583 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

Well, they could either have an active crew at all times, through volunteers or taking shift, or program the navigation computer to leave FTL every so often to radiate out the heat through thermal plates since they are out in dark space. It would make journey talk longer, but we're already assuming some sort of cryo-sleep, unless there are either several or one massive Quarian style liveship that everyone lives on for generations.

 

 

 Reapers have been around for millions of years. They had the tech for synthesis lying around for quite some time and had obviously already come to the conclusion that RGB was inevitable. These supposedly autonomous but hell-bent on carrying their programming synthetic beings couldn't decide on their own to implement synthesis or control (the solutions that would solve their problem once and for all)? They couldn't convince ones measly organic to make the big jump for them, or even just pick one and toss him/her in the big beam? No they had to do things the hard way and wage war all over the galaxy, losing some of their brethren in the process. Not the most logical and efficient way to do things, if you ask me. And then, you expect me to believe they'd possess intergalactic travel, seize control of other galaxies, leave, however unintentionally, that tech lying around for us to be able to escape and blockade the entire galaxy to prevent us from escaping by more 'conventional' means? No matter that the Normandy has proven several times being able to go around undetected.

 

 I'm pretty sure EDI considered them an embarrassment as far as AI are concerned. 

 

This is just one of the ways the Catalyst was stupid. For all his talk about being more than an AI, he's much more like a VI. He doesn't learn or adapt. He is more bound by his programming than EDI, who asks Shepard about rewriting her programming. The fact that an AI could do this in an AI-centric story is a big deal.

 

The Catalyst actually explains that they have tried solutions similar to Synthesis in the past, but they have always failed because that cycle was not ready. However our cycle, since we have superspecialawesome humans, is. 

 

AKA: I've already ripped off The Matrix so I'll do it one last time.

 

1. Independently inventing the same technology, either truly coincidentally (which could looked contrived) or because the Reapers are proof that it is possible. There are many examples throughout human history of what's called technological diffusion, whereby the concept of something - but not its specifics - spreads to new areas and provides inspiration for an independently new invention. Even if the civilisations of this cycle haven't solved the FTL issue, there's zero evidence that this is true for earlier cycles. Technology isn't magic, and if the Reapers can do something it must be possible for others as well.

 

2. Reverse-engineering actual Reaper engines, either through research on the remains of Sovereign or other Reaper wrecks discovered at some point in galactic history. If we wanted to push the development of unlimited FTL travel back a few years, it could be achieved by either the batarians experimenting on the Leviathan of Dis, or Cerberus' research on the 'dead' Reaper in ME2. 

 

3. Jerry-rigging a discharge system that would survive a centuries-long journey. The game's lore, interestingly enough, never actually says how often drives need to be discharged, nor how much energy is created. The codex say that space stations have facilities for ships to discharge into, which implies that a planet isn't necessary. I've suggested before that all a ship would need to do is discharge the electricity into specialised areas or materials, which are then dumped into space. Build enough of them around a ship to last for the journey (and remember, the time between discharges hasn't been established yet) and you've got a workable if inelegant way for the ship to survive an FTL trip to Andromeda. 

 

1) My problem with this one is that their tech is already based on Reaper technology. Since the Reapers just do it better, I don't see what they learn by simply seeing the Reapers do it.

 

2) This one depends on what happened at the end of ME3.

 

3) This is possible. I give an idea above.

[dfjdejulio]

The problem with intergalactic travel is that even at the speed of light, you would've to use millions of years to reach your destination. A journey to Andromeda at the speed of light would take approximately 2.5 million years.

 

I'm not 100% sure that has to be a problem here, given the combination of time dilation and stasis chambers.

[Natureguy85]

I'm not 100% sure that has to be a problem here, given the combination of time dilation and stasis chambers.

 

Ah, good point. You're the first I've noticed to bring that up. Damn, now I have to crack open my physics notes (or google) to remember how much of a difference that makes.

[dfjdejulio]

Ah, good point. You're the first I've noticed to bring that up. Damn, now I have to crack open my physics notes (or google) to remember how much of a difference that makes.

 

This might help: http://www.wolframal...dilation at .9c

[Natureguy85]

This might help: http://www.wolframal...dilation at .9c

 

Yeah but I don't know how to account for physics breaking technology

 

The equation would make you divide by the square root of a negative number because v > c.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not 100% sure that has to be a problem here, given the combination of time dilation and stasis chambers.

