88 réponses à ce sujet

[MorriganFate]

Best to just move on and forget the first series existed if the ending bothers you and wait till you hear a lot of glowing reports or maybe until the price drops to get the next one. It's a year and a half from now if they don't change the date. Plenty of time to let go of the past. Sure, they messed it up with the ending, but after three years, it's probably best to not really think about it. 

[AlanC9]

None of the people complaining about the relocation can come up with any decent ideas to stay in the Milky Way that don't rely on handwaving, moronically vague side-stepping, ignoring player choice or boring side-stories.What is this magical solution that you people envision but BioWare has failed to capitalize on?

My impression is that most of the people who wanted to stay in the Milky Way are just fine with ignoring player choice, and most of the rest want an outright reboot. I'm in the former camp.

[Akimitsu]

I wrote a big lengthy post as a response to some of the posts in this thread, but I think I can sum up much more succinctly.

 

If Bioware shows us that they're making an effort to address the concerns of those of us who think there is something worth saving in terms of the plot points we're left with at the end of ME3, and if they try to make the story follow logically from at least some of the major events therein, then Andromeda would be a fine setting for a new game.

 

You see, I think there's room here for both people who disliked and want to forget ME3's ending as well as for people who liked it enough to want it to have a bearing on the new game.  If this Andromeda business is just a handwave, then that's lazy and speaks volumes as to how unprepared Bioware is to handle a plot of this magnitude.  Bioware went back and adjusted ME3's ending in an attempt to satisfy at least some of the people who complained, I see no reason why they can't make an effort to preserve as much as possible from ME3 for those of us who really do love the universe they created.

 

This whole topic wouldn't have been worth even creating if the only things we knew were that it takes place in the far future and in Andromeda.  The fact that they went further and said they're not canonizing any ending is where my concern starts to rise.  The pitfalls they would need to sidestep would be more difficult, in my opinion, than just picking and choosing between all the options at the end of ME3, making it official, and going from there.  And if they can do that, the need to set it in Andromeda would greatly diminish, though I would have no real reason for not adopting it.  Couple that with the fact that Bioware is known for either lying, or changing their minds on major issues in regards to the plots of their games, and there's a very reasonable concern here.

[GnusmasTHX]

Because the point of this game isn't to preserve ME3 or make you feel nostalgic or teach you how to ride your bike. They're making a new game. That's it. Why do you keep seeing an obligation on BW's part to "fix" ME3 when they're making ME:A? They're taking place in two different places with different casts, they don't need to reconcile any of the events in ME3 to make ME:A work.

[The Night Haunter]

Honestly I am ecstatic that ME:A will have little to no impact from the ending of ME3. ME3 ends and the story is set in stone, with very little room for further stories that aren't completely dependent on the ending chosen. The end of ME3 makes it nigh impossible to continue forward.

 

ME:A occuring in a different galaxy, probably with the 'last' remnants of several civilizations fleeing the Reapers (not knowing they were defeated) provides an incredible starting point for a story. It provides a pretty cool Battlestar Galactica / Homeward / Migration story line that can go anywhere.

 

I loved Shepard, I hated the original ME3 ending (the DLC improved it somewhat), but I am ready for something new. It's like a great TV Show, sure it can go on for season after season, but at a certain point it is better to let it end with dignity than to push forward greedily wanting more. Bones reached this point a few years ago, now it is rather pointless and holds very little similarity to what made it great in the first place, because it is exhausted. I don't want ME to become Shepard's Story and get dragged down as people grow bored with it. I want it to evolve and move forward and ME:A looks like it is going to do exactly that. I cannot wait to hear more about it.

[geth47]

To Shotgun Julia:

 

 

You´re indeed the very model... Of personified common sense.

You should really be proud of yourself. I mean it. I´ve meaning to tell this for some time.

Even the most basic common sense is so scarce today... But you and some of the other people here like gnus,  Steppenwolf and Saul give hope for the future. 

On the other hand, people feeling entitled to spill garbage are overflowing. As Harlan Ellison once said, people should just be entitled to mature and well informed opinions, and not to put ignorance and immaturity on a pedestal.

I´m not one who dares to ask a lady how much she weights. But I´m sure that you´re worth your weight in diamonds. Because common sense is a rarity.

