2503 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Yes, I think 4 Bisexual options are the best, and if not for the whole "playersexual" nonsense we may have gotten more of them. it means fewer romances that make some people happy, it allows for smaller crews, it also means despite fewer options there are still 2 romances for everyone. Also a number devs can handle, and can do the best with.

It's refreshing to see that I'm not the only one with this preference. The fewer romance arcs they write, the more content each can have, and the more integrated they can be with the overall plot.

It also means you're not gated out of any of the LIs provided. Hear that, Cassandra?

Representation is not a big deal to me, personally - and I think it can be satisfied with other NPCs. DAO gave us Wade-Herren and Branka-Hespith, although more representation of healthier relationships than the latter would be nice.
 

Everyone knows that DA2 was a bit rushed, but I feel the characters were a bit one dimensional compared to previous and later companions. That had nothing to do with how their romances were bisexual though. And everything to do with the fact the game came out really quick.

I think it was the nature of the beast that was DA2. The characters seemed more one dimensional because they were used to provide exposition on the whole 'Mages vs. Templars / Muggles' and 'Blood Mages vs. everyone' themes - and that got a bit overbearing at times.
 

So in general I feel 4 bi romances for small casts, and 2/2/2 for larger ones.

Works for me.

[Evamitchelle]

Right, Fenris! Why did I write Zevran? Oh, right... the threesome!

 

I was wrong and right at the same time. Score!

 

Isabela and Zevran also slept together in the past, around the time he killed her husband. 

[Hellion Rex]

It's refreshing to see that I'm not the only one with this preference. The fewer romance arcs they write, the more content each can have, and the more integrated they can be with the overall plot.

It also means you're not gated out of any of the LIs provided. Hear that, Cassandra?

Representation is not a big deal to me, personally - and I think it can be satisfied with other NPCs. DAO gave us Wade-Herren and Branka-Hespith, although more representation of healthier relationships than the latter would be nice.


I think it was the nature of the beast that was DA2. The characters seemed more one dimensional because they were used to provide exposition on the whole 'Mages vs. Templars / Muggles' and 'Blood Mages vs. everyone' themes - and that got a bit overbearing at times.


Works for me.

On Hespith and Branka, while it did end in tragedy, I actually really really loved Hespith's dialogue about Branka's fall. By far one of the most powerful passages I've heard in the Dragon Age series.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Oh you guys!  Use your imagination!  I mean, asari have sex telepathically, right?  And turians have boney plating.  And quarians are contained within suits but can just take a pill and make it all better.  It's the beauty of sci fi.  Again, I know it won't happen, but I think it would be great. 

To be honest, I really just want to see an unapologetically stereotypical super butch lesbian and I think a krogran could be a great way to do that.  I could just imagine the PC asking her about the genophage and her sexuality and her literally just laughing in his/her face and not dignifying it with a response.  I think Bioware is a bit intimidated to create a stereotypical butch lesbian because she'll be seen as a stereotype solely, but I think it would be great.  Like a Lea DeLaria esque butch gal. 

 

 

Agreed.  Bethany was suuuuuuuper bland.  At least Carver was interesting.  He was annoying, but interesting and had great character growth over the game.  Bethany started blandly vanilla and sweet and ended that exact same way.  She just never stood out for good or bad, to be honest.

 

 

There's alot to talk about in this post. 

 

First, Kaidan flat out flirts with you when he's in the hospital bed.  And, if I recall correctly, it happens without your initiating it which was a cause for complaints from many a straight guy when it came out.  He says, "<sexy chuckle> Are you flirting with me Shepard?"

 

Second, a bisexual person doesn't have to immediately express interest in both genders or have their bisexuality card revoked.  Fenris can be romanced by men and women.  And he'll sleep with Isabela if not romanced.  Anders can be romanced by men and women.  In either case, you can hear banter about how he's slept with Isabela, he expresses interest in women in DA: A, and, if you are male in DA2, he'll discuss his past with Karl.  I mean, those are examples of bisexual men. 

 

Not every bisexual man has to say:  "I have been with both men and women in the past" (a la Zevran, who, coincidentally, I think is the worst of the bisexual men because he was clearly written with a female audience in mind and the m/m stuff is added on and hidden behind multiple "Is it okay if I flirt with you?  Really?  Because if you say yes, gay stuff will happen?  You're sure that's cool?" dialogue options).  The only qualification for being bisexual is being able to be romanced by both a man and woman.  This concept of 'playersexuality' only exists in the fact that all LI's will sleep with a PC regardless of their looks, attitudes, and (for the most part) behaviors.  That's playersexuality.  Not a bisexual character.

