244 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Ah, but then, "Shepard takes one more breath and dies" is also fanon. Whatcha gonna do? 

Wonder why Shep's death gets to be confirmed but Shep surviving isn't artistic enough 

[KaiserShep]

Whether Shepard is alive or dead, I'd like to play as someone new.

 

However, are they going to be able to make another protagonist that the ME fan base doesn't compare to Shepard? That seems to be an unwinnable comparison. Shepard literally saved all life in the galaxy. That's pretty much the ceiling as far as heroism is concerned. Having an N7 character, protagonist or not, seems like a bad idea to me. N7 immediately reminds us of Shepard.

I can see some obnoxious threads cropping up as a result, but I don't think the N7 will change it at all, because the big thing is that it's still Mass Effect, so any protagonist, regardless of any formal designations, will be compared to Shepard. Just look at the comparisons of DA's protagonists, despite the fact that they all serve very different roles. 

[Kabooooom]

Well, I don't see exactly like this. I think it's different from the Catalyst too.
To clarify, I like (Para)Control.

My interpretation is that, the consciousness itself IS Shepard, or rather was him, in the same way that one Geth consciousness can be copied over to another server. Whether it is organic or synthetic in origin is ultimately irrelevant, the same information reproduced, reproduces the same conscious being. However, Shepard now has access to the collective consciousness of all Reapers. Thus, he is beyond Shepard. Something far greater than his original consciousness. Literally, godlike. It is an example of mortal to immortal transcendence, ascendance to the realm of the gods or oneself becoming a demigod. It is a classic concept from literature. I never did get why people were confused about it. The choice and explanation were very clear to me.

Of course, ascending to a conscious existence like that is equivalent to death - at least in the Buddhist sense of the word. He may be the same conscious being, but a completely different conscious experience. The Catalyst alludes to this. Is it really worth living immortally, if you are immortal in such a fashion? I vote no. The ephemeral nature of life is what grants life beauty and value.

[Dantriges]

Seems to me that god Shepard with his expanded consciousness is quite different from mortal Shepard. probably to shut down the idea that you upload, order the Reapers to take a bath in a nearby star then get back into a cloned or synthetic body. Sounds weird but Shepard was raised from the dead once and was still the same guy.   Or do it like EDI and get a networked body. It´s not same but well better than nothing.

[MattFini]

My Shepard lived each time I played ME3 because I never picked anything other than Destroy.

 

The bad idea was BioWare copping out and denying Shepard more than a breath scene in this scenario just so it didn't have favorability over the other two choices. 

[MattFini]

I was totally for Shepard dying. If they ended ME3 with Shepard, bleeding and battered, slamming a fist down to trigger the Crucible, followed by an endgame cutscene and an epilogue responsive to your decisions like the EC, I probably would have had 0 complaints about the endings. 

 

This too. I had no issue with Shep dying. 

 

When playing DA:O, I sacrificed my HoF without hesitation because it seemed to fit the character I created, and also the situation.

 

DA:O was incredibly satisfying because the ending/epilogue was done right.

 

ME3's decision chamber is anticlimactic because, from a narrative standpoint, it's passive (the "villain" allows the hero to make a choice instead of Shepard making one defiantly). This makes it unsatisfying.

 

And while the extended cut's epilogue slides are serviceable at best, it's a long way from the character closure that should've ended the game.

 

If we weren't going to see what happened to the rest of our squad long term (like DA:O), then at least a post-battle scene where they react to the end of the war and Shep's death (or breath). With more dramatic closure, I think even the goofiness of the RGB endings would've been accepted by more people. 

[CrutchCricket]

ME3's decision chamber is anticlimactic because, from a narrative standpoint, it's passive (the "villain" allows the hero to make a choice instead of Shepard making one defiantly). This makes it unsatisfying.

Understatement of the thread.

 

There are intestinal parasites more satisfying than what went down in that chamber.

[In Exile]

I strongly dislike the idea of Shepard having to die (aside from character attachments it's the whole "Space Jesus" thing ratcheted up to 11) but getting more Shepard stories (or even cameos) would be a worse idea. Even if I'd no complaints with ME3 I'd still say it's time to move on. Give us a decent new protagonist and other characters in ME:A and hopefully that'll be an end to people asking for them back.

