Actually you can in fact construe it as unfair. It's rather simple.
> overwhelming majority of people are straight.
> makes no sense for there to be only as many possible straight LIs as gay given the previous fact
> should be far more of them
2.5 billion people are either Chinese or from India, yet I don't think you'd be so adamant on having them represented proportionally in ME:A.
Actually you can in fact construe it as unfair. It's rather simple.
> overwhelming majority of people are straight.
> makes no sense for there to be only as many possible straight LIs as gay given the previous fact
> should be far more of them
I don't think there is need to go statistical. Even less so when large portion of squadmates and LI's are aliens.
Games are made for players and players need choices. When you sit in front of your tv or PC playing the game it shouldn't matter if you are straight or not or if your character is or not. You should have options in RPG to roleplay. That's fairness, not making game with statistics.
Are we back to the demographics argument again? The proportional representation of real life demographics is thrown out the window in almost every video game. Why draw the line here? Because you want more for you "me, me, me" because you're used to always getting more. You are entitled and deluded if you think that the "average gamer" is straight, white and male. The vast majority of gamers are not all three of these things.
@ Rubios
Your 'anonymous' surveys are so completely flawed in this context that I can't believe that people continue to trot them out in this conversation.
If you were born in a society in which homosexuality is (at best) marginalized or (at worst) criminalized/persecuted and are in a family in which you are told that it's wrong, there are plenty of reasons why you'd lie about your sexuality on an 'anonymous' survey. To suggest otherwise is to completely ignore hundreds of years of human culture.
Your '2-5%' (which is actually 2-10%) results are the bottom of the range. It represents the LGBT people who are willing to self identify as such in a survey. Basically, at least 2-10% of the population is LGBT. The actual percentage is clearly higher for the reasons that I've stated. Do we know how much higher? No, we don't. The fact that sexuality wasn't even included on US census surveys in any fashion until 2010 is telling. And, in 2010, the only way one could identify as LGBT was if you were in a same sex marriage. Single gays were excluded from official records. But even the studies that you use cite the limitations of their data against being used exactly how you are using them. One thing that we do know: The % of self-identifying LGBT people is increasing over time. My theory on this (which isn't terrible radical) is that this is related to the fact that homosexuality isn't persecuted in many places anymore, allowing people to feel more comfortable with openly identifying as LGBT. Basically, it supports the idea that the low numbers in those surveys are skewed because of a self-reporting bias.
@ Rubios
Your 'anonymous' surveys are so completely flawed in this context that I can't believe that people continue to trot them out in this conversation.
If you were born in a society in which homosexuality is (at best) marginalized or (at worst) criminalized/persecuted and are in a family in which you are told that it's wrong, there are plenty of reasons why you'd lie about your sexuality on an 'anonymous' survey. To suggest otherwise is to completely ignore hundreds of years of human culture.
Your '2-5%' (which is actually 2-10%) results are the bottom of the range. It represents the LGBT people who are willing to self identify as such in a survey. Basically, at least 2-10% of the population is LGBT. The actual percentage is clearly higher for the reasons that I've stated. Do we know how much higher? No, we don't. The fact that sexuality wasn't even included on US census surveys in any fashion until 2010 is telling. And, in 2010, the only way one could identify as LGBT was if you were in a same sex marriage. Single gays were excluded from official records. But even the studies that you use cite the limitations of their data against being used exactly how you are using them. One thing that we do know: The % of self-identifying LGBT people is increasing over time. My theory on this (which isn't terrible radical) is that this is related to the fact that homosexuality isn't persecuted in many places anymore, allowing people to feel more comfortable with openly identifying as LGBT. Basically, it supports the idea that the low numbers in those surveys are skewed because of a self-reporting bias.
There's also the matter of definitions.
If you have two scales like these...
(intimate contact with a woman is disgusting) 0-1-2-3-4-5 (don't care one way or another) -6-7-8-9-10 (intimate contact with women is strongly desired)
(intimate contact with a man is disgusting) 0-1-2-3-4-5 (don't care one way or another) -6-7-8-9-10 (intimate contact with men is strongly desired)
...then a man would need to score something like 6+ on the woman scale and less than 5 on the man scale to be straight. Which is where many are.
Sexuality is rarely clear cut and simple. Not only is it a somewhat fluid thing from the beginning, your preferences can change over time. That doesn't mean your orientation will change but if you were already leaning towards something, you might make the step then.
