2503 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

MY LOINS AND I WILL SEE YOU....IN THE FUTURE

 

I'm resisting the urge to post that clip from Space Balls that would be totally appropriate right now.

[FemShem]

It was controversial, there were numbers on both side of the divide. Everything was amplified by the DA2 dissatisfaction and hence why threw pretty much every aspect of DA2 out in their stampede to be like Origins, no matter if the approach was good or not.

Fair point.

[FemShem]

I'm resisting the urge to post that clip from Space Balls that would be totally appropriate right now.

Oh, oh which one?

[LPPrince]

I tend to not criticize those mods because, frankly, it's not my business.  The beauty of mods is that they only work on the player's game.  It doesn't change anything about the actual story.  While I personally don't support them for myself (I eyeroll especially hard when they're marketed as 'improving' the character.....), I don't come down on people who use/create them because it's not really my place to tell other people how to enjoy their game. 

 

Same, I keep my opinions to myself if I don't have something nice to say. 99.99% of the time(I'm accounting for any future case where I might break that rule).

[LPPrince]

Oh, oh which one?

 

Screw it.

 

Spoiler

 

[daveliam]

That doesn't work at all because sex with men and women are completely different experiences. I mean, if a bi guy loves the being a bottom in a relationship with a guy, and yet is with a girl, how exactly would he be sexually satisfied in that way? He could use a strap-on, but the feeling and experience is totally different than being with an actual guy.

 

You are speaking of an oddly specific instance.  In that one case where the guy has a very different sexual role with men and women and also can't make due with a close approximation.....sure?  Maybe that guy would be unfulfilled.  But it's not the experience writ large by any approximation.

 

In most cases,  you make due with what you get.  If you are unhappy with what your partner has/does, you work it out with them or you cheat on them or you leave them.  But that's pretty much universal across all gender/orientation combinations.  Bisexuals are absolutely 100% not more likely to cheat.  There are actual quantifiable research results that support this.  I've never seen anything to support they are more likely to answer a 'highly dissatisfied' response on some Likert scale question about sexual fulfillment either. 

[Felya87]

My only true problem with only two LI (male and female) is that almost surely the character with the depressing story (terrible unforgiving past/actions, dead lover/wife/husband/kid, inavoidable death, or cheating/leaving no matter what) will be the male one...

[OhNoWhyHow]

I actually wouldn't mind the 2 character LI model except that I think it's almost certain they would both be humans, which is just incalculably boring to me in an ME game. 

[Panda]

Personally I wouldn't be happy only with 2 LI's, I like having LI's to choose from and having only 2 would lower replayability of the game for me. And there would be much higher chance of me not liking either one than me not liking anyone from 6 or 8 LI's.

[LPPrince]

2 LI's is not enough after the amount of options the last few games have had unless only 2 makes sense story wise.

[daveliam]

My only true problem with only two LI (male and female) is that almost surely the character with the depressing story (terrible unforgiving past/actions, dead lover/wife/husband/kid, inavoidable death, or cheating/leaving no matter what) will be the male one...

I actually wouldn't mind the 2 character LI model except that I think it's almost certain they would both be humans, which is just incalculably boring to me in an ME game. 

 

True on both accounts.  I don't need them to be alien or human, so I'm kind of indifferent to this, but I can imagine all sorts of people losing their minds if the only option for straight men/lesbians is an asari or turian.  Or the only options for straight women/gay men is a quarian or drell.  Personally, I'd be cool with it, but I imagine that others wouldn't.  Which then leads to the 'artifical restriction' of Bioware being required to create a romanceable human man and woman in the game, which, frankly, I don't see how it's any different than the 'artificial restrictions' people are already complaining about.

[FemShem]

While I don't remember that specific one, just because it was recorded doesn't mean it was "cut" in the sense that it was originally intended to be in the game but they changed their minds. It's every bit as likely (if not more so) that they never intended to make Miranda (or any other characters with such recorded scenes) bisexual, but, seeing as they had the VAs in the studio, recorded the scenes in case they later changed their minds. Its a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to have the VAs do a few extra scenes that don't get used, than to have to get them back in should you later decide you want to change the character's sexuality. 

 

That's not to say every bit of "cut" content wasn't ever really intended to go into the game. But I'd be willing to bet a significant portion of it falls under this category.

