Honestly, I'd be more concerned why there isn't reaper tech if it didn't exist there. They are millions of years old, at the start of ME3 at most 230 years away, based on the reaper speed stated by the codex.
ANd? Again, A follows B, not the other way around. The Reapers had no reason to go to Andromeda. Period. There is nothing in their programming OR the writing of the first three games that indicates they did so, either. Period.
It is just fanon.
Honestly, I'd be more concerned why there isn't reaper tech if it didn't exist there. They are millions of years old, at the start of ME3 at most 230 years away, based on the reaper speed stated by the codex.
The Reapers are actually at least a billion years old. The Leviathan of Dis, a dead Reaper Dreadnought, was aged at a billion years old. And they had to exist before then to make that one.
ANd? Again, A follows B, not the other way around. The Reapers had no reason to go to Andromeda. Period. There is nothing in their programming OR the writing of the first three games that indicates they did so, either. Period.
It is just fanon.
You saying they didn't is also just fanon. There is nothing in the lore that says they didn't.
As for nothing in their programming, you are incorrect. Their mandate was to preserve life. That's it. The mandate was vague enough that even the creators were harvested. There is life in Andromeda, therefore by their programming the Reapers have a reason to go there.
They were never able to be defeated by conventional means.
Same logic applies whether the Reapers are isolated to the Milky Way or not. There could always be reserves tucked away if needed. Only thing that matters to the narrative is that they were all involved in the Milky Way harvest, and thus were within the Crucible's radius.
I think your missing what I mean by conventional means. A fleet challenged the Reapers, at some points we were actually able to beat groups of Reapers. If there was 100000000000000000000000000000000 than the possibility of the races of the MW fighting off even a quarter of the fleet is impossible. We would lose EVERY battle which we didn't. We lost most of them, but I mean the possibility of us ever succeeding at anything goes out the window. Plus if the number was that high we'd have more than one or two Reapers per square mile of a planet.
EXACTLY. All of the Reapers would need to be involved in the Milky Way harvest and so if there were several trillion of them for each race in x amount of galaxies than they'd either commit only a portion of them to harvesting the Milky Way while they continued to harvest more galaxies which would mean more Reaper Fleets making firing off the Crucible pointless OR they'd be so involved with harvesting other galaxies that the idea of them returning every 50k years would be silly. That's also ignoring the idea that in all of that time they wouldn't have run into anything that would have somehow altered their programming, wouldn't consider the idea that there might not be any more life or more simply they got their asses handed to them by something bigger or badder.
There's always the possibility that the Reapers harvest only the galaxies in the local galactic group since they haven't advanced enough to travel from one galactic group to the next yet. Travelling between galactic groups is exponentially harder than travelling between galaxies, just like travelling between galaxies is exponentially harder than travelling between stars. Thus all the Reapers, minus the napping vanguards, are accounted for.
No we weren't. The only time we ever won it was when there was one Reaper, and even then it was almost always the small Reaper Destroyers and almost always unconventional in nature. Every time there was even two Reapers or more, we lost. Other than when we use the Crucible of course, but that isn't conventional warfare.
What's your point? Whether they waxed poetic or were to the point, they were saying they had Reapers beyond counting in their fleet.
The fact that Shepard was able to take out one Reaper with anything other than the entire galaxy's fleet means that conventional warfare was possible. Rannoch is the perfect example for this.
Because they were trying to be intimidating. Do you really think they had enough Reapers to completely block out the sun?
You saying they didn't is also just fanon. There is nothing in the lore that says they didn't.
Not following you.
Do you honestly say everything must be spelled out for you, or you assume all kind of things?
The trilogy never mentions other galaxies. That includes the bad guys.
The space magic at the end never leaves this galaxy. You see it on a map clearly.
Those are just two things.
The fact that Shepard was able to take out one Reaper with anything other than the entire galaxy's fleet means that conventional warfare was possible. Rannoch is the perfect example for this.
Because they were trying to be intimidating. Do you really think they had enough Reapers to completely block out the sun?
LOL No.
You have obviously not played the third game if you even remotely believe conventional victory was possible.
There's always the possibility that the Reapers harvest only the galaxies in the local galactic group since they haven't advanced enough to travel from one galactic group to the next yet. Travelling between galactic groups is exponentially harder than travelling between galaxies, just like travelling between galaxies is exponentially harder than travelling between stars. Thus all the Reapers, minus the napping vanguards, are accounted for.
But here's the thing. If the Reapers have the imperative to preserve ALL life and then that somehow drives them to invade other galaxies than that same imperative would demand them find a way to make it to other galactic groups. It's either they have to preserve ALL life or they care only about the MW life as we've been led to believe and when they're done harvesting our galaxy then they return to dark space to recharge for the next harvest.
