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So... Can Romance Be A Little More Fair This Time?


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#1376
HuldraDancer

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Otakukin.  That's even weirder.  Someone that thinks they have the soul of an anime character.  I'd rather talk to someone that thinks they have the soul of a wolf or something.

 

Heh that last bit sounds like me when I was between 5-8 maybe less literal but it did go far enough where I tried to insist my meat be raw along with some other strange things like trying to free my 'kin' from their cages when we visited a wolf park. Pretty sure that's more of being a small child rather than an otherkin though :lol:



#1377
ManchesterUnitedFan1

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There are 4 straight female romances (if you're an elf) and 2 gay female romances.

 

I'm talking about mass effect.



#1378
Grieving Natashina

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@Huldra We were all a little crazier when we were kids.  That's normal enough, as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

I'm talking about mass effect.

How are you?  Long time no see.  <hugs>



#1379
Dark Helmet

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planetkin

 

Stop oppressing me! I'm a toasterkin.

 

It's totally a thing and Tumblr will defend it!



#1380
Lady Artifice

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Yeah, because they were the only ones Hawke could romance and they all just so happened to be bisexual while the people not interested in Hawke were of other sexualities. It was bizarre and the point was brought up many a time post-DA2 pre-Inquisition by maaany people.

 

Bisexuality depicted in a game shouldn't feel forced or artificial. No sexuality should. Sexuality is a real thing and it hits home for everyone in some way or another;lets depict a range of sexualities instead of defaulting to one as a "catch all". That isn't fair to bisexuality or those who are bisexual. They aren't a net that can catch anyone, and anyone can't just catch them.

 

That wasn't Bioware's intent, but it felt odd to me anyway. I much preferred Inquisition's featuring of multiple sexualities for romantic partners. That was great. I only played once due to the length of the game but if I was so inclined to romance more than one person I'd of rolled different characters to do it and thats wonderful. Multiple perspectives, respect goes to everyone.

 

I can understand this perspective easily, and I can't count how many people I've seen express it, but I think that the sheer unlikelihood of there being four, single, romantically/sexually available bisexuals in a group of seven is being exaggerated. A statistical survey might place the number of bisexuals in a group of seven at a much lower rate than what we saw in DA2, but as I understand it, that would be using a controlled statistical process. It wouldn't usually involve factoring in social instincts, the natural ebb and flow of interaction and the way people subconsciously, impulsively, gravitate toward people like themselves. 

 

We see it so often in media. There's this group of friends, on or two of them might be black, one of them is gay, one of them is jewish, one is a vegetarian and a health nut, one is a musician, etc. It makes sense that it happens in the movies and television, but it becomes a case of "reality is unrealistic" after we start to feel like that's a standard that should default in storytelling. It could happen that we find so diverse a group of friends, but in the real world, race, religion, and definitely sexuality play a huge factor in who we relate to, who we feel understood by and who we're drawn to. In the real world, four people sharing the same minority sexuality makes them more likely to congregate in a group together. 

 

So where I differ about this is whether it felt forced to me in the first place. I'm not saying that Hawke's group gravitated toward each other over their sexualities, because Hawke's group gravitated toward each other over Hawke, and that's pretty much it. But real world statistics still don't make feel like it's improbable to the point of being an immersion issue, because I see such irregularities in real world social groups way too often for that. I work in the California wine business, and three of coworkers are from New Jersey. Three of them. And it's not like they knew each other or passed news about working there around to all of the other New Jersey people in northern California. They just happened to end up in the same tasting room. People take coincidences like that completely in stride during day to day life, but then they feel like it's completely contrived in a fictional setting. 

 

Taking social tendencies into consideration, just over half of that group being bisexual is definitely not one of it's unlikely aspects. Those characters have other factors that make it weird for them to congregate. One human pirate captain from Rivain, one possessed human apostate from the Anderfels, one Dalish elf pariah from Ferelden, and one elven magic knight/super soldier from Tevinter. On top of that, a few of them detest each other, and still spend time together. Those four sharing a sexual orientation might be the least unbelievable things about them hanging around together for a decade. 

