1315 réponses à ce sujet

[Malthier]

Actually the bigger issue is Bioware itself is kind of drifting... like Kirby, Chee, Gaider, Kristjansen, these are some of their most talented people but all the names I see everywhere these days are Weekes, Karpyshyn... etc..

 

I'm not saying those others aren't interesting or something (please don't be offended if you guys read this somehow or something), they simply create things that are more like what I get in other media, thus the identity has been shifting really since the EA moment, and they haven't really fully realized their past identity since then it seems to me.

 

Of course, the doctors are long since gone.

 

As fraustrating as that may be for a player following them since the beginning, it pales into comparison to the neverending riot that this pretty much all these main, sub, and MP forums, including possibly the feedback and other forums.

 

For example I look funny to you Kaisershep, but wait until all the MP players swarm this place with balance issues or whatever, I can very much predict it'll possibly happen, and then you will be wishing all you had was what it is now with the occasional meteoric troll.

 

The reason DA2 and ME3 were such splashes is because they're pretty good games that had a pretty big budget and marketing campaign, unfortunately all that did was bring them into contact with people who hate them more than respect them. Actually that probably started the moment they went console.. I don't know all the details.

 

Anyway, when I listen to the interviews with game developers, I'm still like you know these guys (and gals!) are cool, it's really a disservice to them and their talent to pay too much heed to this place, I guess would be my point, or smething. Getting rid of it all entirely might be a good way to achieve that, the fans that really follow them can find other ways like conventions and stuff.

 

Even that ruddy old Bioware forum that I visited time to time was pretty entertaining, what with the silly avatars and all that.

 

They don't pay much heed to this place. Thinking that they do is just narcissistic. 

[Seraphim24]

They don't pay much heed to this place. Thinking that they do is just narcissistic. 

 

How the heck should I know? Well then good for them, in theory it would be a nice thing to interact and engage with fans, but the reality is the only comments people tend to support here are ones that just undercut and undercut and are vitriolic, heck I posted a vid in some other thread like some fan video with music that was pretty cool. Nope, not a thing, no one cares unless it starts with "romance" "Bioware sucks" or something like that.

 

Honestly, maybe rather than tell them they should shut down at least a few forums, it's really up to them. My thinking was though they are (mostly?) kind of part of a different era where the internet isn't this weapon used soley to hurt people before treating back across cyber-space with that air of faux invincibility. Where people look up to the people waving their likes like they actually achieved something other than groupthink.

 

It's kind of been an issue for a long time, with fans, and their relationship with the creators, the fact that they keep creeping closer and closer and closer, but this place is positively the last straw, or it would be if I was wanting to create a different environment. I don't know if I'll still personally encourage that to them in one form or another or whatever, but odds are being lax will simply cause it to get worse.

 

I remember hearing about Chris Metzen talk about the story forums though and how they would get "killed" and how much it hurt him though because people would just get after them for the smallest things... Blizzard took a massive brunt of that and I'm kind of sensing it's possibly just going to get worse for Bioware.

 

As as I know, David Gaider and all these people are still humans with feelings (which is why for example I simply said Karpyshyn and Weekes weren't really that unique thing I was looking, rather than try and make it personal and something really hurtful)

 

Pushing that aside, it's all mostly just unproductive, people focus on the tiniest and picayune things at the expense of the bigger picture, so at best, the feedback or commentary is just kind of like... what value can you even take from the fact that there was a quirk in your inventory that produced X or Y? And if it's  more substantial, people tend to flow... honestly I don't know what I'm saying, it's all stuff DG said himself awhile back, so maybe you are right and this can be some popcorn potshot landfield.

 

And not to mention it's overwhelmingly skewed towards DA2/ME3 fans, which are their weaker games, there is like this tiny group of before that point fans but they seem mostly just overwhelmed or something.

 

But whatever, I guess that's all everyone here's issues and concerns now going forward.

[Malthier]

How the heck should I know? Well then good for them, in theory it would be a nice thing to interact and engage with fans, but the reality is the only comments people tend to support here are ones that just undercut and undercut and are vitriolic, heck I posted a vid in some other thread like some fan video with music that was pretty cool. Nope, not a thing, no one cares unless it starts with "romance" "Bioware sucks" or something like that.

