2503 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

its not very romantic in nature

The comments Shepard makes to Joker about it are equally bland and lackluster.

The game is so wishy washy about whether Shepard is allowed to care about a romanced Kaidan/Ashley.

[dgcatanisiri]

The comments Shepard makes to Joker about it are equally bland and lackluster.

The game is so wishy washy about whether Shepard is allowed to care about a romanced Kaidan/Ashley.

 

Honestly, I half think that the Mass Effect writers were intentionally trying to tear down Ashley and Kaidan over the course of ME2 and at least the first half of 3. 'Who cares if they have legitimate reasons to distrust Cerberus, or have no reason to believe Shepard actually died in the Collector attack? They distrusted Shepard, and that makes them bad bad horrible people who don't deserve Shepard's trust and loyalty!' That's really the only way I can see the fact that Ashley/Kaidan apparently never make any effort to see Shepard during their time in lockup (which is the only way their interaction outside the committee hearing makes sense).

 

And dear GOD, those developer comments about how Shepard 'isn't gay'... I swear, if I think about them for more than five seconds, I will pop a blood vessel in my rage. It is bullshit of the highest degree, and really undermines any of BioWare's claims to being progressive.

[KaiserShep]

Hah, they can claim Shepard isn't gay all they want. Didn't stop mine from being gay as the day is long.

[aoibhealfae]

To be honest, while Liara have more content plus DLCs but I felt only VS relationship have the luxury of being acknowledged by the game as they're the only LI that the game tried so hard to kill. On Eden Prime with the beacon (plus saving Ashley earlier), then Virmire, then Horizon, then Mars, then during Citadel Coup. Why would TIM choose VS specifically as bait for the Collectors? Why should he and the Collectors care if VS was a close friend to Shepard? If that was an issue, shouldn't they attack Tuchanka or Ilium? Then that post-Horizon scene with TIM where he said "can you put your past relationship behind". And then later, TIM ordered Eva Core specifically to kill VS in front of Shepard. There's no other reason for unromanced-VS to receive that kind of treatment. And it made more sense for TIM to punish Shepard directly, especially the one who was faithful to VS in ME2. Plus, if he really wanted to sabotage Shepard, why didn't he order Eva Core to kill herself? 

 

Even in ME2, Joker and Kelly would ask about VS (and personally, the only appropriate response was being neutral with either of them). In LotSB pre-suicide mission, if you said you're frustrated, Liara would mention about VS and Shepard being hurt about them not believing them. Why should that bother Shepard if they're merely a 'friend' to VS?

 

And there were times where I felt Anderson was aware of VS's feelings and their relationship. In ME1 at the sickbay post-beacon and I don't know if its because romanced priority flag or what, the ending after Sovereign was destroyed, Anderson will always go to VS to ask about Shepard. Then in ME2, Anderson was too evasive and seemed guilty about VS investigating Shepard, twice. In ME3, where he gestured VS silently toward Shepard and then waited both of them as they stare at each other. Then during the Normandy rescue scene, he stop right after Shepard was safely inside the ship and he did watch Shepard walking toward VS and stare at them until Normandy flew away. And that Anderson's interview about "there's a whole bunch of people losing sleep over him/her coming back home" and that deleted Citadel scene where he asked Shepard about having a family. Like it or not, the only LI who was directly in contact with Anderson from the start was VS. 

 

You know, little things like this wouldn't happen if they did decide to forgo VS romance from the start and these are pretty complex for a romance subplot.

 

Sorry, a hardcore Kaidanmancer here *shrugs* at least, Bioware was apologizing over destroying my FemRevan/Carth.

