2503 réponses à ce sujet

[Abelas Forever!]

Jacob's isn't really tragic. It's just completely bad.

You are right. The romance isn't really tragic but the situation for Shepard is tragic.

[Abelas Forever!]

The problem with the same romances, is if we have the same team through out a series of games. Like say we have 7 crewmates like the survey said. We could  get 4 ship romances and 2 NPCs romances and 3 non romanceable crew +1 non romanceable NPC. Those NPCs stay on board, 3 of the crew can be switched out and any much disliked romance can maybe be switched with a better one in 2. Have all of them come back in 3.

 

A total of 10 to 12 characters in the 3rd game. Only have 1 or 2 non romanceable characters be a possibility to die and perhaps a romanceable one if you are continuing. I think what also hurt ME3 so much was the devs had no idea who was dead. Nearly everyone from 2 could die, half your crew from ME1 could die and from your crew that transported from 1 to 2, only 1 crew member from 1 could not be dead (Liara).

 

They put in resources for 2 of those characters to be good romances but could only give tokens to the others. Add in Sam and Steve, and their romance budget was thin as ice because who wants to put tons of effort in a character perhaps half your playerbase killed. I think Jacob and Thane were tragic partly due to them being the least romanced characters out of the 6. Kaiden and Ashley at least had a bit more resources but only I think because so many Sheps chose to go it alone and wait to be with their lover.

 

We gotta stop killing characters if we want them continued. But I think Bioware already has a clear idea because, out of the 8 romances, I think only 1 was killable (blackwall?) in DA:I

I agree that it's a good idea to stop killing the characters. Personally I don't like that much stories where people die. I guess it's because then they are dead. Their story has ended. But if a character is alive and maybe loses an honourable position in a company then their life continues and maybe some day they can get that position back or find some other job for example. Although I think it's a good idea that companions can die but maybe not so many.

 

I don't think it's possible to kill Blackwall. It seems that he might die but you don't actually see it or hear that he is actually dead.

[Boost32]

But if no one dies the enemy seems not only weak but incompetent, people dieyng in ME3 was a good thing.

[Master Warder Z_]

Jacob's isn't really tragic. It's just completely bad.

Thought it was funny myself

[The Elder King]

But if no one dies the enemy seems not only weak but incompetent, people dieyng in ME3 was a good thing.

ME3 is the end of a trilogy. It had more freedom in this regards.

Thought it was funny myself

I didn't think it was funny. I honestly don't care about Jacob, and I never romanced him, but they Did it because they it wouldn't raise many complaints since few people liked Jacob. They wouldn't dare doing so to, say, Liara, Garrus, Tali, Miranda.

[Boost32]

ME3 is the end of a trilogy. It had more freedom in this regards.

Look at the Suicide Mission, if no one dies it lost the meaning of Suicide Mission.
Squadmates should die for the enemy feel threatening.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Look at the Suicide Mission, if no one dies it lost the meaning of Suicide Mission.
Squadmates should die for the enemy feel threatening.

 

True... but... could you make a list of who dies? And then try to convince the fans of those characters?

[Boost32]

True... but... could you make a list of who dies? And then try to convince the fans of those characters?

Just go Games of Thrones style, there is no need to convince the fans, just do it in a believeble way.

[The Elder King]

Look at the Suicide Mission, if no one dies it lost the meaning of Suicide Mission.
Squadmates should die for the enemy feel threatening.

Well, nobody died on My first run, because it was clear What You should do. I have To be intentionally stupid to make someone die.
I Don't disagree with You (the SM is actually a letdown for this for me), I was just saying ME3 had more freedom.

[Boost32]

Well, nobody died on My first run, because it was clear What You should do. I have To be intentionally stupid to make someone die.
I Don't disagree with You (the SM is actually a letdown for this for me), I was just saying ME3 had more freedom.

The first ME had a death of one squadmate too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The first ME had a death of one squadmate too.

