27 réponses à ce sujet

[mickey111]

Can't it be just about the characters? It's not really uncommon knowledge that characters are the main thing Bioware have to their advantage. It's unusual to see something which is just a really a series of short stories about a crew of people just living life one day at a time, but I've seen a few good examples from shows like firefly, cowboy bebop and star trek.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yes, it has to have a plot. Let's not lower the bar too much.

[mickey111]

Yes, it has to have a plot. Let's not lower the bar too much.

 

 

The lowest bar is generally accepted as the trilogies favorite by many... come to think of it, empire strikes back had no real major plot either... it was really just dealing with the consequences of the plot of the previous movie of the series. Turned out to be the favored of the lot.

[Linkenski]

How the hell would you care for any of the characters if there was no plot? It may be little or really dull to some, but at least the goal of ME2, the suicide mission, did at least tie the crew together and I'd say form a bond between them (or potentially it could have).

 

What would the protagonist be? Just some guy without any personal goals talking to people to fit in?

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

This is why I prefer MP.

[Dr. Rush]

I mean, ME2 didn't have a plot, and it worked out okayish. 

[KaiserShep]

This is why I prefer MP.

 

Except none of the enemies in MP would exist without SP's plot

[PhroXenGold]

I'm hoping for lots of plot. Big blue alien plot.

[mickey111]

How the hell would you care for any of the characters if there was no plot? It may be little or really dull to some, but at least the goal of ME2, the suicide mission, did at least tie the crew together and I'd say form a bond between them (or potentially it could have).

 

What would the protagonist be? Just some guy without any personal goals talking to people to fit in?

 

 

same as everyone elses I expect... money, food, a sense of "home". 

 

to dekar25: shame the mods of this forum don't support the use of "dumb ass of the week" tags or similar. 

[Medhia_Nox]

I absolutely believe that Bioware should make the game centered around the Companions and your relationships with them and drive the story through that.  In that sense, that would be the plot.

 

This should include minor and major conflicts between the desires of your companions.  One wants X, the other wants Y - but to give either of them what they want the other has to get nothing or something less. 

 

During these Companion based missions (and the whole game should be companion based missions) - you can have agency of your own.  Alter the fabric of events going on in those missions - not just for the Companion, but for yourself personally.  Starting conflicts, ending conflicts, building up structure, tearing down structure, creating alliances, breaking them, etc. etc. etc. All based on your personal desires as you exist in this new world.

 

The "plot" could be to "find homeworlds for all races" or better yet "deal with all races" (leaving room for some pretty heinous actions for our edgy grimdark types).... that should give us literally all the time we want to play the game without some "impending doom" which really isn't impending at all because it's going to wait while you finish scanning Keepers are whatever (my most despised convention in cRPGs) 

 

This game should be about forging an entirely new social structure after everything has broken down.  If I can decide which races rise to the forefront - which decline - who comprises the "new Council" - or any thing like that I will be extremely happy.  And ALL of that can be developed into a new trilogy.

 

Let's say I choose the Asari to decline - in my game, when I return to them in ME 5 - maybe they've had some successes I can't control, but otherwise they're still a struggling backwater.  But if someone else chooses the Asari to be at the forefront - then they're leading galactic policy again and their colonies are flourishing.  (and yes, two different world states like that are totally able to be represented with a little imagination)

 

Bioware - use those imaginations!  Save us from the "Big Bad" - there's so much more we can do.

[L. Han]

You have got to be kidding me. Plot is essential to any form of storytelling. There has to be some reason for characters to be somewhere, there has to be a reason for things to happen and set things in motion. All the examples you put up has a plot, setting, and some lore.

 

Otherwise you'll just have something like the Sims.

[saladinbob]

More like you've lost the bloody plot. Go play the Sims if you want characters with no context.

[FKA_Servo]

It may be better off without one if ME2 and ME3 are any indication.

[FKA_Servo]

I absolutely believe that Bioware should make the game centered around the Companions and your relationships with them and drive the story through that.  In that sense, that would be the plot.

 

This should include minor and major conflicts between the desires of your companions.  One wants X, the other wants Y - but to give either of them what they want the other has to get nothing or something less. 

 

During these Companion based missions (and the whole game should be companion based missions) - you can have agency of your own.  Alter the fabric of events going on in those missions - not just for the Companion, but for yourself personally.  Starting conflicts, ending conflicts, building up structure, tearing down structure, creating alliances, breaking them, etc. etc. etc. All based on your personal desires as you exist in this new world.

 

The "plot" could be to "find homeworlds for all races" or better yet "deal with all races" (leaving room for some pretty heinous actions for our edgy grimdark types).... that should give us literally all the time we want to play the game without some "impending doom" which really isn't impending at all because it's going to wait while you finish scanning Keepers are whatever (my most despised convention in cRPGs) 

 

This game should be about forging an entirely new social structure after everything has broken down.  If I can decide which races rise to the forefront - which decline - who comprises the "new Council" - or any thing like that I will be extremely happy.  And ALL of that can be developed into a new trilogy.

