54 réponses à ce sujet

[Sulaco_7]

Decided to create a separate thread for this, because I felt the answers were pretty significant (at least to me).  Anyways, I asked Luke about the following two DAMP issues:

 

1.) If I use Caliban and March of the Everlasting, does the effect "5% extra damage per enemy within 8 meters" stack?

 

2.) Barrier ring:  It gives Barrier a longer cooldown when equipped is this intended?

 

 

Answers:

 

1.)  It will stack.  This means Caliban and March of the Everlasting should be the best sword / shield combo in the game - DPS wise.  Feel free to salvage your Shield of the Emperor now.

 

2.) Barrier ring IS bugged:  It gives 10 extra seconds to cooldown and also takes away 15 more mana.  He may be able to fix it in next week's balance changes (no guarantees though).

 

 

[Texasmotiv]

Excellent information. Thank you.

[Proto]

1. Interesting. Assumed and had read elsewhere they did not stack. Side note, Dwarven Proving Shield has the same masterwork as March of the Everlasting. Personally, I prefer it. 

 

2. Wow, no wonder I didn't like that ring. Thought it was just causing barrier to decay faster. 

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Wavebend]

Awesome. I'll definitely use 2 barrier rings next time.

[ALTBOULI]

I was told by people who tested the Caliban + proving shield that it did not stack, has this been a recent change?

[Minuos]

How did you come to the first conclusion? I tried using the Caliban and proving shield combo mentioned and didn't see any increase in damage from using Caliban with Shield of the Emperor. I was under the impression that the effect is more like a flag, so doesn't stack.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

How did you come to the first conclusion? I tried using the Caliban and proving shield combo mentioned and didn't see any increase in damage from using Caliban with Shield of the Emperor. I was under the impression that the effect is more like a flag, so doesn't stack.

 

He asked Luke. However, there have been many tests in the past showing that identical Masterwork effects (including this one) do not stack, so this would have to be a recent change.

[Sulaco_7]

He asked Luke. However, there have been many tests in the past showing that identical Masterwork effects (including this one) do not stack, so this would have to be a recent change.

 

I don't want to quote Luke directly (because he said not too).. but basically the gist is that this *particular* effect stacks (implying other masterwork effects may/may not stack).

 

Also, I think Drasca said he did some preliminary testing before that showed that it did stack as well.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I don't want to quote Luke directly (because he said not too).. but basically the gist is that this *particular* effect stacks (implying other masterwork effects may/may not stack).

 

Also, I think Drasca said he did some preliminary testing before that showed that it did stack as well.

 

Are they both 5% per enemy? If I am remembering right, if there are two similar Masterwork effects they can stack, but identical ones didn't (i.e. 10% Berserker versus 20% Berserker). Also bear in mind that was tested in SP a loooong time ago.

 

And Drasca did say it may stack, but it was a difficult stat on which to get solid data, if I remember correctly (Drasca feel free to correct me if I am misquoting you).

[Drasca]

How did you come to the first conclusion? I tried using the Caliban and proving shield combo mentioned and didn't see any increase in damage from using Caliban with Shield of the Emperor. I was under the impression that the effect is more like a flag, so doesn't stack.

 

It takes thorough testing to find out, because there's a natural 5% deviance, not to mention other factors that can throw you off course into the wrong conclusion. My preliminary findings were that it appeared to stack, because the averages and maximums were consistently higher. That said, I'd need a lot more evidence (hundreds of recorded hits) to find out for sure, and it is too much work for me. I spent a few hours creating games and isolating enemies just so I could whack the same exact ones to isolate damage figures. That was enough for me to say its too much work to be worth that methodology and I'd just wear both if I wanted more damage (and risk it not working).

 

Other equipment combos may/may not work.

[Texasmotiv]

I'll see if i can set up some tests when I get time and share the data.

[Sulaco_7]

Are they both 5% per enemy? If I am remembering right, if there are two similar Masterwork effects they can stack, but identical ones didn't (i.e. 10% Berserker versus 20% Berserker). Also bear in mind that was tested in SP a loooong time ago.

 

 

Fairly certain that all items have this same masterwork value:  "5% extra damage for each enemy within 8 meters."  I don't think there is any item that has different values for this effect.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Fairly certain that all items have this same masterwork value:  "5% extra damage for each enemy within 8 meters."  I don't think there is any item that has different values for this effect.

 

Ah ok. I have neither, so I was not sure. I only have the Dwarven Proving Shield.

 

Aside, it very well may stack. It may have stacked from day one and was just misunderstood, or it could have been fixed. That's why I wanted to clarify that the tests done were in SP and done around 7-8 months ago. Lot of chance for error in that data sample.

