1315 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

The actors are there working already. I don't see why they'd call them up for "romance" recording day as opposed to just doing it when they're doing everything else.

I edited a post above asking you to clarify what you meant about Hale in KoTOR, but I think this answers my question. I don't agree with you, obviously.

So you'd just assume that these romances are part of a preplanned dialogue they'd have scripted by time of recording? Not thrown in last minute ala Solas or Cullen given they were cited recently?

That'd be my reply.

It's additional work, that equates to more money unless their under contract to fulfill that particular requisite period without additional compensation.

[Ariella]

The actors are there working already. I don't see why they'd call them up for "romance" recording day as opposed to just doing it when they're doing everything else.
 
I edited a post above asking you to clarify what you meant about Hale in KoTOR, but I think this answers my question. I don't agree with you, obviously.

As I understand it they have the romance dialogue done and locked by the time VA work starts. It's part of the word budget, thus the front office is going to know how much time they are going to need a person for, so where this idea that they're going to have to "call back" a VA...

[Master Warder Z_]

As I understand it they have the romance dialogue done and locked by the time VA work starts. It's part of the word budget, thus the front office is going to know how much time they are going to need a person for, so where this idea that they're going to have to "call back" a VA...

Is that done for initially unplanned romances as well? It's my understanding, those aren't part of allotted dialogues initially to be recorded.

[Lady Artifice]

*snorts* For labels that didn't even exist when I was in primary school?

 

Lets say you do that, when it does it end? Answer me that, how many lines of dialogue and code would it warrant to satisfy 'everyone'? Would the game even have the budget for a plot, or gameplay then? Because as you said, to a degree, what is this 'degree'? What 'freedom' is warranted and how much would it cost to actually achieve it and still leave a product cost effective and marketable?

 

These people still have to sell this thing to make their money back and to achieve profit, and this is just a single component of a overall game, how much resources should be devoted to it? Because lets say you just do asexual, heterosexual, transsexual, homosexual, demisexual, pansexual and bisexual, just what with those you have to write in and pay for dialogue from the VA's to do four more dialogue options, outcomes, etc for the romance then you would before, apply that to all romances, and or genders in a game and it becomes a nightmare to pay for, to implement and to actually achieve.

 

All for a product where again, this is a secondary feature.

 

Warder, I understand that you're frustrated with the insidious creeping of cultural sensitivity into the fictional landscape, but we don't need to be paying attention to labels to find the scene in question weird. FemShep drips seduction all over Jacob the very moment she speaks to him on the Normandy in ME2. It's enough to find it an unprofessional way to address a subordinate, and something that shouldn't be assumed about a protagonist that is presented as a competent military officer. 

[FKA_Servo]

So you'd just assume that these romances are part of a preplanned dialogue they'd have scripted by time of recording? Not thrown in last minute ala Solas or Cullen given they were cited recently?

That'd be my reply.

It's additional work, that equates to more money unless their under contract to fulfill that particular requisite period without additional compensation.

 

Well, see Ariella's reply above... but otherwise, Solas and Cullen were added when they had more than a year added on to the development time, and likely because the overall cost to implement it was deemed doable. So again, a late addition, but hardly a last minute addition, and likely scripted and planned before the VO work was even started. Again, how much romance content is even there, compared with the rest of their character content? Not a lot.

[Seboist]

Last I checked, that lacking TPS mechanics like roll didn't exist in ME either, and yet you don't seem to be criticizing that one.

Yeahm the import mechanic sucked. But Bioware's always had problems with that and has always tried to fix them. Thus the change to the Keep mechanic for DAI.

If it were a "dating sim" as you put it, I'd have expected things to go a great deal more in depth than either ME or DA goes.

Oh and there's an element of power fantasy here, but it's generally not from the part of the fan base that likes romances.

 

The lack of rolling and cover to cover was indeed a problem in ME1, but that can be excused by being a first entry and attempt at such a genre by this company, ME2 OTOH, with it's lack of pretense of being an RPG and being a second entry, cannot be excused at all.