In the Codex it is explained that time dilation does not occur while using Mass Effect fields to travel. 

[Natureguy85]

In the Codex it is explained that time dilation does not occur while using Mass Effect fields to travel. 

 

So it does. Thanks for that catch.

[dfjdejulio]

Yeah but I don't know how to account for physics breaking technology

 

The equation would make you divide by the square root of a negative number because v > c.

 

Oh, this only matters if we're not using FTL.  If you go read all the codex entries, you'll see that they explicitly state that mass-effect based FTL avoids time dilation.  So I was talking about using conventional sublight (but close to light) speed combined with stasis chambers of the sort that kept Javik ready to fight for 50,000 years.

 

(But if they hadn't made that disclaimer, the conventional way of handling it is that time flows backwards if you exceed the speed of light -- the subject and the external viewer are not traveling through time in the same direction at that point.)

[ElitePinecone]

Edit: Urgh, better after some sleep. Of course Andromeda isn't travelling at light speed... Anyway, the later posters are mentioning time dilation for sub-light speed. I'm afraid this is getting too complicated for me. But even then and assuming we'd have enough energy for such a travel (again, using a wormhole would use such a massive amount of negative energy that I don't see how one is less far-fetched than the other), 2.5 million of years don't matter while sleeping in cryo-stasis. The only real problem would be if the AI and in charge of maintaining the Ark is unshackled, has any concept of boredom and becomes crazy. Hey, we could actually use Keepers, they are good at that.

 

A big benefit of Mass Effect's space magic-y FTL is that it has no relativistic effects. I don't exactly understand time dilation and relativity, but in practice it means that time passes differently for people travelling at close to the speed of light, compared to those people watching them. The effect is very small normally, but gets larger the faster one is travelling. 

 

If we did do a sublight journey to Andromeda, 2.5 million years for the people in the ship could be much more than that for the rest of the galaxy. Both would perceive time passing at the same speed, but the result would be that much more time would pass for the people left behind. Sublight travel is still affected by time dilation, whereas FTL using the mass effect is not.

 

Some hard sci-fi does engage with relativity quite well (e.g. soldiers not ageing much with each deployment, while their families grow old and die around them) but I think for the sake of story simplicity it's better to take ME's approach and just have travel without the time dilation. 

[Fade9wayz]

A big benefit of Mass Effect's space magic-y FTL is that it has no relativistic effects. I don't exactly understand time dilation and relativity, but in practice it means that time passes differently for people travelling at close to the speed of light, compared to those people watching them. The effect is very small normally, but gets larger the faster one is travelling. 

 

If we did do a sublight journey to Andromeda, 2.5 million years for the people in the ship could be much more than that for the rest of the galaxy. Both would perceive time passing at the same speed, but the result would be that much more time would pass for the people left behind. Sublight travel is still affected by time dilation, whereas FTL using the mass effect is not.

 

Some hard sci-fi does engage with relativity quite well (e.g. soldiers not ageing much with each deployment, while their families grow old and die around them) but I think for the sake of story simplicity it's better to take ME's approach and just have travel without the time dilation. 

Mmmh, I was suspecting that's how it goes, since that's what happens in The Forever War. I wasn't sure something else was happening to the travelers, making the journey slightly shorter for them since relativity is certainly not my specialty. In any case, this will be a long journey, and either we have a way of safely discharging into space, have better engines that don't require discharge, or we're taking the 2.5 million years flight with no stop. I do believe we aren't ever coming back to the Milky Way, at least not until Andromeda merges with TMW, and by then, organics of both galaxies will maybe have ascended Stargate style... So I'm perfectly okay with the long journey and time dilation. More than I ever will be a with freak (and too convenient) wormhole (unless we're taking Aria and her couch with us), or any theory involving some super Mass Relay or Galactic tourists.

 

EDIT: That is for intergalactic travel. Once inside Andromeda we can go back to happily using FTL again of course

[N7Jamaican]

Another theory

 

Before the asari discovered the Citadel, they sent a ship to Andromeda to explore that galaxy. They had a ship filled with young asari who can survive the trip at ftl speed and also there were a few matriarch along for the ride. They finally arrive in the galaxy. They find a planet that seems habitable and appears not to be dangerous.