The fact that Shepard was able to take out one Reaper with anything other than the entire galaxy's fleet means that conventional warfare was possible. Rannoch is the perfect example for this.
An entire fleet to kill one Reaper Destroyer. With that ratio, the numbers are unsustainable. We would have nowhere even a fraction near enough ships or people to crew those ships. We would be overwhelmed and defeated. There is no way to defeat them conventionally.
Yes. They have been around for at least 1 billion years. Each cycle is 50,000 years. That comes out as around at least 20,000 Reaper Dreadnoughts. And exponentially more Reaper Destroyers. And exponentially more Troop Transport and Processor drone ships. The numbers plus the size of even the "small" ones, they'd block out the sky easily.
Not following you.
Do you honestly say everything must be spelled out for you, or you assume all kind of things?
No, I say that if someone is going to talk in definitive statements they better have evidence to back their statements up.
The trilogy never mentions other galaxies. That includes the bad guys.
The space magic at the end never leaves this galaxy. You see it on a map clearly.
Those are just two things.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I never said the Crucible wave expanded past the Milky Way.
But here's the thing. If the Reapers have the imperative to preserve ALL life and then that somehow drives them to invade other galaxies than that same imperative would demand them find a way to make it to other galactic groups. It's either they have to preserve ALL life or they care only about the MW life as we've been led to believe and when they're done harvesting our galaxy then they return to dark space to recharge for the next harvest.
Hence me saying the word 'yet' in my post, as in the Reapers are working on a way to go to other galactic groups but haven't achieved it so far.
Not following you.
Do you honestly say everything must be spelled out for you, or you assume all kind of things?
The trilogy never mentions other galaxies. That includes the bad guys.
The space magic at the end never leaves this galaxy. You see it on a map clearly.
Those are just two things.
LOL No.
You have obviously not played the third game if you even remotely believe conventional victory was possible.
LOL. I'm not saying that on a Galaxy wide level that conventional victory was possible what I've been saying is this.
1. The Reapers required a full invasion with the entirety of their fleet to harvest the MW. THAT is required for ANY solution to matter because if they don't than there is nothing stopping them from invading again right after the Crucible fires. This is why them traveling to other galaxies and breaking up their fleet would make the entirety of the Mass Effect trilogy pointless because we didn't win, we stopped the first attack and maybe not even the largest one.
2. The idea that two or three fleets would be able to engage a group of Reapers, lets say three or four just for arguments sake is impossible if they've continued to grow exponentially for a billion years (and have committed their full fleet to this invasion) because the fleet would be made up of trillions of Reapers and thus would be able to send a whole lot more Reapers to each engagement. The number of Reapers per world would be much greater than they were. Obviously I don't know that for sure, but the Reapers even if they only harvested our galactic group 2 or 3 times would too many Reapers to mount any defense against. The ratio of ground troops to reapers would be incalculable
That's all I meant.
That's all I'm saying.
An entire fleet to kill one Reaper Destroyer. With that ratio, the numbers are unsustainable. We would have nowhere even a fraction near enough ships or people to crew those ships. We would be overwhelmed and defeated. There is no way to defeat them conventionally.
Yes. They have been around for at least 1 billion years. Each cycle is 50,000 years. That comes out as around at least 20,000 Reaper Dreadnoughts. And exponentially more Reaper Destroyers. And exponentially more Troop Transport and Processor drone ships. The numbers plus the size of even the "small" ones, they'd block out the sky easily.
I still don't think you see what I'm saying. With the numbers of a galactic group sized Reaper force that has been repeatedly creating new troops/Reapers there is no possible way to mount any defense at all. None at all because their numbers have been growing exponentially and go from being very large to being actually endless. I'm not saying that victory is achievable in a straight up fight because a McGuffin is required regardless to beat the fleet, but I mean with the knowledge that over a dozen galaxies (in just our galactic group) have been supplying the Reapers with new ships, troops, etc than that makes it silly that the only Reapers they left in orbit of Earth seemed to be maybe twenty or forty know what I mean?
2. But they didn't. Which is all that matters, when they invaded Earth there were DOZENS of them, but they didn't block out the sun or darken it or whatever, it was illustrative language for a finite (read: still impressively large) fleet that had completed the task of harvesting the galaxy multiple times before.
No, I say that if someone is going to talk in definitive statements they better have evidence to back their statements up.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I never said the Crucible wave expanded past the Milky Way.
