2503 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

We've sort of already addressed the idea of a sexuality toggle (never going to happen) but I do feel I ought to add- if someone is having hysterics because someone they weren't interested in tried to flirt with them... Well, that's a problem with the player, not a problem with the game.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd happily play a Krogan romance Bioware games have basically made me realise that my criteria for romance are essentially a nice voice and a sense of humour. Everything else is window dressing.

 

Very much agree with the bolded, then again I've always been quite the the sucker for a good voice.

[Grieving Natashina]

You might be right.. Thane and Krogan are both amphibian-like.

 

I'd rather this not escalate though. It starts becoming like an arms race... except for fetishes.

 Don't worry, I won't go there.  I can behave in the DA BDSM thread, so it's easy to behave in here.

 

As I mentioned in my edit, things like the Hanar would be a touch too much.  I think that the ME team is going to stick with more-or-less the most humanoid looking races, like Asari, Turian, ect, or whatever new races they'll have for this game, as well as humans of course.  

 

I love the idea of a Krogan romance, but as far as the actual reality, I don't think the ME team has that in mind.  I'm okay with this, because Krogan are all about having more kids of their own.  It doesn't prevent cross-species romance ("Oh Blue Rose of Ilium") but I could see that being a hindrance.  Besides, I have other idea about current and potential future races that sound more interesting.

 

One idea I liked was having an empath in the party.  Krogans are awesome, but they aren't exactly the sensitive type.

[The Elder King]

If you ask me, that ship sailed around the time they introduced Thane.  I don't sweat things like "Furries" in a Sci-Fi setting, to be honest.  Within limits of course (the Hanar would be way too far,) but I don't see the Krogan as anymore non-human as Iron Bull is all things considered.  They aren't my preferred race to romance, but I'm open minded to the idea.  
 
Now, if I see a werewolf LI option for Dragon Age, then I'll get a little confused.

I think the comparison with the qunari fits enough, Though I think Krogan Are more...extreme then qunari.
Though that asari on Illium didn't seem to mind, so what would I know .
Besides, I don't think it'd be that much worse then the shame sex event with Javik.

[dgcatanisiri]

I'm not as bitter, probably because I wasn't around before ME2's reveal.  I found it an enlightening and uncomfortable look into BioWare's past.  I was only familiar with DA's style of romance content (aside from Valen, I ignored BG2 LI for the ladies and I didn't know about Genn for several years) and I was pretty taken aback by a lot of ME's style.  It showed me how far that BioWare has tried to come as a whole with the DA series at least.  

 

I wonder if, because ME was a more mainstream success than DA:O was, if they were using Dragon Age to test the waters fully when it came to LGBT+ content as well as LGB+ romances.  I know it sounds a little Tin Foil Hat, but it's something I've mulled over before.

 

Personally, I'm kinda bitter, because it's been a similar story with the DAI LI's - Cassandra is a tough-as-nails, take-no-**** female warrior, with short hair, a woman in a traditional masculine role BUT SHE ONLY WANTS THE D! And I have some issues personally about how I still feel that 'lovable rogue' and 'sleeps with anything that moves' are still the default categories that they give for male same-sex options over in Dragon Age. The characters can evolve from those starting points, but that's still the core archtype that it seems they go for.

 

That bitterness also probably has a lot to do with how they were pretty much dragged kicking and screaming to get not just male same-sex options, but an ADMISSION of Liara as a bisexual romance. I remember a LOT of hemming and hawing about how asari 'didn't really count' since they're monogender, even though they openly admitted that the asari were designed to be attractive as love interests, and, based on that, it's easy to see that as 'heterosexual male love interests.' At one point, someone said that Shepard was 'too predefined' to be homosexual, a statement that was rightly torn apart.

 

I've been burned before by Mass Effect's attitudes on same-sex romances, basically. So I'm a little gunshy and paranoid about what the option will be, because it was like pulling teeth to get what we got in ME3.

[daveliam]

I really fail to see how a krogan romance somehow crosses a line yet there are no issues with blue women with tentacles on their heads; a chicken-lizard man with mandibles; a immune-compromised lady confined to a spacesuit who has backward bending legs; and frog-lizard ninja guy.

 

I mean, I can see having that stance against all interspecies romances.  But I don't see how krogan are really any different than the others.  They are just bulkier and more aggressive.  But they're still humanoid.