 

Honestly, maybe rather than tell them they should shut down at least a few forums, it's really up to them. My thinking was though they are (mostly?) kind of part of a different era where the internet isn't this weapon used soley to hurt people before treating back across cyber-space with that air of faux invincibility. Where people look up to the people waving their likes like they actually achieved something other than groupthink.

 

It's kind of been an issue for a long time, with fans, and their relationship with the creators, the fact that they keep creeping closer and closer and closer, but this place is positively the last straw, or it would be if I was wanting to create a different environment. I don't know if I'll still personally encourage that to them in one form or another or whatever, but odds are being lax will simply cause it to get worse.

 

I remember hearing about Chris Metzen talk about the story forums though and how they would get "killed" and how much it hurt him though because people would just get after them for the smallest things... Blizzard took a massive brunt of that and I'm kind of sensing it's possibly just going to get worse for Bioware.

 

As as I know, David Gaider and all these people are still humans with feelings (which is why for example I simply said Karpyshyn and Weekes weren't really that unique thing I was looking, rather than try and make it personal and something really hurtful)

 

Pushing that aside, it's all mostly just unproductive, people focus on the tiniest and picayune things at the expense of the bigger picture, so at best, the feedback or commentary is just kind of like... what value can you even take from the fact that there was a quirk in your inventory that produced X or Y? And if it's  more substantial, people tend to flow... honestly I don't know what I'm saying, it's all stuff DG said himself awhile back, so maybe you are right and this can be some popcorn potshot landfield.

 

And not to mention it's overwhelmingly skewed towards DA2/ME3 fans, which are their weaker games, there is like this tiny group of before that point fans but they seem mostly just overwhelmed or something.

 

But whatever, I guess that's all everyone here's issues and concerns now going forward.

 

Of course its unproductive. Its just conversation. Theres no point trying to make it out to be anything more significant than that. 

[Laughing_Man]

@Asellus112

 

Well, instead of whining about unfair criticism and toxicity on the forums, if Bioware really cared, they could have made specific ways (polls, surveys, general questions) for fans to write constructive feedback, and it would have helped if they actually demonstrated that they listen at least to some of it.

[Seraphim24]

Of course its unproductive. Its just conversation. Theres no point trying to make it out to be anything more significant than that. 

 

I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to defend it all, it leads me to believe you might actually agree with me on some level, but if you want, you can, for me though, a spade is a spade and like I said, knock yourselves out, I guess. For me though, I really will try and convince them of that... I might not, but one way or another, I'll probably not be joining that conversation as you so call it.

 

@Asellus112

 

Well, instead of whining about unfair criticism and toxicity on the forums, if Bioware really cared, they could have made specific ways (polls, surveys, general questions) for fans to write constructive feedback, and it would have helped if they actually demonstrated that they listen at least to some of it.

 

Look I'm not the hardest core Bioware fan out there eh? Is this some kind of situation that just needs the different sides to hug it out? I know DG himself would post here a lot. Did he say something mean to someone? Agian, how the heck should I know.

 

The fans support the developers and games with attention and their own money, it's obviously an important relationship for both. Maybe by being one of the first revolting fan bases, it can also be one of the first to find a solution eh?

 

The bigger thing I'm concerned with is the integrity of the gaming sphere generally, which includes Bioware and others, and for whatever reason the churlishness and insult ridden nature of this place would make most 10 year olds blush, that part, I know for a fact.

 

Is it that deep down no one wants to suggest the anal sex focused seasoned space general romance partner? Is no one asking the hard questions about the morality of the Bioware universe? I don't ask that to be intentionally goofy, I mean quite literally, I don't care, I have no interest in seeing really anything other than some kind of resolution.

 

And, if there is to be no resolution, I'd rather not see anything at all, whether they themselves share that opinion.. who can say.

[Suketchi]

...DO YOU PEOPLE WANT ROMANCES OR NOT.

