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[Angry_Elcor]

How do you know? Data is data after all.

 

And between the graphical and audio data alone (that these romances use), that has to amount to something. No?

 

Well, sure, once it is in its final form. But a director and a studio are not data. A voice actor isn't data. If you totaled up the sound files represented by the romance content in ME 3, I doubt you'd end up with much more than the equivalent of an itunes album. While the album's data could be measured in bits and bytes, it wouldn't necessarily translate into an accurate representation of the resources that went into it.

 

The final data total of an album by Spike Jones might be the same as the total for "Michael Jackson's Greatest Hits." But "Michael Jackson's Greatest Hits" was probably completed very quickly by a sound engineer and a computer operator assembling sound files over the course of a few days. The Spike Jones album was painstakingly rehearsed and performed over the course of many months in the studio, because they didn't have multi-track recording back then, and the entire band had to perform everything perfectly in one take.

 

That's comparing two theoretically similar things. The recording of voice sessons/writing would be even more difficult to compare to coding and animating maps, weapons and game mechanics, which are much more time- and resource-intensive by comparison.

 

This is only going to get weirder the next time one of my... err... "fans" takes umbrage with my villainous hatred of romances by making a similar point to the one that I just made.

[FKA_Servo]

I recall playing DA:I talking to Cullen, about his history (mind you, this is very early in the game, and might even be my first conversation with him with the dialogue wheel). Anyway, out of nowhere a gay romance text appears in my wheel. I immediately thought to myself; "What did I do or say to initiate this?" Lol! Seriously, I gave him no complements or excessive positive reinforcements, but there it was.

 

Does it also bother you that all those paragon choices pop up when you're trying to play a renegade? Are you aware that these are not, in fact, compulsory, but simply alternate paths that you can choose to pursue, or refrain from pursuing?

 

Do you have this problem in your real life interactions as well? You have all sorts of options open to you. Some will end badly, some won't. You are empowered to choose.

[Lady Artifice]

It seems as though the pressures of being villainized are wearing on you a bit, Elcor. 

[Synthetic Turian]

Does it also bother you that all those paragon choices pop up when you're trying to play a renegade? Are you aware that these are not, in fact, compulsory, but simply alternate paths that you can choose to pursue, or refrain from pursuing?

 

Do you have this problem in your real life interactions as well? You have all sorts of options open to you. Some will end badly, some won't. You are empowered to choose.

 

For the record, I never play as a renegade. Do paragon options bother me? No. Why? Because usually there is a scenario leading up to that moment that caused the pop up to appear. It makes sense that it's there. Vs, a random line of flirtatious text in my dialogue wheel, that appeared, of what amounts to, uninitiated courting.

 

Since I have no choice to outright avoid it, I instead ignore it. I just have to be sure not to click the wheel too fast while the arrow is pointing in the wrong direction.

 

Might have to reload that last save.   

[Angry_Elcor]

It seems as though the pressures of being villainized are wearing on you a bit, Elcor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, dear... once I started, it was apparently very difficult to stop. Step away from the Google, Elcor, step away...

[FKA_Servo]

Since I have no choice to outright avoid it, I instead ignore it.

 

Goodness, I think you've figured it out.

[Lady Artifice]

Well, while you can play someone who doesn't have a sexual relationship the games have had Shepard express interest in people in a way that is not fitting with a playthrough where the player wants to play as an asexual, demisexual, or other parts of the Grey-A spectrum.

 

A lot of those cases involve Asari, who are written as though they have magical allure for even people unused to feeling attraction (like Salarians). 

 

Don't get me wrong, that sometimes bugs me as well, just for slightly different reasons. 

[Synthetic Turian]

Goodness, I think you've figured it out.

 

There was never anything to figure out.

 

The sun is hot. Whether I like it, understand it or not, there is nothing that needs to be figured out.

 

The dialogue wheel in DA:I contains uninitiated romance options. Whether I like it, understand it or not, there is nothing that needs to be figured out.

 

It is, what it is.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

There was never anything to figure out.

The sun is hot. Whether I like it, understand it or not, there is nothing that needs to be figured out.