[dgcatanisiri]

Oh, trust me, I'm an 'MShenko or bust' person (...okay, so I'll pit stop for Shepard and Vega, sue me). But I very much feel that the VS got the short end of the stick. One of my sticking points with that is just how much is arrayed against the VS - the Genesis comic, when choosing Shepard's ME1 LI pushes the VS into the background, glowering, while Liara's in the front, looking innocent and sweet. The encounter on Horizon is scripted to go badly, I blame no one for thinking that it's an actual break up. LotSB is plotted like it's the Liaramance with the serial numbers filed off (just look at that sad pan back to Liara after defeating the Broker, when Shepard goes to help pick up their squadmate. It's framed as if saying 'you didn't kiss her, that made her sad, how could you do that?'). The Arrival DLC is practically gift wrapped on a silver platter to be Ashley/Kaidan's answer to LotSB, but they're not even mentioned. You can spend Mars at their throat for (RIGHTFULLY!) being suspicious of Shepard and their Cerberus ties. The second dream is placed at the wrong point so Liara is the one who you talk to about the one left behind, rather than the VS, after holding a gun on them - another instance of a point that's perfectly poised to be about Ashley/Kaidan inexplicably not given to them. There's Joker's horrible remark about them, explicitly doing their job of protecting the Council, and perfectly able to lower their weapon with little effort on Shepard's part to convince them, with just 'go easy on them' as Shepard's defense, rather than something like 'you're out of line, they did their duty'... All of that adds up to me that the writers were of the opinion that Ashley/Kaidan weren't right for Shepard, that they needed to be narratively punished for not trusting Shepard.

 

I don't really feel like Ashley/Kaidan got a fair shake from the writers. If Andromeda is going to be another story of an ongoing protagonist, rather than going to the Dragon Age rotating protagonist model, then they absolutely NEED to make sure that any and all LI's get a fair shake. THIS/THESE LIs can't have 'unwavering loyalty' while THAT/THOSE LIs are 'hostile and suspicious' for the same events. It's one thing to earn the trust of these characters, but don't have the plot and the writing split the LIs ability to trust the PC. It HAS to be a conscious decision for the player, not 'because the plot says so.'

[(Disgusted noise.)]

The Arrival DLC is practically gift wrapped on a silver platter to be Ashley/Kaidan's answer to LotSB, but they're not even mentioned. 

 

Kaidan (and I guess Ashley if for some reason you let her live) coming with Shepard during Arrival would have totally saved that DLC from being the un-fun bore it is. It's the only Bioware DLC other than Exiled Prince that I regret buying, and unlike Arrival, I at least play through the Exiled Prince missions when I do a run of DA2.

[Ambivalent]

Haven't experienced anything unbearable but if there's a problem make everyone asexual or bi. 

 

Neither is realistic, i agree but a "workaround" at least.

[KaiserShep]

Kaidan (and I guess Ashley if for some reason you let her live) coming with Shepard during Arrival would have totally saved that DLC from being the un-fun bore it is. It's the only Bioware DLC other than Exiled Prince that I regret buying, and unlike Arrival, I at least play through the Exiled Prince missions when I do a run of DA2.

 

I'm curious as to how the VS would be written into Arrival. I suppose a lot of things would have to be scrapped or rewritten, particularly the point where Shepard is incapacitated and captured. While the reasoning for even keeping Shepard alive is flimsy as hell, our good friend Harby has even less of a reason to keep the VS around. I can't imagine how this would go down without him or her getting spaced. 

[Blackguard]

Haven't experienced anything unbearable but if there's a problem make everyone asexual or bi. 

 

Neither is realistic, i agree but a "workaround" at least.

 

I don't think it would be any help.

 

Some people are offended that Shep is not coloured.

Some people are offended that Shep is not gay.

Make a coloured gay Shep and you offend the other people.

Take away all romance (what would be kind of worse, for you take away a part of old-school-bioware-content for the mental healthy people that just likes to enjoy the game) and well... the next group is offended.

 

Would be nice, if any game company would simply stop listen to all this varrenshit of this troubled souls, who got nothing better to do than yell about video games, and simply design their game the way they want to.

 

With some basic intelligence people would understand why the default-chars are attached to the preferences of the majority.

The majority of the audience is white, male and straight. Does people really don't got other hobbies than taking unpersonal business personal?

I for an example am a vegetarian/mostly vegan... in survival games i have to eat meat all the time, because most games are ignorant to a diet without animal-corpses.

Oh how unfair. I feel so personal offended that i cry myself to sleep every night i play this kind of games.

(I am not saying that it doesn't pisses me off sometimes, but i grew up somewhat 20 years ago.)

