So they have the technological capacity to go to Andromeda but not the next galaxy when we don't know how far that is?
And comparing them to us in RL isn't really a good comparison in the first place
We know how far the next group is. We know how far a lot of the universe is. Well, at least a rough estimate.
Sure it is, because it is the same concept. In both cases, the group does not possess the ability to go that far.
We know how far the next group is. We know how far a lot of the universe is. Well, at least a rough estimate.
Sure it is, because it is the same concept. In both cases, the group does not possess the ability to go that far.
In your own assumption maybe
"Welcome to Catalyst 2 point 0. I am the intelligence charged with overseeing the cycle of galaxy designation M31. Since the destruction of installation MW, more thorough security measures have been approved. No longer will intelligences be allowed to interface with potential terrorists. All suspected insurgents will be dealt with with the utmost prejudice. As you are hearing this voice, you have been determined as a threat to the galactic imperative. Your ephemeral ideals will not be considered, and your biological components will be reduced to carbon. Farewell." - Andromeda Catalyst
That's more or less how I imagined a galactic overseer to be before I played ME3. The game didn't scratch that particular itch.
I was exaggerating the every part, but if the Reapers supposedly does harvest Andromeda what stops them from doing other galaxies too?
Well, why not if the logic is that they must try to preserve all life from synthetics?
I'm perfectly ok with Reapers either not caring about what happens in another galaxy, or simply never considered it. Even if they did, I imagine they look at said galaxy, and go "There's no point, since said galaxy is filled with primitives, who haven't even made AI's yet for us to stop." You gotta remember, they only harvest when a species has reached their peak, and is at risk of being wiped out by synthetic life. The primitive races they leave alone. They don't harvest unless they have to. And by the time said race did make AIs or killer synthetics, the resources spent to get a invasion fleet there to win the fight would be too high. And if you lost, then you ruined your element of surprise, they have your tech to study, and tada, you're screwed the next time you show up. Heck, maybe the Remnants kicked their asses when they did show up.
One thing is for sure. Reapers don't have worm hole tech. If they did, ME1's plan wouldn't be needed. Same with Arrival.
One thing is for sure. Reapers don't have worm hole tech. If they did, ME1's plan wouldn't be needed. Same with Arrival.
Or if their core consciousness was on the Citadel already... oops.
You're giving them way too much credit. They aren't either omnipotent nor omniscient. If it was the case, they could have stopped Shepard anytime on Earth at the beginning of ME3 already. Blockading a planet is way easier than an entire galaxy. Yet,the Normandy and other ships still escaped.
Nowhere in the codex is it said they can do anything and everything you believe they can/want to do, or they wouldn't have needed some random organic to make a decision for them. Besides, saying they developed intergalactic travel for us to discover is like saying: Well, we made you develop in the MW along the path we desired, then at some point we decide to wipe you out, but we leave you a convenient backdoor just for **** and giggles, so we can continue this silly game of cat and mouse elsewhere. That inefficient to the fullest, and I wasn't aware machines developed sadistic personalities, that's more an organic thing. Projecting your own values and beliefs on such a different kind of being does not work.
I never said they developed intergalactic travel for us to discover. I only said that it would be strange if they had given organics the means to travel between galaxies in the first place. I would never assume the Reapers to be sadistic. The only way you could get that from my post is if you actually did some projecting. We are just speculating anyways, and we're all making a lot of assertions.
How exactly would they stop something moving at thousands of times the speed of light?
How would they even detect it?
With current (ME3) technology FTL travel is very demanding. Element zero FTL drives accumulate a static electrical charge when a vessel has been in FTL flight for some time. This charge steadily increases with the amount of time a vessel spends in FTL. Eventually, it must be discharged. There are no places to discharge this energy in the dark space between galaxies. The Reapers knew this of course, that intergalactic travel was not possible for organic civilizations.
I never said they developed intergalactic travel for us to discover. I only said that it would be strange if they had given organics the means to travel between galaxies in the first place. I would never assume the Reapers to be sadistic. The only way you could get that from my post is if you actually did some projecting. We are just speculating anyways, and we're all making a lot of assertions.
With current (ME3) technology FTL travel is very demanding. Element zero FTL drives accumulate a static electrical charge when a vessel has been in FTL flight for some time. This charge steadily increases with the amount of time a vessel spends in FTL. Eventually, it must be discharged. There are no places to discharge this energy in the dark space between galaxies. The Reapers knew this of course, that intergalactic travel was not possible for organic civilizations.
