1315 réponses à ce sujet

[FKA_Servo]

Being drunk assumes we all have a heart, that can pump both alcohol and blood.

No, I'm well aware that some of us are robots.

[Natureguy85]

without romance, Game will be shorter, less value to replay and developer will have to create new story/character/feature to fill that hole.

That mean more writing and voiceover. So what the point to remove romance?

 

If you don't want romance just say it loud and clear.

 

You answered your own question. If romance is removed, other content will be put in it's place. Therefore the game won't be shorter. How did the romances significantly increase game length? They were just a few dialogue scenes.

[Ahglock]

Being drunk assumes we all have a heart, that can pump both alcohol and blood.

alcohol is the fuel that keeps hearts pumping blood. Bacon grease lubricates the veins so less effort is needed by the heart.

[Youknow]

You're right, I wouldn't, because those were precisely two of the weakest written characters in ME (for me). That's why most players tend to go to Liara, Garrus or Tali, who had more interesting stories to tell, and more hilarious and well executed romance plots. 

 

You completed all romance for achievements? That's brave, man, I would not be able to stand Miranda or Jacob, it would feel I'm doing a disservice to my Shep 

Probably because the writers have/had a nasty tendency to shove their favorites in your face, which is what I'd argue is even worse writing than anything imaginable. Liara I feel is bar none the worst party member in the franchise and I found Garrus became incredibly obnoxious by 3. Imagine this, you don't like Liara, Tali and Garrus too much and the game shafts the ME2 party and gives you... Whoo... Not your favorites again.  I just rocked Vega and Javik most of the game because of it and ignored Liara for 90% of the game. 

 

Yes. And I felt Jacob's romance in ME2 is the best non-Kaidan romance in the series. It remembered what it was, a subplot, and you actually got to romance a non-broken man in both of them. The only MaleShep/female romance I liked was... Ashley in ME1. But to be fair, all of the romances are pretty sub-par. 

 

It sucks when you happen to like the characters that were less popular. 

[Natureguy85]

Probably because the writers have/had a nasty tendency to shove their favorites in your face, which is what I'd argue is even worse writing than anything imaginable. Liara I feel is bar none the worst party member in the franchise and I found Garrus became incredibly obnoxious by 3. Imagine this, you don't like Liara, Tali and Garrus too much and the game shafts the ME2 party and gives you... Whoo... Not your favorites again.  I just rocked Vega and Javik most of the game because of it and ignored Liara for 90% of the game. 

 

Yes. And I felt Jacob's romance in ME2 is the best non-Kaidan romance in the series. It remembered what it was, a subplot, and you actually got to romance a non-broken man in both of them. The only MaleShep/female romance I liked was... Ashley in ME1. But to be fair, all of the romances are pretty sub-par. 

 

It sucks when you happen to like the characters that were less popular. 

 

I didn't try it but most people I hear hate Jacob's romance. As far as them not being broken, they also have no personality.

[General TSAR]

BioWare Romances are terrible. 

[FKA_Servo]

BioWare Romances are terrible. 

 

Not universally. Not even generally. That being said, there's always room for improvement.

[General TSAR]

Not universally. Not even generally. That being said, there's always room for improvement.

Pretty much universally and definitely generally.

 

Poor writing will do that. 

 

Edit-Now P.ss is considered offensive? Jeez BioWare, you put worse things in your games but you're so puritanical on the forums. 

[FKA_Servo]

Pretty much universally and definitely generally.

 

Poor writing will do that. 

 

Edit-Now P.ss is considered offensive? Jeez BioWare, you put worse things in your games but you're so puritanical on the forums. 

 

The profanity filter has stupid priorities.

 

In any case, each one I've done has been rewarding in its own way, but some of them are terrific. Alistair, Morrigan, Solas come to mind especially.

 

The universal criticism of their writing that some people offer up is still largely baffling to me. I'll buy "poor writing" when it comes to the big stuff. At times, Bioware has dropped that ball right on our feet. But the littler stuff - the characters, the character interactions, the background world building, and yeah, the romances - are great. Stronger than they've ever been in Inquisition, I think.

[CronoDragoon]

Let me think about the ones I've done.

 

Liara: Shadow Broker is great, but her ME3 stuff is just ok.

Tali: Pretty great all around. Explores quarian culture a bit more and her ME3 is well-integrated into both Rannoch and her character arc.

Garrus: Eh, was his romance really that good? Seemed like most of it was just him being his normal charming witty self. Didn't feel like it deepened his character development.

Morrigan/Alistair: I think these are pretty generally well-regarded as being well-written, and I'd agree.

Merrill: ...Pretty bad, imo. Not a fan of her character in general, though.

Isabela: Very good, particularly for Rivalry. Deepens her character quite a bit.

Cassandra: Not bad but nothing special. You get a bit more depth into her feeling of helplessness.

Solas: Yeah, this one's pretty good.

Bastila: Plays in very well with the Light/Dark side discussion in the game and becomes very relevant to the plot towards the end.

Silk Fox: Rushed, just like everything in the 20 hour game that was Jade Empire. You go from strangers to soul mates in like 5 hours.

