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Which DA / ME-styled Dialogue system would you want for Andromeda?


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#1
Lyrandori

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Assuming that BioWare either decides to copy or perhaps "follow" one of the dialogue system of one of their previous games for Mass Effect: Andromeda, then which one of those - if one of them do make it for Andromeda - would you prefer?

 

Let's recapitulate the main features of DA:O, DA2, DA:I, ME, ME2 and ME3's dialogue systems:

 

Dragon Age: Origins

 

In Origins the dialogue consists of a top-to-bottom numbered list (sentences) of actions/replies/investigative questions. It was technically effective, although - and perhaps by design (most likely so) - wasn't very clear as to whether or not the purely text-based choice by the player had a specific "alignment" in character behavior/emotion/intention (evil, neutral, sarcastic, political, etc.) unless the NPC you would converse with had a clear reaction that would then indicate it. In the end DA:O's "basic" dialogue system certainly did serve its purpose well enough.

 

Dragon Age II

 

In DAII the dialogue system took a considerable turn for the best in my opinion. To me, it is the best of the DA trilogy (admittedly most likely largely in part due to the superb voice acting performance of both male and female Hawke's VAs, especially under a sustained "comical/sarcastic" behavior over time). The best part of DAII's dialogue system is that it directly influences Hawke's personality based on player-favored response types. It even shows in cut-scenes (and sooner rather than later in the game).

 

With no less than 17 types of dialogue-based choices DAII certainly offered great "personality control" over our protagonist, of course considering the fact that the DAII team themselves took the time to exploit their own created system quite well. A good example would be the "Special Choice" dialogue icon (star icon) which leads to special outcomes directly in relation to your Hawke's "set" personality at specific moments in the story. You are even allowed to attempt a lie.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition

 

On paper, DA:I's 27 types (icons) of dialogue choices is of course indisputably bigger than DAII's. And, ultimately, it should have had a complex impact on our ability / capacity to role-play our Inquisitor's personality. But after completing the game three times so far (once with a Human, another with a Qunari, and finally with an Elf) I would say that the actual effect on our chosen "personality" types over time was almost non-existent, or at the very least inconsistent. That, or perhaps I should say that it was either 1) not well-enough acted and conveyed by the VAs (or that the VAs were not properly informed as they were given the scripts to read) or 2) not properly planned ahead of time before (or during) the writing of the various game's scripts by the writers themselves (but I highly doubt that would be the case). It is only clear to me that something, somewhere, went wrong with either VA and/or writing (not quality-wise, but in relation to how the VAs had to express themselves at specific lines to give a clear indication of our chosen personality type).

 

As I mentioned above, on paper, it should have had a much greater impact than it successfully did in DAII. And to make it clear here I am not saying that the personality choices of DA:I's system didn't have an impact at all. I am simply referring here to short, medium and especially long-term "lasting" personality on our Inquisitor's ways to express him/herself based on our favored / recurring player dialogue wheel choices, in that regard DAII is the winner. The "fault", however, for DA:I isn't the actual dialogue system in and of itself. It's probably more related to communication issues between the writers, the voice actors/actresses and/or the other folks of the team responsible to direct the VAs as they perform live in the recording studio. Because in and of itself DA:I's dialogue system is complex and merits to have a reevaluated return in a future BioWare game given better direction.

 

Mass Effect

 

The original ME's intuitive dialogue wheel was rather simple, but also allowed an appreciable level of complexity at least as far as role-playing our Shepard was concerned (excluding the fact that for some players the "inaccuracy" of the written line versus the spoken response turned them off from the game entirely or at least greatly diminished the efficiency of actual role-play capabilities, and fortunately enough for me it wasn't the case). The left side of the wheel was sometimes used for "charming" or "intimidation" responses, while also often presented a middle branch to start "investigative" conversations to gather information from NPCs or teammates. The right side, on the other hand, was usually reserved for a quicker completion of any given conversation, although of course not without allowing the player to choose between the common RPG "trifecta" of "good/cooperative/diplomatic", neutral, "evil/renegade/selfish" personalities (or merely on-the-spot emotions-based responses without any lasting effect afterwards).

 

All in all, ME's dialogue system - in my book - was efficient and accurate-enough (for my tastes). The Paragon / Renegade "gauge" system had its uses and memorable moments, although didn't have much of lasting effects on Shepard's actual personality over time (if any, or simply none that I can recall by heart). It was a very "in the now" system, one that showed a specific type of personality/morality "right there, right now" as the response was spoken by Shepard; when afterwards our protagonist would "revert" back to "default".

 

Mass Effect 2

 

The sequel followed much of the same dialogue mechanisms, although with a number of changes that were in my opinion good enough. For example, in ME2, the higher (and lower) the Paragon or the Renegade gauge was, the more related-to-them Charming or Intimidation dialogue options would be shown at specific situations. It is an effective system in and of itself.