 

I never saw it as flirting. I've always thought that was Kaidan being awkward as can be because Kaidan was always a little lacking in the charisma department. The whole hospital scene did seem like there was sexual tension, but all along I felt like it was just bad writing and that it wasn't what they were going for (and there's a lot of suspect writing in ME3, so it's no sole offender).

 

No, you're right that a bisexual person doesn't have to do that, but in the format of a game when people are opening up about who they are, what they like, who they like, etc. it's not an odd thing to come up. In-game, it's also a useful tool to outline the nature of potential romance arcs to the player.

 

But enough about that: I concede I am incorrect regarding DA2 because there's more to it than what I saw; I maintain that the ME romances are definitely tilted way too much towards Shepard than individual sexuality.

[FKA_Servo]

But enough about that: I concede I am incorrect regarding DA2 because there's more to it than what I saw; I maintain that the ME romances are definitely tilted way too much towards Shepard than individual sexuality.

 

Over the course of the trilogy, the scales were weighted so far in straight dude Shep's favor that I don't even know what to say.

 

I think it's just generally a mistake to look to ME for coherence and consistency in this department, period. Bioware was getting better at this stuff as it all played out, but in ME, their growing pains are on full display.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I never saw it as flirting. I've always thought that was Kaidan being awkward as can be because Kaidan was always a little lacking in the charisma department. The whole hospital scene did seem like there was sexual tension, but all along I felt like it was just bad writing and that it wasn't what they were going for (and there's a lot of suspect writing in ME3, so it's no sole offender).

 

No, you're right that a bisexual person doesn't have to do that, but in the format of a game when people are opening up about who they are, what they like, who they like, etc. it's not an odd thing to come up. In-game, it's also a useful tool to outline the nature of potential romance arcs to the player.

 

But enough about that: I concede I am incorrect regarding DA2 because there's more to it than what I saw; I maintain that the ME romances are definitely tilted way too much towards Shepard than individual sexuality.

 

I feel like you probably aren't flirted with very much in real life if something as overt as that goes over your head...

[DaemionMoadrin]

It would be pretty neat to have companions or crew mates who would be compatible with you sexually but just aren't into you personally. Maybe you could flirt with a scientist all the time and despite that she falls in love with someone else.

 

Actually, I really, really want a game where things don't go the way you want, where you get rejected by a few possible LIs.

[daveliam]

I never saw it as flirting. I've always thought that was Kaidan being awkward as can be because Kaidan was always a little lacking in the charisma department. The whole hospital scene did seem like there was sexual tension, but all along I felt like it was just bad writing and that it wasn't what they were going for (and there's a lot of suspect writing in ME3, so it's no sole offender).

 

No, you're right that a bisexual person doesn't have to do that, but in the format of a game when people are opening up about who they are, what they like, who they like, etc. it's not an odd thing to come up. In-game, it's also a useful tool to outline the nature of potential romance arcs to the player.

 

But enough about that: I concede I am incorrect regarding DA2 because there's more to it than what I saw; I maintain that the ME romances are definitely tilted way too much towards Shepard than individual sexuality.

 

On Kaidan:  I just went back and watched it to make sure that I'm correct.  In response to a question about how he's holding up, he says something about 'getting better with age'.  Male Shep responds, "Maybe you are".  Kaidan responds, "<sexy chuckle> Are you flirting with me Shepard?  No, don't answer, I want to live in the illusion."

 

I mean, that was in response to a non-flirt inquiry.  Kaidan definitely hits on male Shep without the player initiating sexy talk.

 

Again, I think that the issue that you are talking about is completely separate from sexuality.  You are talking about how every LI practically throws their panties (or equivalent) at Shep, regardless of how s/he looks or acts.  That is playersexuality, really.  The idea that the LI's can't be dissuaded from romance because Shep is PC.  That has nothing to do with sexuality.  Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Jacob, Thane, Garrus, and Tali are all like that as well.  And they are straight.  You seem to be conflating bisexuality with this for some reason and I'm just not seeing the connection.  Someone asked a good question earlier:  Garrus never explicitly identifies his sexuality and he will romance a female Shep regardless of her looks, beliefs, or actions.  Does that make him playersexual as well?