Viconia: Terrific, and the epilogue blurb is unbeaten.

Jaheira: Her sense of the guilt and the way the romance turns for the worse if you have sex with her too soon do a good job of capturing the slow burn the romance has to be.

 

So, have I just had good luck? Some of those too sappy for some? Sure, I can buy that. A lot of romance is sappy, after all.

[Synthetic Turian]

Still waiting for that 'EDI leaves Joker' so I can romance her mod

[Lady Artifice]

The profanity filter has stupid priorities.

In any case, each one I've done has been rewarding in its own way, but some of them are terrific. Alistair, Morrigan, Solas come to mind especially.

The universal criticism of their writing that some people offer up is still largely baffling to me. I'll buy "poor writing" when it comes to the big stuff. At times, Bioware has dropped that ball right on our feet. But the littler stuff - the characters, the character interactions, the background world building, and yeah, the romances - are great. Stronger than they've ever been in Inquisition, I think.

I think it's mostly just in vogue to be hyper critical, and being so often makes people feel intellectually superior. It's the idea of scarcity implicitly indicating higher value: "If my good opinion is rarely bestowed, it's more worth the earning."

That isn't to say that everyone who looks down on the romances are motivated by pretension, some of them might be holding it to a standard that doesn't really fit the genre/format, like literature.

These subplots have to work within the scope of a larger, action driven story. People rarely offer examples of what they would consider superior romantic content from sources that are remotely on equal footing with an action rpg.

[Puddi III]

I think bad feelings about other aspects of the story can bleed over onto the whole thing as well. Like if you enjoy an anime most of the way through but then the ending is terrible and butchers the manga like Akame ga Kill, that means the whole anime retroactively sucks.

Of course if you want to talk about infamous endings related to BW, that's pretty obvious.

I thought the ending of Inq was fairly rushed and unsatisfying too, but I haven't done the true ending DLCs yet or whatever.

[Seboist]

Nah man, there's a reason why the romance section was closed for nearly two years. It wasn't just because the Miranda fans went full retard, that was just the straw that broke the camels back, the romance section was already living on borrowed time due to the toxicity it brought to BSN, arguments over there would end up spilling over into other parts of the forum.

 

Thankfully the worst offenders have long left BSN, so it's much calmer here now, but back then it was a cesspit. 

 

I've seen some stuff back in the day in the romance/character section, from talimancers discussing the notion of having anal sex with Tali, to the weird Liara lesbian contingent that would get all butthurt over people posting about male shepard 'mancing her, including one loon that considered it rape. T'was interesting to see how the only real active character threads were the ones that could be 'manced, while the ones that couldn't be only had a handful of pages to their topics.

 

Any company that half-way cared about the reputation of their brand would've gone full scorched earth on the section the moment they saw bizarre nonsense like that and limited the amount of "romances" in their games as a result, not continue to add more and more in each title like with DA.

 

If i was some kind of game writer or designer, i'd be be pretty annoyed seeing people care more about what's essentially a brief mini-game at most as opposed to the main story or game mechanics. That the bulk of this part of the fanbase abandoned the forum after the ME3 ending debacle spoke volumes of where their interest truly was.

[Corades]

I see the fandom exploding if they were to release a dlc focused solely on romances. 

[pdusen]

My experience is that people here will criticize any character they don't like personally as poorly written, and furthermore, people here will not like a character for all kinds of absurd reasons.

 

For example: the amount of hate that Cassandra gets for her religious affinity, despite the fact that she *completely accepts* the player character's atheism.

[Shechinah]

 That the bulk of this part of the fanbase abandoned the forum after the ME3 ending debacle spoke volumes of where their interest truly was.

 

Oh, I quite agree; I've always found it more than a bit silly how some people seem to think that a great number of the people who were upset with the ending were so because of how it affected romances and the lack of a 'happy ending' instead of being about how it affected the story.

 

I mean, there were documents spanning over twenty pages written with critique detailing to anything from the asethetic of the scenes to questioning the sense of the dialogue to in-depth analysis of the plot holes and even how it seemed to alter the pre-existent themes of the series.

 

That, to me, seemed to speak volumes of how a great deal of people's interest laid in the story and not simply in the romances especially since some of the aforementioned documents were collaborations with arguments, critiques and such taken from other fans.

 

It always seemed a bit silly to me how some people seemed to try and shave down some people's critique of the ending down to; "You just wanted a happy ending with your love interest" and balantly ignore their arguments, concerns and points. It was true for some, yes, but to make it seem like it was the case for all unhappy with the ending and that the people who it did not apply to were some sort of minority seems ridiculous to me.  
 

[Angry_Elcor]

Being drunk assumes we all have a heart, that can pump both alcohol and blood.

 

Just a quick primer on biology: people who don't have a heart had better be in the middle of a heart transplant operation, because otherwise they're not going to live long enough to read what you wrote. Whether one is drunk or not isn't really dependent on having a heart beyond the whole "otherwise you'd be dead" factor.

[Quarian Master Race]

to the weird Liara lesbian contingent that would get all butthurt over people posting about male shepard 'mancing her, including one loon that considered it rape. T'was interesting to see how the only real active character threads were the ones that could be 'manced, while the ones that couldn't be only had a handful of pages to their topics.

