1315 réponses à ce sujet

[Riven326]

Romance defense force: ASSEMBLE!

 

Boo, bad. Do not like. 

 

::greatly disapproves::

 

 

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I do believe that judging the Dev focus the romance content claims by measuring the the fan focus is an unreliable way to go about it. I might be one of the last people most forum goers would listen to about this, considering how outspokenly I enjoy the inclusion of the romances, and the fact that I've been an OP of one of those annoying romance threads and an active participant of a lot of others, but I can promise that not all of us who enjoy the romance content do so as a form of wish fulfillment or out of "loneliness." Some of us just enjoy the different perspectives on the characters that the romance content provides, or we enjoy romantic content in itself. 

 

Contrary to the stereotype that circulates around romance fans in general, being a fan of romantic stories does not imply loneliness or desperation, any more than being a fan of the horror genre implies a person of violence. 

 

I'm a fan of both, and I can only give my word that I'm neither lonely nor violent. 

 

Anyway, I do understand that, when taken to the point of fixation, focus on romances can be off-putting. However, when we dislike talking about a subject, In my experience it's usually more effective to just avoid discussing it ourselves than it is to rant against the other people who do want to discuss it. 

But that's a poor excuse to like something, "I like it because it exists." What?

[FKA_Servo]

But that's a poor excuse to like something, "I like it because it exists." What?

 

I don't think it's a poor excuse in this case, because it flat out doesn't exist in most games. Even in other RPGs, the romances are usually baked into the plot - you have no freedom to pursue whomever you want, with so many different characters, as you do in a Bioware game. I think a good romance is an important ingredient to any good story, and I appreciate that Bioware gives me the freedom to inject that into my personal story with a variety of different options. This is their thing, in any event, and I'd rather they improve it than scrap it.

 

I personally wouldn't mind having fewer options, if only because I think that a lot of Bioware's games recently have had too many companions/squadmates. But then, having non-squaddie or "advisor" romances like ME3 and DAI ameliorates that somewhat. It's just fun to go out adventuring with your paramour. Overall, 2/2/2 seems like a good balance.

[Riven326]

I don't think it's a poor excuse in this case, because it flat out doesn't exist in most games. Even in other RPGs, the romances are usually baked into the plot - you have no freedom to pursue whomever you want, with so many different characters, as you do in a Bioware game. I think a good romance is an important ingredient to any good story, and I appreciate that Bioware gives me the freedom to inject that into my personal story with a variety of different options. This is their thing, in any event, and I'd rather they improve it than scrap it.

 

I personally wouldn't mind having fewer options, if only because I think that a lot of Bioware's games recently have had too many companions/squadmates. But then, having non-squaddie or "advisor" romances like ME3 and DAI ameliorates that somewhat. It's just fun to go out adventuring with your paramour. Overall, 2/2/2 seems like a good balance.

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a reason for that? I imagine many developers don't want to have it become a "thing" in their games like it has with Bioware. I have seen people on this forum flat out say that they would not buy a new Bioware game, no matter how great everything else looked, if it did not include romances. No, this is a problem and I can't imagine Bioware is very happy about having to satisfy their fans' lust for digital characters either.

 

It'd be one thing if Bioware actually tried to make the romance mechanic feel natural, or at the very least try to improve it in some way, but they don't. The entire mechanic is so contrived and unbelievable. Characters will literally fall in love with you just because you picked the heart-shaped icon or gave them enough gifts. Do you not see how ridiculous and silly the whole thing is?

[FKA_Servo]

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a reason for that? I imagine many developers don't want to have it become a "thing" in their games like it has with Bioware. I have seen people on this forum flat out say that they would not buy a new Bioware game, no matter how great everything else looked, if it did not include romances. No, this is a problem and I can't imagine Bioware is very happy about having to satisfy their fans' lust for digital characters either.

 

It'd be one thing if Bioware actually tried to make the romance mechanic feel natural, or at the very least try to improve it in some way, but they don't. The entire mechanic is so contrived and unbelievable. Characters will literally fall in love with you just because you picked the heart-shaped icon or gave them enough gifts. Do you not see how ridiculous and silly the whole thing is?

 

I think it's made babysteps in the right direction. And I absolutely agree with the bolded. I'd still rather have it than not.

 

I also have no problems smoothing things over with headcanon, but I know that some posters here hate that.

[Riven326]

 I'd still rather have it than not.

Why?