[aoibhealfae]

Kelly did ask my FemShepard if she like bad boys and I think there's a couple of times where she insisted she sees Shepard as a friend. I didn't get the hint that she's into Shepard as a lover though.. maybe later in my current playthrough

 

With Kaidan, the "Are you flirting with me?" line will only happen if you're nice to him at Mars (paragon+paragon option during the husk-cerberus scene) and if you give him the whiskey (especially with new romance). He won't say that to a previously romanced Shepard who choose the first renegade line (I'm still me and I have a job to do) or paragon+renegade lines (Its all in the past, Kaidan).

 

Personally, I prefer him saying "I think I'm a better soldier when I'm with you" instead of the flirt dialogue since the former sounds more intimate and Shepard would be like "I flirted and you didn't notice.. pff". Besides, he's all "I like having you in my life." and "I'm not seeing anyone and I still care".

[daveliam]

It would be pretty neat to have companions or crew mates who would be compatible with you sexually but just aren't into you personally. Maybe you could flirt with a scientist all the time and despite that she falls in love with someone else.

 

Actually, I really, really want a game where things don't go the way you want, where you get rejected by a few possible LIs.

 

You know what I'd love to see?  A LGBT crew member who isn't an LI.  It would be amazing to have a gay bro who just isn't an LI.  Either he's already in a relationship or he's just not into newPCguy.  Hard to believe, but I haven't slept with (nor want to sleep with) most of my gay guy friends.  It would be great if that could happen in a game as well.  But because of the ridiculous "demographics" argument, I can already predict the pushback on this.  "THREE gay (because apparently bisexual men are just gay to alot of complainers about Anders and Kaidan) guys on one ship?!?  How is that possible?!?"

[Evamitchelle]

It would be pretty neat to have companions or crew mates who would be compatible with you sexually but just aren't into you personally. Maybe you could flirt with a scientist all the time and despite that she falls in love with someone else.

 

Actually, I really, really want a game where things don't go the way you want, where you get rejected by a few possible LIs.

 

If I remember right in Baldur's Gate 2 you could get into a sort of love triangle situation with two of your companions, and you could actually lose your LI to the other guy. I'd kinda like to see that come back in a future Bioware game. As it is your potential LIs only make their move on someone else once they're sure you're not gonna romance them (Isabela & Fenris, Garrus & Tali, Dorian & Bull). 

 

You know what I'd love to see?  A LGBT crew member who isn't an LI.  It would be amazing to have a gay bro who just isn't an LI.  Either he's already in a relationship or he's just not into newPCguy.  Hard to believe, but I haven't slept with (nor want to sleep with) most of my gay guy friends.  It would be great if that could happen in a game as well.  But because of the ridiculous "demographics" argument, I can already predict the pushback on this.  "THREE gay (because apparently bisexual men are just gay to alot of complainers about Anders and Kaidan) guys on one ship?!?  How is that possible?!?"

 

Yeah that'd be really nice. So far none of the non-romanceable companions in either the Mass Effect or the Dragon Age series have been gay or bisexual. 

[SardaukarElite]

It would be pretty neat to have companions or crew mates who would be compatible with you sexually but just aren't into you personally. Maybe you could flirt with a scientist all the time and despite that she falls in love with someone else.

 

Actually, I really, really want a game where things don't go the way you want, where you get rejected by a few possible LIs.

 

While I agree it would be interesting there is an issue with content. If you're screening romances for blonde, witty, cool grey eyed player characters then a typical BioWare game is going to run out of romances.

 

It might work if you had lots of minor romances.

[DaemionMoadrin]

While I agree it would be interesting there is an issue with content. If you're screening romances for blonde, witty, cool grey eyed player characters then a typical BioWare game is going to run out of romances.

 

It might work if you had lots of minor romances.

 

No, there is no romance. The character in question might be bi, but they aren't into you, the PC, at all. No matter what you do. They are just friends. Deal with it.

[SardaukarElite]

No, there is no romance. The character in question might be bi, but they aren't into you, the PC, at all. No matter what you do. They are just friends. Deal with it.

 

Oh, I thought you meant they actually had a preference rather than be playerasexual. Yeah sure, in a similar style I think more male/female friendships would be a cool thing.

[Cyonan]

No, there is no romance. The character in question might be bi, but they aren't into you, the PC, at all. No matter what you do. They are just friends. Deal with it.

 

Well in ME2 there was Samara who would flat out reject a renegade Shep. She would show interest in a paragon one, but ultimately reject them because of the Justicar code.

 

As far as I know she's not bi, but Vivienne can also be flirted with and will reject a male Inquisitor.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well in ME2 there was Samara who would flat out reject a renegade Shep. She would show interest in a paragon one, but ultimately reject them because of the Justicar code.