 

Over time they discover a lot of stuff that helps with medicine, technology and whatever else. They built a few colonies. Over this time meet a new species and some how learned to communicate with each other. This species was very far ahead of the asari when it came to technology. They were able to develop wormholes. They shared the information with the asari.

 

The asari used it to get back to the Milky Way. Soon more asari were moving to Andromeda.

 

The asari discover the Citadel and the turians and salarians joined. The asari invited salarian scientists to join them  in Andromeda along with the turians.  Before the rachni wars, Krogan were invited to colonize in Andromeda. Even the volus made residence in the Andromdea galaxy. These species were living well besides having a few disagreements here and there that were quickly solved.

 

Along come humans. Shortly before the events of ME1, human scientists and engineers were taken to Andromeda. 

 

Once the reaper invasion started, the asari with help, started sending supplies and people representing different species to Andromeda. Shortly before the attack on Chronos, the wormhole was closed leaving behind no trace that it ever existed. 

 

Hm, I like it, but if I was playing ME:A and that was confirmed, I'd be disappointed.  Simply because I don't find it believable..  Didn't the Asari discover the citadel like 1000+ years before the events when Humans discovered prothean tech on Mars?

Doubt they'd have the technology to do such a thing waaay back then.

[Natureguy85]

Another theory

 

Before the asari discovered the Citadel, they sent a ship to Andromeda to explore that galaxy. They had a ship filled with young asari who can survive the trip at ftl speed and also there were a few matriarch along for the ride. They finally arrive in the galaxy. They find a planet that seems habitable and appears not to be dangerous.

 

Over time they discover a lot of stuff that helps with medicine, technology and whatever else. They built a few colonies. Over this time meet a new species and some how learned to communicate with each other. This species was very far ahead of the asari when it came to technology. They were able to develop wormholes. They shared the information with the asari.

 

The asari used it to get back to the Milky Way. Soon more asari were moving to Andromeda.

 

The asari discover the Citadel and the turians and salarians joined. The asari invited salarian scientists to join them  in Andromeda along with the turians.  Before the rachni wars, Krogan were invited to colonize in Andromeda. Even the volus made residence in the Andromdea galaxy. These species were living well besides having a few disagreements here and there that were quickly solved.

 

Along come humans. Shortly before the events of ME1, human scientists and engineers were taken to Andromeda. 

 

Once the reaper invasion started, the asari with help, started sending supplies and people representing different species to Andromeda. Shortly before the attack on Chronos, the wormhole was closed leaving behind no trace that it ever existed. 

 

 

Hm, I like it, but if I was playing ME:A and that was confirmed, I'd be disappointed.  Simply because I don't find it believable..  Didn't the Asari discover the citadel like 1000+ years before the events when Humans discovered prothean tech on Mars?

Doubt they'd have the technology to do such a thing waaay back then.

 

I like it for the most part except for them simply running into Andromeda's Proteans. My problem with using it now is that we should have known about it if humans went. If it was just the Asari, I might buy it after we found the Prothean Beacon on Thessia.I just can't stomach another "I found the Crucible in this database that was the most important Human discovery ever and would have been scoured for every bit of daa long ago."

 

 

 

So I'm perfectly okay with the long journey and time dilation. More than I ever will be a with freak (and too convenient) wormhole (unless we're taking Aria and her couch with us), or any theory involving some super Mass Relay or Galactic tourists.

 

Yes, Aria, a character with an awesome build up that went absolutely nowhere in a game where characters were the only things going for it.

[Iakus]

Hm, I like it, but if I was playing ME:A and that was confirmed, I'd be disappointed.  Simply because I don't find it believable..  Didn't the Asari discover the citadel like 1000+ years before the events when Humans discovered prothean tech on Mars?

Doubt they'd have the technology to do such a thing waaay back then.

More like 2000+

[Kabooooom]

A big benefit of Mass Effect's space magic-y FTL is that it has no relativistic effects. I don't exactly understand time dilation and relativity, but in practice it means that time passes differently for people travelling at close to the speed of light, compared to those people watching them. The effect is very small normally, but gets larger the faster one is travelling.