 

ME/DA not being actual dating sims doesn't phase the "romance" obsessed from treating it like it is, that said "romance" content is brief, and quite frankly, laughably written("da priiiiiize") doesn't either. One would think it was a big part of the game, given how i've seen 5+ threads on the front page of the DAI board in the past on it.

 

If BW had any sense, they'd cut down on the "romance" content on their games and purge their forums of this taint on the reputation of their brand, that a gives a very false impression of what their games are about. They're a complete laughing stock through out the internet because of it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, see Ariella's reply above... but otherwise, Solas and Cullen were added when they had more than a year added on to the development time, and likely because the overall cost to implement it was deemed doable. So again, a late addition, but hardly a last minute addition, and likely scripted and planned before the VO work was even started. Again, how much romance content is even there, compared with the rest of their character content? Not a lot.

.-.

Speculatively fair I guess, given I have no notion of budget and its allocation during DAI's build process.

But that's all it is, speculation. Assumption that it didn't cost additional resources, finance, and time.

After all, at one point that entire game was to be human PC only, that was mid development cycle, and I'd assume changing that to four only added to resources needed for completion.

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm not, but this back and forth hardly changes that either way unless evidence surfaces one way or another.

[Lady Artifice]

No one should waste too much time concerned with what the internet thinks. The internet is mostly stupid. 

[FKA_Servo]

.-.

Speculatively fair I guess, given I have no notion of budget and its allocation during DAI's build process.

But that's all it is, speculation. Assumption that it didn't cost additional resources, finance, and time.

I was about to post essentially the same thing in the other direction, but you beat me to the punch.

In any case, I'm sure they've laid it out at some point.

[Il Divo]

The lack of rolling and cover to cover was indeed a problem in ME1, but that can be excused by being a first entry and attempt at such a genre by this company, ME2 OTOH, with it's lack of pretense of being an RPG and being a second entry, cannot be excused at all.

 

 

That's a pretty bad excuse. First attempts at a genre don't magically turn bad mechanics into good any more than, say, knowing KotOR 2's history turns the non-sensical ending into a good one. I don't enjoy KotOR 2's end-sequence more, simply because I knew Lucas Arts suddenly cut their release date down. 

[Ariella]

The lack of rolling and cover to cover was indeed a problem in ME1, but that can be excused by being a first entry and attempt at such a genre by this company, ME2 OTOH, with it's lack of pretense of being an RPG and being a second entry, cannot be excused at all.

Or it can be excused due to the fact that this game isn't a TPS.

ME/DA not being actual dating sims doesn't phase the "romance" obsessed from treating it like it is, that said "romance" content is brief, and quite frankly, laughably written("da priiiiiize") doesn't either. One would think it was a big part of the game, given how i've seen 5+ threads on the front page of the DAI board in the past on it.

So the hell what? Wow, people talk about things they happen to like. You do know the term fan comes from the term fanatic, right?

If BW had any sense, they'd cut down on the "romance" content on their games and purge their forums of this taint on the reputation of their brand, that a gives a very false impression of what their games are about. They're a complete laughing stock through out the internet because of it.

Yeah, like the internet is the bastion of wisdom and culture? And you take one website as proof? You're joking, right?

You know, if Bioware RPGs aren't to your taste? The door is that way.

[Master Warder Z_]

Warder, I understand that you're frustrated with the insidious creeping of cultural sensitivity into the fictional landscape, but we don't need to be paying attention to labels to find the scene in question weird. FemShep drips seduction all over Jacob the very moment she speaks to him in ME2. It's enough to find it an unprofessional way to address a subordinate, and something that shouldn't be assumed about a protagonist that is presented as a competent military officer.

Well at least she sounded less bored then ya know ME3, there is that.

[KaiserShep]

I didn't think she sounded bored, at least no more than her counterpart. 

[Angry_Elcor]

In any case, I'm sure they've laid it out at some point.

 

They most certainly have not, and they never will. And they are correct not to do so for many reasons, not the least of which is that budgets broken down by "romance content" simply don't make sense. You could probably find numbers for voice/word budgets, but that will never give you details regarding the specific costs of writing or recording content for romances.

 

Not that I expect the numbers would be particularly high, but speculating on their cost/benefits is essentially fantasy. It's doubtful the shareholders would even be able to give an educated guess.