[pdusen]

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a reason for that? I imagine many developers don't want to have it become a "thing" in their games like it has with Bioware. I have seen people on this forum flat out say that they would not buy a new Bioware game, no matter how great everything else looked, if it did not include romances. No, this is a problem and I can't imagine Bioware is very happy about having to satisfy their fans' lust for digital characters either.

 

It'd be one thing if Bioware actually tried to make the romance mechanic feel natural, or at the very least try to improve it in some way, but they don't. The entire mechanic is so contrived and unbelievable. Characters will literally fall in love with you just because you picked the heart-shaped icon or gave them enough gifts. Do you not see how ridiculous and silly the whole thing is?

 

The emergence of the romance with Bastila in KOTOR was one of the most immersive and rewarding stories I've ever experienced in an RPG. It was all the more effective because it was surprising; I had never played a game that allowed something like that before.

 

Yes, mechanics can be contrived and unbelievable. Gifts in DA:O are a great example of that. But you will never convince me that an RPG is better without romance options than with. You are wrong.

[FKA_Servo]

Why?

 

I already answered that. It's narratively satisfying to me, even if it's not quite as slick as a fully scripted and plot integrated romance. You're eager to discount it as "lusting" after digital characters, so I can't imagine you'd consider it as legitimate. I'm not overly concerned. I don't see why we can't agree on making them better and more natural, though.

[alienatedflea]

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a reason for that? I imagine many developers don't want to have it become a "thing" in their games like it has with Bioware. I have seen people on this forum flat out say that they would not buy a new Bioware game, no matter how great everything else looked, if it did not include romances. No, this is a problem and I can't imagine Bioware is very happy about having to satisfy their fans' lust for digital characters either.

 

It'd be one thing if Bioware actually tried to make the romance mechanic feel natural, or at the very least try to improve it in some way, but they don't. The entire mechanic is so contrived and unbelievable. Characters will literally fall in love with you just because you picked the heart-shaped icon or gave them enough gifts. Do you not see how ridiculous and silly the whole thing is?

 

It won't get much better until there can be exclusivity based on the player's sexual preference without other gamers complaining about it.  What I don't want to see (but is also the path of least resistance) is that everyone is bisexual and for me, when every outcome ends up being the same, the experience is not memorable and therefore could be excluded from the game.

[Lady Artifice]

But that's a poor excuse to like something, "I like it because it exists." What?

I don't like it because it exists, I like it because I like it. Just like I like the color periwinkle blue or caramel ice cream.

I like romance stories because when they're done well they give me a pleasant, warm and squishy feeling in my chest. I like horror because, when done well, feeling afraid and spooked out can be fun and exhilarating. I like science fiction because the concept of the fantastic, of space monsters and traveling amongst the stars, is fun to imagine.

People don't need "excuses" for liking things. We already have reasons for that.

[KaiserShep]

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a reason for that? I imagine many developers don't want to have it become a "thing" in their games like it has with Bioware. I have seen people on this forum flat out say that they would not buy a new Bioware game, no matter how great everything else looked, if it did not include romances. No, this is a problem and I can't imagine Bioware is very happy about having to satisfy their fans' lust for digital characters either.
 
It'd be one thing if Bioware actually tried to make the romance mechanic feel natural, or at the very least try to improve it in some way, but they don't. The entire mechanic is so contrived and unbelievable. Characters will literally fall in love with you just because you picked the heart-shaped icon or gave them enough gifts. Do you not see how ridiculous and silly the whole thing is?

With the exception of advisers in Inquisition, auto-love through gifts and affectionate dialogue has been gone since Origins. Mass Effect is the one that basically has companions like you no matter what you did, whereas you couldn't just get companions to warm up to you in DA2 and DA:I (with the exception of the 2 advisers).

[Riven326]

The emergence of the romance with Bastila in KOTOR was one of the most immersive and rewarding stories I've ever experienced in an RPG. It was all the more effective because it was surprising; I had never played a game that allowed something like that before.

 

Yes, mechanics can be contrived and unbelievable. Gifts in DA:O are a great example of that. But you will never convince me that an RPG is better without romance options than with. You are wrong.

What a great example you provided here of what I was talking about above. You use no logic or reason to support your arguments for why I am wrong or anything to counter my arguments other than you enjoyed having digital romance in KOTOR.

 

I already answered that. It's narratively satisfying to me, even if it's not quite as slick as a fully scripted and plot integrated romance. You're eager to discount it as "lusting" after digital characters, so I can't imagine you'd consider it as legitimate. I'm not overly concerned. I don't see why we can't agree on making them better and more natural, though.