Those guys who are hating Andromeda have no ground to stand upon. And they´re freaking out. There´s nothing to hate about andromeda. And nothing to love either, since what we all know equals approximately... NOTHING. Zero! Nada!!!

But at least the way they at bioware  decided to use in order to deal with the events of the previous trilogy seems correct, and the only viable solution. I have no idea if the game is gonna suck, rock or be meh. But I know that it´s off to a good start, with the right foot. They´re not ignoring the trilogy. It´s just the opposite. They´re taking into account that the trilogy allowed for many different scenarios for small, medium, big and even one enormous event at the end. This new game won´t bother with this events and past achievements of shepard, but with new issues, in a brand new place, with a new protagonist. 

It´s always nice to come across a reasonable individual such as you. Thank you. And the other ones I mentioned and some I forgot to list. 

I´d wish i could say the same for some of the other posters, but it seems their only rock of salvation (or so they think) is to appeal to freedom of opinion and the necessity to be well treated no matter how unsounded their criticism is, how wrong  their positions are, how flawed their line of "reasoning" may be  and how childish their behavior can get.

[Kel Eligor]

I'm personally ecstatic about the narrative possibilities that exploring Andromeda can offer. First there's the exploration of an entirely alien galaxy, which we didn't get to experience first-hand in the Mass Effect franchise when humans first discovered FTL travel and the Mars Prothean ruins. It'll be also be interesting to be presented as a vanguard, and possibly even an invader to the people and cultures already living in Andromeda. I find the nay-sayers to be incredibly short-sighted in their clingyness to the Milky Way given that there is no possibility for Bioware to write a story that won't involve repercussions to Sherpard's chapter and it would honestly be disappointing for the setting to rely so heavily on the premise of previous titles when its trying to explore new scenarios, characters, and events. This isn't supposed to be a spin-off, but a new trilogy.  

[Arcian]

People shouldn't judge a book by its cover. We've only seen a small part of what this game has to offer.

That's what people said about ME3, and look what happened.

[The Hierophant]

Back from work, and oh lookey here, a treat?

First of all, what I said is not opinion, is a fact. No cardinal sin was committed, and bioware is saying for over 2 years that shepard´s tale is over. The reaper war is done. Get this through your heads. To create a side-story that won´t depend nor depict the events or their repercussions as they happened in the original trilogy is not a cardinal sin. It´s a legitimate creative choice. Deal with it, for sanity´s sake!

And i'm not arguing with this, only your tone.

What bioware did was a wise decision, in order to attract new people, offer a new background and avoid the repercussions from the ending. You people are overly-emotional.

You people? Overly emotional? That can't be me surely?

Grow up! And move on!

It's this condescending tone again.

And look in a mirror, your hypocrite: "Getting on your high horse, telling people how to feel, and calling them immature because their opinions runs contrary to your own is laughable."

That is exactly what you´re doing to me. Simply because i pointed out that people are childish (they most certainly are), overly-emotional, are acting based on little information and no common sense whatsoever. What you want is free reign to act stupidly, offer unfounded criticism that is not even valid from any perspective other than a very stretched and infantile notion of freedom of expression. and expecting that your opinion be treated with the utmost respect. People have to bow and tolerate your nonsense, but you have no problem in telling me how to think and how to act. You think it´s unacceptable to call people childish, but you have no problem in saying that my person, my position and my way of acting are laughable. Way to go, smart guy! The professional full-time victims asking for tolerance are ALWAYS the most intolerant. You think your opinion is gold, but you can´t respect the position of the people in charge of the series. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

What in the flip are talking about? Read my post again and show me where i derided the devs for their decision. I'm starting to think you're just projecting the OP's and the like minded's views which i don't agree with on my post which contains none of that. Of all the posts in this thread I only saw you attacking people for holding different viewpoints than you. So how am i a hypocrite for pointing out your behavior?

So you think it´s revolting to say that certain individuals are childish and that such behavior from my part is not tolerable, so you go an call me laughable? Look in a mirror, dude. And quit playing the victim.

You're still doing that thing again, and what are you talking about? Reread my post.

You know what, kid? Maybe if your parents had the effort and the concern to teach you how to think and behave in a mature manner (Yeah... Telling you how to think and how to act) like a real man and not a crybaby you would not be here making a monkey out of you.

See there you go again with that condescending tone, while projecting other people's viewpoints on my post, again.

Feel free to freak out. I love seeing fanboys ranting for no reason. Cry on, baby!