 

Now hanar  on the other hand.......

[The Elder King]

You might be right.. Thane and Krogan are both amphibian-like.
 
I'd rather this not escalate though. It starts becoming like an arms race... except for fetishes.

Aren't krogans reptiles?

[The Elder King]

I really fail to see how a krogan romance somehow crosses a line yet there are no issues with blue women with tentacles on their heads; a chicken-lizard man with mandibles; a immune-compromised lady confined to a spacesuit who has backward bending legs; and frog-lizard ninja guy.
 
I mean, I can see having that stance against all interspecies romances.  But I don't see how krogan are really any different than the others.  They are just bulkier and more aggressive.  But they're still humanoid.
 
Now hanar  on the other hand.......

To be clear, I didn't mean krogans cross a like and other aliens not in my post.

[Grieving Natashina]

I think the comparison with the qunari fits enough, Though I think Krogan Are more...extreme then qunari.
Though that asari on Illium didn't seem to mind, so what would I know .
Besides, I don't think it'd be that much worse then the shame sex event with Javik.

One of the very few times I've been actively angry towards members of any BioWare game team was when I saw that.  Seriously, I was humiliated for those that kept their Shepards single and ran into that "joke."  

 

If there had been something implying consent by player imput, then fine.  Javik had a great voice and some charisma despite his nature.  Whatever.  It's ME, so I don't think a prothean would be that outrageous.  Doing it against the player's will?  I would earn my first warning points on the BSN if I go into full details about my feelings on the subject.  Let's just say I didn't like it at all and I'll leave it at that.    

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't know.. I just said amphibian, because they're toad like. While Thane is frog like.

Since the Drell have trouble dealing with very moist climates, and since they come from a dry homeworld, I always leaned towards "desert lizard" myself.

 

Edit: I've seen Krogan compared to tortoises, given their hump (very shell like) and their very long lifespans.

[The Elder King]

One of the very few times I've been actively angry towards members of any BioWare game team was when I saw that.  Seriously, I was humiliated for those that kept their Shepards single and ran into that "joke."  
 
If there had been something implying consent by player imput, then fine.  Javik had a great voice and some charisma despite his nature.  Whatever.  It's ME, so I don't think a prothean would be that outrageous.  Doing it against the player's will?  I would earn my first warning points on the BSN if I go into full details about my feelings on the subject.  Let's just say I didn't like it at all and I'll leave it at that.    

  
Agreed.

I don't know.. I just said amphibian, because they're toad like. While Thane is frog like.

Understood.
I always saw them as reptile-like. Not that it matters much .

[Char]

Since the Drell have trouble dealing with very moist climates, and since they come from a dry homeworld, I always leaned towards "desert lizard" myself.
 
Edit: I've seen Krogan compared to tortoises, given their hump (very shell like) and their very long lifespans.

For some reason I always thought the hump was some part of the armour I can't believe I never twigged that it was their physiology.

[Grieving Natashina]

Personally, I'm kinda bitter, because it's been a similar story with the DAI LI's - Cassandra is a tough-as-nails, take-no-**** female warrior, with short hair, a woman in a traditional masculine role BUT SHE ONLY WANTS THE D! And I have some issues personally about how I still feel that 'lovable rogue' and 'sleeps with anything that moves' are still the default categories that they give for male same-sex options over in Dragon Age. The characters can evolve from those starting points, but that's still the core archtype that it seems they go for.

 

That bitterness also probably has a lot to do with how they were pretty much dragged kicking and screaming to get not just male same-sex options, but an ADMISSION of Liara as a bisexual romance. I remember a LOT of hemming and hawing about how asari 'didn't really count' since they're monogender, even though they openly admitted that the asari were designed to be attractive as love interests, and, based on that, it's easy to see that as 'heterosexual male love interests.' At one point, someone said that Shepard was 'too predefined' to be homosexual, a statement that was rightly torn apart.

 

I've been burned before by Mass Effect's attitudes on same-sex romances, basically. So I'm a little gunshy and paranoid about what the option will be, because it was like pulling teeth to get what we got in ME3.

