1315 réponses à ce sujet

[FKA_Servo]

-snip-

 

As profound and relevant as ever...

 

[Lady Artifice]

I never let a lady touch me until she has taken out the garbage and listened to at least one story about one of my friends. My milk ain't free.

 

So, Elcor, about your thread topic. What would you mostly hope to see improve in the game as a result of the absence of romance content?

[The Heretic of Time]

No, it's more this demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of how the scientific process works. It sounds more like what you did was find a few people who technically have PhD's and jumped on the bandwagon to suit your own confirmation bias. "Hey look, I have a video! This proves it! And it was made by PhD's!"

 

When in reality, the actual process involved is far more complicated. Some factors to consider: Is there consensus among the scientific community? What's the reputation of the journal in which it was published? What's the general reputation of the scientist (s) who published it in their field? Is there opportunities for confirmation bias which have been accounted for (Ex: Funding Sources)? Have other independent groups performed similar studies and come to the same (or different) conclusions? If different, then we have to account for why this may have occurred. Amongst many others. 

 

As an example: https://www.washingt...arenting-study/

 

And another: http://www.utexas.ed...ology/news/7572

 

Now who knows? Maybe you're going to come back and say  "liberal propaganda!". And maybe it could be. Unfortunately, I can't access any of the relevant papers at present, so this is all speculation anyway until I get a chance to read them completely. But a quick search doesn't paint a pretty picture of Mark Regnerus, as an example, who contributed to that video you linked. Of course, if there's something I'm missing here, I'm always willing to look deeper. 

 

As a graduate in physics I'm sure I know how the scientific process works. So there is absolutely no need to assume I don't know how it works nor do you have to explain it to me.

 

While there might not be a scientific consensus regarding "sex as economics" there is consensus about many of the topics addressed in that video. Which was the entire point why I linked it, because someone said "sex is freely given" and that is just not true. If it was then everyone would be having sex with everyone, which clearly isn't the case. Sex is only "freely given" when certain requirements/conditions are met first. Those requirements/conditions are different for men and women.

 

And yes, for some reason you guys keep linking me to liberal progressive left-wing media instead of linking actual scientific papers, somehow expecting that I will be convinced by these liberal blogs and opinion-pieces. LOL!

[Vespervin]

"Don't do romances"

 

*cries*

 

Anyway, I tried to do a ME play-through without romancing someone but I couldn't do it, I just feel that it adds so much more depth to the story. That's my opinion anyway.

[Il Divo]

As a graduate in physics I'm sure I know how the scientific process works. So there is absolutely no need to assume I don't know how it works nor do you have to explain it to me.

 

While there might not be a scientific consensus regarding "sex as economics" there is consensus about many of the topics addressed in that video. Which was the entire point why I linked it, because someone said "sex is freely given" and that is just not true. If it was then everyone would be having sex with everyone, which clearly isn't the case. Sex is only "freely given" when certain requirements/conditions are met first. Those requirements/conditions are different for men and women.

 

And yes, for some reason you guys keep linking me to liberal progressive left-wing media instead of linking actual scientific papers, somehow expecting that I will be convinced by these liberal blogs and opinion-pieces. LOL!

 

DId you actually read the links? 

 

I mean, hell, University of Texas does conduct research. Is that a liberal blog? What about the American Sociological Association? You're very big on PhD's. If you want to talk about them, you're probably going to be going through a University. 

 

And even if you're not a fan of the Washington Post, the link I gave you did have the scientific paper attached to it. So yeah, make of that what you will. 

[Jorji Costava]

Are we still on this? Ugh . . .

 

First, let me clarify what I mean when I say that sex is 'freely given.' In the marketplace, if I pay for services and you fail to render those services, you thereby commit an injustice against me. You violate my rights. But in the domain of love and sex, if I do X, Y, and Z and my girlfriend does not have sex with me as a result, she has not committed an injustice against me. And that's the difference: Unlike the goods and services that we exchange on the marketplace, we never lose our right to our own bodily autonomy. Frankly, I'm surprised that this could be considered a controversial idea. The idea that failing to have sex with someone could constitute a violation of that person's rights cannot be taken seriously at all.

 

Second, on the whole "Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of marriage" business, the picture is not so clear cut at all. For instance, a 2015 study published in Biology Letters examined short term versus long term mating strategies in men and women, and concluded that people can be wired for one or other but not both. But the breakdown is not so neat between men and women as might be supposed. Males favored a short-term strategy by a ratio of 57:43, while females favored a long-term strategy by a ratio of 53:47; these numbers are far closer than the 'gatekeeper' theory would have us believe. A 2011 study published in the Journal of Personality and Social  Psychology (unfortunately, behind a paywall; summary here) concluded that, "when women are presented with proposers who are equivalent in terms of safety and sexual prowess, they will be equally likely as men to engage in casual sex."