 

As far as I know she's not bi, but Vivienne can also be flirted with and will reject a male Inquisitor.

 

Yup!

[Dunmer of Redoran]

On Kaidan:  I just went back and watched it to make sure that I'm correct.  In response to a question about how he's holding up, he says something about 'getting better with age'.  Male Shep responds, "Maybe you are".  Kaidan responds, "<sexy chuckle> Are you flirting with me Shepard?  No, don't answer, I want to live in the illusion."

 

I mean, that was in response to a non-flirt inquiry.  Kaidan definitely hits on male Shep without the player initiating sexy talk.

 

He does? Is that a line that triggers regardless of what path is taken? Everything before the "maybe you are" part is familiar to me, but I don't remember the other half.

 

I really hope I'm not arguing this because I don't remember a couple of sentences from one scene. 

 

 

I feel like you probably aren't flirted with very much in real life if something as overt as that goes over your head...

 

What he says (beyond the line that I seem to have missed) looks like it should be obvious, but due to the lack of concrete follow-up in an otherwise unsubtle series (that is, if you don't express any interest along the way), I thought of Kaidan as being the well-meaning but uninspiring dork who says awkward and sometimes suggestive things and has no idea that he's actually saying something suggestive (until well after the words have left his mouth). Sort of like Chandler from Friends, except in space.

[daveliam]

Yeah that'd be really nice. So far none of the non-romanceable companions in either the Mass Effect or the Dragon Age series have been gay or bisexual. 

 

DATA TIME!!!!!

 

There have been 47 companions/squad members (not including NPCs in this analysis) in the DA and ME games (minus DA: A since there are no romances in that game).

 

Of those, 24 have been romanceable.  13 have been straight, 9 have been bisexual, and 2 have been gay/lesbian.

 

Of the remaining 23 non-romanceable squaddies/companions:

 

11 have expressed interest in only opposite sex partners (Wynne, Oghren, Loghain, Carver, Aveline, Varric, Vivienne, Wrex, Kasumi, Vega, and EDI)

 

9 of them have expressed no interest in either sex (Sten, Shale, Bethany, Cole, Mordin, Grunt, Legion, Zaeed, and Javik) - Note that the only humanoid woman in this category is the PC's sister

 

2 of them have expressed interest in both sexes (Samara and Morinth)  I don't consider Samara a 'true romance' since she doesn't unlock the achievement, but ymmv on that one.

 

One of them is a dog (Dog)

 

Make of this data what you will.

[daveliam]

He does? Is that a line that triggers regardless of what path is taken? Everything before the "maybe you are" part is familiar to me, but I don't remember the other half.

 

I really hope I'm not arguing this because I don't remember a couple of sentences from one scene. 

 

What he says (beyond the line that I seem to have missed) looks like it should be obvious, but due to the lack of concrete follow-up in an otherwise unsubtle series (that is, if you don't express any interest along the way), I thought of Kaidan as being the well-meaning but uninspiring dork who says awkward and sometimes suggestive things and has no idea that he's actually saying something suggestive (until well after the words have left his mouth). Sort of like Chandler from Friends, except in space.

 

According to a poster earlier, those lines might be conditional.  I have no info on that though since I've never played ME3 with a character importing a romance nor have I have ever taken renegade dialogue options with Kaidan on Mars.

 

A quick google search shows conflicting info on it, though.  There is a fair amount of message board complaining about how it happens regardless, so now I'm not sure what to believe.  Take it with a grain of salt, I guess.

 

To the second point:  Your interpretation is that he says suggestive and awkward things withotu realizing what they mean.  My interpretation is that he's hitting on Shep.  The game supports my interpretation since he's an LI for mShep.  If he wasn't, I'd say that both interpretations are valid.  But he's clearly interested in mShep, since he's a romance option for him.

[Evamitchelle]

DATA TIME!!!!!

 

There have been 47 companions/squad members (not including NPCs in this analysis) in the DA and ME games (minus DA: A since there are no romances in that game).

 

Of those, 24 have been romanceable.  13 have been straight, 9 have been bisexual, and 2 have been gay/lesbian.

 

Of the remaining 23 non-romanceable squaddies/companions:

 

11 have expressed interest in only opposite sex partners (Wynne, Oghren, Loghain, Carver, Aveline, Varric, Vivienne, Wrex, Kasumi, Vega, and EDI)

 

9 of them have expressed no interest in either sex (Sten, Shale, Bethany, Cole, Mordin, Grunt, Legion, Zaeed, and Javik) - Note that the only humanoid woman in this category is the PC's sister

 

2 of them have expressed interest in both sexes (Samara and Morinth)  I don't consider Samara a 'true romance' since she doesn't unlock the achievement, but ymmv on that one.