[Laughing_Man]

...DO YOU PEOPLE WANT ROMANCES OR NOT.

 

Either make them amazing, with enough writing time, interactions and animations, or don't make them at all.

[Seraphim24]

...DO YOU PEOPLE WANT ROMANCES OR NOT.

 

I can tell you that the less overt the "romance" the better the experience, but since almost everyone here finds that overwhelmingly vague or heretical, at least listen to those who seem  to sense this on some level and translate these ideas into BSNspeak.. Exile, Pasquale,  Divo, Natashina, Berelinde....

 

There also those who do not quite understand but seem eager to follow... Artifice, Liam.

 

Like Morrigan has a romance right? But when people read that it's like "did she?" She kind of does right, but it's more vague, it's kind of hidden. Alistair or Zevran it's like POP EM WITH GIFTS GET SEX. 

 

Vivienne is also pretty sexy character, even though she doesn't have an explicit "romance," it doesn't make her any less attractive or desirable.

[Laughing_Man]

Is this some kind of situation that just needs the different sides to hug it out?

 

I know DG himself would post here a lot. Did he say something mean to someone?.\

 

It's hardly as simple as "hugging it out", not to mention the logistics involved are somewhat difficult...

 

The problem was never something specific Gaider said, the problem is that many fans feel varying degrees of disappointment towards BW,

some may even feel somewhat betrayed, others are simply disillusioned.

 

Is that unreasonable? Maybe, maybe not. Still the facts remain.

[Seraphim24]

It's hardly as simple as "hugging it out", not to mention the logistics involved are somewhat difficult...

 

The problem was never something specific Gaider said, the problem is that many fans feel varying degrees of disappointment towards BW,

some may even feel somewhat betrayed, others are simply disillusioned.

 

Is that unreasonable? Maybe, maybe not. Still the facts remain.

 

I think perhaps both fans and developers simply need to be more clear about what they like or dislike, it's not like, impossible that it's a direct consequence of the games and experiences being less than.. well.. whatever they were before.

 

We all want to believe everything in life is progress, that there is nothing setting us back, that each game is better than the last, sometimes... sometimes.. that just isn't true.

 

But that doesn't mean the end, there can be new beginnings, excitement, rekindling of the spirit that made it all work in the first place, and whether that happens or not is really entirely up to all you people and doesn't really have anything to do with me. Maybe then, maybe there will then be an even better game. For many of course, their best games are the ones in front of them, but even they might have problems and things they wish could be better.

 

Besides, fraustration at the inability to finish the thing, the ME3 ending.. whatever... maybe that final sense of defeatism is exactly what binds the fans together? It might look or feel like it's a unique thing, like there was just this casual slip that ruined at all, but... that could itself be a character no? Perpetually on the brink of tragedy, defeat, or success, almost there, but not quite. So what if that category doesn't exist, it has thus been forged.

 

In fact, this ME3 ending thing mirrors, almost exactly, the situation involving Evangelion and it's fans way back when. Maybe instead of going, well all we needed to do is cross this final barrier that some person or another messed up, maybe go... maybe this is our point of commonality, we are just that, the people at the final barrier?

 

This doesn't suddenly diminish all that comes before, or color it in a different light, it just is, that point at the end. It takes a lot of skill and power to go that far, maybe be more concerned with the many others struggling on that journey who never made it that far, rather than wasting so much energy trying to puzzle what lies beyond, eh?

[Puddi III]

But that doesn't mean the end, there can be new beginnings, excitement, rekindling of the spirit that made it all work in the first place, and whether that happens or not is really entirely up to all you people and doesn't really have anything to do with me.

You're wrong. Only you can save us from the depths of our nihilism and despair.

Please don't abandon us.

[BENIIICHAT]

Set yourself free, developers.

 

 

 

Give in to the temptation, and let go. See what happens. Let the world see that BioWare can make a romance-free game without it having any significant impact on its success.

 

Free yourself from the resources needed to do all the extra voicover and writing.

 

Free yourself from the inescapable rage backlash over every romance detail.

 

Developers, set yourselves free.