 

Or it can be excused due to the fact that this game isn't a TPS.

 

 

I... have no idea how to respond to this.

[Angry_Elcor]

Oh, wait, yes I do:

 

 

Literally the first Google result.

[Ariella]

Oh, wait, yes I do:
 

 
Literally the first Google result.

Nice try. ME is an RPG. And to be clear that's role playing game, not roll playing game.

Tps is just the combat mechanic used in the game, it is not the be all end all of ME.

[KaiserShep]

Nice try. ME is an RPG. And to be clear that's role playing game, not roll playing game.

Tps is just the combat mechanic used in the game, it is not the be all end all of ME.

 

I think it's fair to say that it's a hybrid of the two. With multiplayer now a part of the game, the TPS part is a bigger component than it used to be. 

[Angry_Elcor]

Nice try. ME is an RPG. And to be clear that's role playing game, not roll playing game.

Tps is just the combat mechanic used in the game, it is not the be all end all of ME.

 

Of course. Nothing that is one thing could also be another thing. How silly of me.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Nice try. ME is an RPG. And to be clear that's role playing game, not roll playing game.

Tps is just the combat mechanic used in the game, it is not the be all end all of ME.

 

Wikipedia entry for Mass Effect describing it as an "action role-playing third person shooter video game."

 

You realize that you are arguing that the definitions don't apply because you say so? 

[Ariella]

I think it's fair to say that it's a hybrid of the two. With multiplayer now a part of the game, the TPS part is a bigger component than it used to be.

But it's not the focus of the game.

On the talking points on the box of the original, which is where this conversation devolved from, say the following:

Customize your character and embark on an epic adventure, with an immersive open ended storyline.

Interplanetary exploration of an epic proportion.

Incredible real time character interaction

Thrilling tactical combat where you lead an elite team of three.

Combat wasn't exactly the top sell there.

There's more to it than that even. The addtion of multiplayer doesn't really change the fact that the philosophy that drives these games is based in rpgs.

The lines blur more and more but pretending that the Mass Effect franchise was ever meant to be a pure tps like say Gears of War is silly.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The lines blur more and more but pretending that the Mass Effect franchise was ever meant to be a pure tps like say Gears of War is silly.

 

I don't think anyone but you used the term "pure TPS."

 

What is a "pure TPS?" 

[KaiserShep]

What is a "pure TPS?" 

 

The perfect shooter. You should be in awe. 

[Ariella]

Wikipedia entry for Mass Effect describing it as an "action role-playing third person shooter video game."
 
You realize that you are arguing that the definitions don't apply because you say so? 

No, more like I'm discussing the place of the tps mechanic. ME was marketed as an RPG.

If you take a look at the product details for ME the first sentence is:

'Mass Effect' is a science fiction action and role playing game created by Bioware, the commercially and critically acclaimed developer of Jade Empire and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

This is taken from Gamestop. The entire first paragraph is about the story. Combat doesn't get a mention until paragraph 13, and it only mentioned the tps mechanic in paragraph sixteen.

Oh and it's listed in the rpg catagory, not tps. Bioware wasn't marketing the game as a tps, because combat isn't the focus. It's a mechanic.

[Angry_Elcor]

With multiplayer now a part of the game, the TPS part is a bigger component than it used to be. 

 

Over 90% of the single player campaign of all 3 games is TPS, so the multiplayer component would be negligible in the calculation, ultimately.

 

But it's not the focus of the game.

 

Not sure what you mean, but the perspective used for the gameplay is third person. If you don't believe me, I'd recommend playing it again and looking for yourself.

 

The lines blur more and more but pretending that the Mass Effect franchise was ever meant to be a pure tps like say Gears of War is silly.

 

Oh, good. I had worried that people would stop putting words in my mouth. I never mentioned Gears of War, nor suggested that being a Third Person Shooter precluded being a role-playing game.

[Ariella]

I don't think anyone but you used the term "pure TPS."
 
What is a "pure TPS?" 

I would think it should be obvious.

Halo, Gears, Call of Duty, Doom.

Games where the focus is on combat first. That's not Mass Effect.