2503 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Aren't you exaggerating a little bit there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of dating sims. That was the entire point of my post to begin with. I DON'T think BioWare's games are dating sims nor do I want them to be. But with all the obsession over romances and romances options on the BSN I really get the feeling some people are definitely treating BioWare games as dating sims. I sometimes get the feeling that people only play these games to get their romantic/erotic fantasy wish-fulfillment. THAT I find disturbing.

 

Not based on what google tells me. The stuff that comes up is - just based on youtube videos of gameplay - all kinds of screwed up. No mater how much people want dating sims, I can't imagine they want the weird games that come out of Japan. That's a genre all on its own. 

[HuldraDancer]

I googled "dating sims" once to see if these comments were on the mark. And sweet Jesus. The world of weird and disturbing that you have to wade into when looking at a "dating sim"... Bioware could have all the romance content ever in their games, combined into one, and cut out all the dialogue and plot, and still create a better game that isn't viscerally disturbing.

 

Seriously. Fucked up doesn't even begin to describe what a SafeSearch ON google search will reveal. 

 

I find this pretty funny if only for the fact that when I was in middle and high school I played a lot of dating sim type games and really only stumbled upon one or two that were on the 'Nope!' category the rest seemed pretty tame to me. Hmm maybe I just lucked out and found the mostly sweet/nice/not totally creepy ones. When I hear date sims I think of stuff like what Pacthesis makes which last time I checked wasn't in the f***ed up range (though it has been quite a few years admittedly). Almost makes me curious to see these other dating sims people mean when they talk about how screwed up they are, almost. 

[Shechinah]

I googled "dating sims" once to see if these comments were on the mark. And sweet Jesus. The world of weird and disturbing that you have to wade into when looking at a "dating sim"... Bioware could have all the romance content ever in their games, combined into one, and cut out all the dialogue and plot, and still create a better game that isn't viscerally disturbing.

 

Seriously. Fucked up doesn't even begin to describe what a SafeSearch ON google search will reveal. 

Let me introduce you to the wonderful, weird world of Hatoful Boyfriend storymode.

 

[PhroXenGold]

Dating sims are just like any other genre of media. There are the perfectly normal ones, there are the seriously wrong ones, and then there's stuff like Hatoful which simply defies catagorisation.

[Morty Smith]

Balance is noble goal. But it should first be reached in oneself.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Balance is noble goal. But it should first be reached in oneself.

Yeah, I've gotten that fortune cookie before too.

[WildOrchid]

You're certainly not alone in seeing it that way. In fact, this is an increasingly reliable rhetoric, to the point of being rather predictible. Almost every time I see people discussing romances, even if they're doing it really casually, I see someone come in to the discussion talking about how people are treating Bioware games as a dating sim. 

 

To me, it usually comes off as a bit snobbish, "Oh, look at those shallow, lonely romance fans. I bet they'd be happy if romance was all the game was about. I, on the other hand, actually care about proper writing and believable characters."

 

It's always with a finish like that, too. "Personally, I care about story/writing/plot/realism." Sometimes I read it in my head as Mr. Bottomjaw's (Family Guy) voice. Always that assumption that the people with an active interest in the romance arcs just can't possibly care about good writing, and plot, and characters as much as they do.

 

Well, here's the problem: a lot of us do. Writing, story, is my first obsession. It influences every aspect of my life, from my magazine subscriptions, the kind of classes I prioritize taking, my personal library, and where my mind wanders to during my free time. Stories are my first passion, and yet I love chatting about the romances. More importantly, I'm not alone. Lots of us who enjoy the romance content, and talking about the romance content, just might care just as much about good storytelling and plot as anyone does. So this nearly constant rhetoric, so often recited as though it's some new and deep philosophy, that suggests people who often talk about the romances don't care about quality writing usually comes off as passive aggressive and condescending to me.

 

Yet I didn't see any one of them calling out some fans of Witcher 3 with the dating sims bull, where people kept wanting Triss/Yennefer/Ciri (oh yeah, Ciri), Keira, etc etc etc and talking about romances in this game.

 

When it's about bioware games, you always see posts like this. As long it's about straight men only romances (like TW3), all is well huh?

[Dr. Rush]

If we were talking about a dating sim game, I'd agree. But BioWare games aren't dating sims, though it seems people want them to be dating sims.

Personally I care more about proper writing, a good story, good plot and realistic and believable characters.