You are quite correct btw.  I would have had the actors VO dialogue while they were there rather than call them back in at a later time and reset for more time, it's cost prohibitive.

That being said, it did cost money to have it scripted and voiced.  The writer's are probably on salary, but the VO talent certainly isn't.  It cost them a bit to budget the extra expenditure.  Good money in VO work if you an actor, most lucrative and easiest paycheck IMHO.

You are absolutely right that it is not cut content, and seriously, 'my bad' because that is misleading; however, BioWare spend money on it...so it's why unintentionally thought of it as cut content, though they may not have considered putting it in game too seriously.

[leadintea]

You are speaking of an oddly specific instance.  In that one case where the guy has a very different sexual role with men and women and also can't make due with a close approximation.....sure?  Maybe that guy would be unfulfilled.  But it's not the experience writ large by any approximation.

 

In most cases,  you make due with what you get.  If you are unhappy with what your partner has/does, you work it out with them or you cheat on them or you leave them.  But that's pretty much universal across all gender/orientation combinations.  Bisexuals are absolutely 100% not more likely to cheat.  There are actual quantifiable research results that support this.  I've never seen anything to support they are more likely to answer a 'highly dissatisfied' response on some Likert scale question about sexual fulfillment either. 

 

Yeah, I never said that bis are more likely to cheat than other orientations, just that I feel that they'd be less sexually satisfied than people of other orientations would be. And yeah, there isn't much research done on this particular subject of bisexuality from what I could see. However, as I was searching on this subject, I happened across a forum where a member talked about how it was difficult for them to be with one partner since they were emotionally attracted to men, yet sexually attracted to females, which I think also shows a side of bisexuality that people don't talk about often.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

I actually wouldn't mind the 2 character LI model except that I think it's almost certain they would both be humans, which is just incalculably boring to me in an ME game. 

 

It was heavily implied in that one dev quote I don't have handy that there would be an alien romance.

[alienatedflea]

The argument isn't that there's value in the gate, though.  His argument is that if there was a well received straight romance, gay people would demand that the character is changed to being bisexual so that they could experience it with their preferred gender as well.  I'm simply pointing that out that characters like Solas, Cass, and Cullen (all from the most recent game) demonstrate that this isn't the case.  People making a mod =/= people demanding the character's sexuality is changed canonically.  That was really my point.

 

 

There are crazies of all demographics. 

 

And, again, I don't see a mod as the same thing as the poster was talking about.  He was implying that gay people would demand that the devs retcon a character's sexuality if they were straight and had a well-received romance arc.  It was a build off of his "Kaidan was ruined when the devs were forced to turn him bisexual" argument.

 

Of course, I think my first statement in this response probably hits close to home with that one.

Kaidan/Anders wasn't a mod...the character was changed for no reason other than like the title of this thread, "making romance more 'Fair'".  Just call a spade a spade...you demand/want/would like to see a rpg where there is a majority of gay or bi characters so that LGBT gamers would have more choice which seems to be fair to them.  Any voice of dissent against this "fairness" is called homophobic bigot like Char already established.  Don't call that fairness because it really isn't and you know it.  

[The Antagonist]

Why should lgb people have as many options as straights?

[Panda]

Kaidan/Anders wasn't a mod...the character was changed for no reason other than like the title of this thread, "making romance more 'Fair'".  Just call a spade a spade...you demand/want/would like to see a rpg where there is a majority of gay or bi characters so that LGBT gamers would have more choice which seems to be fair to them.  Any voice of dissent against this "fairness" is called homophobic bigot like Char already established.  Don't call that fairness because it really isn't and you know it.  

 

I'm pretty sure that Anders changed because spirit went inside him and merged together with his mind. Union that made him to get obsessed about mage freedom and changing from jokester to person who is pretty grim. I don't know how him being bisexual affected his personality at all.

 

I don't think Kaidan changed really.

[The Elder King]

Kaidan/Anders wasn't a mod...the character was changed for no reason other than like the title of this thread, "making romance more 'Fair'". Just call a spade a spade...you demand/want/would like to see a rpg where there is a majority of gay or bi characters so that LGBT gamers would have more choice which seems to be fair to them. Any voice of dissent against this "fairness" is called homophobic bigot like Char already established. Don't call that fairness because it really isn't and you know it.