Sorry, I was reacting to several of the comments (some speculating Reapers created the tech to travel to other galaxies via wormholes, or intergalactic mass relays, and we'd discover that) at the same time. I shouldn't do that, especially when quoting. Still, you give them too much credit, they weren't even able to stop the Normandy from escaping Earth, or whatever system the ship was in when abusing probes. I'd think blockading a planet is infinitely easier than blockading a whole galaxy while waging war in different parts of said galaxy.
There actually are places. Outer space isn't that empty.
Sorry, I was reacting to several of the comments (some speculating Reapers created the tech to travel to other galaxies via wormholes, or intergalactic mass relays, and we'd discover that) at the same time. I shouldn't do that, especially when quoting. Still, you give them too much credit, they weren't even able to stop the Normandy from escaping Earth, or whatever system the ship was in when abusing probes. I'd think blockading a planet is infinitely easier than blockading a whole galaxy while waging war in different parts of said galaxy.
There actually are places. Outer space isn't that empty.
It is between galaxies, is it not?
In your own assumption maybe
Of course it is an assumption. That's how hypotheses work.
It is between galaxies, is it not?
Galaxies eject matter, it doesn't just disappear, it must go somewhere. That we cannot detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hell, so far we only have evidence there actually are exoplanets because they were 'highlighted' by their sun, and it's been a relatively recent discovery.
Runaway planets: http://www.csmonitor...t-insane-speeds
Of course, I don't know if a ship could discharge on such planets, those are travelling near light-speed after all, but intergalactic space isn't completely empty.
Galaxies eject matter, it doesn't just disappear, it must go somewhere. That we cannot detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hell, so far we only have evidence there actually are exoplanets because they were 'highlighted' by their sun, and it's been a relatively recent discovery.
Runaway planets: http://www.csmonitor...t-insane-speeds
Of course, I don't know if a ship could discharge on such planets, those are travelling near light-speed after all, but intergalactic space isn't completely empty.
You'd have to find one of those every two or three days to be able to discharge often enough.
Galaxies eject matter, it doesn't just disappear, it must go somewhere. That we cannot detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hell, so far we only have evidence there actually are exoplanets because they were 'highlighted' by their sun, and it's been a relatively recent discovery.
Runaway planets: http://www.csmonitor...t-insane-speeds
Of course, I don't know if a ship could discharge on such planets, those are travelling near light-speed after all, but intergalactic space isn't completely empty.
So you expect them to locate and be able to discharge on a rare object moving that fast? I don't think so. Thanks for the neat article though.
So you expect them to locate and be able to discharge on a rare object moving that fast? I don't think so. Thanks for the neat article though.
Those were just an example of what could be found in the intergalactic space. For all we know, they might even go the very long scenic route and travel sub light-speed. My point is it isn't less far-fetched than organics suddenly and very conveniently discovering intergalactic mass relays or wormholes. The Crucible and wormholes/super mass relay. Man, these Reapers are slobs. Reapers have been around for millions of years. They had the tech for synthesis lying around for quite some time and had obviously already come to the conclusion that RGB was inevitable. These supposedly autonomous but hell-bent on carrying their programming synthetic beings couldn't decide on their own to implement synthesis or control (the solutions that would solve their problem once and for all)? They couldn't convince ones measly organic to make the big jump for them, or even just pick one and toss him/her in the big beam? No they had to do things the hard way and wage war all over the galaxy, losing some of their brethren in the process. Not the most logical and efficient way to do things, if you ask me. And then, you expect me to believe they'd possess intergalactic travel, seize control of other galaxies, leave, however unintentionally, that tech lying around for us to be able to escape and blockade the entire galaxy to prevent us from escaping by more 'conventional' means? No matter that the Normandy has proven several times being able to go around undetected.
At some point we'll all be forced to suspend disbelief since any explanation BW will feed us will feel contrived in some way or another. In the end, it will just boil down to what we're ready to swallow. I might be wrong and your scenario might be the one prevailing, but I really hope not. As far as I'm concerned, let the Reapers burn to ashes once and for all. The Ending and the explanation of their motivations was so stupid and contradictory, I don't even want to lay eyes on these idiots ever again, even as a far off possibility. I'm pretty sure EDI considered them an embarrassment as far as AI are concerned.
