It may be contrived, but the entire point of Mass Effect 2 was that Shepard became "The Last Boss" for the Reaper's and was somehow very special, so...
The entire plot of the ME series is that a soldier gets to make galaxy changing decisions 24/7 just cause he's so badass and charismatic.
Leviathan tech. Important distinction.
Not really. It's the same precursor civilization, more or less. Just with more blender. There could easily be another precursor civilization.
Not true. The Reapers developed and constructed the Citadel and the Mass Relays. Sovereign and Leviathan tell us this.
Sovereign is not the most reliable source. But yes, maybe they built the Citadel, but I doubt that was revolutionary new technology. Architecture doesn't qualify as 'making your own technology'. They obviously can recycle other people's stuff (their zombies, for example) but actually making a big technological breakthrough?
Do you realize they spend thousands of years dormant, thousands of years during which they seem to do pretty much nothing? If they actually made their own technology, 1) we could tell, but we never face any recently developed Reaper tech, 2) they wouldn't need to steal other people's, and 3) they would be virtually undefeatable, and certainly not able to be beat by things as insignificant as the keepers being jammed or the Crucible.
Hell, have they even bothered to update their system since they started doing this? The very fact that we can beat them shows they have done jack the last couple of billion years.
Well, I'd say building the Collector base in the galactic core is impressive.Sovereign is not the most reliable source. But yes, maybe they built the Citadel, but I doubt that was revolutionary new technology. Architecture doesn't qualify as 'making your own technology'. They obviously can recycle other people's stuff (their zombies, for example) but actually making a big technological breakthrough?
Do you realize they spend thousands of years dormant, thousands of years during which they seem to do pretty much nothing? If they actually made their own technology, 1) we could tell, but we never face any recently developed Reaper tech, 2) they wouldn't need to steal other people's, and 3) they would be virtually undefeatable, and certainly not able to be beat by things as insignificant as the keepers being jammed or the Crucible.
Hell, have they even bothered to update their system since they started doing this? The very fact that we can beat them shows they have done jack the last couple of billion years.
Well, I'd say building the Collector base in the galactic core is impressive.
Well, it's called the collector base for a reason. Again, a feat of engineering, but that does not signal a technological breakthrough in and of itself and at any rate it was made by indoctrinated proteans.
Yeah, maybe the Reapers had some creativity and imagination. But my point is that if they really experienced technological progress on a regular basis, they would not steal tech from civilizations just a few thousand years old and they would be way, waaaaaaaaaay stronger.
Sovereign is not the most reliable source. But yes, maybe they built the Citadel, but I doubt that was revolutionary new technology. Architecture doesn't qualify as 'making your own technology'. They obviously can recycle other people's stuff (their zombies, for example) but actually making a big technological breakthrough?
Hence why I also mentioned Leviathan. They are far too arrogant to not take credit where credit for what they did.
Installations that can sent you instantaneously across hundreds or even thousands of light years isn't revolutionary new technology or a big technological breakthrough?
Do you realize they spend thousands of years dormant, thousands of years during which they seem to do pretty much nothing? If they actually made their own technology, 1) we could tell, but we never face any recently developed Reaper tech, 2) they wouldn't need to steal other people's, and 3) they would be virtually undefeatable, and certainly not able to be beat by things as insignificant as the keepers being jammed or the Crucible.
Where is this stated? The only time them taking big naps comes up is when using info from Vigil, who admits he can only hypothesize about the Reapers.
1) The Collectors are recently developed Reaper tech, relatively speaking. The husk versions of our races are newly developed Reaper technology.
2) They don't steal other people's. When have you seen Reaper troops use tech from the cycles?
3) They weren't beat by the Keepers being jammed. They were delayed, which is not the same thing.
Hell, have they even bothered to update their system since they started doing this? The very fact that we can beat them shows they have done jack the last couple of billion years.
Source on them not updating themselves?
They were defeated only because 1)They were given the Idiot Ball by Bioware, and 2) We had a Deus Ex Machina device.
Well, it's called the collector base for a reason. Again, a feat of engineering, but that does not signal a technological breakthrough in and of itself and at any rate it was made by indoctrinated proteans.