 

I really liked the DAI variations too, and I absolutely agree that they boosted replay value, but they do also come with their own statistical issues. The original group of six planned LIs ended up consisting of one straight man, one straight woman, one gay man, one lesbian woman, and of course one male character and one female character available to both male and female PCs. That's awfully on the nose when it comes to variations of sexuality in a group. I'm definitely not finding fault with it, but I also don't think it's inherently more believable than there being four single, bisexual people in one social group. I think DAI's system worked for DAI, and I think DA2's system worked for DA2.

 

I'm hoping that they'll have a system that works for MEA. 


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#1381
Jorji Costava

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So where I differ about this is whether it felt forced to me in the first place. I'm not saying that Hawke's group gravitated toward each other over their sexualities, because Hawke's group gravitated toward each other over Hawke, and that's pretty much it. But real world statistics still don't make feel like it's improbable to the point of being an immersion issue, because I see such irregularities in real world social groups way too often for that. I work in the California wine business, and three of coworkers are from New Jersey. Three of them. And it's not like they knew each other or passed news about working there around to all of the other New Jersey people in northern California. They just happened to end up in the same tasting room. People take coincidences like that completely in stride during day to day life, but then they feel like it's completely contrived in a fictional setting. 

 

In my first year of grad school, I lived in a graduate dormitory (not a great idea BTW) and there were two guys on my floor named "Kirk." They were pretty cool, as long as you didn't make any Star Trek jokes around them. :)

 

Anyways, I always viewed DA2's system as an acceptable realism/gameplay tradeoff, similar to having a group consist of the same amount of mages, rogues and fighters. The in-universe probability that your group of traveling companions would have this exact breakdown in terms of their occupation is quite low, but it's necessary to ensure that your group doesn't have any gaping holes in terms of its capabilities. Same with having four bisexual LI's as far as I'm concerned; perhaps there are legitimate concerns about it (for instance, I've heard it argued that if everyone's bisexual, you're not really providing representation for lesbian and/or gay persons), but realism is definitely not high on my list of concerns about it.


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#1382
Lady Artifice

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In my first year of grad school, I lived in a graduate dormitory (not a great idea BTW) and there were two guys on my floor named "Kirk." They were pretty cool, as long as you didn't make any Star Trek jokes around them. :)

 

Anyways, I always viewed DA2's system as an acceptable realism/gameplay tradeoff, similar to having a group consist of the same amount of mages, rogues and fighters. The in-universe probability that your group of traveling companions would have this exact breakdown in terms of their occupation is quite low, but it's necessary to ensure that your group doesn't have any gaping holes in terms of its capabilities. Same with having four bisexual LI's as far as I'm concerned; perhaps there are legitimate concerns about it (for instance, I've heard it argued that if everyone's bisexual, you're not really providing representation for lesbian and/or gay persons), but realism is definitely not high on my list of concerns about it.

 

That's the crux of it for me as well. If I'm going to make realism in these stories a concern of mine, the sexualities of the characters isn't where I draw that line. 

 

I feel like, if I did make realism a big consideration, it would be a constant exercise in frustration. 


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#1383
God

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I'm different. I don't mind it being more realistic in its representation. In fact, I want it that way. 



#1384
RINNZ

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I'm different.


Do you pull up to the scene with your ceiling missin'?
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#1385
Evamitchelle

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I'm talking about mass effect.

 

But that makes you even more wildly off mark ! "And yet there are 7 straight female romances and 2 straight male ones". BroShep certainly does not have only 2 straight options. He's got 7 options, 5 of them squadmates in at least one game. FemShep has 4 straight options, all squadmates, but 2 of them leave her (by cheating/dying). 


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#1386
Ashevajak

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So what I'm taking away from this page is that bisexuals have a greater statistical likelihood of becoming fantasy heroes in doomed cities.

 

It's 4am and I'm drunk, but I'm sticking to this theory.  Plus correlation, it's science.


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#1387
KaiserShep

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I'm different. I don't mind it being more realistic in its representation. In fact, I want it that way. 

Within the confines of a video game, this sort of realism is impossible. A normal person can just go out and talk to anyone, but the PC is perpetually confined to a handful of people forever. 


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#1388
God

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Within the confines of a video game, this sort of realism is impossible. A normal person can just go out and talk to anyone, but the PC is perpetually confined to a handful of people forever. 

 

I'm talking about sexuality



#1389
God

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Do you pull up to the scene with your ceiling missin'?

 

I drive my car through the roof. 

