2503 réponses à ce sujet

[KR96]

I can't say I'd have a problem with any of the characters flirting, gay/bi/straight as long as I have the options of indicating I'm not interested. And really, not all of the LI options, just a couple of them. "Sorry but if I give you my number it will be fake so if you don't want friendship just go away". Though I really liked the way Sam was set up so you could join her or play chess and she got it.

You're missing my point, I don't mind characters flirting at all, of whatever gender, I just feel that it's weird to say a character should have been bi because he is loyal/adores Shepard. I mean, if you adore someone but you're straight, then you might compliment someone on their achievements, but you wouldn't be romantically interested.

[mopotter]

 That is true, but the issue with this are those characters often are liked less by fans, and often are not even counted as an option. Josephine was given more content than any other side character to date, and she is still lamented by many people as a "fake" option. Kelly isnt really counted on the most part and it can often feel like lots of effort for little reward. I feel these characters need to be extras, or bisexual option that has an opposite counterpart as that quickly leads to disgruntledness at not getting a 'real" option.

Well, Cullen is one of my top picks as a romance, but I've also talked to him in every game which makes me feel like I know him even if my character doesn't.  And I've seen some who find Josephine as being very sweet.

 

I'm inclined to think no matter what they do some won't like it and some will and that's all of the romances.  If I can find one or two that I enjoy, the rest are just icing on the cake and  I think it would work if they do it right and if it's a character I end up liking I'll make it work  (thinking of Lt. Girard here) 

[OhNoWhyHow]

I can't say I'd have a problem with any of the characters flirting, gay/bi/straight as long as I have the options of indicating I'm not interested.  And really, not all of the LI options, just a couple of them.  "Sorry but if I give you my number it will be fake so if  you don't want friendship just go away".      Though I really liked the way Sam was set up so you could join her or play chess and she got it.

 

I actually really like when some companions flirt with you, whether it's serious flirting like Alistair/Anders or just joshing flirting as with Vega/Dorian (if you are a woman).

 

It seems Bioware has moved away from this trend because people freak out when someone they aren't interested in flirts with them (as if having to say no is the most horrible thing ever).  The only exception seems to be that it's okay for gay men to still flirt with you because Bioware drew a line in the sand over the Anders thing.  That's fine and all, but I wish this logic extended to all genders and orientations.  Not *every* LI has to be flirtatious, but if it's in character, let them flirt it up.

[Shechinah]

The only exception seems to be that it's okay for gay men to still flirt with you because Bioware drew a line in the sand over the Anders thing. 

What about Isabella?

[mopotter]

You're missing my point, I don't mind characters flirting at all, of whatever gender, I just feel that it's weird to say a character should have been bi because he is loyal/adores Shepard. I mean, if you adore someone but you're straight, then you might compliment someone on their achievements, but you wouldn't be romantically interested.

Ahhh,   yep, missed this point.      

[KR96]

Ahhh,   yep, missed this point.      

 

Glad I was able to elaborate.  

[OhNoWhyHow]

What about Isabella?

 

That was contemporaneous with the Anders thing.  People freaking out that Anders can flirt with you seems to have been the death knell of flirting (coupled with the heart icons and I'm assuming dev logic that LIs don't need to "advertise" themselves anymore).

 

Look at DAI.  8 LIs.  As far as I know, only Dorian flirts with you and then only *sort of* and vaguely in a way that can be passed off as something else. 

 

Does anybody but Kaidan flirt with you in ME3 (presumably to advertise his bi status)?  

 

Hence where I'm getting my "only gay men allowed" vibe.  Though to be fair, they also seem to have introduced a friendship flirt thing with Dorian and Vega, which I like.

 

Basically, where did the soft come-ons that characters like ME1 Kaidan and Alistair had go?

 

*Edit* Because apparently I can't write English.

[In Exile]

You're missing my point, I don't mind characters flirting at all, of whatever gender, I just feel that it's weird to say a character should have been bi because he is loyal/adores Shepard. I mean, if you adore someone but you're straight, then you might compliment someone on their achievements, but you wouldn't be romantically interested.