 

As far as the video itself, it cites no sources at all, and it's been discredited enough times on this thread for me to bother again.

[daveliam]

As if the video made by a conservative think tank is any more unbiased than the liberal blogger.

Let's be clear, a feminist blog doesnt exactly meet the standards for academic discourse. But it's certainly the same level as that video. It's propaganda almost exclusively paid for by three private conservative funders. Just because they have the money to get a PhD to dance to their tune doesn't mean it's any more credible than the liberal propaganda.

[Lumix19]

As a graduate in physics I'm sure I know how the scientific process works. So there is absolutely no need to assume I don't know how it works nor do you have to explain it to me.

While there might not be a scientific consensus regarding "sex as economics" there is consensus about many of the topics addressed in that video. Which was the entire point why I linked it, because someone said "sex is freely given" and that is just not true. If it was then everyone would be having sex with everyone, which clearly isn't the case. Sex is only "freely given" when certain requirements/conditions are met first. Those requirements/conditions are different for men and women.

And yes, for some reason you guys keep linking me to liberal progressive left-wing media instead of linking actual scientific papers, somehow expecting that I will be convinced by these liberal blogs and opinion-pieces. LOL!

As someone going through my science degree now I see people who actually never bother to take philosophy of science papers or papers related to doing or recognizing good research. So your argument that you've done a physics degree doesn't convince me that you actually know what good science entails.

[Angry_Elcor]

So, Elcor, about your thread topic. What would you mostly hope to see improve in the game as a result of the absence of romance content?

 

Well, as I said earlier, my point was more that removing the romance would not harm the series, as opposed to actually wanting the content removed. All I would actually want would be a high threshold for the quality of whatever story content they dedicate to the romance, and a willingness to cut the weaker material early, regardless of how the "numbers" play out.

 

I would echo the "less is more" philosophy that others have espoused. Some of the romance storylines have been good. Some of them, not so much. I say keep the best ones only, and if that means there ends up only being one or two, then that's for the best.  But I don't believe that will actually happen. At least, certainly not in the short term. And if it happened in the long term, I doubt it would have anything to do with the forums.

[Suketchi]

Then ignore them.  I got sick of some of the folks pushing that same mentality and I decided to leave them alone.  It's not worth it.  A bunch of people on the internet shouldn't be able to take away your love of a game.  Folks told me that ME3 was trash due to the endings, yet I found myself mostly disagreeing with them (except for the Starbrat.  I agree with a lot of fans there.)  I was told that DA2 was a waste of time, and I ended up playing that more than DA:O.

 

I've had largely a different experience with most TW fans.  The reaction that I usually get has been a civil "I respect where you are coming from, even though I disagree."

 

Take away my love for a game? Nah. If anything, it makes me feel even more passionate of the game... which is why I have difficulty keeping my mouth shut XD For me, an argument stops being worth it when someone has to repeat themselves (I think I've reached that point in said argument). Any further discourse is a waste of time for both involved parties, so I've abandoned the discussion.

 

In the words of Dr. Okeer, "I shall inflict upon the genophage the greatest insult an enemy can suffer: to be ignored." (because I've been looking for an excuse to use that quote for forever lol) 

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Ah that would explain why I didn't know it. I think I stopped after Phantom Menace or whatever the first one after the trilogy I grew up with was called.


Okay now I'm rather curious how hating sand can be formed into a pick up line.

Let's get you up to my room and out of those things before the sand gets into them.

[Lumix19]

Well, as I said earlier, my point was more that removing the romance would not harm the series, as opposed to actually wanting the content removed. All I would actually want would be a high threshold for the quality of whatever story content they dedicate to the romance, and a willingness to cut the weaker material early, regardless of how the "numbers" play out.

I would echo the "less is more" philosophy that others have espoused. Some of the romance storylines have been good. Some of them, not so much. I say keep the best ones only, and if that means there ends up only being one or two, then that's for the best. But I don't believe that will actually happen. At least, certainly not in the short term. And if it happened in the long term, I doubt it would have anything to do with the forums.

Removal of romances seems too drastic. To be honest even trimming seems drastic, I've always found the romance content to be of a good quality, even despite Inquisition's large number of romancable companions.

[KaiserShep]

Well, as I said earlier, my point was more that removing the romance would not harm the series, as opposed to actually wanting the content removed. All I would actually want would be a high threshold for the quality of whatever story content they dedicate to the romance, and a willingness to cut the weaker material early, regardless of how the "numbers" play out.

 

I would echo the "less is more" philosophy that others have espoused. Some of the romance storylines have been good. Some of them, not so much. I say keep the best ones only, and if that means there ends up only being one or two, then that's for the best.  But I don't believe that will actually happen. At least, certainly not in the short term. And if it happened in the long term, I doubt it would have anything to do with the forums.

