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So... how are we getting to Andromeda again?


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#151
Hanako Ikezawa

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@Hanako Ikezawa:   Totally in agreement.

 

The relay/citadel mix is the perfect way to police every galaxy - so I think it would make perfect sense for the Andromeda Galaxy to already have a Relay network set up and ready to be utilized. 

 

New civilizations could spread like wildfire right under their radar.  I believe this is going to be a huge thing for ME4... finding homeworlds for the surviving races. 

Exactly. As Leviathan said, the Citadel and Mass Relays maximized the Reapers' efficiency of their harvests. Since the Reapers operate on logic, they would see no reason to deviate from that concept and implement it in other galaxies. 

 

Well, I believe the leak did mention something like the krogan squadmate Drack's loyalty/personal mission involved finding a place for the Krogan colony ship to settle, so you may be right with that idea. Not to mention Bioware showed the A.R.K.C.O.N. Pathfinder Initiative image, which also supports your hypothesis since that fits the definition of those terms. And during the mission to locate suitable new homeworlds we get drawn into the main plot of the game. 

 

I have to admit, I didn't like the announcement of going to Andromeda and some of the insinuations it could mean but if it goes like how we've discussed I can't deny that I'm looking more forward to it now. 



#152
shepskisaac

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It's all possible, but I really hope it doesn't happen. I'm tired of Reapers, having them again even if just as a lingering threat feels like unnecessary baggage to bring over to new era of the universe.


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#153
Yggdrasil

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One of the videos breaking down the info we know so far points out that a wormhole-like animation is used more than once.  I'm guessing that the races discovery some kind of wormhole technology and use it to implement a contingency plan of sending colonists to Andromeda.  I doubt we'll see a relay network there.



#154
Medhia_Nox

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@Yggdasil:  Then navigating the Andromeda galaxy is going to be impossible with the current ME tech.  Finding and getting to even one planet capable of supporting life would be largely laughable.

 

@shepskisaac:  that's how I feel about the Asari, and yet I'm SURE they're going to be along.



#155
shepskisaac

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@shepskisaac:  that's how I feel about the Asari, and yet I'm SURE they're going to be along.

Lol, good one! :lol: Well, gotta make some sacrifices. I'm not big fan of Asari either but I would rather have them then more of "This hurts you! We are uncomprehensible!"


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#156
Yggdrasil

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That's why I'm thinking they find or come up with something new.  You could make the same point about finding habitable planets in the original series.  Not every colonized planet was in a system with a relay.  This is all supposition anyway.  I think I'll just echo someone's previous sentiment:  We've already had the Reaper story, an entire trilogy devoted to it entirely.  I want them to cover new ground and not just do a Reaper retread in another galaxy.  The sense I get from interviews, etc. is that the devs are ready to tell some new stories, as well.


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#157
Da_Noobinator

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From what we actually see in the story content of the ME series, little is actually related to the codex entries. It's there more for those interested in the hard science fiction aspect.

For example, I distinctly remember reading that when starship battles and dogfights take place, the individual warships are dozens, if not hundred of kilometres apart from each other. Even dogfights between small fighters have the participants long out of eyesight of each other - sight is all based on the ships' sensors.

Now, in how many cutscenes involving starship battles do we actually see this hold true? That's right, precisely zero. From the Geth assault on the Citadel in ME1 to the Victory Fleet assaulting Reaper-occupied Earth in ME3, cutscenes never exemplified this codex entry.

Point being that I'm fairly certain codex entries aren't really all that important (although they are extremely enjoyable to further immersion in the game).



#158
In Exile

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From what we actually see in the story content of the ME series, little is actually related to the codex entries. It's there more for those interested in the hard science fiction aspect.

For example, I distinctly remember reading that when starship battles and dogfights take place, the individual warships are dozens, if not hundred of kilometres apart from each other. Even dogfights between small fighters have the participants long out of eyesight of each other - sight is all based on the ships' sensors.

Now, in how many cutscenes involving starship battles do we actually see this hold true? That's right, precisely zero. From the Geth assault on the Citadel in ME1 to the Victory Fleet assaulting Reaper-occupied Earth in ME3, cutscenes never exemplified this codex entry.