 

What do we want now, a coloured, gay, vegan Shep that satisfies a few (in one case even mine) minorities?

To the cost that the game won't be bought from the majority and it will suck and won't be continued?

 

Unfortunatly, life with basic intelligence is a rare thing in the milkyway.

Maybe it was really a good idea to move to another galaxy.

 

This society needs fewer special snowflakes and more krogans

 

PS: I would still agree to the all-bi-solution. As a straight person it doesn't affects me that a gay person can date the same chars as i do. As a gay person it doesn't has to bother me that i can't get a "gay just for me alone" as long as i can romance every companion as everyone else do.

It would be the most fair way to do it(not that it would stop some sissies to cry on, but still, fair is fair).

[aoibhealfae]

I'm curious as to how the VS would be written into Arrival. I suppose a lot of things would have to be scrapped or rewritten, particularly the point where Shepard is incapacitated and captured. While the reasoning for even keeping Shepard alive is flimsy as hell, our good friend Harby has even less of a reason to keep the VS around. I can't imagine how this would go down without him or her getting spaced. 

 

If you don't have Arrival DLC, Hackett would dispatch the 103rd Marine Division to rescue Kenson. Had it turns out differently, VS could tag along Shepard at Aratoht or have them as a backup if something bad happened. But yeah, VS should've saved Shepard instead of having Harby keeping Shepard alive and then suddenly gain some magical immunity to the sedatives.

[themikefest]

I'm curious as to how the VS would be written into Arrival. I suppose a lot of things would have to be scrapped or rewritten, particularly the point where Shepard is incapacitated and captured. While the reasoning for even keeping Shepard alive is flimsy as hell, our good friend Harby has even less of a reason to keep the VS around. I can't imagine how this would go down without him or her getting spaced. 

Maybe Hackett sends in Ashley/Kaidan to investigate since Shepard hasn't been heard from in 2 days. They somehow were able to track the location of where Shepard is and able to sneak by everyone to free Shepard. From there, it plays out the same except Ashley/Kaidan is at Shepard's side

[Celtic Latino]

2 options for each gender is all I ask. If that's in the form of playersexual or established sexualities I'm ok with either. Personally I'm more in favor of DA2's route (male and female human/non human available to both) but hey that's just me.

[daveliam]

2 options for each gender is all I ask. If that's in the form of playersexual or established sexualities I'm ok with either. Personally I'm more in favor of DA2's route (male and female human/non human available to both) but hey that's just me.

 

If they did go the route of the 4 bisexual options, what do we think would be the distribution?

 

Human Female

Asari

Human Male

Drell/Turian/Quarian Male?

 

I think we can pretty much all agree that the first three would be likely.  But what would the bisexual alien male be?  We've never seen any male alien romance options who weren't straight before (Garrus, Thane, and even Javik's fling, were all straight only).  In fact, I think Gavorn might be the only male alien that we've seen at all who is hinted at not being straight.

[Celtic Latino]

If they did go the route of the 4 bisexual options, what do we think would be the distribution?

Human Female
Asari
Human Male
Drell/Turian/Quarian Male?

I think we can pretty much all agree that the first three would be likely. But what would the bisexual alien male be? We've never seen any male alien romance options who weren't straight before (Garrus, Thane, and even Javik's fling, were all straight only). In fact, I think Gavorn might be the only male alien that we've seen at all who is hinted at not being straight.

Personally I'd be betting on either a new alien species or a drell. Drell were romance able by FemShep (Thane) so it's kind of confirmed some may be attracted to humans. Plus they have human like bodies (unlike Garrus, whose romance was more about fan pandering). A quarian male romance might prove interesting too.

[dgcatanisiri]

I would kinda like the quarian male option as well, though I'm reluctant to think that quarians will have more than cameos if that, given that the Migrant Fleet can be wiped out in the course of ME3. Though he could always have been one of those quarians who never came back from their Pilgrimage that Tali mentioned in ME1, the people she says she'd always assumed had had something bad happen to them, but instead chose to stay away.

 

Great, now I'm getting ideas. Why do I do this, this always leads to disappointment...