Haha, that's brilliant, I somehow missed that contingent of crazies, unfortunately.

There was something similar in the Garrus and Tali threads. Due to some inexplicable Die for our Ship nonsense combined with how their unromanced character arcs progresses in ME3, lots of the rabid Garrus/Talimancers hated the other character and had murder-death-kill fantasies against them, and I specifically remember several Garrusmancers often referring to Tali as "X" in a sort of she who must not be mentioned kind of manner while constructing their murder fanfics/"art".

Really nice as a casual fan of the series to go into a character thread wanting to discuss said character in the fashion of a normal consumer only to be greeted by a horde of escaped mental patients.

[Angry_Elcor]

Really nice as a casual fan of the series to go into a character thread wanting to discuss said character in the fashion of a normal consumer only to be greeted by a horde of escaped mental patients.

 

BSN is certainly not for the faint of heart. On the upside, the experience has made me a lot less likely to get phased by internet insanity. If that is actually an upside.

[fhs33721]

Still waiting for that 'EDI leaves Joker' so I can romance her mod

But then you'd have to contend for EDIs affection with Samantha. And let's face it you're not gonna win against that british accent .

[karushna5]

My experience is that people here will criticize any character they don't like personally as poorly written, and furthermore, people here will not like a character for all kinds of absurd reasons.

 

For example: the amount of hate that Cassandra gets for her religious affinity, despite the fact that she *completely accepts* the player character's atheism.

 

Agreed, I do feel some characters seem under developed, but there seems to be a lot of hate towards them due to extra factrs. I mean I hate Solas as a character and plot device, but I have to admit he was well written.

 

I feel most of the characters in DA2 were a bit 2 dimensional but that has a lot to do with how rushed the game was. 

[Commander Rpg]

Just a quick primer on biology: people who don't have a heart had better be in the middle of a heart transplant operation, because otherwise they're not going to live long enough to read what you wrote. Whether one is drunk or not isn't really dependent on having a heart beyond the whole "otherwise you'd be dead" factor.

Oh the allegory! this now unknown and once true friend.

[Seraphim24]

I gotta say I barely remember what I wrote the previous few days, it felt really inspired though.

 

Think I just kind of am over a lot of the fan thing in general... or maybe just the fan thing here... or whatever.. everywhere I go all the games and things that interest me all I often see is venom or venal attachments and stuff. It's not just here, the Legion cinematic for WoW was like "Whoa!" and then you go to the forums and it's all "WoW is dead," and of course they all buy the game anyway. Same here, every single person here probably pretty much is buying Andromeda, even if they put Colonel Sanders in as the lead romance, actually, especially if they put Colonel Sanders in as the lead romance. He would say things like "All the chicken you need!" while firing off lasers at invading forces.

 

Like watch this

 

ME is a pretty solid trilogy! What a trip!

 

Ok now watch no one be able to say the same thing, it's like a geass compels people against compliments or something.

 

Even the internet in general, just so many wrong opinions posited as fact it makes my head spin, would rather just play the actual games and leave all this behind than try to make heads of tails of it. Sometimes people just spout nonsense I guess.

 

Mostly, they just seemed trapped in a very small bubble where discussion begins and ends with the particular thing they are a fan of, and that's basically all there is to say on the matter.

 

Far and away the most annoying thing is just wishing that played the game of good and evil and were actually willing to call out and castigate evil acts and people, but it's just varations on the beta swarm over and over. Most people's form of SJ is just their fandom or whatever. It's insane how permissive of so many insane and stupid things people are all over the world, and increasingly now in gaming even.

 

Instead, it's always, I'll do this if you do that, there needs to be a different standard... unconditional justice, just like a paralell to that philosophical notion of unconditional L word or whatever. Justice which simply occurs because it must happen, as a matter of principle, and not as a part of a bargain or parlay.

 

Like really, this romance is point blank brand dead obvious to me, you don't have good romance when it's all overt and explicit, that's just not how it works. As far as the integrity of the experience.

[Natureguy85]

I think it's mostly just in vogue to be hyper critical, and being so often makes people feel intellectually superior. It's the idea of scarcity implicitly indicating higher value: "If my good opinion is rarely bestowed, it's more worth the earning."

That isn't to say that everyone who looks down on the romances are motivated by pretension, some of them might be holding it to a standard that doesn't really fit the genre/format, like literature.

These subplots have to work within the scope of a larger, action driven story. People rarely offer examples of what they would consider superior romantic content from sources that are remotely on equal footing with an action rpg.

 

Good thing you put in the second paragraph because the first seems to be exactly what you're complaining about!  Anyway, I think as far as people not saying  what would be better, I think many see that they don't like it but don't see the limitations of writing an optional romance as a small part of a much larger game.

 

My experience is that people here will criticize any character they don't like personally as poorly written, and furthermore, people here will not like a character for all kinds of absurd reasons.

 

For example: the amount of hate that Cassandra gets for her religious affinity, despite the fact that she *completely accepts* the player character's atheism.

 

That is most certainly true. I'm always checking myself to make sure I don't do this when I analyze characters.