If we did do a sublight journey to Andromeda, 2.5 million years for the people in the ship could be much more than that for the rest of the galaxy. Both would perceive time passing at the same speed, but the result would be that much more time would pass for the people left behind. Sublight travel is still affected by time dilation, whereas FTL using the mass effect is not.

Some hard sci-fi does engage with relativity quite well (e.g. soldiers not ageing much with each deployment, while their families grow old and die around them) but I think for the sake of story simplicity it's better to take ME's approach and just have travel without the time dilation.

I made a post earlier in this thread where I calculated using the equations of special relativity the exact time that the crew of the ark would perceive, if they did not use the mass effect for FTL but instead attempted a classic relativistic voyage. Depending on the speed you actually reach, you can make the journey in 50-200 years (at greater than 99.9999% the speed of light. The difference is if you add a few more 9's to it). My calculation account for accelerating for roughly 1.25 million light years towards Andromeda, and decelerating in reverse for 1.25 million light years away, in order to reach the destination at non-relativistic velocities. You can easily make the journey in a human lifetime if you do not decelerate, but continue past Andromeda at a relativistic velocity that high. So deceleration is necessary.

While a few centuries would pass for the crew, more than 2.5 million years would pass back in the Milky Way. One of the great ironies of relativistic travel is that someone in the future may design a starship that can reach the destination FASTER than you. Thus, you may arrive there to find that it is populated with familiar faces, utilizing tech far more advanced than when you left.

This, combined with the massive energy requirements, makes me hope Bioware doesn't go the relativistic route.

[Red Panda]

Mass effect fields are so powerful that you move really fast with super duper mass effect field technology. In teh MAss Effect Franchise future, Mass Effect fields can literally warp teh fabric of spaaaaaaaace time like a table cloth. It's like bunching up a table cloth, and being exactly where you want to be without actually moving by making spacee move to you and therefore being in the right spot where you want to be.

 

It can take as long as the writers want it to,

[Kabooooom]

Mass effect fields are so powerful that you move really fast with super duper mass effect field technology. In teh MAss Effect Franchise future, Mass Effect fields can literally warp teh fabric of spaaaaaaaace time like a table cloth. It's like bunching up a table cloth, and being exactly where you want to be without actually moving by making spacee move to you and therefore being in the right spot where you want to be.

It can take as long as the writers want it to,

Actually, a variation of the mass effect FTL drive does make sense in such a manner. We can use the mass effect to increase mass instead of decreasing mass, and if you increase mass enough, it will warp the fabric of space time.

In normal FTL travel, there are no effects on spacetime in this manner because mass is both decreased and the vessel travels a tiny, non-relativistic fraction of the new elevated speed of light within the bubble of the mass effect field surrounding the ship.

But, one could envision an alternative form of travel in which the mass effect is used to warp space time itself. Compressing space in front of the vessel and expanding space behind is, essentially, the basic concept of the Alcubierre FTL drive.

I have a hard time seeing how this would be preferable to the classic form of FTL travel in the mass effect universe though, as it is extraordinarily fast (the Reapers travel 11,000c) and you would presumably still build up static charge, thus negating the entire point of finding an alternative method of FTL for long distance travel.

[Red Panda]

Actually, a variation of the mass effect FTL drive does make sense in such a manner. We can use the mass effect to increase mass instead of decreasing mass, and if you increase mass enough, it will warp the fabric of space time.

In normal FTL travel, there are no effects on spacetime in this manner because mass is both decreased and the vessel travels a tiny, non-relativistic fraction of the new elevated speed of light within the bubble of the mass effect field surrounding the ship.

But, one could envision an alternative form of travel in which the mass effect is used to warp space time itself. Compressing space in front of the vessel and expanding space behind is, essentially, the basic concept of the Alcubierre FTL drive.

I have a hard time seeing how this would be preferable to the classic form of FTL travel in the mass effect universe though, as it is extraordinarily fast (the Reapers travel 11,000c) and you would presumably still build up static charge, thus negating the entire point of finding an alternative method of FTL for long distance travel.

 

I really don't see why Mass Effect tech can't be improved and used that way. I also don't see why they couldn't have found a way to dissipate the static charge that builds up.