 

I'm talking about a roleplaying game. Bioware is responsible for making the best game design choices possible. I'm not sure what you are trying to talk about with dating sims, that is not relevant.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Romances can be a part of the growth of a character, they can be used to further the story or to give someone more depth. And I love seeing that.

 

What I don't like are gratious, tacked on booty calls that have no impact on anything and only exist in the few conversations and cutscenes you share with your LI. DA:I was guilty of that.

 

But no matter what fans wish to see in upcoming games, I'm fairly sure we won't ever see a Hanar romance.

[MisterJB]

More importantly, will fraternization down the chain of command still be a thing?

[Schmonozov]

I'd rather they have no romances at all.

 

If they insist on having them the best choice would probably be to make every romanceable character available to everyone. If this doesn't happen in the name of ''realism'' then why is there such an absurd proportion of non-hetero characters in the world?

 

I personally see no problem with this approach, it's a win-win for everyone that are interested in the romance part of the game.

[FKA_Servo]

More importantly, will fraternization down the chain of command still be a thing?

 

I kinda hope we're not military this time around.

[daveliam]

If this doesn't happen in the name of ''realism'' then why is there such an absurd proportion of non-hetero characters in the world?

 

LOL.  "Absurd proportion of non-hetero characters in the world".......

[The Elder King]

More importantly, will fraternization down the chain of command still be a thing?

Probably.

[SardaukarElite]

More importantly, will fraternization down the chain of command still be a thing?

 

Andromeda needs to have a fairer proportion of cross and up chain fraternization.

 

 

I kinda hope we're not military this time around.

 

I do as well, though I'm not holding my breath.

[Lady Artifice]

More importantly, will fraternization down the chain of command still be a thing?

 

I'm also hoping that they might have something similar to some of the options in DAI. Cullen, Josephine, and Cassandra do end up taking instruction from the Inquisitor, but it's not really a straightforward example of hitting on a subordinate, which was nice. 

[OhNoWhyHow]

To be fair, not all of the frustration around the Anders situation was about his forwardness toward mhawke. Some if it was about the rivalry points you gain as a result. And there's the issue that he seems completely oblivious to the possibility that a hawke of either gender might have an incompatible orientation.

Personally, I think it kind of works for him. He's got the irrational possessed mage thing going. Like a spirit, no concept of giving it time. He wants a confirmation of interest now. If you turn him down, and then try to flirt later, he'll then turn you down in response.

I'd love for them to change their minds about the player always needing to make the first move from now on thing. Flirtatious companions are fun.

 

10 rivalry points is just a drop in the bucket.  You can easily make this up and more in 1 mission.  Also, there is the option to just playfully flirt and then never follow up.  This gives 0 rivalry points and also doesn't trigger the romance.

 

All in all, it's a silly thing to get worked up over.

[Schmonozov]

LOL.  "Absurd proportion of non-hetero characters in the world".......

? I don't even know why im posting here as all you get is some snark from some delusional SJW, I was just proposing a solution that would please everyone. My point is not having every romanceable character be ''player-sexual'' because of realism makes no sense.

[OhNoWhyHow]

Not based on what google tells me. The stuff that comes up is - just based on youtube videos of gameplay - all kinds of screwed up. No mater how much people want dating sims, I can't imagine they want the weird games that come out of Japan. That's a genre all on its own. 

 

There's also one based on pigeons if I remember right.  Oh yea, here you go.

 

*Edit*  Nvm.  I see somebody else already posted it.

[RevilFox]

10 rivalry points is just a drop in the bucket.  You can easily make this up and more in 1 mission.  Also, there is the option to just playfully flirt and then never follow up.  This gives 0 rivalry points and also doesn't trigger the romance.

 

All in all, it's a silly thing to get worked up over.

Yeah, I always read that as him being hurt and/or ashamed about the situation, but it's not like Rivalry points were really a negative thing, or that you couldn't make it up in other ways. I think I'm one of the few people that likes that you got rivalry points for that. It made the interaction feel way more real.

[Lady Artifice]

10 rivalry points is just a drop in the bucket. You can easily make this up and more in 1 mission. Also, there is the option to just playfully flirt and then never follow up. This gives 0 rivalry points and also doesn't trigger the romance.

All in all, it's a silly thing to get worked up over.

My point had more to do with the fact that not everyone who criticizes the scene is getting worked up in the first place.