 

 

 

without romance, Game will be shorter, less value to replay and developer will have to create new story/character/feature to fill that hole.

That mean more writing and voiceover. So what the point to remove romance?

 

If you don't want romance just say it loud and clear.

[Laughing_Man]

without romance, Game will be shorter, less value to replay and developer will have to create new story/character/feature to fill that hole.

That mean more writing and voiceover. So what the point to remove romance?

 

If you don't want romance just say it loud and clear.

 

That's the idea, more content for everyone.

 

"Romances" as they are are simply a boring low quality checklist of sexual orientations. (at least most of them)

So it is better to just let them go in favor of more "meat" story-wise if that's the best BW can do.

[blahblahblah]

That's the idea, more content for everyone.

 

"Romances" as they are are simply a boring low quality checklist of sexual orientations. (at least most of them)

So it is better to just let them go in favor of more "meat" story-wise if that's the best BW can do.

Just like removing inventory and exploration in ME2-ME3 since they are awful and it provides a "better" story, right?

[BobZilla84]

I don't necessarily disagree with OP truth be told....

 

But if we're getting em - they better do em right and balanced. I don't want another Liara. 

I agree Liara was shoved on you in ME3 she was in almost every scene and it was BS.

[Angry_Elcor]

without romance, Game will be shorter

 

There hasn't been an example of that in Mass Effect. Romance has virtually no impact on the length of the game.

 

If you don't want romance just say it loud and clear.

 

I do appreciate the advice, but I suspect the developers are capable of appreciating a more nuanced position regarding their approach to romances, as opposed to reducing it to a binary question.

 

I haven't brought up this particular point in a while, but there is a spectrum between "Romance is bad never add it to the game "and "Romance is good always add it to the game."

[Angry_Elcor]

This place is toast. I'm thinking of writing Bioware some form of serious reccomendation for them to just shut this entire place down.

 

You're awfully confident that BioWare is going to follow your personal recommendations. I'm less confident that they'd even read the e-mail, but you can try: contact@bioware.com

 

well.. as I've said, not going to waste really any more time on it.

 

You've said that so many times that I'm starting to wonder if you're living a localized version of Groundhog Day.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Hey, Elcor, I got a drinking game for you.

 

Go through the thread, and take a drink every time Asellus said she was going to quit.

 

Then compille the list, so we know how many drinks that is.

[Ahriman]

Hey, Elcor, I got a drinking game for you.

 

Go through the thread, and take a drink every time Asellus said she was going to quit.

 

Then compille the list, so we know how many drinks that is.

Do you think he'll be able to write anything after that?

[Corades]

No they didn't. You wouldn't be singing that tune romanced Jacob or Thane. 

 

Even worse because I was doing it for achievements and that literally just screwed me over on a gameplay level because I had already closed off Traynor. 

 

You're right, I wouldn't, because those were precisely two of the weakest written characters in ME (for me). That's why most players tend to go to Liara, Garrus or Tali, who had more interesting stories to tell, and more hilarious and well executed romance plots. 

 

You completed all romance for achievements? That's brave, man, I would not be able to stand Miranda or Jacob, it would feel I'm doing a disservice to my Shep 

[FKA_Servo]

Hey, Elcor, I got a drinking game for you.

 

Go through the thread, and take a drink every time Asellus said she was going to quit.

 

Then compille the list, so we know how many drinks that is.

Do you think he'll be able to write anything after that?

 

End of the day, any sort of drinking game based at all on BSN forum nonsense is going to be lethal.

[KaiserShep]

A sad fate indeed to get cirrhosis of the liver because of BSN.

[Dean_the_Young]

A sad fate indeed to get cirrhosis of the liver because of BSN.

 

Don't worry, I'll be fine.

[Synthetic Turian]

...DO YOU PEOPLE WANT ROMANCES OR NOT.

 

 Only if they include synthetics with fully functioning "organic like" modifications. 

[Commander Rpg]

End of the day, any sort of drinking game based at all on BSN forum nonsense is going to be lethal.

Being drunk assumes we all have a heart, that can pump both alcohol and blood.