1315 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

A/S/L?

 

 

 

Meh. I really don't like Quarians. If there is a moment where I have to make a choice for someone on my team to die, he would be my first pick.

 

If I had to choose for another team mate that had to die, I'd try to revive his dead corpse and kill him again. Renegade +25

 

Only female Quarians matter to me, but I guess you can't have one without the other.

 

Actually it's so tiny I didn't realize it's the female quarian concept art, don't think there is a male quarian concept art even out there to be honest.

 

Don't worry, you (may) understand when you're older.

 

But I'm older now!

 

 

And now I'm even older!

 

Hey aren't you a FE: Awakening fan?? What if I taunt you with super cool official Tharja fan art?

Spoiler

 

[Angry_Elcor]

some of them might be holding it to a standard that doesn't really fit the genre/format, like literature.

 

I think it's okay to judge them by the standards of BioWare's own writing, which is one of the reasons why people tend to do that.

 

These subplots have to work within the scope of a larger, action driven story. People rarely offer examples of what they would consider superior romantic content from sources that are remotely on equal footing with an action rpg.

 

When that comparison does get made, it often boils down to TW3 vs DA:I or something similar. Those comparisons may have value (I haven't played TW3) but they have also been problematic. At the end of the day, people criticizing the weaker romance storylines are comparing them to what we know - our experience of how those stories are depicted.

 

I tend to think they are poorly written across virtually all forms of entertainment. It is pretty rare that I see a romance story and think to myself, "that was realistic." But I am not suggesting that romance stories are inherently inferiour. I feel that most action stories are poorly written. I feel that most dramas and comedies are poorly written. Perhaps I have high standards, but I do tend to apply them fairly evenly to any form of entertainment.

 

I certainly don't expect good writing from video games. In my experience, it is one medium that has produced a consistently lower bar than others. It is probably a side effect of development priorities. Video games are 90% gameplay, and 10% everything else (there are exceptions like Life is Strange.) As a result, the writing tends not to receive the kind of attention that it would on an HBO drama. Which is fine. I don't need my video games to be like Shakespeare. I definitely stand by my broad position that BioWare's romance storylines have been done both well and poorly, by the standards of comparing them to themselves.

[Han Shot First]

My experience is that people here will criticize any character they don't like personally as poorly written, and furthermore, people here will not like a character for all kinds of absurd reasons.

 

For example: the amount of hate that Cassandra gets for her religious affinity, despite the fact that she *completely accepts* the player character's atheism.

 

Ashley was sort of in the same boat back after ME1 released. There were people who professed hate for the character because she was a 'bible-thumper.' Meanwhile she only had the briefest mention of having faith in life after death, doesn't browbeat Shepard if he/she doesn't share that belief, and never makes any comment that indicates what particular religion she belongs to or even if she belongs to a religion at all. 

 

The only good thing about her Horizon cameo in ME2 was that people found other, better reasons to hate her. 

[Thibax]

Please, no romances!

 

Just naked people on my bed

[KCMeredith]

Give me a harem instead

[Danadenassis]

For one, the more romances you have, the less budget and animation work can go into plot. I for one agree with OP. Either remove romances or lower it so there's only 2 or 3 at tops.

Wouldn't this be a kind of degenerated ME game? People expect evolution, not devolution.

[Commander Rpg]

Are you claiming that your straightforward 15 word post was a story, poem, or picture?

allegory

[al-uh-gawr-ee, -gohr-ee]

noun, plural allegories.

1.

a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.

2.

a symbolical narrative: the allegory of Piers Plowman.

3.

emblem (def 3).

 

 

I'm claiming one of these three meanings. You must choose. But choose wisely, for as the true one will bring you intelligence, the false one will take it from you.

[agonis]

Please, no romances!

 

Just naked people on my bed

 

Living people? Pretty people?

You have to be more specific. They will make you eat your words, I warn you.

[Angry_Elcor]

allegory

[al-uh-gawr-ee, -gohr-ee]

noun, plural allegories.

1.

a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.

2.

a symbolical narrative: the allegory of Piers Plowman.

3.

emblem (def 3).

 

 

I'm claiming one of these three meanings. You must choose. But choose wisely, for as the true one will bring you intelligence, the false one will take it from you.

