1315 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

I identify as an apple. Will Bioware forget me when Romances are announced?

 

Ah, hello slippery slope philosophy. I see you're as logical as ever. 

[Killdren88]

Ah, hello slippery slope philosophy. I see you're as logical as ever. 

 

You're not a Fruit-kin. Check your privilege!

[Former_Fiend]

From what I've read from the developers, that sounds about right.  The idea that romances somehow impede friendship dialogue is off-base.  The writers are very careful to make sure that the dialogue for the romance arcs doesn't trump the dialogue and story for the rest of the companions.  They've had a few missteps (like Jack, imho,) but overall they've done a good job of making sure that the romances doesn't hog other content.  I also have seen, judging from DG's old blog, that they prioritize the rest of the character first.  They write them out and create their personalities, background, story and reasons for being a part of the the team.  This includes their sexualities.  Then, they look at the character and see if it would make a good romance without taking away from the story and dialogue for the rest of the character.  

 

I mentioned this in another thread, but DG has stressed in the past that BioWare is under zero obligation to write these romances.  They aren't forced to do this; there isn't anything in their contracts stating that they must have romances.  DG was asked, I think last year at GaymerX, if BioWare was going to always do romances in all of their games.  He said that when it comes to opening the "Pandora's Box of Romance Content*," it's not an automatic given that the game will include romance options.  It really depended upon the content of the story and how it would flow in the game.

 

 It's also quite telling to me that not all BioWare writers have characters for romance.  For example, one of my favorite BioWare writers is Mary Kirby.  She wrote, among others, Varric and Vivienne.  If you note her character history, she doesn't write player LI arcs.  No one has forced her to do so, as it should be.  She writes what she wants.

 

So, not only is the idea that BioWare forces romance is off base, the idea that they completely define any of their characters based on their romance arc is ludicrous.

 

I have to wonder who would complain the loudest if the BioWare devs removed romances altogether, or if they decided not to include it in the next IP DG is working on.  I know I wouldn't care all that much, so long as the friendships and characterization of the companions were solid.

 

_{*One of my favorite comments from DG regarding the volatile nature when it comes to fans reactions to the romance arcs.*}

 

 

Of course it does lead to the question; do you believe Gaider when he says all of that?

 

There are parts I believe and there are parts I don't believe. I believe him when he says there's no corporate mandate requiring them to include romance in all their games, but given that there is a serious fan expectation, I strongly doubt they're ever going to make a game that doesn't include romance in some way.

 

And I think the way he's phrasing their method of designing characters is true from a certain light. They may build them from the ground up and then decide who's going to be an LI, but I think it's naive to assume that the knowledge that any character could potentially be an LI doesn't factor into the writers minds when they're crafting those characters. Like you mentioned, no one's forced Kirby to write a romance character, but for all we know it could be they bring her on the team specifically because they know she'll cover the non-li characters. I strongly doubt the idea of Dorian being a love interest hadn't entered Gaider's mind long before they got to the stage of picking which characters were going to be romancable and which ones weren't. I'm sure they knew from pretty early on that Cole wasn't going to be an LI. I'm sure that throughout the writing process, even if it hadn't been decided yet, Wrex and Mordin were never considered for LI's. And I'm fairly sure Thane was envisioned as an LI from the jump. 

 

The idea of "I want this character to be an LI" or "I don't want this character to be an LI" is going to be in the writer's minds from an early stage, before the actual decision is going to be made. It may not be on the top ten things factoring into the decisions they make for the character, but it's on the list. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Of course it does lead to the question; do you believe Gaider when he says all of that?

 

Yes I do.  Cole wasn't going to be an LI, but that's because his character was conceived before the game really was.  He was around well before even the initial character leak, and I'm frankly surprised he made it into the game.  He was a character brought in from the EU, from a story that had nothing to do with the player.  If you notice, the times they've brought in a character that was first conceived in the EU into the games, they haven't been a romance.  Cole and Loghain are two examples of this.  So I can safely say they weren't written with any sort of player romance in mind.

 

When it comes to Mary Kirby, I'm sorry but the assumption that they would force her or any author to write a romance is absurd.  By the way, I was mistaken about something: She did write Merrill, so it's safe to assume she wrote the romance.  Still, look at the rest of her characters:

 

Sten

Most of Loghain

Ser Cautherine

Varric

Vivienne

 

Again, I don't think anyone is going to force her to do squat.  You're free to tweet Mike Laidlaw or Mark Durrah and ask.  They are the Grand Poobah's behind DA after all.  Patrick Weekes' bosses at this point.