 

So... yeah.



#1390
Lady Artifice

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Within the confines of a video game, this sort of realism is impossible. A normal person can just go out and talk to anyone, but the PC is perpetually confined to a handful of people forever. 

 

And the word realism is usually being used to argue for a larger percentage of straight people. There are statistically more straight people in the real world doesn't translate to "there will be more straight people in any given group than any other sexuality." Probability doesn't work that consistently.

 

Realism could mean that you get a crew of all men, or all unattractive people. Some of the people who claim to place value on realism of representation would be infuriated if they actually got it. 


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#1391
LPPrince

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And the word realism is usually being used to argue for a larger percentage of straight people. There are statistically more straight people in the real world doesn't translate to "there will be more straight people in any given group than any other sexuality." Probability doesn't work that consistently.

 

Realism could mean that you get a crew of all men, or all unattractive people. Some of the people who claim to place value on realism of representation would be infuriated if they actually got it. 

 

In regards to romance options in these games(which my goodness some people put so much value in) some want the more gamey, "I can have whoever I want!" option, others the more realistic, "I hope I match up with the one I'm interested in".

 

Its not wrong to want either, but I definitely prefer the latter. It really just depends what side of the coin someone's on.



#1392
Lady Artifice

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In regards to romance options in these games(which my goodness some people put so much value in) some want the more gamey, "I can have whoever I want!" option, others the more realistic, "I hope I match up with the one I'm interested in".

 

Its not wrong to want either, but I definitely prefer the latter. It really just depends what side of the coin someone's on.

 

I only occasionally play a self insert these days. When it comes my romance arc preference, it's as much about the romance arc itself as about some concept of personal matching up with a character. 

 

My two favorite romance arcs for DAI were the male PC only options, and even though I enjoy playing a male PC just fine, my default world state will always be a female hero. 



#1393
LPPrince

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I only occasionally play a self insert these days. When it comes my romance arc preference, it's as much about the romance arc itself as about some concept of personal matching up with a character. 

 

My two favorite romance arcs for DAI were the male PC only options, and even though I enjoy playing a male PC just fine, my default world state will always be a female hero. 

 

I play a mixed bag of male and female characters, depending on the game. I usually stick to one PC per game as thats just how I do things, makes my decisions and character feel final and "canon" in a way.

 

Assuming I play Andromeda I think I might play as a female hero this time given I played as a male Shepard for the original trilogy. I don't know what the plan is following Andromeda though, so its a bit hard to plan ahead.

 

Still, we'll see how it goes.


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#1394
Lady Artifice

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I play a mixed bag of male and female characters, depending on the game. I usually stick to one PC per game as thats just how I do things, makes my decisions and character feel final and "canon" in a way.

 

Assuming I play Andromeda I think I might play as a female hero this time given I played as a male Shepard for the original trilogy. I don't know what the plan is following Andromeda though, so its a bit hard to plan ahead.

 

Still, we'll see how it goes.

 

What was your Shepard like? I've never been able to decide between my paragon Sentinel and my paragade Engineer for which I consider my "canon" play through. 



#1395
Vapaa

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There's apparently a "greysexual", which is basically "only occasionally experiences sexual attraction". Those labels tho.

 

The more labels are being defined by the how rather than the what, the less I find them appropriate.

 

I know some people who would qualify as otherkin. I'm just not convinced that they evolved on the same path the rest of us did. 

 

I am dovahkin, and I'm going to steal your tableware yelling FUS ROH DAH !



#1396
LPPrince

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What was your Shepard like? I've never been able to decide between my paragon Sentinel and my paragade Engineer for which I consider my "canon" play through. 

 

He was mostly Paragon. Back in 2183 he was pretty much entirely the stand up good guy. In 2185 when he ended up teaming with Cerberus he stayed Paragon but went a bit more into the Renegade side(only so much). In 2186 once the Reapers came to wipe the Milky Way clean of organic life he went back to his old pretty much full Paragon ways.

 

He was a Vanguard through and through from start to finish.

 

Here's his appearance in ME2-

 

Spoiler

 

He fell in love with Ashley back during the events that led to the Battle of the Citadel, but after coming back from death there was some "drama" to say the least. He ended up realizing he had feelings for Tali, which were reciprocated. They discovered an interest in one another that developed into love that blossomed during the Reaper War.