 

I've said this before, but I feel that story content, [non-romantic] character interaction and the sort would likely be the same regardless. Removing the romance might not necessarily harm the series (this is actually debatable, however, since harm is really a matter of personal taste and what many fans have grown accustomed to), but it may not actually help it either. 

[Pasquale1234]

I wouldn't say the romances themselves are my biggest draw toward Bioware games, but the NPC characterizations, relationships, and arcs might be. That my PC can form such bonds with various NPCs helps to ground me in the game's world, and makes the storylines much more compelling for me.

Some of my most memorable moments in gaming have nothing to do with beating the big bad end-game boss, but the quieter relationship moments - securing the friendship of the ever-cynical Morrigan and Shale in DAO, gaining Isabela's trust in DA2, getting Tali exonerated in ME2 - were moments I'll not forget. I also find the idea of 'saving the world' for the faceless masses to be pretty uninspiring compared to fighting for your friends, family, loved ones. It's the reason why Shepard sees images of 3 loved ones while approaching the selected crucible device.

Romances are just another form these NPC relationships can take. I don't much care whether the romances themselves have any omg, earth-shattering content; that they exist serves the purpose of giving the PC someone / something to fight for.

[Lady Artifice]

Well, as I said earlier, my point was more that removing the romance would not harm the series, as opposed to actually wanting the content removed. All I would actually want would be a high threshold for the quality of whatever story content they dedicate to the romance, and a willingness to cut the weaker material early, regardless of how the "numbers" play out.
 
I would echo the "less is more" philosophy that others have espoused. Some of the romance storylines have been good. Some of them, not so much. I say keep the best ones only, and if that means there ends up only being one or two, then that's for the best.  But I don't believe that will actually happen. At least, certainly not in the short term. And if it happened in the long term, I doubt it would have anything to do with the forums.

This makes sense, but due to the inherent subjectivity of "best" I wonder what you'd like them to use as the qualifications when deciding which ones to go with. I assume high story relevance would be a big factor?

[aoibhealfae]

It's the reason why Shepard sees images of 3 loved ones while approaching the selected crucible device.

This is the only part where I really like about the ending; Shepard's final thoughts before everything and the last person s/he thinks was the LI. It never fail to make me all teary up all the time.

 

Then I look back to a bunch other games I've played.... . . ..  only DAO illicit similar response when I refuse to do the dark ritual and Alistair looking at the corpse of his dead fiance and wondered why. If only the memorial scene in ME3 was voiced by your LIs... 

[The Heretic of Time]

This is the only part where I really like about the ending; Shepard's final thoughts before everything and the last person s/he thinks was the LI. It never fail to make me all teary up all the time.

 

Then I look back to a bunch other games I've played.... . . ..  only DAO illicit similar response when I refuse to do the dark ritual and Alistair looking at the corpse of his dead fiance and wondered why. If only the memorial scene in ME3 was voiced by your LIs... 

 

It's one of the many reasons I like the Control ending the most from the ME3 endings. The fact that Shepard narrates it and says how he watches over his loved-ones while you see your LI putting up his name tag on the memorial wall is really powerful.

[Kierro Ren]

Nay

Nein

Arishok: "No!"

 

Keep romances. Especially alien ones 

[KaiserShep]

It's one of the many reasons I like the Control ending the most from the ME3 endings. The fact that Shepard narrates it and says how he watches over his loved-ones while you see your LI putting up his name tag on the memorial wall is really powerful.

I dunno I kinda like Renegade Control one. "They'll do what I say or I'll f***ing spank them."

[The Heretic of Time]

I dunno I kinda like Renegade Control one. "They'll do what I say or I'll f***ing spank them."

 

Yeah that's what I meant. Renegade Control is my favorite ending by far (I mean the ending still doesn't make any sense but at least it's cool!).

[The Heretic of Time]

Keep romances. Especially alien ones 

 

Why are so many people on this forum so much into bestiality? Gross. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Why are so many people on this forum so much into bestiality? Gross. 

 

You need to look up the definition of bestiality.

[The Heretic of Time]

You need to look up the definition of bestiality.

 

I did. What about it?

[DaemionMoadrin]

I did. What about it?

 

Bestiality is cross-species sexual activity between human and non-human animals.

 

Tell me, in what way are Asari, Turians, Drell or Quarians animals?

[The Heretic of Time]

Bestiality is cross-species sexual activity between human and non-human animals.

 

Tell me, in what way are Asari, Turians, Drell or Quarians animals?

 

Yes, bestiality is cross-species sexual activity between humans and non-humans.

 

Of course asari, turians, drell, etc. are animals. Humans are animals too.