 

One of them is a dog (Dog)

 

Make of this data what you will.

 

Funny enough but I actually did that as well earlier today. And I have a couple of corrections about the "no interest in either sex" category: Bethany shows an interest in Sebastian, Zaeed flirts a lot with Samara during the Citadel party (the loud one at least) and Javik has a "romance" exclusive to FemShep at the end of the Citadel DLC (that one's debatable). And I'd say Mordin is straight up asexual. Bottom line though: exactly 0 LGBT companions who are not romanceable. 

[Lady Artifice]

Well in ME2 there was Samara who would flat out reject a renegade Shep. She would show interest in a paragon one, but ultimately reject them because of the Justicar code.

 

As far as I know she's not bi, but Vivienne can also be flirted with and will reject a male Inquisitor.

 

I think Aveline might be the most prominent case. Some people invested in that, believing that they were on a full romance path. Then it just runs Hawke through the paces. "I'm charming myself into obsolescence." 

[Lady Artifice]

Funny enough but I actually did that as well earlier today. And I have a couple of corrections about the "no interest in either sex" category: Bethany shows an interest in Sebastian, Zaeed flirts a lot with Samara during the Citadel party (the loud one at least) and Javik has a "romance" exclusive to FemShep at the end of the Citadel DLC (that one's debatable). And I'd say Mordin is straight up asexual. Bottom line though: exactly 0 LGBT companions who are not romanceable. 

 

Shale also has a crush on Sten...but that's more a "in love with your carnage," kind of thing. 

[Cyonan]

Bottom line though: exactly 0 LGBT companions who are not romanceable. 

 

That depends on if you consider Samara to be a romance or not.

 

I'd say not since she ultimately rejects you no matter what, despite showing interest in a paragon Shep.

[daveliam]

Funny enough but I actually did that as well earlier today. And I have a couple of corrections about the "no interest in either sex" category: Bethany shows an interest in Sebastian, Zaeed flirts a lot with Samara during the Citadel party (the loud one at least) and Javik has a "romance" exclusive to FemShep at the end of the Citadel DLC (that one's debatable). And I'd say Mordin is straight up asexual. Bottom line though: exactly 0 LGBT companions who are not romanceable. 

 

Awesome!  Thanks for the corrections.  I totally forgot about Bethany/Sebastian since I've only done one non-mage playthrough of DA2.  And I totally forgot about Javik because it was stupid.  I had no idea about the Zaeed/Samara thing.  Not surprising.

 

Speaking of Samara.  I do think that she kind of counts for both of the topics that we're talking about.  She is a squad member who will reject Shep, even when s/he overtly flirts with her.  And she's clearly bisexual since she'll do that to both male/female Sheps with the same reasoning, which isn't about his/her gender.  Plus, she's also obviously been with another female in the past since her daughters are pure-blooded.  I'd also argue that Morinth counts as a LGBT non-romance squaddie.  Her lover, Nef, was a woman and it's not like you can actually romance her.  If you try, you get a game-over. 

[Dunmer of Redoran]

According to a poster earlier, those lines might be conditional.  I have no info on that though since I've never played ME3 with a character importing a romance nor have I have ever taken renegade dialogue options with Kaidan on Mars.

 

A quick google search shows conflicting info on it, though.  There is a fair amount of message board complaining about how it happens regardless, so now I'm not sure what to believe.  Take it with a grain of salt, I guess.

 

To the second point:  Your interpretation is that he says suggestive and awkward things withotu realizing what they mean.  My interpretation is that he's hitting on Shep.  The game supports my interpretation since he's an LI for mShep.  If he wasn't, I'd say that both interpretations are valid.  But he's clearly interested in mShep, since he's a romance option for him.

 

That's just it, though: in the world of Mass Effect, where romances have next to zero subtlety, you can (IF I remember this correctly) do all of Kaidan's dialogue and cutscenes and easily skip his romance without ever really shutting him down. I never noticed any hints of him being interested without Shepard being interested first, but that custscene you mentioned, I could just be remembering that wrong. If I'm wrong on that, my point about Kaidan is null.

 

Sidenote about Shale/Sten, aren't they both crushing on each other in their dialogue? Could just be Sten being facetious like he is towards Morrigan, but he does seem a little more sincere in his interactions.