118 réponses à ce sujet

[peoplescan]

But Eve was a robot, why I couldn't hack it? All Shepard needed was his omni tool.

I don't think shepard know that eve was a robot then

[Sylvius the Mad]

I disagree, for one, it probably will have multi-player, and the first sign of a bad multiplayer is options that are way too lopsided. And gameplay design should be designed with options being equally capable (if different styles) because not only is multiplayer concerned, but there will be characters from all classes, and a bad class means a bad character, which means that there is less utilization of the effort you put in as a game designer. Good game design means a balanced game design.

Good RPG design requires a believable setting, first and foremost.

I wouldn't object to the classes playing differently in SP vs MP, but I think pursuing class balance as an objective is the wrong way to go about designing the game's setting (the rules are an element of the setting).

But then I strongly favour simulationist design over gamist design.

[PhroXenGold]

Good RPG design requires a believable setting, first and foremost.

I wouldn't object to the classes playing differently in SP vs MP, but I think pursuing class balance as an objective is the wrong way to go about designing the game's setting (the rules are an element of the setting).

But then I strongly favour simulationist design over gamist design.

 

While, in principle, I lean towards a position like this, when it comes to the practicalities of creating a cRPG (as opposed to, say, a PnP system), I feel that some  compromises towards gameplay must be made.

 

Given the nature of such games, combat is always going to be a major factor in the experience, and thus ensuring that combat is enjoyable has to be a central pillar of the design. Without creating different combat encounters for different classes (or builds in classless systems) - something that is unfeasible given the resource constraints even the biggest developers work under - the only way to ensure that combat is enjoyable for all classes is to ensure there is a degree of balance between those classes. If one class is significantly more powerful than the baseline the combat is design around, then combat will be trivialised and thus not enjoyable. Likewise, if one class is significantly weaker, combat will be too difficult for people who like to play that type of character, and thus not enjoyable.

 

That's not to say that, in a single player RPG, things need to be perfectly balanced to the level they do in a competetive multiplayer game. But given how cRPGs work, I believe that ensuring that the power level of all classes is at least in the same ballpark is neccesary to keep the experience as a whole enjoyable.

 

I feel similar problems exist with creating classless systems - in principle I think they're great, giving the players freedom to build their character how they like should be exactly what RPGs are about. But from my experience of playing cRPGs, they simply don't work well in practice. If you give the player a freeform character build creator, you end up either with horribly imbalanced  builds, with the aforementionned problems, or you homogonise characters, such that, while there remains a great variety of concept, there is very little variety in gameplay. By retaining classes, each with their own specific style of gameplay, a far greater variety in playstyles can be incoporated, while still maintaining a reasonable degree of balance between different characters.

 

As an aside, when I read a lot of your posts Sylvius, I can't help but get the feeling you'd be a hell of a lot happier playing PnP instead of cRPGs. That's not meant as a criticism in any way, just that the style of experience you seem to desire seems far more suited to the environment of PnP and the opportunities offered by that style of game.

[Draining Dragon]

I hope so. They're an iconic part of the franchise.

[Former_Fiend]

But seriously. I want my omni-bow. And my omni-shield. And my omni-whips. And my omni-grenades. And my mono-molecular bladed katana.

 

Not necessarily all on the same character, but I want them as options.

[Boost32]

I don't think shepard know that eve was a robot then

Shepard shoot eve countless times, mine was s engineer, should have hacked or overload it.
And even the option do hack the shuttle should be avaliable.

[dfjdejulio]

I don't recall NG+ making a huge difference on the playthrough. The The only thing that changes is the level and you don't have to repurchase all the stuff you got in the last one.

 

I think people sometimes conflate the NG+ thing with the achievement thing.  Do some things in one playthrough and you get bonuses in another playthrough, whether it's technically NG+ or not.  If you're an altaholic who hates NG+ mechanics, I could see that getting annoying.

 

On the XBox, I'll sometimes create a new purely-local gamertag, to play through the game in a "blank slate" configuration, with no achievement-driven bonuses at all.

[karushna5]

Good RPG design requires a believable setting, first and foremost.

I wouldn't object to the classes playing differently in SP vs MP, but I think pursuing class balance as an objective is the wrong way to go about designing the game's setting (the rules are an element of the setting).