This last bit is ironic because you've spent an entire post projecting other people's anti Andromeda viewpoints that you vehemently despise, and ranting at a non existent argument from my post which only called you out for your tone.

Childish , kid, crybaby? C'mon all you've done is prove my op right.

[AlanC9]

If Bioware shows us that they're making an effort to address the concerns of those of us who think there is something worth saving in terms of the plot points we're left with at the end of ME3, and if they try to make the story follow logically from at least some of the major events therein, then Andromeda would be a fine setting for a new game.

This is confused. If you're going on from some of the plot points, you're canonizing an ending. Since you're paying the cost of canonizing, you might as well go all the way and fully canonize a particular ending. You sound like you're pushing a half-measure here, and I don't see who that would work for.
 

You see, I think there's room here for both people who disliked and want to forget ME3's ending as well as for people who liked it enough to want it to have a bearing on the new game.  If this Andromeda business is just a handwave, then that's lazy and speaks volumes as to how unprepared Bioware is to handle a plot of this magnitude.  Bioware went back and adjusted ME3's ending in an attempt to satisfy at least some of the people who complained, I see no reason why they can't make an effort to preserve as much as possible from ME3 for those of us who really do love the universe they created.

This is even more confused. Laziness has nothing to do with it. Canonization is the easier option since you don't have to make up as much stuff. Not being able to use any of the existing locations means more work, not less work. You say this yourself in the next paragraph.

 

This whole topic wouldn't have been worth even creating if the only things we knew were that it takes place in the far future and in Andromeda.  The fact that they went further and said they're not canonizing any ending is where my concern starts to rise.  The pitfalls they would need to sidestep would be more difficult, in my opinion, than just picking and choosing between all the options at the end of ME3, making it official, and going from there.  And if they can do that, the need to set it in Andromeda would greatly diminish, though I would have no real reason for not adopting it.  Couple that with the fact that Bioware is known for either lying, or changing their minds on major issues in regards to the plots of their games, and there's a very reasonable concern here.

I agree that you should be concerned. This game is not what you're looking for. Bio has decided that they want to preserve the possibility of all the existing ME3 end-states. That means that these states won't carry over into ME:A.

[geth47]

The sycoph,,, I mean, the Hierophant:

 

 

You don´t like my tone, kiddo? Deal with it. Or avoid me. It´s not my intention nor my duty to please sad excuses for fanboys like you. In fact, the more you people get disgruntled, the better.

 

As it was expected, you skirted the issue. You did not even try to offer a cogent response to your hypocrisy. You just want the freedom for your fellow fanboys (from the same mental age as you) to freak out, while you babysit, spoil and protect them from such terrible things like... my tone! Oh! The horror! The horror!!! tst tst... What a shame. How pathetic. And you have the nerve to say that I´m laughable? You would never say that to my face, you punk.

 

And your lame knee-jerk reaction? To say that I´m condescending. Yeah, typical of a professional victim. Immaturity often responds to maturity by calling whoever displays it of being condescending. I guess it´s easier to just label me like that instead of proving the logic of the fanboys and proving me wrong. 

 

It´s no wonder that your whole beef with me has to do with my tone. Guess what? I´m not here to please you. In fact, it pleases me to no end to irritate childish and unbalanced people like you who enter adulthood with the maturity of 8 year old children. 

 

You´ve totally made my point. You spent your entire message arguing against my tone, while skirting the issue that you want free reign for you fanboys to spill nonsense and being treated as gold, while you, not even dealing with the heart of the issue, feels free to label as laughable someone merely because your perceive him (because it suits you and you have no factual grounds against that person) as condescending. 

 

What you would rather see as condescending can be freely be called laughable.

 

But what is obviously childish behavior from infantile minds can´t be pointed out, because such individuals deserve the utmost respect?

 

Who´s the truly laughable one here? 

 

Go change the diapers of your pet fanboys. 

 

And I´ll say it a million times: They are being childish. Their criticism springs from immaturity, false perceptions, a false sense of entitlement, egocentric beliefs and the inability to deal with a NO, any kind of disagreement or criticism. Come on... Keep pampering these individuals and by their 50s they will be psychopaths on the loose. 