[starrks]

This wasn't the most thorough test ever, but this is what I wrote in a thread about this a few weeks ago: I finally took the time to do a very simple test. Ran a templar solo with Caliban only. Each sword swipe hit for 260 to 280. Ran another with both and each sword hit was the same range

[coldsteelblue]

Oh eff, I broke my march of the everlasting down when I got my emperor's shield, eff, eff, eff

 

Still, as I'm yet to join the caliban club, it doesn't matter too much & I might get another one...*adopting the prayer position for the RNG gods*

[Drasca]

Fairly certain that all items have this same masterwork value:  "5% extra damage for each enemy within 8 meters."  I don't think there is any item that has different values for this effect.

 

The idea Mortiel is referring to actually applies for SP. This is MP, and while most mechanics work the same, not all of them are guaranteed to be the same, because they're not. This is one of the contentious issues we need to actually test thoroughly under controlled conditions in order to have useful and credible conclusions.

[Luke Barrett]

Sorry, everyone was only looking at half the mechanic for that damage boost. The system that checks whether enemies are near you does stack but the math coming back does not. Thus having two effects with this buff will not increase your damage output but will increase the reliability of that damage boost (though it'll be negligible in most real cases). IF, hypothetically, a new item had this effect but at a different value - say 10% per enemy instead of 5% - that would stack.

 

As for other effects stacking or not this is mostly a case by case basis.

[Texasmotiv]

Thanks luke. I wish you had posted this before I went and tested this oh well. My testing confirms the same, there was no noticable difference when using Caliban + another shield and Caliban + March of the Everlasting.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Sorry, everyone was only looking at half the mechanic for that damage boost. The system that checks whether enemies are near you does stack but the math coming back does not. Thus having two effects with this buff will not increase your damage output but will increase the reliability of that damage boost (though it'll be negligible in most real cases). IF, hypothetically, a new item had this effect but at a different value - say 10% per enemy instead of 5% - that would stack.

 

As for other effects stacking or not this is mostly a case by case basis.

 

So, just to clarify, what you are saying is that the mechanic for counting enemies around you stacks (meaning each enemy is essentially counted twice), but the actual damage bonus is only counted once (granted that the two items have identical bonuses)? Furthermore, if the effects are not itentical (your theoretical 10% masterwork), then both functions stack?

 

Quick math:

Example (Single Masterwork):

• Masterwork: 5% damage for each enemy within 8 meters.
• Weapon base damage 100 (nice even number).
• 3 enemies within 8 meters.

100 base * [1 + 3 * 0.05] = 115 damage

Example 2 (Stacked Identical Masterwork):

• Masterwork (x2): 5% damage for each enemy in 8 meters.
• Weapon base damage 100 (nice even number).
• 3 enemies within 8 meters.

100 base * [1 + 6 * 0.05] = 130 damage

Theoretical Example 3 (Stacked Similar Masterwork):

• Masterwork: 5% damage for each enemy in 8 meters *and* 10% damage for each enemy in 8 meters.
• Weapon base damage 100 (nice even number).
• 3 enemies within 8 meters.

100 base * [1 + 6 * (0.05 + 0.15)] = 190 damage

Does that sound right? Also, is this damage bonus counted as an Attack bonus (just like +Attack %)?

[Sulaco_7]

Bummer...

 

good thing I got shield of the emperor today... but also WWWWARRRRIIIOOORRRSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

amirite?

[Rolenka]

Sorry, everyone was only looking at half the mechanic for that damage boost. The system that checks whether enemies are near you does stack but the math coming back does not. Thus having two effects with this buff will not increase your damage output but will increase the reliability of that damage boost (though it'll be negligible in most real cases). IF, hypothetically, a new item had this effect but at a different value - say 10% per enemy instead of 5% - that would stack.

 

As for other effects stacking or not this is mostly a case by case basis.

 

Please settle the question of promotion (soft) capping.

[HeroicMass]

I was told by people who tested the Caliban + proving shield that it did not stack, has this been a recent change?

 

I see you have since learned not to doubt my initial findings

[Texasmotiv]

Please settle the question of promotion (soft) capping.

 

What question is that?

[Rolenka]

What question is that?

 

It's a pretty common question, especially among new players. At what point do the benefits of promoting cap? Is it a hard cap or a soft cap?

[Luke Barrett]

It's a pretty common question, especially among new players. At what point do the benefits of promoting cap? Is it a hard cap or a soft cap?

 

Currently there is a 'soft' cap for the benefits due to the hard cap in place for defense which is 80%. As for the other benefit of each stat those currently increase indefinitely. So depending on your class/passives/gear you'll start getting less out of them somewhere in the 100-150 range.