They had the tech for synthesis lying around for quite some time and had obviously already come to the conclusion that RGB was inevitable. These supposedly autonomous but hell-bent on carrying their programming synthetic beings couldn't decide on their own to implement synthesis or control (the solutions that would solve their problem once and for all)? They couldn't convince ones measly organic to make the big jump for them, or even just pick one and toss him/her in the big beam?
The Catalyst actually explains that they have tried solutions similar to Synthesis in the past, but they have always failed because that cycle was not ready. However our cycle, since we have superspecialawesome humans, is.
The Catalyst actually explains that they have tried solutions similar to Synthesis in the past, but they have always failed because that cycle was not ready. However our cycle, since we have superspecialawesome humans, is.
That just goes to emphatize how ridiculous that whole thing is. Deus ex after deus ex and deus ex. Stop with that. It never was a good plot trick, even in Antiquity. Actually, I'd be more in favor of the long, sub light-speed journey, whether with generation ships or stasis sleep. There's the problem of the energy required for this, but the energy problem is there with wormhole theory and the super mass relay theory as well.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not totally against the wormhole theory either, as long as it's not ancient tech conveniently rediscovered
I'm perfectly ok with Reapers either not caring about what happens in another galaxy, or simply never considered it. Even if they did, I imagine they look at said galaxy, and go "There's no point, since said galaxy is filled with primitives, who haven't even made AI's yet for us to stop." You gotta remember, they only harvest when a species has reached their peak, and is at risk of being wiped out by synthetic life. The primitive races they leave alone. They don't harvest unless they have to. And by the time said race did make AIs or killer synthetics, the resources spent to get a invasion fleet there to win the fight would be too high. And if you lost, then you ruined your element of surprise, they have your tech to study, and tada, you're screwed the next time you show up. Heck, maybe the Remnants kicked their asses when they did show up.
One thing is for sure. Reapers don't have worm hole tech. If they did, ME1's plan wouldn't be needed. Same with Arrival.
Yes, there could be a number of reasons the Reapers left Andromeda alone.
It's also possible it wasn't part of their programming - if the Leviathan programmed them to only protect the like in the Milky Way Galaxy, that alone would stop them from going to Andromeda. And another possible reason they didn't go to Andromeda is resource maximization - obviously their goal was to protect all life, and since the cycles did not come to an end before ME3 (or the cycle after that, if you choose to Refuse), they might've decided to take it one galaxy at the time to maximize their efficiency.
So that doesn't bother me all that much... although I must admit I'm curious (both why Reapers ultimately left it alone (or did they?) and how we get there).
With current (ME3) technology FTL travel is very demanding. Element zero FTL drives accumulate a static electrical charge when a vessel has been in FTL flight for some time. This charge steadily increases with the amount of time a vessel spends in FTL. Eventually, it must be discharged. There are no places to discharge this energy in the dark space between galaxies. The Reapers knew this of course, that intergalactic travel was not possible for organic civilizations.
Yes, we've been discussing this issue for more than a year now 
You're wrong to state that intergalactic travel is not possible for organic civilisations, though. Reaper technology does not suffer the same technological limitations, which means the current civilisations could achieve "unlimited" FTL travel through a number of means:
1. Independently inventing the same technology, either truly coincidentally (which could looked contrived) or because the Reapers are proof that it is possible. There are many examples throughout human history of what's called technological diffusion, whereby the concept of something - but not its specifics - spreads to new areas and provides inspiration for an independently new invention. Even if the civilisations of this cycle haven't solved the FTL issue, there's zero evidence that this is true for earlier cycles. Technology isn't magic, and if the Reapers can do something it must be possible for others as well.
2. Reverse-engineering actual Reaper engines, either through research on the remains of Sovereign or other Reaper wrecks discovered at some point in galactic history. If we wanted to push the development of unlimited FTL travel back a few years, it could be achieved by either the batarians experimenting on the Leviathan of Dis, or Cerberus' research on the 'dead' Reaper in ME2.
3. Jerry-rigging a discharge system that would survive a centuries-long journey. The game's lore, interestingly enough, never actually says how often drives need to be discharged, nor how much energy is created. The codex say that space stations have facilities for ships to discharge into, which implies that a planet isn't necessary. I've suggested before that all a ship would need to do is discharge the electricity into specialised areas or materials, which are then dumped into space. Build enough of them around a ship to last for the journey (and remember, the time between discharges hasn't been established yet) and you've got a workable if inelegant way for the ship to survive an FTL trip to Andromeda.
edit: nvm, the codex does say that the time between drive discharges is 50 hours.
