1315 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The perfect shooter. You should be in awe. 

 

 

No, more like I'm discussing the place of the tps mechanic.

 

You're saying that a game that uses the TPS mechanic only counts as a TPS game if you say so.

 

'Mass Effect' is a science fiction action and role playing game created by Bioware

 

That sounds like BioWare thinks that a game can be more than one thing at once. Why don't you?

 

This is taken from Gamestop. The entire first paragraph is about the story. Combat doesn't get a mention until paragraph 13, and it only mentioned the tps mechanic in paragraph sixteen.

 

I honestly have no idea why any of that would be relevant.

 

Oh and it's listed in the rpg catagory, not tps.

 

By whom?

 

Obviously Wikipedia doesn't count because "you say so."

 

Bioware wasn't marketing the game as a tps

 

BioWare doesn't market it as a romance story. Or a political drama. Or a story about a hero. Or a story about a villain. Or a challenging moral quandary. Or a contrast between pragmatic self-interest and altruistic diplomacy-simulator.

 

But that doesn't mean that it isn't also those things.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I would think it should be obvious.

Halo, Gears, Call of Duty, Doom.

 

You haven't played these games, have you?

 

Games where the focus is on combat first. That's not Mass Effect.

 

Could you link a definition of Third Person Shooter that defines it as a game focused on combat?

 

And honestly, the only way that role-playing eclipses exploration and combat in third-person in the Mass Effect trilogy is if you heavily mod it. The commercially available version of the game contains a majority of third person exploration and combat.

[Angry_Elcor]

I would think it should be obvious.

Halo, Gears, Call of Duty, Doom.

 

You just cited the two most famous first person shooters in your definition of "pure third person shooter."

[pdusen]

Is that done for initially unplanned romances as well? It's my understanding, those aren't part of allotted dialogues initially to be recorded.

 

That is true of *any* dialogue that was initially unplanned, not just romances, so singling out romances for that complaint makes no sense.

[Umaya]

Romance is the only thing that's holding back Bioware form evolving into a more glorious form.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Romance is the only thing that's holding back Bioware form evolving into a more glorious form.

 

 

 

Become one with the fuzzy, BioWare, and ascend!

[Lady Artifice]

I interpreted Ariella's point as primarily suggesting that ME is an rpg first and foremost. Which really, I don't think is necessarily such an outrageous opinion to have, syntax aside. 

 

I don't think that excuses it from aspiring to a higher caliber of combat mechanics, mind. 

[Lady Artifice]

Romance is the only thing that's holding back Bioware form evolving into a more glorious form.

 

What form?

[Master Warder Z_]

I interpreted Ariella's point as primarily suggesting that ME is an rpg first and foremost. Which really, I don't think is necessarily such an outrageous opinion to have, syntax aside.

The phrasing and message was wrong then. 75% of all 3 games is combat related.

In which you shoot people...in third person

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I interpreted Ariella's point as primarily suggesting that ME is an rpg first and foremost.

 

I didn't find an example of that specific statement on its own merit (given the definitive repetition that it was "not a TPS") but I would dispute it, regardless. The entire game is designed using TPS perspective. It's not really something that has anything to do with whether a game is an RPG, it's a basic design element. Dismissing it on the basis that it defines Mass Effect as a "combat focused" game (repeatedly stated) really has nothing to do with what the term TPS means.

 

I have to say, I can pretty confidently say she doesn't know what "TPS" means. Her examples of "pure TPS" included Doom (the most famous First Person Shooter of all time) and Call of Duty (the currently recognized definitive "First Person Shooter.")

 

It's pretty hard to argue semantics are the problem at that point.

[Lady Artifice]

::waves white flag:: 

 

I'm not making any claims about the appropriateness of terms. It's been pretty covered on this and the last page. I only say anything to suggest that this discussion might be a little too bogged down by semantics at this point to go anywhere remotely productive.

 

I do see your point. I just think that the nature of hers wasn't just about what the genre is called, but also about what it means for designing the combat system. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would think it should be obvious.

Halo, Gears, Call of Duty, Doom.

Games where the focus is on combat first. That's not Mass Effect.

I wouldn't say Halo would fit under the definition then, since Bungie and especially 343 Industries have always strived to have it be as much about telling a good story as the gameplay. It's sort of the reverse of Mass Effect, with ME being an RPG with Shooter-level gameplay and Halo a Shooter with RPG-level story. 

 

Plus Halo is a First-Person Shooter, not Third-Person. It only goes Third-Person when in a vehicle or using a heavy weapon.  

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

::waves white flag:: 

 

I'm not making any claims about the appropriateness of terms. It's been pretty covered on this and the last page. I only say anything to suggest that this discussion might be a little too bogged down by semantics at this point to go anywhere remotely productive.

 

I do see your point. I just think that the nature of hers wasn't just about what the genre is called, but also about what it means for designing the combat system. 