The dialogue wheel in DA:I contains uninitiated romance options. Whether I like it, understand it or not, there is nothing that needs to be figured out.

It is, what it is.

The game was giving you a chance to initiate a romance conversation, not the other way around.

[Ariella]

Completely agree.
 
I recall playing DA:I and talking to Cullen, about his history (mind you, this is very early in the game, and might even be my first conversation with him with the dialogue wheel). Anyway, out of nowhere a gay romance text appears in my wheel. I immediately thought to myself; "What did I do or say to initiate this?" Lol! Seriously, I gave him no complements or excessive positive reinforcements, but there it was.

Uhmmm... Cullen is heterosexual. He's also race gated for elves and humans. You can flirt with him, as you can with most of the cast, but it doesn't mean it's going to go anywhere. Much like in real life.

Not a dating sim.

The game was giving you a chance to initiate a romance conversation, not the other way around.

It surprises me that people didn't pick up on that. Hell, Bioware put the flirt indicator in because of all the wackiness over the fact that people had trouble telling what the flirt lines were in DAO.

[FKA_Servo]

Calling it a dating sim is a sarcasm. I mean that having so many potential love interest in a party is just an attempt to please everybody, and it looks unnatural in game narrative and atmosphere.

 

Why?

 

If only one, or possibly two, are at play in a given game, how is that unnatural? The only indication that it's even an option are the dialogue choices you use to initiate them. And it's not like these characters are actually throwing themselves at you. The first and only time a NPC has ever made an advance was Anders in DA2 (and barely, at that) and the outcry was sufficient to prevent that from ever happening again.

 

Change the particulars a bit. Say you have 8 factions, and over the course of the story you align yourself with one. Is that sort of situation any different? Is it excessive to have 8 of them, even if only one is relevant to a specific playthrough?

 

Is it excessive to offer 6 classes to choose from when you could just as easily have one?

 

Etc and so forth.

[Lady Artifice]

There was never anything to figure out.

 

The sun is hot. Whether I like it, understand it or not, there is nothing that needs to be figured out.

 

The dialogue wheel in DA:I contains uninitiated romance options. Whether I like it, understand it or not, there is nothing that needs to be figured out.

 

It is, what it is.

 

Right, but you really don't understand it. The game gives you options to flirt, even with characters who don't welcome your advances, because of how most people look at options as good. 

 

One can flirt with Cassandra as a female protagonist for some time before she anxiously sets out to let them down easy. It means nothing for it to be there, other than to give you numerous options. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Completely agree.

 

I recall playing DA:I and talking to Cullen, about his history (mind you, this is very early in the game, and might even be my first conversation with him with the dialogue wheel). Anyway, out of nowhere a gay romance text appears in my wheel. I immediately thought to myself; "What did I do or say to initiate this?" Lol! Seriously, I gave him no complements or excessive positive reinforcements, but there it was.

 

Now, I'm not at all bashing gays, I'd never. But I do find it interesting that the text literally appeared out of nowhere. That screams dating sim to me.

 

I also had a similar experience with Iron Bull as well.

 

Dragon Age: Dating Sim. 

 

Relevant 

 

[Ariella]

Right, but you really don't understand it. The game gives you options to flirt, even with characters who don't welcome your advances, because of how most people look at options as good. 
 
One can flirt with Cassandra as a female protagonist for some time before she anxiously sets out to let them down easy. It means nothing for it to be there, other than to give you numerous options.

I'll never understand people who complain about being given options, especially in something simple as dialogue.

I mean, Viv's not even an LI, but you can flirt with her just for the heck of it. Sometimes flirting is just fun and nothing more. Why people hop up and down about it is beyond me.

This isn't a dating sim, it's a relationship that adds color to the story. That helps make the character more than a bunch of numbers and pixels. Which is the whole point.

I should dig up that damned Dragon article about romance in RPGs. It deals with PnP but it had some interesting points, and it came out before the only two games I can think of that had relationships at the time came out: Quest for Glory 5 and Treasures of the Savage Frontier.

Ultima 7 had sex, but I don't remember if it actually had a romance for the Avatar that carried through. I don't think it did.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A lot of those cases involve Asari, who are written as though they have magical allure for even people unused to feeling attraction (like Salarians). 