 

The major - and best - addition coming from ME2, however, is obviously the famous Dialogue Interruption system. They can probably be (technically) considered a form of semi quick time event, to a certain degree, but contrarily to more full fledged QTE systems of various games ME2's Interruptions did not actually "do 'x' jobs/actions for you", but rather allowed your Shepard to directly act per se, even mimicking both unexpected sudden reactions from the player as well as Shepard him/herself. It was, in my opinion, a brilliant system which was also well executed and wasn't used too often either throughout the game. Even more interesting (and practical for many) was the fact that it was entirely optional.

 

Mass Effect 3

 

Similarly to ME2, the last game of the trilogy largely follows the mechanics of the original, keeps most of ME2's system intact, and adds some of its own on top of it all. My personal, and completely-subjective issue, however, with ME3's dialogue system is that some Interruptions and "debates" coming from the unique-to-ME3 "Arguments" system when a conversation (argument) is overheard have frankly an unnecessary link to the War Assets. Instead, in my book, they (Interrupts and "taking sides" in Arguments) should have had a direct impact on Shepard's very personality / morality over time similarly to how Hawke was affected by your choices in DAII. Had that system been reserved for Shepard we would later also most likely hear about our choices or "sides taken" (or argued about) by your teammates when talking to them after missions back on the Normandy (to the highest extent would have had the potential to even break a romance entirely).

 

On paper, however, the actual Arguments system in itself isn't necessarily well implemented to start with. It wasn't quite necessary to begin with to the franchise. My "problem" with that portion of the game's dialogue system is merely the fact that seeing my Shepard stopping by two strangers arguing about 'x' subject, drops in and leaves his/her ways of thinking to "impose" a final reflection on either of the two arguing persons felt very immersion-breaking, unfitting, unnecessary and frankly looked rather dumb... not to mention that the NPCs themselves weren't reacting to Shepard's presence.

 

It should have been the evidence incarnate to the development team that suspension of disbelief can only go so far when your Shepard stands right next to one of the two arguing NPCs, as they both continue to argue with each other, without ever turning towards you to politely or aggressively let you know that this conversation is none of your business regardless of who you might be. The actual implementation itself of that segment of the game's dialogue system might - as I see it - have had a better place in an actual scripted cut-scene in which you would actually see how Shepard would overhear the conversation to start with, and would also show the two arguing NPCs' actual physical location and distance in relation to Shepard's to make the whole scene more plausible, at the very least (and under that condition would have probably required more work on the dev team's part, which would have had as a result that such "Argument" scenes would have been rare, but perhaps would have had a much better role to play in the actual game-play and mostly role-play of our Shepard).

 

But other than some Interrupts conveniently giving War Asset points, and how clunky of an implementation their Argument system had, I found that ME3's dialogue system was generally efficient, mostly acceptable (that is completely excluding the fact that we even have the option to let our Shepard to auto-talk his/her way for most of the game, which in and of itself was in my opinion quite an aberration not only to the franchise but to RPG gaming in general, even if it was purely optional).

 

Mass Effect: Andromeda

 

Now, what would I myself like to see for that one...

 

I am mostly biased when it comes to my current favorite, which as I mentioned happens to be DAII's dialogue system, mostly I would suppose due to its great implementation (even if on paper it has a lesser complexity level when compared to that of Inquisition's). For Andromeda, however, I would definitely love to see the as-well-executed-as-DAII return of the Diplomatic/Charming, Sarcastic/Humorous, Aggressive/Provocative system that was initially created for DAII. A system that has a clear, direct, almost immediate and long-lasting (or permanent) effect on your protagonist throughout the entire game, not only for dialogue-based conversations and investigations, but also for cut-scenes.

 

I would also definitely like to see a "return" of the Interruption system, similarly to how it was executed for Mass Effect 2, perhaps with the addition of Class-specific Interruptions. I also like to imagine that BioWare could even create more [complex] Romance-based Interruptions (for example, the more "personal-level" romance-related hug-Interrupt we had between Shepard and Liara in the Shadow Broker DLC, but on a newer more complex level). And, as I described for ME3's Argument system, in and of itself wasn't a bad idea at all and I think that if well-scripted, well-situated and with purpose would definitely have its place(s) in ME:Andromeda. Additionally, perhaps take some of the "ineffective" (not to say "failed") types of responses that are unique to Inquisition and give them a much better delivered-by-VA quality (and situational purpose) for our new ME game.

 

All in all, for Andromeda I don't think that BioWare really has to look too far nor to create something anew and dangerously overly complex without much in returned substance, nor do they need to reinvent their own dialogue system wheel (excuse the pun here, but I had to). I think that they can (and have certainly considered it by now I assume) simply take the "best" parts of the dialogue system of their previous titles, and give us the most delicious directed and perhaps moderated soup of them all in the same package.