 

I would have a similar reaction to someone describing it as a "dating simulator." It's an unfair simplification based on a personal bias.

 

I'm not denying the RPG elements. I don't think anyone is. As I said, I honestly don't think "semantics" are even the issue. I suspect the issue is largely similar to those who decry the existence of MP, or the existence of non-human romances, or the existence of romances at all.

 

I have never hesitated to criticize Mass Effect. Nothing is perfect. But Mass Effect is a blend of genres. It is everything mentioned here and more. The idea that the combat is some kind of secondary element is... it requires denying some fundamental achievements by the BioWare staff, which includes blending a brilliant Third Person Shooter with role-playing, resource management, morality, and science fiction.

[Seboist]

Or it can be excused due to the fact that this game isn't a TPS.
 

 

ME not a TPS? I was imagining that third person camera and all that pew pew?

 

 

 

 

So the hell what? Wow, people talk about things they happen to like. You do know the term fan comes from the term fanatic, right?

 

Fanatic would be the apt word for someone that focuses on a minute thing that's what, 5-10 minutes of content at most in a game that takes dozens of hours to complete?

 

It'd be as absurd as going to a Tekken forum and seeing most of the discussion being about playing barbie dress up in the character customization, but even that's not an apt comparison, as that's a bigger part of those games than "romance" is in this.

 

 

 

Yeah, like the internet is the bastion of wisdom and culture? And you take one website as proof? You're joking, right?

 

Plenty of websites laugh at the bsn actually, with that link bringing on the funnies in most of them.

 

Although to be fair, there's plenty of lulz to be had on here beyond the romance weirdness, like the indoctrination "theory", which had me laughing so hard on numerous occasions that I almost choked.

 

 

 

You know, if Bioware RPGs aren't to your taste? The door is that way.

 

Apparently Bioware RPGs aren't to my liking since I've played ME2 and 3 instead of them. The former is especially no more of an RPG than Call of Duty: Black Ops III.

[Angry_Elcor]

This is definitely the most entertaining thread I've ever made.

 

 

YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO

[Umaya]

 

 

Become one with the fuzzy, BioWare, and ascend!

 

Stupid Anime.

 

 

What form?

 

a one that dosen't have bizzare "romance" in it.

 

This is definitely the most entertaining thread I've ever made.

 

Yup.you know life's hard when you're gf is 2d.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Stupid Anime.

 

What's an Anime?

[Heimdall]

Plenty of websites laugh at the bsn actually, with that link bringing on the funnies in most of them.

Well, that link was about the Tali sweat thing, so that's kinda unfair. That was really weird even by BSN standards.

[Umaya]

What's an Anime?

 

Japanese stuff i assume.

[Seraphim24]

Have yalls ever considered that romance is a state of mind rather than ordered necessarily specific person or a set of interactions?

 

You can still have romance but it doesn't have to be so explicit, that's realy the essential difference.

 

This is how you harmonize the viewpoints and different perspective, I sense there is a padawa out there skilled enough in the force to grasp my meaning.

 

Unless of course, you just want explicit romance because you want (*cough* need) things to be more boring.

[Angry_Elcor]

 

Japanese stuff i assume.

 

 

But thank you for playing.

 

Have yalls ever considered that romance is a state of mind rather than ordered necessarily specific person or a set of interactions?

 

Or (drum roll) both.

 

You can still have romance but it doesn't have to be so explicit, that's realy the essential difference.

 

The difference between what?

 

This is how you harmonize the viewpoints and different perspective, I sense there is a padawa out there skilled enough in the force to grasp my meaning.

 

I'm no Padawa, because I haven't the foggiest clue what your meaning is.

 

Unless of course, you just want explicit romance because you want (*cough* need) things to be more boring.

 

This sounds less like harmonizing views, and more like shaming people who disagree with you.

[Lady Artifice]

Have yalls ever considered that romance is a state of mind rather than ordered necessarily specific person or a set of interactions?

 

You can still have romance but it doesn't have to be so explicit, that's realy the essential difference.

 

This is how you harmonize the viewpoints and different perspective, I sense there is a padawa out there skilled enough in the force to grasp my meaning.

 

Unless of course, you just want explicit romance because you want (*cough* need) things to be more boring.

 

I'll try this again. Not seeing eye to eye with you, does not necessarily indicate any failing in comprehension. 

[Angry_Elcor]

Yup.you know life's hard when you're gf is 2d.

 

If my 2d girlfriend makes me hard, well then, by golly, she's working as intended!

[Lady Artifice]

a one that dosen't have bizzare "romance" in it.

 

To clarify though, is it "romance" in general you find bizarre, or just the ones in these games? 

 

Also, are the air quotes there to suggest that it is somehow a misleading or inaccurate term for the phenomenon? 

[Lady Artifice]

If my 2d girlfriend makes me hard, well then, by golly, she's working as intended!

 

10/10.