 

I don't doubt that Dorian was written first as a character before they went, "Now, would gay men like to romance him?"  I think DG went, "This is a story with a character I wanted to tell."  I truly don't think that the words, "But the players might like to romance him" until later.  I mean, after Dorian was established as hailing from Tevinter, after his personal quests were set, after his personality as a whole was formed.  If anything, due to how special Dorian was for DG, I could see him being a little reluctant to make the character a player romance due to some (predictable) backlash.  

 

I remember the "But you made the obviously gay looking guy gay!  You're stereotyping gay men!" posts.  Or, "Omgerd, his personal quest talks about him liking other men, and now he's a gay LI.  Stop shoving your gay content down my throat" posts that are around still.

 

I never said that writers never took that into consideration at all.  Thane was an exception, but frankly I can and have written very long posts about the missteps in the romances and the way they were handled in the ME series.  I did say that I believe DG when he says that character conception comes first, and only after that is a romance thought of.  

 

I also know that, at least going by Manveer Heir last year, that BioWare as a whole company has grown and changed.  I'm not naive, but I've done some research; seen videos from GDC panels over the last 2 years and read interviews.  So yeah, I trust DG, and I trust Manveer Heir as well.  DG's been doing this for a living since 1998, and he's the one that first started writing romances for the company, so I'm not inclined to distrust him at this point.

[RINNZ]

I identify as a black basketball. Where's my representation?

[Angry_Elcor]

Normally I would disagree with this thread in principal as I'm rather fond of romance story arcs in Bioware games.  But as I have already seen several threads pop up complaining about both previous romance options and the potential romance options of a future game (a game which we know almost nothing about and for which no characters have been announced) I'm warming up to the idea of leaving this feature out.

 

Even I was impressed at how quickly the relative fairness of romance sexuality distribution became an issue, considering we know absolutely nothing about the game, yet.

[Riven326]

Well, no, not any mechanic. But here's the tricky part: I don't know exactly what you mean when you say "the romance mechanic as it exists now" or what specifically you consider to be it's flaws. I apologize if you already explained that in this thread, which I haven't read in it's entirety. 

 

I think that there have been differences in the romance mechanic in numerous Bioware games, and I think they've generally improved as Bioware has matured as a company. I don't like every romance arc that Bioware has done, and I think there will be the possibility of improvement for a long time to come. 

 

That said, I'm not as severe about companions only romance likeminded people as some are. I think people can believe in different things and still care about each other. I think characters doing so can make for some pleasant romantic tension and conflict. 

 

I get that you don't like the way the romances are written, but clearly, I'm inclined judge them somewhat less harshly than you are. 

Well, the main problem I have with the current romance mechanic is just how unbelievable and silly it is. Having characters fall in love with the PC just because he or she chooses a heart-shaped icon while in conversation or showering someone with gifts seems rather shallow to me. I also don't like how the NPC's have no free will of their own to pursue any sort of relationship with the PC on their own accord. Outside of romance, the characters' personalities are strong and they all have their own goals and ambitions. The only time that's not true is when the romance mechanic takes over and appears to ignore all of that and turn every character that is not the PC into a virtual doll or play thing that exists solely for the player's own amusement.

[Steelcan]

As long as there's no aliens from Andromeda who are romanceable (in a physcially sexual manner) I don't care if they do them

[Angry_Elcor]

I identify as a black basketball. Where's my representation?

 

 

His name is Spalding Street, of the Boston Streets.

 

He likes horror movies, bouncing, and long rolls on the beach.

 

Is monogamous. Looking for same.

[KaiserShep]

The pineapple will most likely be romanceable... if you want. The Banana is off limits though.

A non-romanceable banana? Yeah, right. Do I look like I was grown yesterday?

[KaiserShep]

Like the title says...Don't do romances, Bioware.  Use that effort that you would put into romance sub plots into some interesting side missions that will affect the campaign in some way. 

Or they could just do both (nothing precludes this), and people who just don't like it on principle can suck lemons or something.

[Heathen Oxman]

At this point, I don't care.

 

Every time I romance someone, they turn out to be a traitor, or a terrorist, or something else unpleasant.

