2503 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

if they lived in a society where equal rights are the status quo.

 

when people are not oppressed anymore.

 

Too bad that there isn't country on earth at the moment where this would be the case.

 

Except they are.

[Rannik]

Too bad that there isn't country on earth at the moment where this would be the case.

It is in Spain, which is what I can and was speaking for, and pretty much all the political spectrum (including conservatives) are cool with it.

And I'd assume a decade was more than enough time for The Netherlands, Belgium or Canada as well.
 

Except they are.

Nah, thankfully we're not.

[Panda]

It is in Spain, which is what I can speak for, equal rights are not up for debate nor ever will be again since the majority of conservative voters are for them.
And I'd assume a decade was more than enough time for The Netherlands, Belgium or Canada as well.


Nah, we're not.

I'm from Finland myself. One of most liberal countries there is, heck we almost got gay president in last election. I see homophobia and discrimination daily in this country. Also internet is good indicator as well on what going on globally and what people are anonymously thinking. And it often isn't pretty. There might be many countries with same legal rights- but the discrimination and social stigma still is there. Edited.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ugh

[daveliam]

@ Rubios

 

The fact remains that self-reporting surveys are inherently biased.  Add to that the fact that you are asking people to self-identify for a historically and contemporarily stigmatized group and there is no way that you can logically assume that the numbers (which do go up to 10% in some cases - France comes to mind) are accurate in anyway.  The studies themselves even account for this in the description of limitations.  You want to use this data to mean something that it's not meant to mean.

 

Look, am I one of the crazies who think that this means that LGBT make up the majority?  No.  It's clear that LGBT people are still a minority by a great deal.  But the 2-3% figures that are thrown around (and used as justification for why content shouldn't be created for us) are just silly and illogical to use.  LGBT are at least 2-10% of the population.  That's the minimum number and we do not have any data to represent the maximum number.  At least 2-10% depending on the study that you look at. 

[TheJediSaint]

It's never a good sign when people start throwing statistics at each other.

[Feybrad]

Ugh

 

Yes.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes.

Hence why I don't bother with threads about romance.

"It isn't fair."

"It is fair!"

"No it ain't!"

"Yes it is!"

Back and forth forever.

[Abraham_uk]

I don't mind how many options there are as long as the options are more meaningful.

 

Here are a few things I have in mind:

 

Pointless conversations about nothing (which is what real life couples do. A lot!)

Laughing a lot even when no jokes have been made (again, real life couples do this. A lot!)

Lots and lots of banter

Lots of teasing

Lots of sweet talking

Commenting and gossiping about stuff happening

Talking about missions

Talking about the future

A slow progression from "just friends" to "good friends" to "almost in a relationship" to "we're in a relationship" to "let it be known we're in a relationship".

Much longer build up to the sex act. Oh and no fade to black! So longer build up but also better pay off.

 

All of the above could be pretty cringe worthy in the hands of a bad writer. However those are my 2 cents.

[Rannik]

Marriage numbers are not biased, and asking randomly selected homosexual couples if they're married will not give you biased answers either.
 
Knowing how less likely gay couples are to marry can adjust the marriage figures, the only possible bias you have is gay people being more or less likely to be single and even that should be reasonably easy to account for.
 
When you have 1.72% of gay marriages you won't get anything close to a 10% even if gays 30% less likely to marry or more likely to be single, that is insane.
 
Note that I'm not saying X content should not be available to Y people because they only represent a Z% of the players, but some of the numbers thrown around are just ridiculous and acknowledging that the vast majority of players will probably not be able to enjoy that content even though it takes the same resources to create is completely a reasonable stance regardless of how anyone else would feel about it.

[AlanC9]

2.5 billion people are either Chinese or from India, yet I don't think you'd be so adamant on having them represented proportionally in ME:A.

Actually... maybe we should start making an issue out of this. Enough with the white people, already.

[daveliam]

Except that Bioware has released data that shows that s/s romances are, in some cases, played by 20% of the players.  So, either there are waaaaay more gay people playing these games than there are in the general population or the audience for these romances are not just gay people (*hint:  it's the latter*).

 

I'm not even sure what your point is at this point.  If you don't want to reduce the amount of options for LGBT PCs, then what's your point?  Are you trying to argue from some 'pure data' standpoint?  Because if you are, you are still not representing data appropriately (if you don't think gay marriage data is biased, then I don't even know where to begin).  Seriously, I don't get it.  Are you just annoyed at that one person several days ago who was trying to say that LGBT people are the majority (and was soundly disagreed with by everyone)?  Because no one else is saying that. 

[Rannik]

How can the marriage numbers be biased? 

 

Absolutely all marriages (both civil and religious) are registered and it comes directly from the government.

[TheJediSaint]

Except that Bioware has released data that shows that s/s romances are, in some cases, played by 20% of the players.  So, either there are waaaaay more gay people playing these games than there are in the general population or the audience for these romances are not just gay people (*hint:  it's the latter*).

 

I'm not even sure what your point is at this point.  If you don't want to reduce the amount of options for LGBT PCs, then what's your point?  Are you trying to argue from some 'pure data' standpoint?  Because if you are, you are still not representing data appropriately (if you don't think gay marriage data is biased, then I don't even know where to begin).  Seriously, I don't get it.  Are you just annoyed at that one person several days ago who was trying to say that LGBT people are the majority (and was soundly disagreed with by everyone)?  Because no one else is saying that. 