 

I won´t even get in a detailed examination of the egotistical manner in which SOME of them even want that their choices (to note, the destroy ending) becomes the only path, the canonical choice, disrespecting the series and the freedom of choice it offered, and all the other people who would rather have another ending. That´s childish and egocentric to the extreme. Hopefuly, the people in charge have a much more balanced, sane and fair perspective, and they perceive the trilogy for what it was much better than theses insane fanboys.

 

And there you are, defending their behavior as a legitimate freedom as if we all had to put up with raving lunacy, immaturity and false criticism and as if they were an endangered species of sorts. Should we clap at your actions?

 

Take a hike, dude. Anyone who dares to defend childish behavior must have way more issues than they do. Get help. 

[Saul Iscariot]

Geth47, whilst I think you are right on all counts, there is always a responsibility to engage, understand, and debate. At the point you ask someone to leave you are no better than them. I know the Net ins't known for people's ability to be convinced or have their minds changed. But the point you give up on that motive then you become like them.

[geth47]

Thanks for your input, but I´m not really interested in exchanging ideas and points of view with them.

 

It´s obvious that they are not rationale beings. Common sense and understanding escapes them. 

 

What use could we have for them? They´re a cancer to any group they may find themselves in. They´re the ones who give videogame players a bad rep. A fact that even the general press has taken notice of. They´re not sane minds interested in a healthy debate capable of dealing with the issue in a mature manner.

 

I just call them on their bs. It´s as much as one can expect to achieve. Trust me, there´s no point in reasoning with these people. It´s never of any use. And I had the misfortune of dealing with internet videogame fanboys since what? 1997.  Wow, almost 20 years.

 

There´s no hope for the dope. 

[Saul Iscariot]

I have no problem on calling them out, but I don't presume I am always right. And you seem reasonable enough to admit when you might be wrong. But the point you give up is when they win. I don't make presumptions about the people I disagree with. I just assume they are me. We're never going to make the world see things our way when we are quiet, even less so when we ignore what they say. I should say I'm quite drunk right now, hippy bollocks isn't my thing normally, but you only sort problems out by talk or money.

[geth47]

Nor do I presume to be always right. All I´m saying is that they are wrong, in this particular issue, because even their methods of analyzing the situation are false. And this can be demonstrated. Their position can´t hold up to scrutiny. And sadly - for them, never for me - not even the most convincing argument will ever make them realize their mistake. 

 

Not being able to convince a fanboy that he´s not Napoleon, or Cleopatra or the man on the moon is not a personal defeat. To pursuit a hopeless cause is a defeat and a bad administration of time and effort. They´re not worth the effort, specially when there´s no chance for them. I´m merely content in stating the facts and dismantling their bs. To stand for the truth is a victory in itself and the best goal one can hope to achieve. There are plenty of voluntary babysitters willing to care for them. 

 

If twisted, sick, irrational and demented people could simply be dissuaded by a nice talk there would be no need for the criminal justice or police forces. Common sense should be a given for everyone, but sadly, few learn to master it. 

 

It should be as you say. But it simply isn´t it. And that´s sad. 

[geth47]

Nor do I presume to be always right. All I´m saying is that they are wrong, in this particular issue, because even their methods of analyzing the situation are false. And this can be demonstrated. Their position can´t hold up to scrutiny. And sadly - for them, never for me - not even the most convincing argument will ever make them realize their mistake. 

 

Not being able to convince a fanboy that he´s not Napoleon, or Cleopatra or the man on the moon is not a personal defeat. To pursuit a hopeless cause is a defeat and a bad administration of time and effort. They´re not worth the effort, specially when there´s no chance for them. I´m merely content in stating the facts and dismantling their bs. To stand for the truth is a victory in itself and the best goal one can hope to achieve. There are plenty of voluntary babysitters willing to care for them. 

 

If twisted, sick, irrational and demented people could simply be dissuaded by a nice talk there would be no need for the criminal justice or police forces. Common sense should be a given for everyone, but sadly, few learn to master it. 

 

It should be as you say. But it simply isn´t it. And that´s sad. 

[The Hierophant]

The sycoph,,, I mean, the Hierophant:

 

 

You don´t like my tone, kiddo? Deal with it. Or avoid me. It´s not my intention nor my duty to please sad excuses for fanboys like you. In fact, the more you people get disgruntled, the better.