Point being that I'm fairly certain codex entries aren't really all that important (although they are extremely enjoyable to further immersion in the game).

 

I'm not sure I'd use "codex" and "hard science" in any kind of sentence together, because ME was a straight up joke from a science perspective. I mean, it was only an embarrassment when it came to physics, but it was just pure incoherent nonsense when it came to biology or chemistry. 


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#159
Han Shot First

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As long as it is idle fun speculation I see no harm in it.. after all there doesn't seem to much else to do at the moment.

 

...and won't be for another six months!


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#160
AresKeith

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Looking back, maybe this is the Ark. A little Citadel style place station.

 

468px-ME_4_4.jpg

 

Then that's a nice Ark to live on :P



#161
chris2365

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Double post. 



#162
chris2365

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A response from the Twitter thread on the possiblity of using wormholes to cross galaxies:

 

It's certainly an idea with possibilities.  THough a few things I should point out:

 

First, I wouldn't use Haestrom as a base.  The quarian/geth war heating up, and Haestrom being in geth territory would make it too dangerous.  I would think Noveria would be better.  Parassini mentions people are showing an interest in dark energy in ME2 and it would help justify Cerberus interest in the place in ME3.  In addition, Noveria has a reputation of being a place where off the books experiements are run (see rachni)

 

Noveria also opens up the possibility that these things anomalies were being investigated before the Reaper invasion.  Which would more neatly answer the question of "Why are we sinking resources into a purely theoretical project while we're fighting for our survival?" question.  It's already been going on for years.  But now there's a time crunch.

 

Some sound ideas here! Like I said, I personally don't care whether they justify how we got to the Andromeda galaxy or not, I just want Mass Effect. But it's fun to speculate, come up with some logical reasons, talk about Mass Effect stuff in general   :)

 

It still doesn't answer the question of how can we move so many people in secret, or why the Reapers never bothered with this, 

 

Who knows really. It could be that they kidnapped people secretly on Noveria or across the galaxy. And like I said earlier, if the galaxy can somehow keep a project like the Crucible, which involves massive manpower, communications, supplies, etc. hidden and protected for so long, I think we can call it more than feasible for a private corporation operating under utmost secrecy on Noveria to do the same, keeping them hidden from the Reapers.

 

Iakus, one thing I've noticed is that you really enjoy having as much of an airtight seal around lore, continuity and logic as possible. I have to admit I'm often like this too. I study Sciences and everyone often complains that I over-analyze things and don't just think of the simple way out and appreciate the whole thing as it is. I let little details bug me. It's good that we think in this way for some aspects of life, but do you think this mentality might be inhibiting your enjoyment of games in general, or is it something more particular in Bioware/Mass Effect that has made you been pointing out many faults in the games?

 

When it comes to entertainment, here is what I think: games, movies, books, etc. all require a certain suspension of disbelief in order to work. Some stuff just has to go conveniently in favor of the main character in order for there to be an interesting story, or even a story at all.

 

Take the Crucible for example. Was it convenient that it suddenly showed up in ME3? Yes. Was it convenient that the Reapers, for all their supposed power, couldn't locate the Crucible and destroy it? Most likely.

 

That's in the same way stuff in ME1 and ME2 was convenient. Was it convenient that somehow, after all this time, and just when we needed it, we had a dead Reaper lying around that Cerberus had already investigated and happened to have the last piece we needed to go through the Omega 4 Relay? Yes. 

 

Was it convenient that the Reapers, and Sovereign in particular, had absolutely no back up plan for the cycle besides using signals on the Citadel as a Mass Relay? After the Protheans scrambled the signal, Sovereign was delayed by thousands of years so he could build up the fleet and find the right organic (a supposedly inferior form) to finish a job that he could not. Or why did Sovereign simply not shoot a laser at him while he was scaling the Citadel tower? Saren knew he was Shepard was probably coming coming. Warning Sovereign to keep a few sensors scanning for Shepard couldn't have been that much of a hassle. The station was sealed, nothing to rush the Saren or Sovereign.