I've read surveys and studies that talk about people who identify as straight but still feel sexually attracted to their own gender. One survey claimed up to 19% of the women asked find other women attractive. That doesn't mean they ever acted on it but they have bisexual or even homosexual tendencies.
As daveliam pointed out, the current official numbers are very flawed. Most of these studies were conducted in the USA, which is not exactly a tolerant country, so I doubt every single person asked answered honestly. Studies from other countries (I found several in Germany) usually have higher numbers, although they still do not represent the truth. As open as we are here, our ruling party is still opposed to gay marriage and older generations still struggle with the concept.
Sexuality is rarely clear cut and simple. Not only is it a somewhat fluid thing from the beginning, your preferences can change over time.
For some people is clear as a day and doesn't change.
I know for sure that my preference won't change, ever.
For some people is clear as a day and doesn't change.
I know for sure that my preference won't change, ever.
Yes. With that I wasn't just talking about orientation though. You'll always be lesbian but things can and will change within your orientation. Maybe not by a lot, but no one remains static. Probably bad example: You don't have the same favourite food for all your life either but that doesn't mean you stop being a vegetarian.
Yes. With that I wasn't just talking about orientation though. You'll always be lesbian but things can and will change within your orientation. Maybe not by a lot, but no one remains static. Probably bad example: You don't have the same favourite food for all your life either but that doesn't mean you stop being a vegetarian.
Just to clarify, what you're saying is that someone who is a lesbian will always be a lesbian, but they might change from liking blonds with glasses to redheads with perfect vision as a preference?
Just to clarify, what you're saying is that someone who is a lesbian will always be a lesbian, but they might change from liking blonds with glasses to redheads with perfect vision as a preference?
I wish I was better at translating my thoughts into writing. 
Lesbian is a very general description for something that can be quite complex, which is true for every other orientation, too.
It is also not absolute by definition, that depends on the woman in question. Some are firmly in the "women only, forever" camp, others are closer to being sexually attracted to men, too. Clarification: Many people are attracted to persons outside their own orientation but often don't realize it or won't admit to it. It usually isn't important because it has no impact on them.
We change over time. The 18 year old you is probably a different person than the you now. Some things stay the same, some things change completely. If you were already leaning towards another orientation (usually bisexual) then you might find yourself attracted to a person of a different gender as you get older.
I know of one lesbian woman who fell in love with a man and married him. She still identifies as lesbian, with her husband being the sole exception. She's not attracted to any other man but still loves the ladies.
That's just one example of the complexity. I've talked with a couple hundred lesbian and bisexual women... I feel it would be wrong to say "a lesbian will always be a lesbian" but pending psychological trauma orientations usually expand, become more broad... instead of narrowing down. (The "You'll always be a lesbian" was directed at WildOrchid in particular.)
For the most people orientation doesn't change. What changes are the preferences. Preferences can be about certain looks, certain personality traits and sexual, too. That's actually a rather big topic in itself and I'm not qualified to talk about it nor do my personal experiences constitute a large enough sample size to be representative.
Keep in mind that we are attracted to persons, not genders. No one is attracted to every woman or every man.
To get this derailed thread back on topic:
While the vast majority of people worldwide is indeed hetero the boundaries aren't as clear cut as most people believe. There are overlaps, there are fluid areas...
... and in any case, romance options shouldn't be demographic. Otherwise half of them would be for hetero asians.
To repeat myself: We shouldn't forget that people like to play out different roles. There are many straight guys who play lesbian romances and many straight women who play gay romances. Those are part of the demographic as well and with that it makes more sense to treat every option equally because you're still appealing to the majority of people.
when your preference change you are Bi ...
Lesbian like womens only . Simple as that....
If someone like to love a man and wanna stick to be called lesbian....well they arent .
A woman that like women end up in love with a man, is simply a bisexual woman with a preference for girls. She still prefer ladyes in general, but love her man and is attrached to him. But she isn't lesbian.
2.5 billion people are either Chinese or from India, yet I don't think you'd be so adamant on having them represented proportionally in ME:A.
That's an easy one.
Is the game's setting styled after China? If so, yes, make all the characters Chinese. If not, don't.
That's an easy one.
Is the game's setting styled after China? If so, yes, make all the characters Chinese. If not, don't.
We are in space. It isn't styled after any particular human ethnicity.
@Daemion
I'm attracted to women sexually and romantically.... ofc personality plays a role but to some people, the sex/gender still matters the most. A straight person won't go with someone of the same sex, no matter how 'attractive' his/her personality is, they'll still choose the opposite gender. Same for gay paople.