 

Don't get me wrong, that sometimes bugs me as well, just for slightly different reasons. 

Actually, I was thinking more about instances like Femshep practically drooling over Jacob before the romance arc even starts.

[FKA_Servo]

Actually, I was thinking more about instances like Femshep practically drooling over Jacob before the romance arc even starts.

 

I don't think you'll find anyone defending that particular delivery. Talk about a hostile work environment.

 

I don't think there were any other instances quite as egregious as that. At least, I can't conjure up any.

[Lady Artifice]

I'll never understand people who complain about being given options, especially in something simple as dialogue.

I mean, Viv's not even an LI, but you can flirt with her just for the heck of it. Sometimes flirting is just fun and nothing more. Why people hop up and down about it is beyond me.

This isn't a dating sim, it's a relationship that adds color to the story. That helps make the character more than a bunch of numbers and pixels. Which is the whole point.

I should dig up that damned Dragon article about romance in RPGs. It deals with PnP but it had some interesting points, and it came out before the only two games I can think of that had relationships at the time came out: Quest for Glory 5 and Treasures of the Savage Frontier.

Ultima 7 had sex, but I don't remember if it actually had a romance for the Avatar that carried through. I don't think it did.

 

I owe you two likes now. 

 

Actually, I was thinking more about instances like Femshep practically drooling over Jacob before the romance arc even starts.

 

 

Oh, right.

 

This is one of those times where I could not agree with you more. That was ridiculous. 

[Ariella]

I owe you two likes now.

 
 
I aim to please. 

Oh, right.
 
This is one of those times where I could not agree with you more. That was ridiculous.

I pretend Jacob doesn't exist. What they did with him. The romance was just blech and then the whole ME3 mess. I leave Jacob alone.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think you'll find anyone defending that particular delivery. Talk about a hostile work environment.

 

I don't think there were any other instances quite as egregious as that. At least, I can't conjure up any.

I know nobody will defend it. I was just saying that was a case where the player can't play their character as ace/demi since Shepard clerarly shows sexual attraction towards Jacob. 

 

While not egregious like the thing with Jacob, the romances themselves were also not supportive of people who are and/or wanted to play ace/demi with the fact that all romances both have Shepard showing sexual attraction and having sex be a mandatory part of the romance. You either had to sleep with them or break the entire romance off. The only LI where this is not the case is Kelly Chambers, which is left ambiguous how their relationship went after having a dinner date. 

[Nattfare]

Actually, I was thinking more about instances like Femshep practically drooling over Jacob before the romance arc even starts.

She does? Can't remember that ever happening for me. I picked the wrong options for that most likely then.

[Master Warder Z_]

I know nobody will defend it. I was just saying that was a case where the player can't play their character as ace/demi since Shepard clerarly shows sexual attraction towards Jacob. 

 

When was it the producer's job to cater to any taste or demographic other then what they specify said content for?

 

Hindsight and all.

 

Wasn't made for that, shouldn't be applied to that just to suit some whimsical headcanon.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

When was it the producer's job to cater to any taste or demographic other then what they specify said content for?

 

Hindsight and all.

 

Wasn't made for that, shouldn't be applied to that just to suit some whimsical headcanon.

I never said it was. I just said it was an instance where some players couldn't play the kind of character they wanted. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Quarian Master Race]

Actually, I was thinking more about instances like Femshep practically drooling over Jacob before the romance arc even starts.

There's that, and the forced flirting with James (which admittedly is way less creepy, DLC date rape aside). Broshep's got Parasini and Steve's last conversation as well (you either express interest in him or talk about the strippers).

[Master Warder Z_]

I never said it was. I just said it was an instance where some players couldn't play the kind of character they wanted. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Well...boohoo for them I guess? Pick something easier to RP as?

 

Don't self insert? I could go on.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There's that, and the forced flirting with James (which admittedly is way less creepy, DLC date rape aside). Broshep's got Parasini and Steve's last conversation as well (you either express interest in him or talk about the strippers).

Exactly. 

 

 

Well...boohoo for them I guess? Pick something easier to RP as?

 

Don't self insert? I could go on.

Why the hostility?