Or to put it another way, gay content isn't just for gay people.

[RevilFox]

How can the marriage numbers be biased? 

 

Absolutely all marriages (both civil and religious) are registered and it comes directly from the government.

I dunno, maybe the fact that gay marriage, or something like gay marriage, is still not actually legal in most of the world? In the US it was declared legal nationally literally yesterday. 

 

Edit: And a special shout out to the countries where it's illegal to just be gay. Some fun names on that list.

[daveliam]

@ Rubios

 

Honestly, I'm getting tired of the stats talk so, I'm not engaging in this anymore because it's not going anywhere.  I'll say this:  your argument assumes that all marriages (and the groups of people applying for them) are even.  There is not a single country where s/s marriage has been around long enough for everyone in the society to have been raised with them as an option.  Until that happens, you are comparing apples and oranges:  group a includes people who have been told from birth that marriage is normal and a thing to strive for and, at least on the grounds of their sexuality, won't be persecuted in anyway; group b includes people who were told from birth that marriage is an abomination and they will go to hell for it and, until recently, were legally refused the ability to get married and, once they do get married, still face societal discrimination for their sexuality.  Those two groups are not the same.  It is conceivable that a fair number people in group b might not be rushing to the altars, right?  I know many, many gay people who are thrilled that there is gay marriage in the US, but have no desire to get married themselves because of everything that I mentioned.  They are just not the same populations of people so comparing marriage rates is flawed from the jump.

 

@TheJediSaint

 

Exactly.  And vice versa.  I thoroughly enjoyed my Lady Cadash/Blackwall play through in DA: I, thank you very much!

[TheJediSaint]

I dunno, maybe the fact that gay marriage, or something like gay marriage, is still not actually legal in most of the world? In the US it was declared legal nationally literally yesterday. 

Technically, it was made illegal to deny marriage to people based on their sexuality because it violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.

 

But that's a pedantic point. 

[Rannik]

Or to put it another way, gay content isn't just for gay people.

 
I'd say it's mostly because gay people is more likely to play Bioware games, precisely because of that content.
 
The only place where I've seen as much gay people as in BSN is the theme park / rollercoaster communities (which are the real mistery...)
 

I know many, many gay people who are thrilled that there is gay marriage in the US, but have no desire to get married themselves because of everything that I mentioned.  They are just not the same populations of people so comparing marriage rates is flawed from the jump.

The marriage figures are from Spain, where the generation that is currently marrying in their 20's grew up with equal rights, they were kids when these things were being discussed. You conveniently ignored the second part too, where I address the fact that gay couples are indeed less likely to marry for diverse reasons.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

I hope they don't make everyone bisexual.. Have gay romances and straight romances. I just think you'll get more quality for each character, if they don't have to write two entire romances for each gender, unless they just do a copy and paste on dialog for most of it.

[Abraham_uk]

BioWare is under no moral or legal obligation to include these options.

That fact that BioWare chooses to provide diversity in terms of different sexualities is refreshing.

I hope BioWare continues, but if they stop I won't kick a fuss.

 

I'll keep waving the carrot in the hope they continue.

I've lost my figurative stick though.

[Lady Artifice]

Common guys and gals, there is no need to discuss the percentage of sexuality among the population.

Lets go back talking about the romance you want instead.
Now I really want a Asari with the face and voice of Natalie Dormer (thanks Natashina), maybe a Medic (class Sentinel).

 

Any preferences about personality? 

[daveliam]

The marriage figures are from Spain, where the generation that is currently marrying in their 20's grew up with equal rights, they were kids when these things were being discussed. You conveniently ignored the second part too, where I address the fact that gay couples are indeed less likely to marry for diverse reasons.

 

Same sex marriage has only been legal in Spain for 10 years.  That means that the vast majority of people in Spain who are getting married now were at least 8-10 years old when it became legal.  It was illegal to even be gay until 35 years ago (meaning that it was criminal when most of the current generation's parents were alive).  And, currently, only about 60% of the country supports gay marriage and less than half support adoption by same sex couples.  There is clearly still societal stigma to homosexuality in Spain which could affect how gay people will act.

 

Also, if you recognize that gay couples are less likely to marry for diverse reasons, then why did you bring up same sex marriage rates as evidence to the % of total LGBT people?  You clearly acknowledge that the number is lower than the actual %, right?  Plus, you aren't accounting for the fact that a fair amount of bisexual and transgender people marry opposite sex partners.  So gay marriage numbers are very weak evidence for the statistics that you brought up.

[Boost32]

Any preferences about personality?

Matron stage, with a sarcastic side (but not overused), level headed, more mature and refined, and like to drink (thats the more important).

[alienatedflea]

I'm from Finland myself. One of most liberal countries there is, heck we almost got gay president in last election. I see homophobia and discrimination daily in this country. Also internet is good indicator as well on what going on globally and what people are anonymously thinking. And it often isn't pretty. There might be many countries with same legal rights- but the discrimination and social stigma still is there. Edited.

 

trolling on the Internet is NOT a good indicator of what people globally are thinking...most people say and do a lot of things on the net that they would never do in public/real world.  You know this right?
 

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

As long as I'm not thinking I'm having a bro moment with one of my squad mates, and he tries to kiss me. I'm good. Man, i couldn't talk to the guy that flew the small ship in 3 cause I was afraid of choosing the wrong dialog option lmfao