 

With great sadness, I must forgo the magical reception of intelligence that comes from agreeing with you, as I am not seeing whatever it is that you are seeing.

[Angry_Elcor]

Just naked people on my bed

 

I could get behind this. Or let it get behind me. Whichever.

 

Give me a harem instead

 

[agonis]

With great sadness, I must forgo the magical reception of intelligence that comes with agreeing with you, as I am not seeing whatever it is that you are seeing.

 

Don´t be downcast, dear. I´m sure this answer is worth at least one magical point in cunning.

[Lady Artifice]

Because you were criticizing those who criticize romance as just wanting to criticize because it's cool and makes them feel smart. Without actually debating any specific points or building a case for why the romances are good, the same claim could be turned right back at you.

That's fair. I am very critical when it comes to people. On the cynicism spectrum, I err on the side of "people are mostly terrible and dumb," and I don't generally regard their ability to rationally analyze anything very highly. I think people who are capable of assessing the quality of a thing accurately and within context are rare, especially on the internet.

[agonis]

That's fair. I am very critical when it comes to people. On the cynicism spectrum, I err on the side of "people are mostly terrible and dumb," and I don't generally regard their ability to rationally analyze anything very highly. I think people who are capable of assessing the quality of a thing accurately and within context are rare, especially on the internet.

They are not rare. Most just don´t seem to care anymore. Discussions often seem like a waste of time and breath.

 

And how, exactly, does one assess the quality of a thing accurately? And is this even possible?

[Xen]

How about going a little less radical. Only 1 romance option, and it's an elcor.

anyone still interested in seeing this? Way better than toastermances, IMO. Imagine the serenading poetry!

[The Real Pearl #2]

anyone still interested in seeing this? Way better than toastermances, IMO. Imagine the serenading poetry!

No thanks, ill frick the robot 

Modifié par SpectrePug, 25 novembre 2015 - 08:31 .

[Seboist]

I certainly don't expect good writing from video games. In my experience, it is one medium that has produced a consistently lower bar than others. It is probably a side effect of development priorities. Video games are 90% gameplay, and 10% everything else (there are exceptions like Life is Strange.) As a result, the writing tends not to receive the kind of attention that it would on an HBO drama. Which is fine. I don't need my video games to be like Shakespeare. I definitely stand by my broad position that BioWare's romance storylines have been done both well and poorly, by the standards of comparing them to themselves.

 

Video games are the bottom of the barrel of story telling mediums, and for more reasons than that. The only "advantage" it has over the others is interactivity, and it's a very dubious one at that. It causes huge problems of pacing due to story vs gameplay conflicts where a game story is telling us things are urgent/dire, but Link can proceed to dick around with fishing, Geralt with Gwent,etc. Despite the amount of hours can put into a particular game, there's ultimately very little story to them, as much of it consists of mundane things like walking around, killing things,etc(I recall one filmmaker discussing that's the biggest hurdle in adapting VGs into film.).

 

Then there's the issue of most video game "writers" are ultimately too crap to have made it in film,tv,books,etc,  which further contributes to most video game plots not being worth the toilet paper they're written on.

[agonis]

Video games are the bottom of the barrel of story telling mediums, and for more reasons than that. The only "advantage" it has over the others is interactivity, and it's a very dubious one at that. It causes huge problems of pacing due to story vs gameplay conflicts where a game story is telling us things are urgent/dire, but Link can proceed to dick around with fishing, Geralt with Gwent,etc. Despite the amount of hours can put into a particular game, there's ultimately very little story to them, as much of it consists of mundane things like walking around, killing things,etc(I recall one filmmaker discussing that's the biggest hurdle in adapting VGs into film.).

 

Then there's the issue of most video game "writers" are ultimately too crap to have made it in film,tv,books,etc,  which further contributes to most video game plots not being worth the toilet paper they're written on.

 

I´m shocked.

I didn´t realise that TV, films and books have such a high quality.

[Seraphim24]

That's fair. I am very critical when it comes to people. On the cynicism spectrum, I err on the side of "people are mostly terrible and dumb," and I don't generally regard their ability to rationally analyze anything very highly. I think people who are capable of assessing the quality of a thing accurately and within context are rare, especially on the internet.

