don't care about?  The Mako or whatever else other vehicle we get for exploration.  You know how you can tell that I don't care about it?  Because I don't ever talk about it and I certainly don't hang out in the threads about it debating it.  Why?  Because I genuinely don't care about it. 

[Milana]

so since its not explicit...that means a character could be gay? lol minus well put for example, Steve Cortez should have a title over his head in every scene saying "Gay LI" >.< really? Heck no.  Just because a character doesnt explicitly state their orientation...doesn't mean they are straight or gay or whatever.  I get that.  

 

But when Anders was the wise @ss/joker equivalent in Dragon Age Awakenings, but in DA2 he wasn't that at all.  He was a crybaby and a very emotional mess.  Exact opposite of what his character was in DA:A.  

 

Kaidan was a manly man in Mass Effect 1.  Now that doesnt mean gays/bis cannot be manly.  But yet again, in ME3, he was emotional little girl for most of ME3. 

 

My point is that I don't care about a character's sexual preferences but I do care that you fundamentally change the characters' personality by making them gay is wrong.

 

Another point against romance is that it limits content.  I didn't romance Cortez but I was interested in his backstory.  I dont want to romance someone to learn more about a character. Sex is sex.  Don't hide content behind doing the dirty deed is another thing I ask.

 

Sigh. As if you didnt read anything that i said.

 

Anders got through a lot while being a Grey warden,and later helping all those refugees in DA2, not counting killing his own lover for good. Of course he lost his all the time jokey attitude( though he did joke sometimes, sry u missed it). and yep forgot to add the whole "being possessed by a spirit" thing.

 

And Kaidan being "emotional cry baby"? Didnt really see it, but whatever, maybe war did it to him, not his sexuality? no?

 

Though it seemed you were trying to be logical, not rude, i think you failed, since comparing being emotional to being gay. And im not even starting with "emotional little girl".

[Vapaa]

Another point against romance is that it limits content.  I didn't romance Cortez but I was interested in his backstory.  I dont want to romance someone to learn more about a character. Sex is sex.  Don't hide content behind doing the dirty deed is another thing I ask.

 

You're making a point about romance limiting content, and then talk about Steve, the very definition of friendship content separated from romance content ?

[Grieving Natashina]

Anders personality change had zero to do with his sexuality.  It did have a lot more to do with his merging of Justice, as well as the events of DA2.  David Gaider first wrote the character and he intended him to be bisexual.  I can dig up the archive from his blog where he states this outright.  If you're going to talk about characters, do a little research first.  It wouldn't kill you to stop spouting this insane stereotypes.

 

Kaidan was overly emotional?  Really?  Can you name more than a few times?  He was an emotional little girl...when?  When he, just like Ash, was angsting over Shepard having worked for Cereberus?  When he, just like Ash, talks about how hard thing are  Ash has a big scene where she's with her sister, crying over the loss of her brother-in-law.  Kaidan has no equal scene where he's crying and weeping like that.  You go out to dinner, no matter if you're the LI or not.  Far cry from "emotional little girl."

 

Also, romance limits the content exactly how?  Steve's story was about moving on from grief in the face of war.  His romance status would have not changed that.  His sexuality would not have changed that either.  The writers decided to take that archetype and make it for a gay man.  He's also by far not the first LI in a BioWare game to grieve over a dead spouse and won't be the last.

 

You might want to stop, take a breath and do some homework.  As it is, you're coming across like you're intentionally ignorant about character writing, BioWare's characters themselves and the LGBT community as a whole.  If you can't handle a character even talking about a same sex relationship, you're playing the wrong series of games by the wrong company.  

[daveliam]

What? 2/2/2? That's not fair! We need at least 2/4/2 for reparations of being oppressed over the years.

 

Show me anyone who has said this besides you.  Anyone.  Anyone at all.  Go ahead.  We'll all be waiting here with baited breath for your return.

 

so wait...you can say that to the straight gamer base, but you are insensitive to say the same thing to the LGBT gamers? 

 

I actually agree with you on this.  It's equally not cool to tell the straight game base "tough ****".

[LPPrince]

"Playersexual" came about because all the options in DA2 were bisexual and DA2 let you play as either a man or a woman.

 

Romances aren't playersexual if a game has solely a male lead and his only options are women.

 

Romances aren't playersexual if a game has an option for a male or female lead but multiple sexualities in partners are explored.

 

Romances are playersexual when we can play as man or woman yet it doesn't change who we get to romance as all are available to us no matter what.

 

I hate that.

 

I hated it then, I still hate it now. I argued the point back then that I still hold to this day;its better to showcase heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and other sexual preferences instead of making every option bisexual solely for the players benefit. Thats cheap.