 

Not even flirting should be taken that seriously. I'm a really flirty person in a social setting (and apparently I don't even realize I'm doing it half the time). We need to really stop making all these silly inferences about who and what people like based on what they do that isn't, y'know, sex with a person. And even then, it's not necessarily 100% the same as the identity a person has adopted. 

[Lady Artifice]

To be fair, not all of the frustration around the Anders situation was about his forwardness toward mhawke. Some if it was about the rivalry points you gain as a result. And there's the issue that he seems completely oblivious to the possibility that a hawke of either gender might have an incompatible orientation.

Personally, I think it kind of works for him. He's got the irrational possessed mage thing going. Like a spirit, no concept of giving it time. He wants a confirmation of interest now. If you turn him down, and then try to flirt later, he'll then turn you down in response.

I'd love for them to change their minds about the player always needing to make the first move from now on thing. Flirtatious companions are fun.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'd love for them to change their minds about the player always needing to make the first move from now on thing. Flirtatious companions are fun.

 

Yes, that's something I mentioned in the DA:I threads as well. I don't like making the first step, it puts me out of my comfort zone. I want my LIs to flirt with me or at least try to show they are interested in me before I click on any heart shaped icon.

I think Zevran was rather good at that.

[KaiserShep]

Yes, that's something I mentioned in the DA:I threads as well. I don't like making the first step, it puts me out of my comfort zone. I want my LIs to flirt with me or at least try to show they are interested in me before I click on any heart shaped icon.

I think Zevran was rather good at that.

 

As was Isabela. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 That is true, but the issue with this are those characters often are liked less by fans, and often are not even counted as an option. Josephine was given more content than any other side character to date, and she is still lamented by many people as a "fake" option. Kelly isnt really counted on the most part and it can often feel like lots of effort for little reward. I feel these characters need to be extras, or bisexual option that has an opposite counterpart as that quickly leads to disgruntledness at not getting a 'real" option.

Josephine and Kelly are two of my favorite love interests Bioware ever made. I hope there are more characters like them in terms of romance content. 

[alienatedflea]

Is romance really the best word to use for DA/ME games?  Isn't it just sex?

 

Now I might be weird for saying this but is romance the same as sex?

 

In Mass Effect, you pick your mate and have a fling before you go off to certain death sort of mission (stopping Saren).  But the same thing happens in ME2 and3.  Is that really romance or just f#ck buddies on a ship? 

 

My point is you would think toward the end of a trilogy, your character and said mate would be a little more than just F... buddies. 

 

So I would like to see something more meaningful in this department in the next game.

 

Would yall?

[Lady Artifice]

Is romance really the best word to use for DA/ME games?  Isn't it just sex?

 

Now I might be weird for saying this but is romance the same as sex?

 

In Mass Effect, you pick your mate and have a fling before you go off to certain death sort of mission (stopping Saren).  But the same thing happens in ME2 and3.  Is that really romance or just f#ck buddies on a ship? 

 

My point is you would think toward the end of a trilogy, your character and said mate would be a little more than just F... buddies. 

 

So I would like to see something more meaningful in this department in the next game.

 

Would yall?

 

 

Well...my first reaction is to say that I think my Shepard and Kaidan had more focus on the emotional aspects of their relationship than the sexual. And even when there was a sex scene...Basically, I thought there was a reasonable balance.

 

I do think more depth and complexity could always be something for the writers to strive for. They're in a medium that adds extra challenges to doing that, but I'd say I've seen improvement to the way they write human (or alien or Elven, etc) interactions, whether romantic or friendly or antagonistic, in general over the course of their games, so I hope it continues to become more immersive and nuanced. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Is romance really the best word to use for DA/ME games?  Isn't it just sex?

 

Now I might be weird for saying this but is romance the same as sex?

 

In Mass Effect, you pick your mate and have a fling before you go off to certain death sort of mission (stopping Saren).  But the same thing happens in ME2 and3.  Is that really romance or just f#ck buddies on a ship? 