 

That's still not what Natureguy85 was saying though, you have close to 5,000 posts but I don't believe I've ever (not that I've read all of them) seen you actually support or dismiss any particular concept of Romance, or why they are good or bad. Or, let me just quote Natureguy85 again

 

"Without actually debating any specific points or building a case for why the romances are good, the same claim could be turned right back at you."

 

And to make that point, that claim can still be turned right back at you, and can always be turned right back at you, until you actually debate some specific points or build a case for why the romances are good.

 

For instance, I specifically stated that Morrigan's was good (or least better and in the right direction) and Alistair's was worse than that (or most).

 

In the ME universe I'd have to say... well since I've been mentioning side characters Traynor was also very understated and thus also a lot better than most.

[SnakeCode]

That's fair. I am very critical when it comes to people. On the cynicism spectrum, I err on the side of "people are mostly terrible and dumb," and I don't generally regard their ability to rationally analyze anything very highly. I think people who are capable of assessing the quality of a thing accurately and within context are rare, especially on the internet.

 

Eh, there are far less pretentious ways of saying "I'm so much more intelligent and rational than everybody else." I generally think you're a good poster and a nice person, but stuff like this really puts me off.

[Synthetic Turian]

I've never romanced a human character and I never will.

[Han Shot First]

I´m shocked.

I didn´t realise that TV, films and books have such a high quality.

 

Even the most mediocre of books, TV shows or films usually have a more coherent story and better written characters and dialogue than the average video game. Seboist's post was on the money in saying that video games are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to storytelling. 

[Ieldra]

Regarding the OP:

 

I'd like to see a Bioware game without romances just to be rid of the threads about representation issues and sexual orientation that almost dominate the forums at times, and to see something else than romance discussed in the character threads.

 

In-game, I'd be content to imagine a romance behind the scenes as headcanon.

 

Sadly, it won't happen.

[Ieldra]

Video games are the bottom of the barrel of story telling mediums, and for more reasons than that. The only "advantage" it has over the others is interactivity, and it's a very dubious one at that. It causes huge problems of pacing due to story vs gameplay conflicts where a game story is telling us things are urgent/dire, but Link can proceed to dick around with fishing, Geralt with Gwent,etc. Despite the amount of hours can put into a particular game, there's ultimately very little story to them, as much of it consists of mundane things like walking around, killing things,etc(I recall one filmmaker discussing that's the biggest hurdle in adapting VGs into film.).

 

Then there's the issue of most video game "writers" are ultimately too crap to have made it in film,tv,books,etc,  which further contributes to most video game plots not being worth the toilet paper they're written on.

Indeed so. That's the reason why I tend to put more trust in video game writers who have also written reasonably good books. They still have to work with the limits of the medium and players' expectations (mostly of too much killing stuff), but at least they know good storytelling.

[Felya87]

I think the only true "problem" with BioWare romance is that they are done after creating the characters. And many times with optional ones. In DAI, even if I liked most of the cast, I think for many of them being somehow optional make them less integrated, disconnected to the plot somehow. The feeling was of having a talking side quest more than having companions.

 

But it was a problem with both the friendship path and the romance. Not something just related to the romance.

 

Having characters more integrated to the plot to have the romances, would surely improve both romance and friendship path. I think this is one of the motivation that the Solas romance was appreciated, even with the less overall content, (basically only one scene is completely unique to the romance, The others are basically not over enormous changes from the friendship/normal dialogue path, and one is the ball scene, that every LI have) the sadness impregnated in every corner, and the limitation to only female elf protagonist.

 

So... maybe having less "second class" companions would be better in the future. Even if I can see the advantage of having the cast of companions purely facoltative, from a gameplay view, but surely the impact is not that good for the writing.

[OdanUrr]

I'd rather they did them better than not at all. Having said that, I don't need (nor want) 20+ romance options. Keep it simple and let it develop naturally. Heck, if the devs intend to start a new trilogy then romance doesn't even have to reach its peak in this chapter, you could leave it for others. In that case, please don't "reboot" the romance as you always did in ME1-3.