I was around for DA:I's development too.  I've posted many many times in the past about they've almost seemed to accidentally marginalize their portrayal of LGBT+ characters by shying away from some stereotypes.  It's unfortunate and I hope they've listened to the DA threads discussing that over the last year.  I know Allan was around for several of them, so someone connected to the DA team was listening. <hugs>

 

I get the bitterness.  After I finally played the ME series last year, I went through some of the older threads.  The "Shepard can't be gay" statements by the devs is something I only found out about recently.  That made me double take, years after the fact.  I know I would have been rather furious had I been there at the time.  I don't judge ME fans for their bitterness in a lot of area, provided that they aren't rude to others about it (like you.)  I only see the remnants and I can't blame you or Orchid (or several other LGBT+ ME fans I know) for being leery of the ME team's possible treatment of LGBT+ content and romances in ME:A and beyond.

 

 

For some reason I always thought the hump was some part of the armour   I can't believe I never twigged that it was their physiology.

Just like tortoises with their shells, they can live off the nutrient in their humps for at least a little while until they can get food and water again.

 

They remind me of snapping turtles too.  For comparison:

 

Spoiler

"Shepard."

 

Oh and snapping turtles are known for being quite aggressive.

[Farewell]

I prefer that there are equal amount of LIs to everybody. Although it didn't bother me at all when I played ME1 and my female Shepard could only romance Kaidan. Most likely because I liked Kaidan so much. I said could only because I only romance male characters. It doesn't bother me that much if there aren't equal amount of LIs to my straight female PC to choose from if there is at least one option to her. However what bothers me is that some of the romances can fail or are doomed to fail and you can't do anything about it like Thane and Jacob and I want to avoid those kind of romances. I believe I wouldn't be so annoyed about those doomed romances if those romances could happen to anyone but they happened to be options to straight female PCs and they were in a same game.

I'm not sure is ME:A going to start a trilogy. If it's then I think it would be better if there would be one female and one male LI for everybody or maybe 2 female LIs and 2 male LIs available for everybody. When there is only one option to choose from then there is a risk that you don't like it. My worries are that if the ME:A is going to start a trilogy and there are a lot of LIs then something like Thane and Jacob would happen in sequels and I don't want that to happen. If there are only few LIs then I think it's easier to continue those romances in sequels and introduce new LIs because I think that is also important. If there is something similar like the keep then new players could choose who they romanced in a first game and they could continue the romance in the second game like those who played the first game. Although I think it's also important to introduce new LIs in sequels as well.

[The Elder King]

Personally, I'm kinda bitter, because it's been a similar story with the DAI LI's - Cassandra is a tough-as-nails, take-no-**** female warrior, with short hair, a woman in a traditional masculine role BUT SHE ONLY WANTS THE D! And I have some issues personally about how I still feel that 'lovable rogue' and 'sleeps with anything that moves' are still the default categories that they give for male same-sex options over in Dragon Age. The characters can evolve from those starting points, but that's still the core archtype that it seems they go for.
 
That bitterness also probably has a lot to do with how they were pretty much dragged kicking and screaming to get not just male same-sex options, but an ADMISSION of Liara as a bisexual romance. I remember a LOT of hemming and hawing about how asari 'didn't really count' since they're monogender, even though they openly admitted that the asari were designed to be attractive as love interests, and, based on that, it's easy to see that as 'heterosexual male love interests.' At one point, someone said that Shepard was 'too predefined' to be homosexual, a statement that was rightly torn apart.
 
I've been burned before by Mass Effect's attitudes on same-sex romances, basically. So I'm a little gunshy and paranoid about what the option will be, because it was like pulling teeth to get what we got in ME3.

I understand why people wanted Cassandra as a s/s option, but I don't understand your point. A woman like Cassandra can be straight, lesbians or bisexual. The fact that she has short hair, is Though and in a traditional masculine role doesn't mean she has To be bisexual.
I hope I was clear in my post that I wasn't against Cass being bisexual. I just don't understand why her archetype has to fall in any part of the sexual orientation in Spectre. I do hope Bioware would make strong fermale warriors LI for women as well.
Ad for the m/m romance, aren't Dorian, Fenris and Anders different from the 'lovable rogue' or 'sleeps with anybody' archetypes?

[Grieving Natashina]

The point that I think dgcat was getting at was that BioWare seems so shy to make any "butch" character a lesbian that they're neglecting the idea all together.  For some, this is made insulting when there is a small loud minority that keep making threads about how ugly and "mainly" someone like Cass is  Her fan thread was even started by a lesbian.  