 

My point is you would think toward the end of a trilogy, your character and said mate would be a little more than just F... buddies. 

 

So I would like to see something more meaningful in this department in the next game.

 

Would yall?

 

Well my Shepard had two whole games of build up to a romantic relationship, so it was plenty meaningful. Really the only ME romance I would call just a fling would be Jacob's. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I still can't decide between having characters who have a more fixed identity (with a fixed sexuality) versus having player-sexual romances. Frankly, I think having more fixed identities is better character writing, but player-sexual romances is a much more sensible game-design choice, as it removes artificial barriers from players being able to experience content how they want to. 

If we were talking about a dating sim game, I'd agree. But BioWare games aren't dating sims, though it seems people want them to be dating sims.

Personally I care more about proper writing, a good story, good plot and realistic and believable characters.

[In Exile]

If we were talking about a dating sim game, I'd agree. But BioWare games aren't dating sims, though it seems people want them to be dating sims.

Personally I care more about proper writing, a good story, good plot and realistic and believable characters.

 

I googled "dating sims" once to see if these comments were on the mark. And sweet Jesus. The world of weird and disturbing that you have to wade into when looking at a "dating sim"... Bioware could have all the romance content ever in their games, combined into one, and cut out all the dialogue and plot, and still create a better game that isn't viscerally disturbing.

 

Seriously. Fucked up doesn't even begin to describe what a SafeSearch ON google search will reveal. 

[KaiserShep]

I googled "dating sims" once to see if these comments were on the mark. And sweet Jesus. The world of weird and disturbing that you have to wade into when looking at a "dating sim"... Bioware could have all the romance content ever in their games, combined into one, and cut out all the dialogue and plot, and still create a better game that isn't viscerally disturbing.

 

Seriously. Fucked up doesn't even begin to describe what a SafeSearch ON google search will reveal. 

 

Yeah, if you think BioWare's games are anywhere near what you'd find in the world of actual dating sims, needless to say you don't know jack. 

 

[Jester]

The problem with Anders flirting with you, is not that he flirts, but that the game doesn't give you the option to say you're not interested in a polite way.

The only way to decline his advances is to be rude to him which nets 15 or 10 rivalry. 

The other 2 options are heart options. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I googled "dating sims" once to see if these comments were on the mark. And sweet Jesus. The world of weird and disturbing that you have to wade into when looking at a "dating sim"... Bioware could have all the romance content ever in their games, combined into one, and cut out all the dialogue and plot, and still create a better game that isn't viscerally disturbing.

 

Seriously. Fucked up doesn't even begin to describe what a SafeSearch ON google search will reveal. 

 

Aren't you exaggerating a little bit there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of dating sims. That was the entire point of my post to begin with. I DON'T think BioWare's games are dating sims nor do I want them to be. But with all the obsession over romances and romances options on the BSN I really get the feeling some people are definitely treating BioWare games as dating sims. I sometimes get the feeling that people only play these games to get their romantic/erotic fantasy wish-fulfillment. THAT I find disturbing.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Aren't you exaggerating a little bit there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of dating sims. That was the entire point of my post to begin with. I DON'T think BioWare's games are dating sims nor do I want them to be. But with all the obsession over romances and romances options on the BSN I really get the feeling some people are definitely treating BioWare games as dating sims. I sometimes get the feeling that people only play these games to get their romantic/erotic fantasy wish-fulfillment. THAT I find disturbing.

 

Romantic subplots have existed since people started recording fiction and what I find disturbing is that people are so obsessed with the fact that others enjoy getting to choose the romantic subplot within their game instead of having one forced upon them.

[Lady Artifice]

Aren't you exaggerating a little bit there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of dating sims. That was the entire point of my post to begin with. I DON'T think BioWare's games are dating sims nor do I want them to be. But with all the obsession over romances and romances options on the BSN I really get the feeling some people are definitely treating BioWare games as dating sims. I sometimes get the feeling that people only play these games to get their romantic/erotic fantasy wish-fulfillment. THAT I find disturbing.