Yeah, maybe the Reapers had some creativity and imagination. But my point is that if they really experienced technological progress on a regular basis, they would not steal tech from civilizations just a few thousand years old and they would be way, waaaaaaaaaay stronger.
Indoctrinated Protheans are puppets of the Reapers. By your logic, the Colosseum wasn't built by the Romans since they had slaves and prisoners do it.
Again, we had to have a DEM and they had to have the Idiot Ball for us to win.
Hence why I also mentioned Leviathan. They are far too arrogant to not take credit where credit for what they did.
Noticed. Just pointing it out 
Installations that can sent you instantaneously across hundreds or even thousands of light years isn't revolutionary new technology or a big technological breakthrough?
Recycled leviathan tech (relays).
Where is this stated? The only time them taking big naps comes up is when using info from Vigil, who admits he can only hypothesize about the Reapers.
Hence the rest of my post explaining why they don't do anything. Anything useful, anyway 
1) The Collectors are recently developed Reaper tech, relatively speaking. The husk versions of our races are newly developed Reaper technology.
I said they could recycle other people's stuff, which could be seen in their zombies. And even this could easily be stolen. Remember the zha'til?
2) They don't steal other people's. When have you seen Reaper troops use tech from the cycles?
It's in the codex, for ME3 I think. Will look it up.
3) They weren't beat by the Keepers being jammed. They were delayed, which is not the same thing.
I wasn't being literal.
Source on them not updating themselves?
They were defeated only because 1)They were given the Idiot Ball by Bioware, and 2) We had a Deus Ex Machina device.
Indeed, but they're one billion years old. The current cycle doesn't have civilizations older than three thousand.
Is that really the best they can do? Not Bioware, I know that. Talking about the Reapers here.
This cycle shouldn't pose ANY threat to the Reapers. Our machine friends should be able to wipe everyone with their thumb.
Indoctrinated Protheans are puppets of the Reapers. By your logic, the Colosseum wasn't built by the Romans since they had slaves and prisoners do it.
Saren was indoctrinated but was useful because he wasn't just a puppet. Protheans no doubt added knowledge the Reapers considered useful when they were indoctrinated. That's the whole point of giant ships keeping meatsacks as slaves.
Not true. The Reapers developed and constructed the Citadel and the Mass Relays. Sovereign and Leviathan tell us this.
There is a difference between construction and invention. The gates and Citadel built by them via slave races but the technology was not of their own.
Except again Leviathan states that the Reapers created the Citadel and Mass Relays. Create means "to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.". The Reapers thought up, invented, created, and constructed them. Every step of the way from thought to actuality was because of them.
Indeed, but they're one billion years old. The current cycle doesn't have civilizations older than three thousand.
Is that really the best they can do? Not Bioware, I know that. Talking about the Reapers here.
This cycle shouldn't pose ANY threat to the Reapers. Our machine friends should be able to wipe everyone with their thumb.
You mean the current cycle doesn't have civilization that have been space-faring for more than three thousand years, right? Just asking since they definitely have civilizations older than three thousand. The asari had a civilization over 50,000 years old since they had contact with the Protheans.
The best the Reapers can do is limited by the best Bioware can do, since Bioware dictates everything they do. 
I agree with you. Even Bioware said that they wrote themselves in a bit of a corner with how powerful they made the Reapers, and thus why the Reapers got the Idiot Ball and we got a Deus Ex Machina.
Saren was indoctrinated but was useful because he wasn't just a puppet. Protheans no doubt added knowledge the Reapers considered useful when they were indoctrinated. That's the whole point of giant ships keeping meatsacks as slaves.
Something being useful doesn't mean they aren't a puppet. We have drones that are useful in a variety of ways, yet they are still puppets to the people controlling them. Same for the indoctrinated people, since they served the Reapers in their goals.
Except again Leviathan states that the Reapers created the Citadel and Mass Relays. Create means "to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.". The Reapers thought up, invented, created, and constructed them. Every step of the way from thought to actuality was because of them.