 

These may not be the best examples, but I hope you see my point. Suspension of disbelief is necessary for a stories to be told. For heroes to overcome the odds, for legends to be born. I agree that Bioware should try and limit these as much as possible, but expecting perfection in terms of plot hole coverage is unrealistic. No game, book or movie is immune to them.

 

Although, maybe this all too place before the Reapers ever invaded.  An experiment gone awry.  A secret project to find a way to cross systems without a relay via wormholes. Something goes wrong, a bunch of ships maybe even a planetary base vanish and are presumed dead.  The whole project is covered up and abandoned.   The survivors find themselves in another galaxy and never hear about the Reapers?

 

A very interesting idea. That would keep the Reapers from finding about it. Though it does raise the question as to why the previous cycles like the Protheans, who were so much more advanced than we were, never discovered it and left plans and research as a last resort method for future cycles to escape the Reapers. Luck? What made wormhole research suddenly possible in our cycle? Unless every experiment with wormholes goes bad? Then why didn't each cycle leave successive plans and research on wormholes in the hope that the next cycle can build on it, like the Crucible?

 

This kind of train of thought is exactly the type I enjoy discussing and debating, but it isn't the kind I expect Bioware to address. This is the kind I talked about in my last block of paragraphs above. Fun to talk about, but nigh impossible to make full proof and keep a fun game, IMO.



#163
Da_Noobinator

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I'm not sure I'd use "codex" and "hard science" in any kind of sentence together, because ME was a straight up joke from a science perspective. I mean, it was only an embarrassment when it came to physics, but it was just pure incoherent nonsense when it came to biology or chemistry. 

Haha fair point, although my own point wasn't exactly about how amazingly accurate the codex was ;) Regardless of whether it's particularly educational or realistic, it does usually carry the potency to increase immersion - and I don't think anyone's kidding themselves into thinking it's anything more than scientific jargon.


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#164
Shermos

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We've already seen Sufficiently Advanced aliens.

 

Their drives don't seem to go more than twice as fast as current tech.

 

Can something better be designed eventually?  Sure.  but it would take a frakking long time given the galaxy has been developing along the Reapers' paths for thousands of years.  

 

This. And let's keep in mind that post Reaper War, the galaxy will be concentrating on reconnecting and rebuilding. Innovation and technological progress can be expected to be slowed during this period. So if the emigres leave before the end of the war, the method of travel is going to have to be a wormhole or some ancient technology the Remnants shot across perhaps. 
 


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#165
Drone223

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I don't know but its most likely going to involve hand waving, contrivances/conveniences and will be poorly implemented. I'm very skeptical that the explanation will be decent.


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#166
ElitePinecone

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Speaking of which, some thoughts on that. A lot of the proposals regarding the Ark Theory and the reasons why were in a new galaxy don't really mesh with that leak. Such a plot element would likely be mentioned for starters, since that is the reason why you are fleeing to Andromeda. Instead, its not exactly vague, but spelled out for you that the goal is to colonize, not to flee. 

 

Other things that jump out, what exactly is the Pathfinder rank here? Would the Alliance or the Council institute a new initiative that quickly to explore new worlds to get away from the Reapers  with such a name and rank. Would they have time to really "explain" to these pathfinders what their mission is? An untested explorer also implies you are new to the job, which can go either way, but does infer that the Pathfinder "job" is something that the council has done before. 

 

You also have other groups going too, which add to the colonial efforts put forth here. I remember a while back someone mentioned you only needed about 1,000 or so people to re-populate through a colony of any substantial size. But the way it reads through the leak indicates a massive colonial effort, so tens of thousands might be going at once.

 

Strike team missions also don't fit the bill of a fleeing force. It said in the leak you can hire mercs and divert resources to protect colonies. Not to mention you have bases that are set up as well, which imply military operations. 

 

To me, it reads more like a jump at populating another galaxy further in the future, instead of fleeing the galaxy concurrently during a crisis. This is not like a Battlestar Galactica type of thing, where our numbers and resources are limited to subsistence level, since resource management is also a part of the game, and a major part it seems. Instead it feels like Firefly only in a universe I like. 