 

You're certainly not alone in seeing it that way. In fact, this is an increasingly reliable rhetoric, to the point of being rather predictible. Almost every time I see people discussing romances, even if they're doing it really casually, I see someone come in to the discussion talking about how people are treating Bioware games as a dating sim. 

 

To me, it usually comes off as a bit snobbish, "Oh, look at those shallow, lonely romance fans. I bet they'd be happy if romance was all the game was about. I, on the other hand, actually care about proper writing and believable characters."

 

It's always with a finish like that, too. "Personally, I care about story/writing/plot/realism." Sometimes I read it in my head as Mr. Bottomtooth's (Family Guy) voice. Always that assumption that the people with an active interest in the romance arcs just can't possibly care about good writing, and plot, and characters as much as they do.

 

Well, here's the problem: a lot of us do. Writing, story, is my first obsession. It influences every aspect of my life, from my magazine subscriptions, the kind of classes I prioritize taking, my personal library, and where my mind wanders to during my free time. Stories are my first passion, and yet I love chatting about the romances. More importantly, I'm not alone. Lots of us who enjoy the romance content, and talking about the romance content, just might care just as much about good storytelling and plot as anyone does. So this nearly constant rhetoric, so often recited as though it's some new and deep philosophy, that suggests people who often talk about the romances don't care about quality writing usually comes off as passive aggressive and condescending to me.

[Thermopylae]

And if we're talking about real world statistics, how many real world soldiers look like Ashley? Young, pretty, feminine, and single?  Not a very large percentage, right?  But we are supposed to suspend disbelief in order to accept that the one random soldier who survives the attack on Eden Prime is a young, pretty, feminine, single woman. 

 

You know what?  I'm fine with that.  I accept it.  You know why?  Because it's a game and there's going to be suspension of belief happening.  I don't mind Ashley being the only survivor of her squad when, if we're going by real world demographics, she should have been a male and, likely, of average attractiveness.  Sure, it's possible that the lone survivor of an attack could look like Ashley, but isn't it also possible that there might be two options for gay males and lesbians, too?

 

What would be dark is if they had the story line where she survives because she is young, pretty and feminine.

Darkness there. 

 

Maybe a comparable organization to look at would be the "Israel Defence Force" (IDF, where have I heard that before?) and their composition of personell. The alliance does reflect a futuristic "space navy" like organization and such an organization would demonstrate considerable cultural change.

 

But of course the character is there for the player to bond with and within limited parameters that worked just fine for me at the time. Still each to their own, and the heart wants what the heart wants. And if their heart involves romance with a cricket with human proportions and underwear, well that is just jolly well interesting.

 

http://www.gamesrada...antic-barriers/

[Thermopylae]

In ME1 the default Shepards both had scars. As Anderson said "all soldiers have scars" but in ME2 they kind of dropped any sense of realism with Miranda basically fighting in her lingerie. That's fine though I don't necessarily want realism. I want an enjoyable game with interesting characters who will at times surprise me. We are paying for entertainment, not realism.

 

Again, ME2 is jolly good escapism for me and Miranda worked just fine for me as a character, with ambivalent feelings with regards to the character model and voice acting  based on Yvonne Strahovski. But given the kind of roles Strahovski had at the time, she was kind of appropriate as her TV roles (thriller/ action) did translate to the Miranda character. 

[The Twilight God]

And I'm tired of entitled fools who think EVERY game should cater to them. You obviously don't like gay people in your games (or in real life) so why not go and play almost ANY other game ever made. Bioware games make up less than 1% of the market so even if your wildly inaccurate figure was correct, we still wouldn't be over-represented. 
 
Bioware wants to be inclusive.
 
Deal with it.
 
And learn the difference between "their" and "there" you simple-minded bigot.

I wasn't aware that having an opinion on a subject that differed from your own makes me a bigot. What I stated stands true. There are plenty of unrepresented demographics so the idea of Bioware being "inclusive" is disingenuous. Clearly, you only care about your particular demographic, which is understandable, but the idea that if someone doesn't put your concerns first they dislike you as a human being seems like a petty grab for sympathy.

Reported.