I think with the way ME1-ME2 built up the reapers there had to be a cost. Hard to pay it without dead Shepard.

[fhs33721]

Understatement of the thread.

 

There are intestinal parasites more satisfying than what went down in that chamber.

Well to be fair, the villain allowing Shepard to make a choice was the only halway sensible way to handle it. I mean the villain is so far above Shepard on every level as Shepard is above a common worm. And quite frankly I think the whole "Infinitely more powerful entity/entities get beaten by random badass human.... somehow" is utterly stupid.

 

That being said, intestinal parasites can be useful for losing weight, so of course some people might find them satisfactionary .

[Iakus]

I was totally for Shepard dying. If they ended ME3 with Shepard, bleeding and battered, slamming a fist down to trigger the Crucible, followed by an endgame cutscene and an epilogue responsive to your decisions like the EC, I probably would have had 0 complaints about the endings. 

I'm fine with Shepard dying as a possible outcome.  But not in every (or all but one hinted at) outcome.

 

That's one reason why DAO's ending works.  You can sacrifice yourself.  Or not.  It's all valid.

[CrutchCricket]

Well to be fair, the villain allowing Shepard to make a choice was the only halway sensible way to handle it. I mean the villain is so far above Shepard on every level as Shepard is above a common worm. And quite frankly I think the whole "Infinitely more powerful entity/entities get beaten by random badass human.... somehow" is utterly stupid.

 

That being said, intestinal parasites can be useful for losing weight, so of course some people might find them satisfactionary .

Being allowed to win in a video game is never a sensible choice... especially in a Space Jesus power fantasy. That's what's utterly stupid.

 

Literally anything else is better, from improbably sunshine and bunnies happy ending to "you just flat out lose". And yes, straight up inevitable defeat is better because as it is, the Reapers were irrevocably ruined and cheaped anyway. As far above Shepard as he is above worms? Nope, they're just yo dawgin' killbots lol at the behest of a little kid.

 

Intestinal parasites can and very likely will do horrible things to you up to and including killing you. Using them to lose weight... is basically holokid "logic"

[Dantriges]

The kid was just a visual representation, the catalyst never even had a childhood. It was a poorly chosen image by the AI though.

 

I didn´t get why Shepard´s sacrifice was necessary for the process anyways and made his death a bit pointless. 

[fhs33721]

Being allowed to win in a video game is never a sensible choice... especially in a Space Jesus power fantasy. That's what's utterly stupid.

 

Literally anything else is better, from improbably sunshine and bunnies happy ending to "you just flat out lose". And yes, straight up inevitable defeat is better because as it is, the Reapers were irrevocably ruined and cheaped anyway. As far above Shepard as he is above worms? Nope, they're just yo dawgin' killbots lol at the behest of a little kid.

 

Intestinal parasites can and very likely will do horrible things to you up to and including killing you. Using them to lose weight... is basically holokid "logic"

I agree that flat out losing would have been a better ending. But only because it would have made the most sense. Sunshine and bunnies would have been worse than what we got though, as far as I'm concerned at least.  And yes, Shepard is a pathetic insect compared to the Reapers. The fact that they are killbots that run on arguably faulty logic does not change anything about that. Just like every human is still infinitely greater than a worm even if he's a dumb idiot that still thinks the sun rotates around the earth.

Also, you do realize that the cataclyst is not really a ittle kid, but a millenia old artificial intelligence, do you? As Dantriges pointed out the kid is just a hologram used to communicate with Shepard (I'm not going to say that it isn't a stupid form though.).

[Dantriges]

To quote Sovereign "confidence born of ignorance." Fits the Reapers perfectly.

They are the pinnacle of faulty logic.

They have superior technology but for all we know most of it was probably stolen from Leviathan and later species.

 

The only thing that transcends our very understanding is the sheer amount of stupidity running rampant in Reaper society.