 

I think the discrepancy can be explained by MEA happening several hundred years after the initial ark fled the Milky Way. 

 

If the ark environment is large enough to support an actual permanent population (which it might be, if it's this), small-scale colonisation and exploration efforts in the Helius cluster could occur for centuries before the need to find an "ideal" new home becomes pressing. That would explain the presence of small settlements throughout the cluster on frontier worlds and even different factions like outlaws, and would imply that the population on the ark itself is large enough to support new colonies if we find new habitable worlds. Basically most humans are still living on the ark, waiting for somebody to find a world that would be good enough to become the new homeworld of humanity - but plenty of people have already left the ark and are living on small outposts, or would be willing to move to new colonies that the player character establishes.

 

I imagine "Pathfinder" is a human-only rank, because the human colonial government have decided that this is the time to send out explorers and find a permanent place to settle. But the survey leak talks about a krogan colony ship too - if I had to guess, they'd have a similar exploration program that is trying to find a suitable world to move the ark population onto.

 

So we're not the people that fled the Milky Way, we're the descendants of them - and after several generations of piecemeal colonisation, it's now time to explore more of the cluster and find a permanent settlement to move all the humans to and disband our section of the ark "station".

 

At least, that's my best guess.


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#167
Danny Boy 7

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Okay, first let me say as someone who despised the endings, both original and EC pretty much from the start, let me say I do welcome the idea of getting far, far away from them.  

 

However, I don't think fleeing to Andromeda is the answer.  In part because it's tacit admission that the endings messed up the galaxy so bad the situation is totally unsalvageable.  But mainly because, well, it's unreachable lore-wise.

 

The codex entry on drive charges states:

 

As positive or negative electric current is passed through an FTL drive core, it acquires a static electrical charge. Drives can be operated an average of 50 hours before they reach charge saturation. This changes proportionally to the magnitude of mass reduction; a heavier or faster ship reaches saturation more quickly.

If the charge is allowed to build, the core will discharge into the hull of a ship. All ungrounded crew members are fried to a crisp, all electronic system are burned out, and metal bulkheads may be melted and fused together.

The safest way to discharge a core is to land on a planet and establish a connection to the ground, like a lightning rod. Larger vessels like dreadnoughts cannot land and must discharge into a planetary magnetic field1.

As the hull discharges, sheets of lightning jump away into the field, creating beautiful auroral displays on the planet. The ship must retract its sensors and weapons while dumping charge to prevent damage, leaving it blind and helpless. Discharging at a moon with a weak magnetic field can take days. Discharging into the powerful field of a gas giant may require less than an hour. Deep space facilities such as the Citadel often have special discharge facilities for visiting ships.

 

So ships can't go more than a couple of days at FTL speeds without risking both ship and crew.  It would take over 500 years for such a ship to reach Andromeda.

 

But wait, you say, the Reapers don't have to discharge their cores!  Well, yes, but...

 

Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to discharge static buildup from their drive cores, although they sometimes appear wreathed in static discharge when they land on planets.

 

So it appears That they do build up a charge, they can just survive the buildup.  I'm not so sure the passengers would though.  And in any case, it would still take over two hundred years to reach Andromeda.

 

THe centuries it would take to transport hundreds, more likely thousands or even tens of thousands of people alive across the galaxy would also be enormous.  even in stasis, you'd need a power supply that will las that long.  SOmething even the Protheans seemed to have a hard time accomplishing (remember Ilos, and how many people Vigil had to triage until only a dozen remained)

 

So, thus my problem in the title.  How is this going to work.  Bioware has gotten into a very bad habit of handwaving away space magic to circumvent story problems.  Will this be another case of it?

Just want to point out that in both cases where stasis failed was I think over ten thousand years that Vigil and Javik needed to live whereas a trip to Andromeda would require only a couple hundred years and in the case of Ilos I believe the facility had been damaged so a fully functional ship might be fine, but they could always have only most of the travelers make it to Andromeda if they really want to sell the whole Wild West tone.



#168
shodiswe

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Maybe the ship spend half the time cooling down and discharging out there in the vacuum of space while centuries and millenia pass..