 

A player who's character isn't to the fancy of that NPC shouldn't be able to find a way to woo them just because the player wants to. The player should be encouraged to play a character that the NPC would be interested in being in a relationship with.

 

In some cases, that means playing a male character. In others, female. Sometimes, a paragon of virtue. In others, a renegade *expletive*.

 

There's always some room for realism in fantasy. And in reality, I can't just date any girl I fancy;some won't be interested in me, whether its because of my appearance, my morals, their sexuality, or any other number of factors. In game romance should reflect this as romance is a very real thing. Romance is raw. And when you have potential romantic partners given a certain sexuality for the sake of the player, that makes it both artificial and weak.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition handled it perfectly. Characters were who they were, they had their tastes, they had their preferences, you got to romance them if you happened to play a character that they might be interested in, otherwise you didn't.

 

I'd rather work for it instead of having it handed on a silver platter.

[mrjack]

so wait...you can say that to the straight gamer base, but you are insensitive to say the same thing to the LGBT gamers? 

 

I can say it to straight players that complain about a game being inclusive despite always, every time having the most amount of choice when it comes to romance in Bioware games and who are exclusively catered to in literally every other game with any sort of romance plot.

[Master Race]

Just give my character a hot alien broad worthy of Fox News coverage and i don't care what else happens.

 

 

[mrjack]

I actually agree with you on this.  It's equally not cool to tell the straight game base "tough ****".

 

That comment wasn't directed at straight players. Thankfully straight players who are open-minded, tolerant and accepting make up the majority. This guy isn't one of them unfortunately.

 

ETA: I pulled an all-nighter and should've been in bed hours ago. I need sleep so you'll not hear a peep out of me today/tonight/whatever...

[Lady Luminous]

Show me anyone who has said this besides you.  Anyone.  Anyone at all.  Go ahead.  We'll all be waiting here with baited breath for your return.

 

 

Oh, I read that as sarcasm and chuckled, were they actually being serious?

[Jaulen]

 

In some cases, that means playing a male character. In others, female. Sometimes, a paragon of virtue. In others, a renegade *expletive*.

 

There's always some room for realism in fantasy. And in reality, I can't just date any girl I fancy;some won't be interested in me, whether its because of my appearance, my morals, their sexuality, or any other number of factors. In game romance should reflect this as romance is a very real thing. Romance is raw. And when you have potential romantic partners given a certain sexuality for the sake of the player, that makes it both artificial and weak.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition handled it perfectly. Characters were who they were, they had their tastes, they had their preferences, you got to romance them if you happened to play a character that they might be interested in, otherwise you didn't.

 

I'd rather work for it instead of having it handed on a silver platter.

 

 

I dont usually play as a male character if I have the chance of playing female.

 

I played in DAO to get the Morrigan and Leliana achievements.....but it was kinda meh to me.

Played a guy in DA2 to try the male-side romance, didn't really see a difference.

Played a guy in DAI as my second character (usually it's not until like character 10 or so)......and romanced Cass......I LOVED playing as my Qundude. In fact, so far its the character I identify the most with so far......

 

Haven't really played a guy in ME.....I mean...Garrus....why would I ever pass him up? (did once for Leliana and...ergh.)

(all I know of the m-f romances in ME is watching the hubs play or Youtube.)

 

I like the idea of the companions having their preference......I enjoyed the having to go outside of my comfort zone and finding something really fun.. And if in ME:A Bioware can get me to play a guy and have the same reaction to my male character as I did in DA:I.....I'm all for it!

[alienatedflea]

1.)  You are conflating two issues:  sexuality and personality.  Anders' personality change had nothing to do with his sexuality and everything to do with the fact that he was possessed by the spirit of Justice which fundamentally changed his personality, pushing him down this dark path towards Vengeance.  He was supposed to be different.  That was the entire point.  Kaidan was still manly man in ME3.  In fact, outside of being open about his interest in men, his character was the exact same emotional, yet manly character that he was for the entire trilogy. 

 

2.)  Neither Anders nor Kaidan were ever made gay. 

 

3.)  You sure as hell seem to care a great deal about character's sexual preferences, despite what you claim.  You what I don't care about?  The Mako or whatever else other vehicle we get for exploration.  You know how you can tell that I don't care about it?  Because I don't ever talk about it and I certainly don't hang out in the threads about it debating it.  Why?  Because I genuinely don't care about it. 

Well I think I am going to have to agree to disagree with you.  Anders/Kaidan changed fundamentally from our first interaction to later in the game and I guess it must be a coincidence that those changes in their personality and changes in their sexuality that only I noticed.  I think not.  Clearly the only reason why I am forced to care about a character's sexual preferences is that there is character development hidden if you do not romance said character.  Why hide this that way? Why force romance in order to more fully understand the character's motivations?  Please answer that for me, you guys/gals.