It seems to me that EDI was more adaptable in her programming and reasoning than the starkid, which was locked into its  way of thinking. It seemed to me as simply executing lines from his code until the crucible showed up and then it went "Woah, you are really resourceful, saw that thing being constructed for several cycles and never realized that it could do the very thing I was looking for all this time."

 

IMO technological superiority doesn´t turn everyone else into a bunch of worms compared to the guy with the more sophisticated tech.

[CrutchCricket]

 And yes, Shepard is a pathetic insect compared to the Reapers. The fact that they are killbots that run on arguably faulty logic does not change anything about that. Just like every human is still infinitely greater than a worm even if he's a dumb idiot that still thinks the sun rotates around the earth.

"The Reaper on Tuchanka was defeated... by a worm"

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Wait. Shepard jumped into the beam and turned the galaxy green so she wouldn't have to listen to any more jokes about how she thought asari needed other species to reproduce. It's over. She died. I watched her add her essence to the Crucible where she was sent out among the stars. Now a piece of The Shepard lives on in everyone, everything, every plant, amoeba, human, turian, asari, hanar, elcor, krogan, geth, quarian, etc. EDI is alive and not alone. She's with Jeff. I got closure, finally, dammit!

 

Tell me another story about The Shepard.

[Iakus]

Wait. Shepard jumped into the beam and turned the galaxy green so she wouldn't have to listen to any more jokes about how she thought asari needed other species to reproduce. It's over. She died. I watched her add her essence to the Crucible where she was sent out among the stars. Now a piece of The Shepard lives on in everyone, everything, every plant, amoeba, human, turian, asari, hanar, elcor, krogan, geth, quarian, etc. EDI is alive and not alone. She's with Jeff. I got closure, finally, dammit!

 

Tell me another story about The Shepard.

Oh, relax kids. I've got a "gut" feeling Shepard's around here somewhere.  After all, isn't there a little Shepard in all of us?  In fact, you might say we just ate Shepard and he's in our stomachs right now!

 

Wait. Scratch that last one  

[themikefest]

 

Tell me another story about The Shepard.

In a galaxy far, far, oh heck lets go further, there was woman named Jane Shepard. She lives on a farm in Kansas. She has 3 teenage children and her husband died a few years ago from an illness. For the last couple of years, she has been fighting the local government over land rights. The game will be called....Farm Effect

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Killing Shepard is a wonderful idea!   

[fhs33721]

"The Reaper on Tuchanka was defeated... by a worm"

So? Hundreds of humans have been killed by cows. Other causes of death include ants, parasitic worms, coconuts falling on their head at the beach and breaking their necks while trying to jump into a pool form the third floor. Yet somehow we are still the most advanced species on earth. 

IMO technological superiority doesn´t turn everyone else into a bunch of worms compared to the guy with the more sophisticated tech.

Technological superiority alone maybe not. But I'm pretty sure once you reach the point where you can basically warp everyone (except for plot armored individuals) elses mind however you see fit with your mere presence you are kind of pretty high above them.

Not to mention that the Reapers are supposed to be infinitely more intelligent than a single human as well, since they have waaay more processing power. Legion himself says as much when he describes what interfacing with a Reapers mind was like "They are magnitudes above us. A single thought was immense, overwhelming.. unknowable."

True their superior intelligence doesn't show much, because they have to hold the villain ball constantly so that Shepard has even the slightest chance to win the game, but the lore still makes it very clear tat they are indeed our intellecual superiors.

Please note that I do not think, that their obvious superiority gives them any right to trample around on everyone else. They are still huge d*cks and I'm not trying to defend their actions.

[CrutchCricket]

So? Hundreds of humans have been killed by cows. Other causes of death include ants, parasitic worms, coconuts falling on their head at the beach and breaking their necks while trying to jump into a pool form the third floor. Yet somehow we are still the most advanced species on earth. 

Please note that I do not think, that their obvious superiority gives them any right to trample around on everyone else. They are still huge d*cks and I'm not trying to defend their actions.

Which doesn't count for much for those who have been killed by cows, ants, parasitic worms or coconuts falling on their head. Dead is dead. And it's indicative of fallibility.