 

My NuShep is going to be a friggen monk in MEA.

[Fetunche]

Romances are optional as are the threads about them, both are easily avoided.

[Angry_Elcor]

My NuShep is going to be a friggen monk in MEA.

 

I'm hoping they replace romance with a casual sex mechanic.

 

 

If I can't contract Space Herpes before the end of the game, I'm cancelling my pre-order.

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

I think there should be a threesome option at some point in the game.BioWare,make it happen!

[Br3admax]

Hopefully all alien romances have serious consequences this time around. Like more than a cough.

[Sion1138]

Hopefully all alien romances have serious consequences this time around. Like more than a cough.

 

Like you have your sex scene immediately followed by 'critical mission failure' because you both died. Complete with the music and everything.

[Andrew Lucas]

Serious talk,


I like it.

[FemShem]

Sure they could go romance free, but BioWare does it the best and it's why I play BioWare.  Could they utilize resources and make an incredible RPG w/o romance?

Yep.

Would I buy it?

Actually, I might not, but I might get around to it.

BioWare's open sexuality romances are unique and no1 does it better.  Everyone complains, 'tis true; however, what would we all talk about if we got along?

I had to do ME2 w/o romance b/c there was no lesbian 'ship for my Shep w/o import from ME1.

Sigh, I felt like I missed out.

Long live the romance!  Besides how else were we going to find out how creepy Cassandra's jawline could make some random straight guy gamers...you know the one with the skull pics.  Hopefully, BioWare will keep him from shooting up a mall and he can just be crazy and harmless in cyber space.

Well, except for annoying Gaider and other BioWare employees.

[Incantrix]

on one hand, I really think the end of romances and switching to friendships would silence all of the rampant romance arguments of one side feeling left out. This past season, it was straight males complaining about the lack of romance options from DAI. One side always feels left out, but I must say...not to place blame, but straight males tend to be easily offended, even when the options are all equal (regarding DA2).  Anyway I digress, I also feel like romances have just become far too cornerstone for BW to just drop. It's become so central to everyone's expectations, that it just wouldn't feel right to not have them.

 

If they were to keep romances, which they will, then I would propose 2 straight romances, 2 bisexuals and 2 same-sex romances. DAI almost had the perfect formula, until they messed it up by adding all the female specific romances. (I'm looking at you Solas).

 

Personally, I like the romance lines. It really makes the story more personal but by the end of the day, BW can't satisfy everyone. Someone is going to cry about something. 

[FemShem]

 

If they were to keep romances, which they will, then I would propose 2 straight romances, 2 bisexuals and 2 same-sex romances. DAI almost had the perfect formula, until they messed it up by adding all the female specific romances. (I'm looking at you Solas).

 

Personally, I like the romance lines. It really makes the story more personal but by the end of the day, BW can't satisfy everyone. Someone is going to cry about something. 

Yeah, but Solas romance was an add-on by the team.  

Even if they went romance free...one writer from the team would want to add-on that perfect romance...then there would only be one and we'd all be sad, or stuck with Solas...or roll a Fem/Dalish so we could romance him...

...Or I'm really just speaking for myself...I'm gonna go game.

Hugs.  Bring on Holiday 2016! (Why can't that holiday be Valentine's Day?...ouch didn't mean that to be romance related just wanted the game in Feb.

Romance and BioWare...unavoidable...and incredibly fun!

[KaiserShep]

on one hand, I really think the end of romances and switching to friendships would silence all of the rampant romance arguments of one side feeling left out. This past season, it was straight males complaining about the lack of romance options from DAI. One side always feels left out, but I must say...not to place blame, but straight males tend to be easily offended, even when the options are all equal (regarding DA2). Anyway I digress, I also feel like romances have just become far too cornerstone for BW to just drop. It's become so central to everyone's expectations, that it just wouldn't feel right to not have them.

If they were to keep romances, which they will, then I would propose 2 straight romances, 2 bisexuals and 2 same-sex romances. DAI almost had the perfect formula, until they messed it up by adding all the female specific romances. (I'm looking at you Solas).

Personally, I like the romance lines. It really makes the story more personal but by the end of the day, BW can't satisfy everyone. Someone is going to cry about something.

Eh, if the endless Geth/Quarian debate has taught me anything, it's that rampant arguments are inevitable lol.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

I just want to see an alien double penetrated for once.