 

If, however, my choice had to be limited to just one of those six games mentioned then I would say that Dragon Age II's would be the clear winner to be implemented in Andromeda.

 

What About You?

 

Care to share your thoughts on this? What would you prefer? How do you imagine Andromeda's dialogue system?



#2
LPPrince

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An Andromeda spin on the dialogue wheel is what I'm expecting.



#3
Golden_Persona

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A system where mashing a button to skip dialogue doesn't also select a dialogue choice would be great.


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#4
sH0tgUn jUliA

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@Golden_Persona That's what Action Mode is for - you don't have to pick dialogue.

 

I liked Dragon Age Origins dialogue options. You knew what your character was going to say. I don't like picking one choice based on a paraphrase and having the character say something completely different. I don't really care about paragon, renegade, good, or evil in my dialogue choices. I'd like a snarky, sarcastic, or humorous one thrown in for lols just because I can't take stuff too seriously. I'm not mindlessly picking the upper right anyway.

 

We know there will be autodialogue. At least have the first line be exactly what you see in the dialogue wheel and the next couple of lines based off of that.

 

There were good points to the DA:I version as well, but I still want to see the first sentence.


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#5
BabyPuncher

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ME 2 system.

 

No 'meaningful' class interrupts or dialogue. Only effectively cosmetic ones.



#6
AresKeith

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I liked DAI's dialogue system, more improvement on it from ME:A would be better



#7
teh DRUMPf!!

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 Origins' system.

 

 

I like having a wide range of dialogue options and knowing exactly what I my character is about to say. Origins also was the game that I felt was most consistent in offering the dialogue that matched what I, the player, was thinking at the time (Inquisition the least of them).


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#8
Golden_Persona

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@Golden_Persona That's what Action Mode is for - you don't have to pick dialogue.

So rip out the heart and soul of what Mass Effect dialogue freedom is about? ME3 did that enough without action mode.



#9
Il Divo

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@Golden_Persona That's what Action Mode is for - you don't have to pick dialogue.

 

 

It still made it a pain in the ass for reloads, or conversations which you simply didn't care about (ME1 Tali). 



#10
Hinjo

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Origins' system. I would be OK with dialogue wheel, but it decreases number of choices we can make (usually to 2-3. I remember few situations where there were 4 options, but that's it).


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#11
SubjectZer0

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I hope they go back to the way it was in the first Mass Effect-you used to be able to choose literally EVERYTHING Shepard could say. There wasn't one time where you couldn't choose what to say. But then with each game you were able to say less and less and then by the third game there were times where you could only choose one dialogue option during a conversation :( so here's to hoping it goes back to the way it was in the first game.
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#12
SNascimento

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ME2 is the pinnacle of Bioware dialogue system. 



#13
Absafraginlootly

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*snip*

Dragon Age: Inquisition

 

On paper, DA:I's 27 types (icons) of dialogue choices is of course indisputably bigger than DAII's. And, ultimately, it should have had a complex impact on our ability / capacity to role-play our Inquisitor's personality. But after completing the game three times so far (once with a Human, another with a Qunari, and finally with an Elf) I would say that the actual effect on our chosen "personality" types over time was almost non-existent, or at the very least inconsistent. That, or perhaps I should say that it was either 1) not well-enough acted and conveyed by the VAs (or that the VAs were not properly informed as they were given the scripts to read) or 2) not properly planned ahead of time before (or during) the writing of the various game's scripts by the writers themselves (but I highly doubt that would be the case). It is only clear to me that something, somewhere, went wrong with either VA and/or writing (not quality-wise, but in relation to how the VAs had to express themselves at specific lines to give a clear indication of our chosen personality type).

 

As I mentioned above, on paper, it should have had a much greater impact than it successfully did in DAII. And to make it clear here I am not saying that the personality choices of DA:I's system didn't have an impact at all. I am simply referring here to short, medium and especially long-term "lasting" personality on our Inquisitor's ways to express him/herself based on our favored / recurring player dialogue wheel choices, in that regard DAII is the winner. The "fault", however, for DA:I isn't the actual dialogue system in and of itself. It's probably more related to communication issues between the writers, the voice actors/actresses and/or the other folks of the team responsible to direct the VAs as they perform live in the recording studio. Because in and of itself DA:I's dialogue system is complex and merits to have a reevaluated return in a future BioWare game given better direction.

*snip*

 

Dragon age inquisition does not have a personality system like da2 has. Its icons represent the emotion with which the line will be delivered. They are not consistent because they are not meant to be.



#14
H4RI

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Anything works as long as you get the option to push people off buildings.