 

He ended up destroying the Reapers, at what seemed to be the cost of his own life as well as that of Captain Anderson, EDI, and the Geth. Then again, there was a breath of fresh air...


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#1397
mrjack

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OK so I realise straight female players had poor choices compared to straight male male players but compared to gay players of either gender? Let's try swapping the situations around.

 

In the lesbian swap version:

  • In ME1 you get Kaidan
  • In ME2 you get a DLC with Kaidan, a flirt and cuddle with Kenny Chambers, the ship's councillor and a brief moment with Thane who says he can't be with you (Samara replacement).
  • No one to be with before going through the Omega 4 relay.
  • In ME3, you get a guaranteed Kaidan (whole game) and Steve who is mourning the loss of his wife Roberta plus a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shag with intrepid reporter Dean Allers.
  • No Garrus 

 

Lesbians get:

  • Liara in ME1 who can be killed.
  • In ME2, a brief scene on Illium with Liara (no DLC) but the complete romances of Miranda, Jack and Tali.
  • Liara again in ME3 (if she survived) plus Tali if romanced in ME2 but Miranda dies on Horizon and Jack finds someone else.
  • No Traynor

 

Gay man swap, you get:

  • No-one and nothing in ME1
  • No-one and nothing in ME2
  • A guaranteed Steve mourning his wife and Kaidan only if you saved him in ME1 but you don't get any romance content on Mars or the hospital or just after the coup (no butt staring). That's 3 times Kaidan says he loves you that you wouldn't hear. 
  • No Garrus

 

Gay guys get:

  • Kaidan in ME1
  • Kaidan on Horizon plus complete romances of Garrus, Thane and Jacob in ME2
  • Kaidan if he's survived  <_< and bonus early game romance, Garrus again if romanced in ME2 but Thane dies and Jacob cheats in ME3. Could end up with no-one.
  • No Steve

 

I'd be sad to lose Steve but... I don't know about the lesbians but I'll swap if you will :)



#1398
(Disgusted noise.)

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What was your Shepard like? I've never been able to decide between my paragon Sentinel and my paragade Engineer for which I consider my "canon" play through. 

Spacer/Ruthless, Renegade, Adept ManShep is where it's at.


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#1399
eyezonlyii

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OK so I realise straight female players had poor choices compared to straight male male players but compared to gay players of either gender? Let's try swapping the situations around.
 
In the lesbian swap version:

  • In ME1 you get Kaidan
  • In ME2 you get a DLC with Kaidan, a flirt and cuddle with Kenny Chambers, the ship's councillor and a brief moment with Thane who says he can't be with you (Samara replacement).
  • No one to be with before going through the Omega 4 relay.
  • In ME3, you get a guaranteed Kaidan (whole game) and Steve who is mourning the loss of his wife Roberta plus a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shag with intrepid reporter Dean Allers.
  • No Garrus 
 
Lesbians get:
  • Liara in ME1 who can be killed.
  • In ME2, a brief scene on Illium with Liara (no DLC) but the complete romances of Miranda, Jack and Tali.
  • Liara again in ME3 (if she survived) plus Tali if romanced in ME2 but Miranda dies on Horizon and Jack finds someone else.
  • No Traynor
 
Gay man swap, you get:
  • No-one and nothing in ME1
  • No-one and nothing in ME2
  • A guaranteed Steve mourning his wife and Kaidan only if you saved him in ME1 but you don't get any romance content on Mars or the hospital or just after the coup (no butt staring). That's 3 times Kaidan says he loves you that you wouldn't hear. 
  • No Garrus
 
Gay guys get:
  • Kaidan in ME1
  • Kaidan on Horizon plus complete romances of Garrus, Thane and Jacob in ME2
  • Kaidan if he's survived  <_< and bonus early game romance, Garrus again if romanced in ME2 but Thane dies and Jacob cheats in ME3. Could end up with no-one.
  • No Steve
 
I'd be sad to lose Steve but... I don't know about the lesbians but I'll swap if you will :)
Nope. I'll keep Steve, thank you very much. Dave gets Kaidan though.
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#1400
Battlebloodmage

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Nope. I'll keep Steve, thank you very much. Dave gets Kaidan though.

I'll take Garrus then. Everyone gets what they want. XD