It may very well have been "preserve all life in this galaxy". We don't know how exactly Leviathan programmed them.
If they would expand to Andromeda, why not to other galaxies as well?
For reasonable work, they need some boundaries of work. It's basic design.
Otherwise they would attempt to spread everywhere, which would make no sense for their constructors.
Leviathan wasn't interested in Andromeda. They wanted alive, subjugated races in Milky Way. And that's why they created the Reaper intelligence.
The programming did not specify a particular galaxy just the mandate to "preserve life" the reaper's are sentient machines who would've expanded their programming to include other galaxies.
Oh, sweet mother of... They weren't. The Reapers never came up with anything. The technology they have? They took it from the Leviathans, or from some of the other cycles. It's noted in the codex technology is one of the things they bother to salvage. They don't make anything themselves. They don't experience progress. If they did, they would already be a Type III and Shepard and co would be screwed.
Why only 2-3 years? The Reapers are the worst kept secret ever. Do you realize how many people knew about them even before the events of ME1? Jack Harper, Liara, Tali, that volus millionnaire; basically, everyone who was open minded enough and had a reasonable knowledge about either archeology or folklore (remember the ME1 codex?).
The vast majority of the galaxy denies their existence only a handful of people know of their existence.
How do you know it's not specific to the Milky Way?
Read one of my earlier replies, the program was not specific to a certain galaxy.
It would be incredibly stupid of the Reapers to leave the controlled environment and closed system that is the Milky Way for the big dark unknown. For one, the universe is huge. They would never be able to police it in its entirety, especially since they're stagnant as hell. But that's actually irrelevant, since they're most definitely not the biggest fish in the sea. If they go to every galaxy out there they will eventually be squashed like the bugs they are by someone bigger and badder.
No it wouldn't the reapers had several billion years to set up their presence in another galaxy, the had the resources to do so as well.
At least organics are desperate. The Reapers are comfortably sitting in a galaxy they are able to control only because the game is rigged in their favor.
Again they had several billions years to establish their presence in multiple galaxies.
Not really. All it takes is a chance. The Reaper's rely on organics to follow a specific technological path, all it takes is one outlier, one random chance of a guy saying, "this mass effect stuff is shady" and pursuing other avenues of advancement for a new, alternative FTL method to be found. The Reaper's never did everything "the best way", they did it their way, and were very narrow in that regard.
Alternatively, the Crucible, what it is and how its found are also contrivances in the story. If a million year old weapon can be found, built and utilized within a year to defeat the Reapers, I wouldn't put it past BW to say a ship/engine could too.
It may be contrived, but the entire point of Mass Effect 2 was that Shepard became "The Last Boss" for the Reaper's and was somehow very special, so...
Except the reaper's would never let another civilization to technology surpass them, that's why sovereign serve's as a vanguard to keep an eye on the technological development of the galaxy.
Semantics. You're picking up on an imprecise word used in the wrong context. There is no evidence of Reaper invention anywhere else across the trilogy. They also say they harvest races and their technology in order to preserve it.
Give me proof that the Reapers aren't the architects of the Citadel and Mass Relays.
We have it from them and the people who created the thing that created them that they are.
The programming did not specify a particular galaxy just the mandate to "preserve life" the reaper's are sentient machines who would've expanded their programming to include other galaxies.
The realm of influence of their creators extended only to MW tho.
And as a more of a real-world argument, if they're written to expand beyond Milky Way it means we're gonna be dealing with the Reapers in ME4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. Who wants that lol? They're so boring and overdone at this point
And as a more of a real-world argument, if they're written to expand beyond Milky Way it means we're gonna be dealing with the Reapers in ME4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. Who wants that lol? They're so boring and overdone at this point
Not if they travel as one giant fleet to maximize the efficiency of the harvests. In that case, all the Reapers, or at least those in the local galactic group, have been dealt with, other than the vanguards of course but we're able to defeat a single Reaper and they spend most of their time napping. In short, just because they have gone to other galaxies doesn't mean they are there and/or will show up in future plots.