#15
KaiserShep

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I hope they go back to the way it was in the first Mass Effect-you used to be able to choose literally EVERYTHING Shepard could say. There wasn't one time where you couldn't choose what to say. But then with each game you were able to say less and less and then by the third game there were times where you could only choose one dialogue option during a conversation :( so here's to hoping it goes back to the way it was in the first game.

 

 

Actually, there's a bit of a discrepancy between the actual number of different lines and the number of options reflected in the dialogue wheel. Sometimes, a second or third choice on the wheel would just lead to the same line, so it was tantamount to autodialogue with a prompt. One frustrating example is talking to Wrex about the genophage. No matter what, Shepard always considers it the same as what the humans went through in the First Contact War.


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#16
SNascimento

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Anything works as long as you get the option to push people off buildings.

I reason among similar lines. 



#17
NextGenCowboy

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i have to agree. Mass Effect 2 did the best job of allowing role playing, while at the same time forming a coherent character personality.

 

The one thing I would like to see implemented would be Mass Effect 3's neutral options granting Paragon and Renegade points (assuming they're still present), which would give people, myself included, incentive to actually pick the more neutral options, and not lock us into one type of main character if we want to pass all the checks.

 

Mass Effect 1, and Origins allows for more freedom in terms of selecting every piece of dialogue, but it meshes poorly with the flow of storytelling and, generally, other characters have to overact, or act as exposition to clarify our choices. ME2 fixed that.


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#18
Vicex

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I just want a system where it's not like "This is the good option", "This is the bad option", and "This is the neutral option". It takes away the immersion and makes responses so damn predictable. 



#19
Eelectrica

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Origins. At least more often than not the choices reflected what was chosen.

Even in Witcher 3 quite often I pick a dialogue option and Geralt says something other than what I was expecting which is kind of annoying.


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#20
Absafraginlootly

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Dialogue system I'd like to see:

  • Emotion Indicators - I don't care if they're symbols or just the emotion written in brackets next to the line, I want them. Regardless of whether there are paraphrases of full dialogue lines, they make the meaning of what a line will say and how it will be said clearer.
  • No Paragon/Renegade - I don't like this system, I'd rather it be left out or at least kept as a hidden mechanic.
  • Full Dialogue - Whilst paraphrase have gotten better and been assisted by emotion indicators, I'd still prefer to see what my character will actually say rather then pick a paraphrase and hope. 

I don't care whether its presented as a list or on a wheel - thats purely visual, not about the content.



#21
SubjectZer0

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Actually, there's a bit of a discrepancy between the actual number of different lines and the number of options reflected in the dialogue wheel. Sometimes, a second or third choice on the wheel would just lead to the same line, so it was tantamount to autodialogue with a prompt. One frustrating example is talking to Wrex about the genophage. No matter what, Shepard always considers it the same as what the humans went through in the First Contact War.


Oh wow you're right I just remembered that! It happens a few times in the game. Another time where no matter what choice you pick is after Eden Prime and you wake up in the med bay. Anderson asks Shepard what the vision from the beacon was and all the choices lead to Shepard saying the same thing, there's other examples but I can't think of them now. I always cringe at the part where Shepard compares First Contact to the genophage btw :/

#22
Duelist

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Oh wow you're right I just remembered that! It happens a few times in the game. Another time where no matter what choice you pick is after Eden Prime and you wake up in the med bay. Anderson asks Shepard what the vision from the beacon was and all the choices lead to Shepard saying the same thing, there's other examples but I can't think of them now. I always cringe at the part where Shepard compares First Contact to the genophage btw :/


Shepard has worse lines than that.

"I thought asari needed other species to reproduce?"
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#23
Linkenski

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I think DAIs system was extraordinary, but I'll actually vouch for ME1's system if you cut out the artificial choices that made Shepard say the same thing. The reason I pick that is, that I felt it allowed Bioware to give Shepard some real character in the first couple of hours (before they screwed him up with bad lines and stuff)because there was a frequent use of these layouts.

Choice1 -----(())----- choice 2

Usually by design, choice 1 is the "elaborate" option and choice 2 was " cut to the chase" but it was sometimes more liberal in what it meant,and because its binary it can make choices seem more grey sometimes.

It meant there was some linearity too, so Bioware could easilier build a proper character out of Shepard and it also meant it's cheaper than however much money they must have spent on DA:I's multifaced, multivoiced, and multiopinionated protagonist.

Last but not least, I dug renegade choices more than DA:I's "direct" choices. It's just more fun when Shepard is a douche.
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#24
Char

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I loved Snarky Hawke, so I'd support anything that allows me to play as a protagonist with a sense of humour rather than sickly sweet or general evil. I guess I'd quite like personalities with the addition of the interrupts. I played paragon Shep in dialogue but took every renegade interrupt for the sheer fun of it.

#25
MrObnoxiousUK

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We need a sneering imperialist for the colonizing the new frontier!