I'm in the camp that thinks Hawke probably should have had one or two alternate refusal dialogue options, something gentler or something for a Hawke of either sex to say that they aren't interested in men, even if that still were to net rivalry. That doesn't necessarily mean that I care a great deal, just that I understand some of the criticism.

Yeah, I always read that as him being hurt and/or ashamed about the situation, but it's not like Rivalry points were really a negative thing, or that you couldn't make it up in other ways. I think I'm one of the few people that likes that you got rivalry points for that. It made the interaction feel way more real.

I personally liked that he reacts that way as well. I really do think that it works for him. If anything, it's how limited Hawke's dialogue options were that I'd take issue with.

[mopotter]

Is romance really the best word to use for DA/ME games?  Isn't it just sex?

 

Now I might be weird for saying this but is romance the same as sex?

 

In Mass Effect, you pick your mate and have a fling before you go off to certain death sort of mission (stopping Saren).  But the same thing happens in ME2 and3.  Is that really romance or just f#ck buddies on a ship? 

 

My point is you would think toward the end of a trilogy, your character and said mate would be a little more than just F... buddies. 

 

So I would like to see something more meaningful in this department in the next game.

 

Would yall?

Not sure what you mean by more meaningful.  And I do think romance can definitely include sex, or not, depending on how it's written and you don't always need a long time to know someone is important to you.  

 

For the most part, I enjoyed most of the relationships in the series.  Especially ME1.  Everything about the bedroom scene was pretty near perfect.    Lights, music, yep, very romantic and you could say you wanted to wait till after the mission if you wanted to.  

 

 ME2 seemed to have both the romance and the "lets have sex before we die feel"  Jack with paragon Shepard was great, much better than I had expected.  And Garrus was a friend from ME1 so that romance was rather sweet, plus you could decide to be best friends who blow things up which always made me laugh.  I only found the relationship with Miranda to be a bit "we may die" feeling but there are lots of others who saw something I didn't.    

 

ME3, needed work.  I liked the Kaidan romance since it was carried over and I adored the comment he makes about waking him up before you leave next time.  The ME2 romances pretty much got left out, unless it was Garrus or Tali,  and so yes, I would like any of the romance options in ME4 to be complete.  

 

DAI seems to be doing this pretty well.  I didn't hate any of them, and my elf mage is planning on finding Solas so it works for me.

 

Past BioWare games have done a pretty good job with the romance mixture for me anyway, Having one game instead of a series,  it usually feels like a longer time has gone by and in DAO you could decide when you wanted to "share your tent" so never felt rushed and you could decide if it was going to be serious or not.  

 

However, in DAO I really disliked that, unless you were a guy romancing Morrigan, you are stuck watching Alistair crawling to her.  That should never ever happen again.      

 

Probably lost track of your original comment.  romance can definitely include sex, or not, depending on how it's written and you don't always need a long time to know someone is important to you.  

[WildOrchid]

? I don't even know why im posting here as all you get is some snark from some delusional SJW, I was just proposing a solution that would please everyone. My point is not having every romanceable character be ''player-sexual'' because of realism makes no sense.

 

Gee, you people sure do love that "sjw" word a lot....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Is romance really the best word to use for DA/ME games?  Isn't it just sex?

 

Now I might be weird for saying this but is romance the same as sex?

 

In Mass Effect, you pick your mate and have a fling before you go off to certain death sort of mission (stopping Saren).  But the same thing happens in ME2 and3.  Is that really romance or just f#ck buddies on a ship? 

 

My point is you would think toward the end of a trilogy, your character and said mate would be a little more than just F... buddies. 

 

So I would like to see something more meaningful in this department in the next game.

 

Would yall?

Yes. One reason I love romances like Josephine and even Kelly is because it isn't all just leading to sleeping together. Instead the romance subplot focuses on the romance side of the relationship. 

[Panda]

? I don't even know why im posting here as all you get is some snark from some delusional SJW, I was just proposing a solution that would please everyone. My point is not having every romanceable character be ''player-sexual'' because of realism makes no sense.

 

Calling people delusional SJWs most likely won't make discussion with them anymore pleasant to you or anyone.

 

Playersexuality is quite talked Bioware-wise and general consensus seem to be that players don't like it much. They want to see characters with different sexualities in the game and feel more like they are real persons and real persons do have sexuality. At least DA devs seem to be in same line. Personally I wouldn't hate playersexuality, but I still prefer set sexualities in the game. 2/2/2 system would be best in my opinion.