I'm just tired of the whole: MW organics can't come up with new tech by themselves. Their tech necesseraly only comes from Reapers, alien or even more ancient civilizations that Reapers would have somehow missed all this time and suddenly pop up just when we need it. We've been riding this particular pony for so long my b*** hurts like you wouldn't believe. That pony's even in the process of breaking its own back as it is.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not totally against the wormhole theory either, as long as it's not ancient tech conveniently rediscovered
How bad is it that "Wormholes!" is one of the more plausible scenerios for getting to the Andromeda setting? 
How bad is it that "Wormholes!" is one of the more plausible scenerios for getting to the Andromeda setting?
As you said, one of the more plausible scenarios. I still consider the Ark theory as one of them. 
And as long as no ancient intergalactic alien or Reapers are involved, I guess I can live with it
edit: nvm, the codex does say that the time between drive discharges is 50 hours.
So with the limit being 50 hours, that means that with our drives they would need to discharge 101,520 times.
Actually, I'd be more in favor of the long, sub light-speed journey, whether with generation ships or stasis sleep. There's the problem of the energy required for this, but the energy problem is there with wormhole theory and the super mass relay theory as well.
The problem with intergalactic travel is that even at the speed of light, you would've to use millions of years to reach your destination. A journey to Andromeda at the speed of light would take approximately 2.5 million years.
Yes, we've been discussing this issue for more than a year now
You're wrong to state that intergalactic travel is not possible for organic civilisations, though. Reaper technology does not suffer the same technological limitations, which means the current civilisations could achieve "unlimited" FTL travel through a number of means:
1. Independently inventing the same technology, either truly coincidentally (which could looked contrived) or because the Reapers are proof that it is possible. There are many examples throughout human history of what's called technological diffusion, whereby the concept of something - but not its specifics - spreads to new areas and provides inspiration for an independently new invention. Even if the civilisations of this cycle haven't solved the FTL issue, there's zero evidence that this is true for earlier cycles. Technology isn't magic, and if the Reapers can do something it must be possible for others as well.
2. Reverse-engineering actual Reaper engines, either through research on the remains of Sovereign or other Reaper wrecks discovered at some point in galactic history. If we wanted to push the development of unlimited FTL travel back a few years, it could be achieved by either the batarians experimenting on the Leviathan of Dis, or Cerberus' research on the 'dead' Reaper in ME2.
3. Jerry-rigging a discharge system that would survive a centuries-long journey. The game's lore, interestingly enough, never actually says how often drives need to be discharged, nor how much energy is created. The codex say that space stations have facilities for ships to discharge into, which implies that a planet isn't necessary. I've suggested before that all a ship would need to do is discharge the electricity into specialised areas or materials, which are then dumped into space. Build enough of them around a ship to last for the journey (and remember, the time between discharges hasn't been established yet) and you've got a workable if inelegant way for the ship to survive an FTL trip to Andromeda.
Yes, maybe other cycles came close to a solution. I guess the Prothean achievement of constructing a miniature Mass Relay is proof that organic civilizations could potentially manage to imitate - and apply advanced Reaper technology. We also know that organic civilizations had access to old Reaper technology, as you already mentioned, so it could be possible I guess.
The Turians used eleven months to make a scaled-down version of Sovereign's main weapon. How long do we think it would take for them to imitate the more advanced aspects of Reaper technology?
The problem with intergalactic travel is that even at the speed of light, you would've to use millions of years to reach your destination. A journey to Andromeda at the speed of light would take approximately 2.5 million years.
Only 2.5 million years? That's less than I thought. Good. Uh wait, Isn't Andromeda scheduled to hit the Milky Way in 4 billion years? I know numbers and I aren't the best of friends, but... wut? Probably has to do with the definition of light years as opposed to conventional years or something, but I'm too tired to look it up right now, I will check it out tomorrow.
Edit: Urgh, better after some sleep. Of course Andromeda isn't travelling at light speed... Anyway, the later posters are mentioning time dilation for sub-light speed. I'm afraid this is getting too complicated for me. But even then and assuming we'd have enough energy for such a travel (again, using a wormhole would use such a massive amount of negative energy that I don't see how one is less far-fetched than the other), 2.5 million of years don't matter while sleeping in cryo-stasis. The only real problem would be if the AI and in charge of maintaining the Ark is unshackled, has any concept of boredom and becomes crazy. Hey, we could actually use Keepers, they are good at that.
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