To me, no matter how good a man can be, I'll still go for women and always women.
Yep, I know.
What I meant to say is that you aren't attracted to the entire gender, just certain persons out of it.
Yep, I know.
What I meant to say is that you aren't attracted to the entire gender, just certain persons out of it.
We are in space. It isn't styled after any particular human ethnicity.
True, but the game is conceived by a western development studio and aimed mainly at a western audience. The setting of Mass Effect is not even remotely meant to be a quasi realistic simulation of the future but simply product of writer's imagination, and those writers are westerners who have experienced western society all their live, that is going to affect their creative decisions for obvious reasons.
True, but the game is conceived by a western development studio and aimed mainly at a western audience. The setting of Mass Effect is not even remotely meant to be a quasi realistic simulation of the future but simply product of writer's imagination, and those writers are westerners who have experienced western society all their live, that is going to affect their creative decisions for obvious reasons.
That's also true, but discussion was about going world's demographics in terms of LI's and that would imply also other things than having majority LI's being heterosexual.
That's also true, but discussion was about going world's demographics in terms of LI's and that would imply also other things than having majority LI's being heterosexual.
Indeed, but once again I think it's important to emphasize on the relation between the demografics and werstern society, where it generally holds up that a good majority of the people are white and hetrosexual.
Indeed, but once again I think it's important to emphasize on the relation between the demographics and western society, where it generally holds up that a good majority of the people are white and heterosexual.
Sure but that doesn't matter when the game depicts a sci-fi or fantasy scenario. It's not like we have aliens in real life. It is also a roleplaying game, so offering options that we usually do not have in real life (like playing as the opposite gender) could be beneficial.
Sure but that doesn't matter when the game depicts a sci-fi or fantasy scenario. It's not like we have aliens in real life. It is also a roleplaying game, so offering options that we usually do not have in real life (like playing as the opposite gender) could be beneficial.
Sure is, i'm not saying Mass Effect is a realistic future depiction of western society, but I am saying that the writers' creative decision are going to be affected by their experiences from contemporary western society, as such you're going to see things like a good deal of main cast being of white ethnicity.
If you were born in a society in which homosexuality is (at best) marginalized or (at worst) criminalized/persecuted and are in a family in which you are told that it's wrong, there are plenty of reasons why you'd lie about your sexuality on an 'anonymous' survey. To suggest otherwise is to completely ignore hundreds of years of human culture.
That's absolutely true, conversely there should no reason for adult people to lie about their sexuality if they lived in a society where equal rights are the status quo, a generation has already grown up taking them for granted and the vast majority of people (94% to be precise) has no problem with it, even the conservative parties have plenty of gay politicians around.
And yet the numbers that you see in independent and government surveys are not significantly different, they're a bit higher but absolutely nowhere near that ridiculous 10% some people like to thrown around (probably after reading some Kinsey pseudoscience).
Gay marriages are also a ~2% of the total, and those figures are official, even after adjusting for the fact that for some reason homosexual couples are less likely to marry the numbers don't change a whole lot.
I really don't get this obsession with trying to make sexual minorities bigger than they actually are, surely it would be nice to have a bigger dating pool but lying to ourselves about it won't make any bigger, and the whole numbers don't matter because people are oppressed thing stops making any sense when people are not oppressed anymore.
Well, I would jump into the fray about eqaul rights/status quo/demographics and all, but instead, here's a video.
That's absolutely true, conversely there should no reason for adult people to lie about their sexuality if they lived in a society where equal rights are the status quo, a generation has already grown up taking them for granted and the vast majority of people (94% to be precise) has no problem with it, even the conservative parties have plenty of gay politicians around.
And yet the numbers that you see in independent and government surveys are not significantly different, they're a bit higher but absolutely nowhere near that ridiculous 10% some people like to thrown around (probably after reading some Kinsey pseudoscience).
Gay marriages are also a ~2% of the total, and those figures are official, even after adjusting for the fact that for some reason homosexual couples are less likely to marry the numbers don't change a whole lot.
I really don't get this obsession with trying to make sexual minorities bigger than they actually are, surely it would be nice to have a bigger dating pool but lying to ourselves about it won't make any bigger, and the whole numbers don't matter because people are oppressed thing stops making any sense when people are not oppressed anymore.
Uh...I think that maybe you should read that study you linked to again. You seem to have mixed up what "morally acceptable" and "morally unacceptable" mean.
"Half or more in most of the 40 nations polled say that homosexuality is unacceptable. Nine-in-ten or more hold this view in seven nations."
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