And it was stupid. There were logical ways that you could have saved both. 

[aoibhealfae]

Its a fridge trope. The only unnecessary stupid death in the trilogy was Jenkins. I would have preferred Ashley being the original Normandy team rather than having to rescue her on Eden Prime.

[Abelas Forever!]

But if no one dies the enemy seems not only weak but incompetent, people dieyng in ME3 was a good thing.

Death loses its meaning if it's used too much. When I watch Game of Thrones I expect the there will be deaths and I don't get too attached to the characters because I know that they can die. Enemy can be very powerful and use other methods in trying to defeat you like blackmailing your companions or kidnapping them. There is no need for the most of your grew to die so that the enemy will look powerful and compentent.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Its a fridge trope. The only unnecessary stupid death in the trilogy was Jenkins. I would have preferred Ashley being the original Normandy team rather than having to rescue her on Eden Prime.

 

I was always trying so hard to get her kicked off, but despite being in command you can't get rid of her. Virmire couldn't come soon enough. :>

 

Jenkins' death never made sense. He's wearing the same gear you do and your shields work just fine. Would have been better if he stepped on a landmine or something, then I could believe his death.

[Hellion Rex]

Look at the Suicide Mission, if no one dies it lost the meaning of Suicide Mission.
Squadmates should die for the enemy feel threatening.

Not really. It meant that you had spent ample time preparing for it. Making out alive with everyone by the skin of your teeth hardly makes it any less harrowing.

[daveliam]

Well, nobody died on My first run, because it was clear What You should do. I have To be intentionally stupid to make someone die.
I Don't disagree with You (the SM is actually a letdown for this for me), I was just saying ME3 had more freedom.

 

Yeah, I think that suicide mission was a great idea, but it really fell flat in practice.  Once it became clear that all I had to do was upgrade the Normandy and do all of the loyalty missions to ensure that everyone survives, it felt weak.  Basically for someone to die, I had to choose to ignore quests and upgrades knowing exactly which character would end up dying and when.  It felt artificial.  It would have been much more effective if there had been a randomized element to it.  Basically, you could choose to do everything "right", but there was still a chance that people would die.  Of course, some people would probably hate that, so I don't think they'll go that route.  I, personally, would really love it.  If I was playing and someone died who I really didn't want to die, I'd restart and try again and hope for a better outcome the next time. 

 

The first ME had a death of one squadmate too.

 

I actually prefer that they go this route with characters dying.  If it forces you to make a choice, then it doesn't feel like I'm choosing for someone to die.  Just choosing which person dies.  I actually also find it interesting when characters die, particularly when there are multiple characters who can die so that I can replay with different choices and see how the story shakes out differently with different characters.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yeah, I think that suicide mission was a great idea, but it really fell flat in practice.  Once it became clear that all I had to do was upgrade the Normandy and do all of the loyalty missions to ensure that everyone survives, it felt weak.  Basically for someone to die, I had to choose to ignore quests and upgrades knowing exactly which character would end up dying and when.  It felt artificial.  It would have been much more effective if there had been a randomized element to it.  Basically, you could choose to do everything "right", but there was still a chance that people would die.  Of course, some people would probably hate that, so I don't think they'll go that route.  I, personally, would really love it.  If I was playing and someone died who I really didn't want to die, I'd restart and try again and hope for a better outcome the next time. 

 

 

I actually prefer that they go this route with characters dying.  If it forces you to make a choice, then it doesn't feel like I'm choosing for someone to die.  Just choosing which person dies.  I actually also find it interesting when characters die, particularly when there are multiple characters who can die so that I can replay with different choices and see how the story shakes out differently with different characters.

 

The first time I played the Suicide Mission was two days after the game got released so I had no idea what would happen. It felt great. Also, everyone survived.

 

The thing is, it was never a suicide mission. Sure, TIM planned for it to be one because it had to succeed at any cost. But once you learned more about your enemy and stocked up on technology to counter them, it became something you could survive. By the time you went through the Omega-4 relay you had a reasonable chance of coming back.