Daveliam never said ha wants more character gay or bi then straight. He specifically said he wants 2/2/2 LI.
Also, Anders' personality change is due Justice in how body, not being bi. I already talked about Kaidan, but You must've missed my post. Or ignored it.

[Panda]

Why would like lgb have as many options as straights?

 

So that every character and player has LI choices to choose from?

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Kaidan/Anders wasn't a mod...the character was changed for no reason other than like the title of this thread, "making romance more 'Fair'".  Just call a spade a spade...you demand/want/would like to see a rpg where there is a majority of gay or bi characters so that LGBT gamers would have more choice which seems to be fair to them.  Any voice of dissent against this "fairness" is called homophobic bigot like Char already established.  Don't call that fairness because it really isn't and you know it.  

 

You're really going for that gold medal in Olympic mental gymnastics, aren't you?

[Lady Luminous]

Why should lgb people have as many options as straights?

 

There's a little something called equality. Why not explain why they shouldn't?

 

 

^{*Feeding the troll, I know...}

[daveliam]

Kaidan/Anders wasn't a mod...the character was changed for no reason other than like the title of this thread, "making romance more 'Fair'".  Just call a spade a spade...you demand/want/would like to see a rpg where there is a majority of gay or bi characters so that LGBT gamers would have more choice which seems to be fair to them.  Any voice of dissent against this "fairness" is called homophobic bigot like Char already established.  Don't call that fairness because it really isn't and you know it.  

 

Back to just making up stuff again.  I'll make it easy for you:  I've told you several times what it is that I 'want/would like to see'.  It's not what you keep saying.  Like, at all.  You are making a fool of yourself because you are resorting to lying about things that are black and white (literally black type on the white background in the conversation that we are currently having; people can go back and read what I've written and see the truth). 

 

Also. Anders was confirmed by the writer to have been conceived as a bisexual character back in DA: A.  I'll say that again:  The writer confirmed that Anders was bisexual in DA: A.  Confirmed.  Not up for debate.  Your understanding of the characters in these settings is woefully lacking if you are going to keep making statements like the ones that you are making.

 

I'm pretty sure that Anders changed because spirit went inside him and merged together with his mind. Union that made him to get obsessed about mage freedom and changing from jokester to person who is pretty grim. I don't know how him being bisexual affected his personality at all.

 

I don't think Kaidan changed really.

 

All of this has already been pointed out to this poster multiple times and he's ignored it soundly because it is the truth and negates his entire argument.  Seriously, he's not even mentioned it once despite many people telling him this was the case.  He just keeps his blinders on and repeats the same incorrect stuff over and over as if people will just accept it as truth if he does it enough.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Back to just making up stuff again.  I'll make it easy for you:  I've told you several times what it is that I 'want/would like to see'.  It's not what you keep saying.  Like, at all.  You are making a fool of yourself because you are resorting to lying about things that are black and white (literally black type on the white background in the conversation that we are currently having; people can go back and read what I've written and see the truth). 

 

Also. Anders was confirmed by the writer to have been conceived as a bisexual character back in DA: A.  I'll say that again:  The writer confirmed that Anders was bisexual in DA: A.  Confirmed.  Not up for debate.  Your understanding of the characters in these settings is woefully lacking if you are going to keep making statements like the ones that you are making.

 

 

All of this has already been pointed out to this poster multiple times and he's ignored it soundly because it is the truth and negates his entire argument.  Seriously, he's not even mentioned it once despite many people telling him this was the case.  He just keeps his blinders on and repeats the same incorrect stuff over and over as if people will just accept it as truth if he does it enough.

 

Well, it works for a certan American political party who shall not be named, so...

[Hellion Rex]

^^...did you really have to bring that in?

[Hellion Rex]

Kaidan/Anders wasn't a mod...the character was changed for no reason other than like the title of this thread, "making romance more 'Fair'". Just call a spade a spade...you demand/want/would like to see a rpg where there is a majority of gay or bi characters so that LGBT gamers would have more choice which seems to be fair to them. Any voice of dissent against this "fairness" is called homophobic bigot like Char already established. Don't call that fairness because it really isn't and you know it.

Surely you jest.