Travel a few million lightyear, discharge travel again.... While the colonists and crew are in Cryostasis. Javik was in Cryo for 50 000 years, so it's doable....

#169
Twilight_Princess

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Someone mentioned the possibility of the Normandy landing in Andromeda. It's an interesting idea, none the the characters on the Normandy got any slideshows showing them in the Milky way galaxy at the end. The planet they landed on also looked like it was an accident rather than rendezvous point.  Maybe the relay wave combined with the Normandy making an FTL jump could have sent them there? *shrug* Would be a interesting way to give us cameos or if it's set 100s of years in the future, a way to discover old vids or recordings of the ME3 crew.



#170
KrrKs

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So... how are we getting to Andromeda again?

I just hope  it is not a derivative of:

"You don't know, and there is not time to explain"


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#171
Iakus

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Just want to point out that in both cases where stasis failed was I think over ten thousand years that Vigil and Javik needed to live whereas a trip to Andromeda would require only a couple hundred years and in the case of Ilos I believe the facility had been damaged so a fully functional ship might be fine, but they could always have only most of the travelers make it to Andromeda if they really want to sell the whole Wild West tone.

True with Javik, though keep in mind that he was in a facility designed to keep a million stasis pods going, and there were only a fraction of them left  that ended up actually being used.

 

For Ilos it really was just a couple hundred years.  Vigil kept tabs on the harvest and awakened the survivors once the coast was clear.


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#172
shodiswe

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Someone mentioned the possibility of the Normandy landing in Andromeda. It's an interesting idea, none the the characters on the Normandy got any slideshows showing them in the Milky way galaxy at the end. The planet they landed on also looked like it was an accident rather than rendezvous point.  Maybe the relay wave combined with the Normandy making an FTL jump could have sent them there? *shrug* Would be a interesting way to give us cameos or if it's set 100s of years in the future, a way to discover old vids or recordings of the ME3 crew.


Wern't the EC slides showing them on Earth and in the milkyway? Or maybe that was just the non Normandy crew... It seems very unlikely that they would accidentaly endup where you will later have a full fleet of collony ships appear.

#173
Nohvarr

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True with Javik, though keep in mind that he was in a facility designed to keep a million stasis pods going, and there were only a fraction of them left  that ended up actually being used.

 

For Ilos it really was just a couple hundred years.  Vigil kept tabs on the harvest and awakened the survivors once the coast was clear.

Javik's facility was also compromised in the final assault so it's unknown what that did to the available power, and pod integrity.


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#174
Heimdall

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@Iakus

 

Well, Javik's situation is a bit difficult to judge because they presumably were only meant to be in stasis for a few centuries and the facility was heavily damaged by the Reaper attack.  That it managed to keep even one pod going for 50,000 years is remarkable.

 

I think that what separates Javik's plan from what happened on Ilos was a matter of design.  In his case it was clearly a plan and the facility probably designed to maintain a great number of stasis pods for that period, it was purpose built for outlasting the Reapers.  The pods on Ilos predate the Reaper invasion, the pods and the facility probably weren't designed for that kind of long term stasis.



#175
Han Shot First

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Someone mentioned the possibility of the Normandy landing in Andromeda. It's an interesting idea, none the the characters on the Normandy got any slideshows showing them in the Milky way galaxy at the end. The planet they landed on also looked like it was an accident rather than rendezvous point.  Maybe the relay wave combined with the Normandy making an FTL jump could have sent them there? *shrug* Would be a interesting way to give us cameos or if it's set 100s of years in the future, a way to discover old vids or recordings of the ME3 crew.

 

Having the Normandy trapped in Andromeda would probably anger more people than it would please with the trip down memory lane. One of the major complaints about the endings prior to the EC, was that the Normandy and its crew appeared stranded on a remote garden world, while Shepard was trapped in the rubble on the Citadel. People though it depressing that the endings effectively ended the relationship Shepard had with any of the LIs aboard the Normandy, since with the relay network destroyed they'd never be reunited.

 

The Normandy being slingshotted to Andromeda would breathe life back into that old shitstorm.