 

Unless we have means of shooting static charge at new indigenous life after storing it for all the whole trip. Yippee

[Kabooooom]

I really don't see why Mass Effect tech can't be improved and used that way. I also don't see why they couldn't have found a way to dissipate the static charge that builds up.

Unless we have means of shooting static charge at new indigenous life after storing it for all the whole trip. Yippee

Also, it is worth noting that what I have described based on what you proposed is basically exactly how the Tantalus drive core of the Normandy works - it creates mass "in front of the ship, which the Normandy falls into, thus eliminating the need for engine emissions". What you are proposing is basically an extreme version of this, compressing space time so much that the linear distance between two destinations is greatly shortened.

[DAO MAdhatter]

Spaaaaaaaace Magic

[o Ventus]

Who cares? I'm sure the writers will come up with something that isn't too silly.

I do, as does the OP since he made this thread in the first place. I know a healthy number of other people care too. It's actually a rather important bit of story information, so brushing it off like some unimportant bit of trivia is disingenuous. It literally lays out the premise of the setting. When you talk to someone about ME and they ask how the people travel around the galaxy, I don't think you would say "it doesn't matter, it's not important" when it's the central tenet of the series and the foundation of the title.

[Kabooooom]

I do, as does the OP since he made this thread in the first place. I know a healthy number of other people care too. It's actually a rather important bit of story information, so brushing it off like some unimportant bit of trivia is disingenuous. It literally lays out the premise of the setting. When you talk to someone about ME and they ask how the people travel around the galaxy, I don't think you would say "it doesn't matter, it's not important" when it's the central tenet of the series and the foundation of the title.

I agree 100%. Bioware doesn't have a good track record about hand waving this sort of stuff, now do they? Considerable attention should be paid to this.

[In Exile]

I do, as does the OP since he made this thread in the first place. I know a healthy number of other people care too. It's actually a rather important bit of story information, so brushing it off like some unimportant bit of trivia is disingenuous. It literally lays out the premise of the setting. When you talk to someone about ME and they ask how the people travel around the galaxy, I don't think you would say "it doesn't matter, it's not important" when it's the central tenet of the series and the foundation of the title.

 

It's going to be as silly as the nonsense that a neutron has magic space bending powers. You can't ask for anything coherent on the science side in Mass Effect. It's just barking up the wrong mass relay. 

[Catastrophy]

I do, as does the OP since he made this thread in the first place. I know a healthy number of other people care too. It's actually a rather important bit of story information, so brushing it off like some unimportant bit of trivia is disingenuous. It literally lays out the premise of the setting. When you talk to someone about ME and they ask how the people travel around the galaxy, I don't think you would say "it doesn't matter, it's not important" when it's the central tenet of the series and the foundation of the title.

 

It's a pointless thing to do - it's not like you wrote the story and have trouble finding a good way to continue it. This is fiction after all, not science. the more you care the more ridiculous it'll get. A certain level of Ignorance will net you a lot more entertainment value.

[o Ventus]

It's a pointless thing to do - it's not like you wrote the story and have trouble finding a good way to continue it. This is fiction after all, not science. the more you care the more ridiculous it'll get. A certain level of Ignorance will net you a lot more entertainment value.

Science fiction, so yes it is science. And any good fiction has a set of internal rules to follow so it at least pretends to maintain some semblance of realism. Only here, none of the established lore supports and kind of intergalactic travel, so this premise is shaky at best from the start.

 

"Certain level of ignorance". Yeah, see, that's the thing. I'm not an idiot, so expecting me to just shrug off something quite major like this and effectively telling me to NOT pay attention is outright retarded. "It's a game from a company known for it's story driven RPG's, so you should just ignore this important bit of story information, you'll be happier." 

[Catastrophy]

Science fiction, so yes it is science. And any good fiction has a set of internal rules to follow so it at least pretends to maintain some semblance of realism. Only here, none of the established lore supports and kind of intergalactic travel, so this premise is shaky at best from the start.

 

"Certain level of ignorance". Yeah, see, that's the thing. I'm not an idiot, so expecting me to just shrug off something quite major like this and effectively telling me to NOT pay attention is outright retarded. "It's a game from a company known for it's story driven RPG's, so you should just ignore this important bit of story information, you'll be happier." 

Well, I can't force you to bliss so go on and worry.