[Celtic Latino]

I would kinda like the quarian male option as well, though I'm reluctant to think that quarians will have more than cameos if that, given that the Migrant Fleet can be wiped out in the course of ME3. Though he could always have been one of those quarians who never came back from their Pilgrimage that Tali mentioned in ME1, the people she says she'd always assumed had had something bad happen to them, but instead chose to stay away.

Great, now I'm getting ideas. Why do I do this, this always leads to disappointment...

Remember the rachni...

Krogan are obviously in (there's a squad mate named Drack supposedly) and you can opt to continue the genophage in ME3. I'm sure some random remnant of long lost quarians or distant relations will somehow make it in.

[dgcatanisiri]

Remember the rachni...

Krogan are obviously in (there's a squad mate named Drack supposedly) and you can opt to continue the genophage in ME3. I'm sure some random remnant of long lost quarians or distant relations will somehow make it in.

 

Well yeah, but not curing the genophage didn't wipe out most of the species, just keeps their birth rate at one in a thousand. Siding with the geth destroys the Migrant Fleet, where about 99% of all quarians live.

[SardaukarElite]

Remember the rachni...

 

Species of alien cost resources, really it makes sense for them to aggressively cull as many as they can to save zots for new romanceable aliens.

[karushna5]

If they did go the route of the 4 bisexual options, what do we think would be the distribution?

 

Human Female

Asari

Human Male

Drell/Turian/Quarian Male?

 

I think we can pretty much all agree that the first three would be likely.  But what would the bisexual alien male be?  We've never seen any male alien romance options who weren't straight before (Garrus, Thane, and even Javik's fling, were all straight only).  In fact, I think Gavorn might be the only male alien that we've seen at all who is hinted at not being straight.

I feel like it will be a new alien or a Turian. Turian, because they are the more staple go to romance because of Garrus and they already went with familiar in that range with 2 humans and an Asari.

 

But i would love it to be a new character to shake it up, but in that case, I think the Asari would not be an option and have a more radical choice as well. I feel that might be better for a new series. The only alien romanceable women have been Asari and a Quarian so a Drell/Turian/Krogan would all be pretty new.

 

So they either will try to go as Traditional as possible and say hey its still Mass effect or go with something different and go New World, new tropes. A romanceable Asari or Turian will be compared to Garrus and Liara regardless which can be good or bad depending on how much and what they are going for.

[Odintius]

The only way I could see them making it fair is during character creation a sexuality options between being straight, or gay and in game dialogues odviously changes with corresponding prefer chose . Once chosen for straight for example will depending on what gender say as female makes all male romances available. If chose gay then same deal but makeing it female/female and male/male odviously more to this might be required not gay so someone could chime in too my lack of knowledge of the subject.

Its a single player experience anyways, I'm not going to care or see what another person does in there play through personnally, and people could always upload videos of course on YouTube though showing both straight and gay point of views win/win for both sides IMO.

[MrFob]

I actually though it was handled well in ME1/2/3. The first concern of any writer should always be who they want their character to be. The character should be a character in its own right and now be dependent on the PC. That is not to say that the PC cannot have influence at all (see Garrus in ME1, who you could nudge in a certain direction, that made sense). However, in DA2 for example, characters could change their own values dependent on the players conversation choices and those were changes that supposedly took effect BEFORE that conversation ever happened. In effect, the player could choose which kind of NPC they wanted by dialogue and that's what took a lot of life and believability out of the characters.

One positive exception was Aveline who makes her own decisions. I was surprised how her romance turned out (and maybe a bit sad for my Hawke) but it was still a good story that came out of it and it made Aveline's character all the more strong for it.

A non romance example for this problem from the ME world was the turian councilor in ME1. Whenever you reported back to the council after a mission and no matter what you actually did, he will disapprove. Thus, the councilor doesn't have his own viewpoints as a character but he rather represents a general negative voice towards the player. This is not good writing as whoever wrote this did not create a character and think in terms of their views and motivations but rather thought in terms of what the player needed to hear and the turian was just a conduit for that sentence.

ME3 may not have been "fair" as far as numbers of potential romances were concerned but that is very reminiscent of the real world and it made the game feel more believable to me. Even the fact that Jacob is abandoning  a romancing FemShep was a good call by the devs IMO (sorry to all Jacob romancers out there). It's what life can throw at you and it gave Jacob more personality than he ever had in ME2 (he is still a jerk for it but at least now you can honestly dislike him for it).