Well, you're right, I don't consider it legitimate because the mechanic itself is so shamelessly put together. I don't mean to sound rude here, but why is it satisfying to you from a narrative perspective? Keep in mind that I'm only trying to understand the other side of the argument better here.

 

I don't like it because it exists, I like it because I like it. Just like I like the color periwinkle blue or caramel ice cream.

I like romance stories because when they're done well they give me a pleasant, warm and squishy feeling in my chest. I like horror because, when done well, feeling afraid and spooked out can be fun and exhilarating. I like science fiction because the concept of the fantastic, of space monsters and travelig amongst the stars, is fun to imagine.

People don't need "excuses" for liking things. We already have reasons for that.

Right, and I believe I was fishing for reasons. I like it because I like it because I like it is no more satisfying to me than I know it because I know it.

[God]

As long as we don't go the Dragon Age route with romances, I'm good.

[Metalfros]

Inquisition did a pretty good job improving on the romance of DA 2 and ME3, but yea, i'd rather not have them go that way

[KaiserShep]

As long as we don't go the Dragon Age route with romances, I'm good.

I dunno. I think that overall DA did it better. In ME, you could be a total jerknazi to everyone and they all love you anyway. Tell Liara you'd rather toss her in a volcano and it's like water off a duck's back.

[FKA_Servo]

I dunno. I think that overall DA did it better. In ME, you could be a total jerknazi to everyone and they all love you anyway.

 

Conversely, in DAO I could be a derpy do-gooder and so would Morrigan, as long as I fed her presents. DA2 probably had the best approach, even if it wasn't perfect.

 

I'm 100% in favor of blocking romances based on alignment or decisions though. Would Anders stay with me if I was a blood mage? Would Morrigan stay with me if I'm an insufferable pro-chantry dork? Why?

[CronoDragoon]

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a reason for that? I imagine many developers don't want to have it become a "thing" in their games like it has with Bioware. I have seen people on this forum flat out say that they would not buy a new Bioware game, no matter how great everything else looked, if it did not include romances.

 

I take those claims about as seriously as I take any "do what I want or else!" claim on this board.

 

They'll be there for the next game.

[Jenpants]

You can play the game w/out romancing anyone you know. Like the first time I played ME1. I didn't know you could. And I survived!!

[MorriganFate]

I never do romances anymore and can see how not doing them might be nice since so many get ruffled over the options or how they are done, but romances are now a key feature of BW games and I really don't see them not doing them anymore especially since those who don't want them can just ignore them. For those of us who don't care for them, we can ignore them and be just as happy. Asking not to do them is kind of like being happily single and asking the rest of the world to not be married or in a relationship or even have sex because you like to be single and asexual.

[MorriganFate]

You can play the game w/out romancing anyone you know. Like the first time I played ME1. I didn't know you could. And I survived!!

 

Same here. I was quite happy with the game for several runs and never did a romance until I had played probably five or six times... maybe more.

[Former_Fiend]

Whether you want it or not, I feel that it's probably too late in the game to influence them about it.

[Riven326]

Whether you want it or not, I feel that it's probably too late in the game to influence them about it.

This is true. It would be like taking a toy away from a child. The reaction would be predictable.

[pdusen]

What a great example you provided here of what I was talking about above. You use no logic or reason to support your arguments for why I am wrong or anything to counter my arguments other than you enjoyed having digital romance in KOTOR.

 

Since you are apparently far denser than I realized, let me spell it out again for you.

 

I want romances in the game because I like to be immersed in a story and a well-done romance can be an excellent tool for immersing someone in a story. Bastila is an example that was particularly effective for me personally.

 

Not that I expect this to change your mind, because you look a lot like a troll at this point. Apparently we need to somehow use math to prove to you that romances in an RPG are a good thing or our arguments mean nothing.

[Wulfram]

I like romances, though I think they could probably stand to have fewer than in ME3 and DAI.

[Riven326]

Since you are apparently far denser than I realized, let me spell it out again for you.

 

I want romances in the game because I like to be immersed in a story and a well-done romance can be an excellent tool for immersing someone in a story. Bastila is an example that was particularly effective for me personally.

 

Not that I expect this to change your mind, because you look a lot like a troll at this point. Apparently we need to somehow use math to prove to you that romances in an RPG are a good thing or our arguments mean nothing.

Right, I'm dense for using logic and reason and you are obviously very bright for not doing so. Again, you reiterate the point about how it's good because you think it is. You give no reasons for why the romance mechanic should be included or why my critique of them is wrong.

[RINNZ]

lol that's like telling G.R.R Martin "don't kill people."

*inhales*

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

*calms down*

That's it.