 

As it was expected, you skirted the issue. You did not even try to offer a cogent response to your hypocrisy. You just want the freedom for your fellow fanboys (from the same mental age as you) to freak out, while you babysit, spoil and protect them from such terrible things like... my tone! Oh! The horror! The horror!!! tst tst... What a shame. How pathetic. And you have the nerve to say that I´m laughable? You would never say that to my face, you punk.

 

And your lame knee-jerk reaction? To say that I´m condescending. Yeah, typical of a professional victim. Immaturity often responds to maturity by calling whoever displays it of being condescending. I guess it´s easier to just label me like that instead of proving the logic of the fanboys and proving me wrong. 

 

It´s no wonder that your whole beef with me has to do with my tone. Guess what? I´m not here to please you. In fact, it pleases me to no end to irritate childish and unbalanced people like you who enter adulthood with the maturity of 8 year old children. 

 

You´ve totally made my point. You spent your entire message arguing against my tone, while skirting the issue that you want free reign for you fanboys to spill nonsense and being treated as gold, while you, not even dealing with the heart of the issue, feels free to label as laughable someone merely because your perceive him (because it suits you and you have no factual grounds against that person) as condescending. 

 

What you would rather see as condescending can be freely be called laughable.

 

But what is obviously childish behavior from infantile minds can´t be pointed out, because such individuals deserve the utmost respect?

 

Who´s the truly laughable one here? 

 

Go change the diapers of your pet fanboys. 

 

And I´ll say it a million times: They are being childish. Their criticism springs from immaturity, false perceptions, a false sense of entitlement, egocentric beliefs and the inability to deal with a NO, any kind of disagreement or criticism. Come on... Keep pampering these individuals and by their 50s they will be psychopaths on the loose. 

 

I won´t even get in a detailed examination of the egotistical manner in which SOME of them even want that their choices (to note, the destroy ending) becomes the only path, the canonical choice, disrespecting the series and the freedom of choice it offered, and all the other people who would rather have another ending. That´s childish and egocentric to the extreme. Hopefuly, the people in charge have a much more balanced, sane and fair perspective, and they perceive the trilogy for what it was much better than theses insane fanboys.

 

And there you are, defending their behavior as a legitimate freedom as if we all had to put up with raving lunacy, immaturity and false criticism and as if they were an endangered species of sorts. Should we clap at your actions?

 

Take a hike, dude. Anyone who dares to defend childish behavior must have way more issues than they do. Get help. 

Fellow fanboys? There you go again in assuming my stance. I don't agree with the anti-Andromeda zealots' stance or any of their potential misconduct that violates the site's rules, but when compared to your conduct i have yet to see your opponents generalise, and belittle an entire group for having a differing opinion. So far I've only seen you flying off the deep end with the insults before my response.

 

You could have easily corrected my assessment of your behavior by providing evidence like quoted posts that prove that the people you were debating against were being douches, even though two wrongs  don't make a right (*lol edit), but you didn't. Instead you continued on with the condescending attitude, and the insults. 

 

Take a hike? Nah. I like this little cozy trash heap of a thread.

[Paridave]

You are not going to get them to re-write the premise of the game because their crazy, cry-baby fan-base writes things on the forum.

 

It is much too late for that.

They're not going to rewrite, they're giving us Andromeda.  And in case you don't know complaints about the ending for ME3 began hitting Bioware about 3 days after the game came out (those were some serious gamers) and a petition was started that gathered over 60,000 signatures, so it's not like there are a few crybabies complaining.  

[Paridave]

 This isn't supposed to be a spin-off, but a new trilogy.  

Actually, no one has said anything about this being a new trilogy.  I suspect what you will see from now on will be 120 -150 hour story arcs which will allow Bioware to either continue the story line or move to a new story line.  

[The Hierophant]

Actually, no one has said anything about this being a new trilogy.  I suspect what you will see from now on will be 120 -150 hour story arcs which will allow Bioware to either continue the story line or move to a new story line.  

So does this mean that they'll move on to a new pc for each instalment like with TES, and DA?

[Sion1138]

So does this mean that they'll move on to a new pc for each instalment like with TES, and DA?

 

Possibly. Likely even.

[The Hierophant]

I don't think petitioning and being vocal will do anything.

 

Money talks louder than words.

What's done is done. The writers know that them focusing on the Milky Way would force them to acknowledge any one of the endiings, and cause a massive shitstorm. At this point people should worry more about the execution of ME:A's quest design, narrative, and gameplay.