 

Characters dying in itself is never interesting, it has to have purpose within the story. While I love the Song of Ice and Fire novels, after a while you don't really care about people dying anymore. It became normal because Martin rarely comes up with other consequences for ****** up. 

[The Elder King]

The first ME had a death of one squadmate too.

It's only One, and it Made VS fell in the same plot.
ME3 had one character At least dies in the genophage arc, and At least one in the quarian-geth arc, and At least one in the Citadel coup.

[Boost32]

It's only One, and it Made VS fell in the same plot.
ME3 had one character At least dies in the genophage arc, and At least one in the quarian-geth arc, and At least one in the Citadel coup.

And it was better because of this, losing someone that you like hurts.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And it was better because of this, losing someone that you like hurts.

I disagree. It was worse because of that. 

[Boost32]

I disagree. It was worse because of that.

It made our enemies feel like a real threat instead of only being there for you to kill, its ridiculous to think the Reapers are the end of our time when they dont hurt us. Look at the Suicide Mission, never fell like my team could die, instead everyone survived and I recued everyone who were kidnapped from the Normandy, its was all sunshine and rainbows, how is it possible? Talking the entire Collector's homeworld down without any casualty? If you like sunshine and rainbows good for you, but I like more realism in my games.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It made our enemies feel like a real threat instead of only being there for you to kill, its ridiculous to think the Reapers are the end of our time when they dont hurt us. Look at the Suicide Mission, never fell like my team could die, instead everyone survived and I recued everyone who were kidnapped from the Normandy, its was all sunshine and rainbows, how is it possible? Talking the entire Collector's homeworld down without any casualty? If you like sunshine and rainbows good for you, but I like more realism in my games.

It's possible because you made logical decisions. And how is it all sunshine and rainbows? Were we able to save all the colonists? No, we weren't able to save any of them. 

 

It isn't realism when the game shoehorns in deaths that can be avoided for drama's sake. In ME1 and ME3, there were ways we could have saved the characters who die from dying if we were able to be smart. Instead everyone becomes idiots during those scenes.

[In Exile]

Look at the Suicide Mission, if no one dies it lost the meaning of Suicide Mission.
Squadmates should die for the enemy feel threatening.

That never happens. The enemy just feels like it gets a contrived boost from the writers.

[In Exile]

Yeah, I think that suicide mission was a great idea, but it really fell flat in practice. Once it became clear that all I had to do was upgrade the Normandy and do all of the loyalty missions to ensure that everyone survives, it felt weak. Basically for someone to die, I had to choose to ignore quests and upgrades knowing exactly which character would end up dying and when. It felt artificial. It would have been much more effective if there had been a randomized element to it. Basically, you could choose to do everything "right", but there was still a chance that people would die. Of course, some people would probably hate that, so I don't think they'll go that route. I, personally, would really love it. If I was playing and someone died who I really didn't want to die, I'd restart and try again and hope for a better outcome the next time.


I actually prefer that they go this route with characters dying. If it forces you to make a choice, then it doesn't feel like I'm choosing for someone to die. Just choosing which person dies. I actually also find it interesting when characters die, particularly when there are multiple characters who can die so that I can replay with different choices and see how the story shakes out differently with different characters.

The RNG is exactly what would make it seem like contrived trolling. Yes, death in reality can be quite random - stray bullet and such. But games are comically contrived and our NPCs are bullet sponges that survive actual death multiple times. This one story death being super special just becomes Kai Leng on Thessia.

[The Elder King]

And it was better because of this, losing someone that you like hurts.

You do realize I'm merely debating about ME3 having more freedom in this department?
I'm Not Saying ME's choice is bad. I'm saying They can't make many in the first game of a series because it'd then limit What They can do with those characters (as VS treatment shown). It's easier to do them in a final game.