 

I don't get title of this thread....romances "more fair" which really means more gay/bi options while keeping the straight options the same...so I wonder how many more is enough?  4 gay/bi options? 5?

 

I just know that appeasement never satisfies the person or the people being appeased.  Its almost always never enough.

[SardaukarElite]

So, I've see we've hit the "LGBT content is politically correct" segment of the routine. 

 

Drink!

[Grieving Natashina]

Drink!

I'll pass.  I do enough of Drinking Bingo in the DA forums.  You're free to have mine though.  

[Killdren88]

Oh, I read that as sarcasm and chuckled, were they actually being serious?

 

This thread isn't worth getting serious over.

[SardaukarElite]

I don't get title of this thread....romances "more fair" which really means more gay/bi options while keeping the straight options the same...so I wonder how many more is enough?  4 gay/bi options? 5?

 

I'm pretty sure two is the actual minimum number being asked for.

[daveliam]

Well I think I am going to have to agree to disagree with you.  Anders/Kaidan changed fundamentally from our first interaction to later in the game and I guess it must be a coincidence that those changes in their personality and changes in their sexuality that only I noticed.  I think not.  Clearly the only reason why I am forced to care about a character's sexual preferences is that there is character development hidden if you do not romance said character.  Why hide this that way? Why force romance in order to more fully understand the character's motivations?  Please answer that for me, you guys/gals.

 

I don't get title of this thread....romances "more fair" which really means more gay/bi options while keeping the straight options the same...so I wonder how many more is enough?  4 gay/bi options? 5?

 

I just know that appeasement never satisfies the person or the people being appeased.  Its almost always never enough.

 

Again, you are bringing up an issue that is completely unrelated.  No one here is saying that we want content locked behind the romance.  Where are you coming up with this? 

 

Also, how exactly does having Anders and Kaidan being bisexual have anything to do with content being locked behind the romances?  That happened regardless of their sexuality.  So why are you making the connection to this?  What's your argument?  Now that Kaidan is bisexual you are forced to romance him as a man in order to access the content?  Why not just romance him as a woman still?  Or, if you aren't going to access the content, who cares if he's straight or bisexual.  Your argument literally doesn't make logical sense.

 

Finally, YES, the changes in their personality and the change in sexuality was NOT RELATED.  If you genuinely think that the writers thought "Well, now Anders is openly bisexual, so I need to make sure that his personality is different", then I don't know what to tell you.  I don't think you understand how the process works.  I really don't. 

 

I'm pretty sure two is the actual minimum number being asked for.

 

If only a dozen posters had written this already, he might be able to pick up the hint.......

[OhNoWhyHow]

I don't care what they do for the most part as long as there are alien LIs, though I will say it's about time there was a gay malien as literally everybody but gay men have had a chance to romance an alien up to this point. 

[Snorka]

Character creation 

 

 

Question; what is your gender?

 

You have selected male

You have selected female

 

Question; what is your sexual orientation, straight or gay?

 

You have selected straight, gay dialog options have been disabled.

You have selected gay, straight dialog options have been disabled.

 

play the way you feel comfortable.

 

The beauty of this system is the developers can double up characters, A straight female's romance, lets call him Mars, has a deep romance dialog that can be re-used if a player chooses a male gay option etc etc

 

In regards to how many romances? i like love triangles so 2 female and 2 male options regardless of your sexuality, of course due to your decision on your sexuality in reality you will only have the 2 romance options per play through.  

 

Now straight people can compliment a same sex character in game without having to worry about accidentally starting a gay relationship. While gay people although a minority get to experience the game the same way as the rest of us.    

[LPPrince]

Character creation 

 

Question; what is your sexual orientation, straight or gay?

 

You have selected straight, gay dialog options have been disabled.

You have selected gay, straight dialog options have been disabled.

 

play the way you feel comfortable.

 

That is never going to happen and thank goodness for that.

[Snorka]

That is never going to happen and thank goodness for that.

why on earth not?

[Saphean71]

My fSheps romance Garrus 99.9% of the time because there aren't any other ME:2 romance options that carry over to ME:3 if fShep is straight. Also I think Garrus is f**king hot!!. In DA, I much preferred the romances in DA:I over the others. There was a better choice, though perhaps some of the characters could have done with a bit more personality and they weren't all bi (something I really detested about DA:2). What I'd like to see in ME:A is a good mix of orientations again and the LI's - whether they are straight, gay, bi, lesbian, trans or whatever - staying as what they are. I also liked the idea in DA:I that you didn't need to pander to your LI's every whim or go against everything they believed in just to get a romance with them. The loss of the 'friendship/rivalry' bar was not a big disappointment.

P.S. I apologise if people find the comment I made about DA:2 characters all being bi offensive. It isn't supposed to be.