But then I strongly favour simulationist design over gamist design.

 

Regardless of simulationist or Gamist, there is a believable setting in place, and thus there is no reason to favor one class over another, but combat so far as these games have always been designed and played have always been built on gamist principles, and would require a complete overhaul to even approach simulationist play. Never mind that simulationist play will always require some gamist principles when there is heavy combat or it wouldn't be fun.

 

I disagree that as long as the combat is not completely overhauled having the classes fairly balanced is a must for fun gameplay, especially since it is an important feature and choice for the player, whose only real input the game usually notices that choice is through gameplay meaning combat. I would argue that only a simulationist game with very little combat could really make that choice count, so like a survival game where combat is infrequent but deadly and having other classes could give you a different roleplay aspect to that class, then yeah imbalance those classes in combat. But since the only input the classes give so far hardly at all is Combat, then I feel the choice needs to be honoured by the developers and made to be fairly even but with different gameplay.

 

Its like how people hate in games there is an evil option that gives you no other reason than to be evil to choose it, but even then you are getting roleplay consequences that the game recognizes and can often influence the story/plot. But if a dialogue option says "Shoot yourself" "shoot best friend" "shoot love interest" or "shoot bad guy" those aren't real choices, the answer is obvious and is almost getting rid of having a choice at all. If one class is going to be so obviously better than the rest, it is like negating choosing a class at all or penalizing people for choosing a class that is against the grain.

 

And that isn't simulationist when there isn't a reason in the game world for it being like that.

[themageguy]

But seriously. I want my omni-bow. And my omni-shield. And my omni-whips. And my omni-grenades. And my mono-molecular bladed katana.
 
Not necessarily all on the same character, but I want them as options.

Omni-bow would be awesome on an infiltrator. I envision being able to let loose an Omni arrow laced with venom, whilst in stealth.

Prob call him Thornton

[The Night Haunter]

What I really want, and have always wanted, is a melee oriented character. Not someone with a gun who is good at shoulder bashing, but someone who excels at weathering enemy fire and launching devastating omni-blade attacks. It could work, that section of Destiny where you run around with a sword destroying fools was awesome.

[Vegeta 77]

I hope the same six classes are still there they have been part of mass effect since the beginning. But adding one or two new classes would be nice like a melee only class and medic class.

[Former_Fiend]

Omni-bow would be awesome on an infiltrator. I envision being able to let loose an Omni arrow laced with venom, whilst in stealth.

Prob call him Thornton

 

Me, I just think these were interesting features in ME3's multiplayer that shouldn't go to waste as only being featured there. 

 

I think if they really want to separate this new protagonist from Shepard, they should let us use some of these more out there and exotic features that weren't available to Shepard, who was a very basic character as far as what people in universe were capable of.

[Ahriman]

Omni-bow would be awesome on an infiltrator

Add omni-spear for sentinel, omni-catapult for engineer and count me in.

Omni-bow... For Shepard's sake.

[Laughing_Man]

Just add Omni-Darkspawn and Omni-Templars and we can call the game Omni-Dragon Age: Andromeda.

[Former_Fiend]

Do not knock the Talon Mercenary.

 

http://masseffect.wi...cenary_Engineer

 

Tore sh*t up with my omnibow on that bastard. 

[Mirrman70]

I want that Krogan Warhammer thing.

[Former_Fiend]

I want that Krogan Warhammer thing.

 

I'm hoping we can outfit our krogan companion with it.

[MR CauSe iM GoD]

Bring back annihilation field, make a sentinel. Good to go.

[DarthLaxian]

Or will they add a class or change something up?

 

Adept

Soldier

Engineer

Sentinel

Infiltrator

Vanguard

 

I would hope NOT - I'd hope that they'd do away with the class system altogether (!), so the only choice you have to make is whether your character is a biotic or not (hell, maybe that shouldn't be up to the player either...maybe our pathfinder-job requires you to have biotics and you can only decide if you want to develop them or not, like an Asari!)

 

I would love the added flexibility (having tactical cloak as a biotic, that would make my day!) and balance (for those people worried about that) isn't that important IMHO (it's a singleplayer game!)

 

greetings LAX