Not if they travel as one giant fleet to maximize the efficiency of the harvests. In that case, all the Reapers, or at least those in the local galactic group, have been dealt with, other than the vanguards of course but we're able to defeat a single Reaper and they spend most of their time napping. In short, just because they have gone to other galaxies doesn't mean they are there and/or will show up in future plots.
Any extension beyond 1 galaxy means there should be tons of Reaper fleets all over the entire Supercluster our Local Group is located in if not a sizeabale chunk of the universe already after billion+ years they existed. Failure of Local Group fleet would mean nothing.
They're using a TARDIS to get there, right?
Any extension beyond 1 galaxy means there should be tons of Reaper fleets all over the entire Supercluster our Local Group is located in if not a sizeabale chunk of the universe already after billion+ years they existed. Failure of Local Group fleet would mean nothing.
I know, but on the other hand the other fleets in other galactic groups can't spare too many or else risk losing control of their domain. And even the ones they could send would take a very long time to get to our group and arrive sporadically, time which we would be advancing at an exponential rate thanks to the Reapers we killed and/or made friends with. In the former case, we would be on par with them in a conventional fight. In the latter case, our new Reaper pals would tell the other Reapers that a solution has been found thus the need for the cycles becomes nonexistent.
Why does it matter whether the Reapers built the Relays? The assumption that this is the only way to travel is absurd.
Why does it matter whether the Reapers built the Relays? The assumption that this is the only way to travel is absurd.
The notion of using ways to travel other than mass effect technology is even more absurd. The series is called Mass Effect, and the Mass Relays are the symbol of that technology.
The notion of using ways to travel other than mass effect technology is even more absurd. The series is called Mass Effect, and the Mass Relays are the symbol of that technology.
The "mass effect" is nonsensical gibberish. If the developers invent some how way of "using" mass effect fields to warp gate to Andromeda, it'll be as valid as any of the other gibberish/nonsense they use to ignore physics. That's my point.
I know, but on the other hand the other fleets in other galactic groups can't spare too many or else risk losing control of their domain. And even the ones they could send would take a very long time to get to our group and arrive sporadically, time which we would be advancing at an exponential rate thanks to the Reapers we killed and/or made friends with. In the former case, we would be on par with them in a conventional fight. In the latter case, our new Reaper pals would tell the other Reapers that a solution has been found thus the need for the cycles becomes nonexistent.
Look how many galaxies are around our Local Group.
Sending minimal reinforcements from fleets in neighbouring groups would replenish "our" fleet easily. And it wouldn't take very long at all, not at the speed Reapers can move. In case of other fleets getting a signal that a solution has been found it doesn't change much because the Crucible wave that implenets the new solution doesn't reach them.
Look how many galaxies are around our Local Group.
*snip*
Sending minimal reinforcements from fleets in neighbouring groups would replenish "our" fleet easily. And it wouldn't take very long at all, not at the speed Reapers can move. In case of other fleets getting a signal that a solution has been found it doesn't change much because the Crucible wave that implenets the new solution doesn't reach them.
Your image doesn't show how many galaxies are in our local galactic group. There are 54 galactic bodies in our local galactic group. We are a relatively small and barren galactic group.
It would take Reapers over a couple centuries to get from the Milky Way to Andromeda. Meaning it would take the ones in even the closest group at least a millennium to reach our galactic group. For others it would take tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years to reach our galactic group from theirs. And during that time we would be advancing.
True, but it lets them know that the Crucible is the solution they seek so can leave plans for it like they did other technology.
The point is, we dealt with the Reapers in our local galactic group so there would be no reason for them to have Reapers actually show up again since they won't for a long time. On the flip side, them being intergalactic gets rid of some issues that exist.
Could be interesting if we discovered some of the alien races in Andromeda aren't native either, but instead are the descendants of a previous Cycle's attempt to escape the Reapers by sending an expedition out of the galaxy?
Let's go with this for a second, by the time the first descendants arrive a Andromeda, how many Cycle's would have taken place back on the Milky-way since they had left?
I can be flexible with the science. You have to be in a science fiction setting, after all. But it still has to stay consistent with itself. Even the violation of science should stay consistent with the lore we are presented.
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