 

That's partially why the Gay Knight in Shining Armor thread in the DA feedback section exists.  It isn't just for a gay/bisexual male character that's the warrior in front, but for a lady that is as well.  Most of the regulars in that thread (including me) are focusing their attention on offering new ideas, rather than lamenting what wasn't meant to be. 

 

Among bisexual characters, I agree with Fenris and Anders.  Josie is a nice subversion as well.   However, we've had a lot more "loveable rogues" and "horndogs" from the bisexual characters prior to DA:I.  The only other bisexual LI in that game, Iron Bull, is not a rogue but otherwise fits into the sexually active bisexual archetype.  Dorian is gay, but I agree that he doesn't seem like the type to sleep around as much as his flirtatious nature might suggest.

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't know if this went into any of his thinking, but I remember an old blog where Gaider said he always wished he could have written Ash or Jack.... and Wonder Woman. Maybe that's what he was trying to go for with Cass. Just a tough chick. Not necessarily "butch".

I see "butch" as synonymous with a tough lady warrior, at least in this case.  Most of the bi/lesbian romances have been very feminine in most of their manner and appearance.  I don't count Sera, because she's more of a tomboy type and could be considered in the middle.

 

Liara

Samantha

Leliana

Merrill

Isabela

Josie

Kelly

 

That doesn't mean that they are bad characters (YMMV of course,) but there has been a trend.  I think this would be a nice chance for the ME team to have a romance from someone more like Ashley (personality and ME1 appearance) or Cassandra for their lesbian/bi players.

[SardaukarElite]

I think the notion that Cas is masculine stems from an unrealistic expectation for women to display their femininity overtly, all the time, at any cost.

 

Now hanar  on the other hand.......

 

...have reach and flexibility?

[The Elder King]

The point that I think dgcat was getting at was that BioWare seems so shy to make any "butch" character a lesbian that they're neglecting the idea all together.  For some, this is made insulting when there is a small loud minority that keep making threads about how ugly and "mainly" someone like Cass is  Her fan thread was even started by a lesbian.  
 
That's partially why the Gay Knight in Shining Armor thread in the DA feedback section exists.  It isn't just for a gay/bisexual male character that's the warrior in front, but for a lady that is as well.  Most of the regulars in that thread (including me) are focusing their attention on offering new ideas, rather than lamenting what wasn't meant to be. 
 
Among bisexual characters, I agree with Fenris and Anders.  Josie is a nice subversion as well.   However, we've had a lot more "loveable rogues" and "horndogs" from the bisexual characters prior to DA:I.  The only other bisexual LI in that game, Iron Bull, is not a rogue but otherwise fits into the sexually active bisexual archetype.  Dorian is gay, but I agree that he doesn't seem like the type to sleep around as much as his flirtatious nature might suggest.

  

I see "butch" as synonymous with a tough lady warrior, at least in this case.  Most of the bi/lesbian romances have been very feminine in most of their manner and appearance.  I don't count Sera, because she's more of a tomboy type and could be considered in the middle.
 
Liara
Samantha
Leliana
Merrill
Isabela
Josie
Kelly
 
That doesn't mean that they are bad characters (YMMV of course,) but there has been a trend.  I think this would be a nice chance for the ME team to have a romance from someone more like Ashley or Cassandra for their lesbian/bi players.

Understood, and I agree, as I said in my first post about this topic.

[Grieving Natashina]

   Understood, and I agree, as I said in my first post about this topic.

Oh, I wasn't trying to debate with you, promise.  I was just clearing that up for you and Street so he could get where I was coming from.  I don't think Street was debating with me anymore than you were.  You both seemed politely curious.  

 

 

Isabela strikes me as different kind of feminine. She has a swagger and ease in her surroundings, that puts her in a whole different category than Liara or Merrill. They play up the "girl" part with them much more... but she's a woman.

I wasn't implying all of the women were alike, but they do share some similarities.  

 

Most of the more "tough no-nonsense" female companions in BioWare games are straight, particularly among the love interests.  Cass, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Morrigan.  Even non romances, like Aveline are typically made straight.  It's like they're gunshy from making women that look like Cass or Aveline, or more no-nonsense personalty like all of the examples I just listed ,into non-hetero romances due to not wishing to offend anyone.