Hence me saying the word 'yet' in my post, as in the Reapers are working on a way to go to other galactic groups but haven't achieved it so far.
True, but unless it's something that actually physically impeding them than it's just a matter of time and if their primary concern is time than boom right there a reason why they'd prefer to stay in the MW.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I never said the Crucible wave expanded past the Milky Way.
Not following you.
Do you honestly say everything must be spelled out for you, or you assume all kind of things?
The trilogy never mentions other galaxies. That includes the bad guys.
The space magic at the end never leaves this galaxy. You see it on a map clearly.
Those are just two things.
The Reapers have a mandate to "Preserve life at any cost" THere are no qualifiers to that. It was not "to preserve galactic life" or "Preserve life, as long as it doesn't take too long to get there"
Consider also, the Reapers didn't start out with 20,000 Sovereigns and 100K+ destroyers and such. They built them. As they built the relays and the Citadel. Who's to say they didn't spend a few centuries going to Andromeda (and other galaxies in the local cluster) wipe out advanced life, built a few more Reapers and networks, then return to the Milky Way, leaving behind their new Reapers to start their own harvesting cycle.
Each galaxy could have its own Reaper "brood" like cicadas.
ANd? Again, A follows B, not the other way around. The Reapers had no reason to go to Andromeda. Period. There is nothing in their programming OR the writing of the first three games that indicates they did so, either. Period.
It is just fanon.
The Reapers motivation and unlimited mandate is more than reason enough.
The point of the Cycle was to pre-empt the rise of a synthetic technological singularity that could permanently edge organic life. There's no reason that such a singularity couldn't/wouldn't arise in a galaxy other than the milky way.
There's no conceptual difference between synthetics arising on the far side of the galaxy and synthetics arising on the next galaxy. The Reaper's own stated goals, and abilities, have no natural limit to restrict them from other galaxies.
If it doesn't, the synthesis solution would 'fix' other galaxies... how exactly?
By existing,
Just the act/premise of Synthesis resolves the Catalyst's delimma. The solution doesn't have to be everywhere at once for it to to be valid. It can spread later if it needs to, but the importance of synthesis is that it breaks the paradigm, not that it resolves all differences right away.
An entire fleet destroyed the destroyer on Rannoch? I only saw what looked to be only 5 maybe six ships firing at the thing.
An entire fleet destroyed the destroyer on Rannoch? I only saw what looked to be only 5 maybe six ships firing at the thing.
It is the entire fleet. it is both shown, and told to you.
As for people arguing we could beat them conventionally... According to canon there are what? Less than 200 dreadnoughts divided among all the races in the galaxy. Total.
Three dreadnoughts engaging it simultaneously is required to take down one Reaper capital ship (also explicitly told in canon). There are, counting very conservatively, at least 10 000 Reaper capital ships. Plus at least, counting conservatively again, at least 50 000 Reaper destroyers.
It is the entire fleet. it is both shown, and told to you.
Shpw me a scene with all the ships firing at the destroyer
The real issue isn't how you get to Andromeda. The issue is how you get around Andromeda once you get there.
It's both, but you raise a good point.
Noveria also opens up the possibility that these things anomalies were being investigated before the Reaper invasion. Which would more neatly answer the question of "Why are we sinking resources into a purely theoretical project while we're fighting for our survival?" question. It's already been going on for years. But now there's a time crunch.
It still doesn't answer the question of how can we move so many people in secret, or why the Reapers never bothered with this,
Not just the Crucible, but also Ilos. I suppose it wasn't as theoretical but it was a last ditch survival effort and they didn't know how long the invasion would last.
The point is, we dealt with the Reapers in our local galactic group so there would be no reason for them to have Reapers actually show up again since they won't for a long time. On the flip side, them being intergalactic gets rid of some issues that exist.
Yet adds other issues. Even "temprorarily" dealt-with Reapers still leave them as the threat hanging all over the universe. We also have very convinient discovery of a relay to Andromeda. I say we've had enough of convinient discoveries in the series already, ME3 in particular. Reverse Engineering reaper core drive tech (like we did with their guns) is enough to get us to Andromeda combined with rest of the tech we already have. So why not go this way? The boring/hard way instead of convinient discovery of wormholes, relays to Andromeda or something else.
Have you watched the final cutscene?
Have you? It doesn't show the entire fleet firing
Have you? It doesn't show the entire fleet firing
It is implied though, isn't it? You sync the laser to the entire fleet so they can fire on the reaper.
It is implied though, isn't it? You sync the laser to the entire fleet so they can fire on the reaper.
Implied, yes. The whole fleet firing at the destroyer, no.
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