I hope they keep this up in ME:A. Give the companions real personalities and don't just make them playballs of the PC to do with however they wish. With some companions things should work out and with others maybe not. That's fine. Just make it fit the character and I am happy.

[SardaukarElite]

I feel that might be better for a new series. The only alien romanceable women have been Asari and a Quarian so a Drell/Turian/Krogan would all be pretty new.

 

What do female Drell look like? I'd bet Turian or a new race though, if we're taking stabs in the dark.

 

The only way I could see them making it fair is during character creation a sexuality options between being straight, or gay and in game dialogues odviously changes with corresponding prefer chose .

 

That doesn't actually alter the 'fairness' (so far as that's a thing) of romance content in the game only how it is presented. DA2 had fair romance options (by this thread's measure) and DA:I would if you cut two out. It's not actually that hard.

[DaemionMoadrin]

We definitely should go where no man has gone before... and have a Rachni LI.

[Odintius]

That doesn't actually alter the 'fairness' (so far as that's a thing) of romance content in the game only how it is presented. DA2 had fair romance options (by this thread's measure) and DA:I would if you cut two out. It's not actually that hard.

From my experience threw the games if your not gay and you reject them they seems overly upset rather not even being bother with having to deal with that at all honestly. The only character I remember who took it well was Cortez from ME3, but I rather not have it (just because I helped you out automatically assumes I'm into you) to me this should have been established before the drinks on the citadel were even poured IMO.

[karushna5]

I actually though it was handled well in ME1/2/3. The first concern of any writer should always be who they want their character to be. The character should be a character in its own right and now be dependent on the PC. That is not to say that the PC cannot have influence at all (see Garrus in ME1, who you could nudge in a certain direction, that made sense). However, in DA2 for example, characters could change their own values dependent on the players conversation choices and those were changes that supposedly took effect BEFORE that conversation ever happened. In effect, the player could choose which kind of NPC they wanted by dialogue and that's what took a lot of life and believability out of the characters.

One positive exception was Aveline who makes her own decisions. I was surprised how her romance turned out (and maybe a bit sad for my Hawke) but it was still a good story that came out of it and it made Aveline's character all the more strong for it.

 

See this is interesting to me because in DA:O they are much, much more pliable than in DA2. In dragon age origins you can make a man who hates the idea of his birthright fight to be King, you can turn the sweet religious character into a snarky darker one who shrugs away her her miracles she spent half the game swearing to. You can turn a woman who hates outsiders into someone who loves the PC deeply and will even settle down with him. Shale hates all living beings it seems, but she will serve you. The life long Assassin will leave everything behind because you are a good friend and will kill his old friend (and ex lover). You decide who rules 2 nations.

 

Compare to Dragon Age 2, No matter what you do or say, Merrill will devote herself to Blood Magic to the point of destruction, there is absolutely no choice you either support it and she likes you or you talk aggainst it and she rivals you, you practically have no effect on her. Anders still blows up the Chantry and lies to you about it, whether you kicked him out, romanced him, or rivaled him, you honestly effect him only when you choose to kill him. Isabela will come back if she likes you, but doesn't actually change at all, she just cared enough to help you out. Fenris is broody elf no matter what you do. You can convince him to not kill his sister, but he reacts pretty much the same no matter what. In fact romancing him, just makes him retreat further.

 

To me, DA2 had no choice. Hawke hardly did anything, and all their dialogue with companions, except Sebastian, meant nothing. The only thing was deciding to fight the Arishock, and still standing after both sides kill each other at the end of the game. No companions were Less flexible than DA2. Yes they won't die fighting you if you max them out, but that becomes I am fighting for you, not them, in every since of the word and still needs ton of coaxing. They have more determination than any other game's companions. Renegade Anti-Alien Sheppard romances Garrus/Tali/Thane/Liara just fine, Samara still follows you as does Miranda be just as happy with an Anti-Cerberus Sheppard.

 

DA2 companions are the most stubborn characters in their last 6 games.