 

Let's say I choose the Asari to decline - in my game, when I return to them in ME 5 - maybe they've had some successes I can't control, but otherwise they're still a struggling backwater.  But if someone else chooses the Asari to be at the forefront - then they're leading galactic policy again and their colonies are flourishing.  (and yes, two different world states like that are totally able to be represented with a little imagination)

 

Bioware - use those imaginations!  Save us from the "Big Bad" - there's so much more we can do.

 

Can't like this enough.

 

The best parts of ME2 were sidemissions that had nothing to do with the main plot.

[UKStory135]

As someone who was bored out of mind with Destiny, the game needs some sort of story with substance. Other than the ending, I thought ME did a extremely good job in the first trilogy.  The first game was plot emphasized, the second was character driven, the third was mostly society and plot driven.

[Medhia_Nox]

@UKStory135:  I don't think the OP is asking for "a story with no substance" - I think what is at the heart of the matter is "what is substance" and "do we need to follow the same formula to achieve success". 

 

Bioware's weakest attribute is following the same mold over and over... this is the perfect opportunity to save us from the "Big Bad" scenario which plagues cRPGs.  

 

Let's take a small scenario.  Bioware decides: "In this part, there's going to be a conflict."

Now, I'd love Bioware to solve it like this:  3 (or more options)... player chooses.

 

1)  You have two races, you anger one of them and then are forced to face off against race X or Y as the bad guys (think Ventori or Red Templars where what you fought changes).  

 

2)  You anger both races and face a losing conflict for this scenario where your best bet is to "make the best" out of the situation.  This story arc would leave "peace" for someone else to negotiate in future MEs between the humans (which you presumably represent) and whatever races you pissed off.

 

3)  You make peace with both after sacrificing "something" (and something important to the player - NOT the game world which the player can ignore).  You avert conflict.  

 

Events should be totally avoidable with effort if that's the goal. 

 

Shadowrun: Dragonfall is excellent with this... if you put in the time and effort you can totally avoid fighting and solve almost everything through wit and THAT is an indie game. 

 

We don't need a Darkspawn, a Corypheus, a Reapers, a Cerberus... etc. etc.  Small factions of enemies through the new galaxy while trying to forge a new life for everyone is a GREAT plot... or, it can be.

[mickey111]

More like you've lost the bloody plot. Go play the Sims if you want characters with no context.

 

Hey everybody, star trek, cowboy bebop and firefly are filled with characters without any context. I believe the main advantage ME2 had over the trilogy is that each of the companions had their own short stories, stories that one writer was in charge of from beginning to middle to end. The trilogy took about a decade to complete, and had no such advantage. The former was neat, cohesive and made sense... the latter had no such protection against this trap, and we all saw how it ended... it seems the inevitable fate for a series of stories from all mediums of fiction to turn into **** over x number of years. 

[L. Han]

Hey everybody, star trek, cowboy bebop and firefly are filled with characters without any context.

 

Firefly had plenty of underlying plot. They all had a story prior to the time the show was set. Malcom and Zoe were soldiers together, River was being experimented on, the list goes on. It also includes the reason why they are all together as a crew of the Firefly in the first place. Each character had their own reason to be there, but stayed on because they wanted to.

 

Each episode also had something interconnecting with each other. References to previous events. Examples like them constantly being on the run from the Feds because of River, Inara becoming more attached and so on.

 

If you have trouble understanding all of that, try to visualize the plot as an airplane. And the characters being the passengers, with a few being the pilot to fly (to drive the plot). Without the plane, they won't even be in the air.

[General TSAR]

No thanks, I rather have some resembling a plot (even if it's just mini-arcs connected to each other) rather than no plot at all.

[N7Jamaican]

ME:A has no plot.  It's a run-and-gun Rambo styled game.

[Joseph Warrick]

Feels a bit onanistic for the protagonist and the crew. Hey, we have a whole new galaxy in front of us and yet we only concern ourselves with... ourselves.

 

Besides what kind of companion stories are you thinking of? They're all a galaxy away from family and friends right? They can't do their typical "reunite me with my absent family member" now.

[Draining Dragon]

You're joking, right? "Does a Mass Effect game have to have a plot?"

That's like asking if a Call of Duty game has to have combat in it.

[LemurFromTheId]

Not if it's multiplayer only.

[Linkenski]

They tried that for the most part with ME2. What little plot there is is pretty bad (Lazarus) or didn't matter (Collectors) but it turned out to be my favorite game of theirs. Just for the expanded world building and characters.

 

Casey Hudson: "the funny thing is that people will say 'other than gathering your crew and building your team and getting ready for this mission, there's not much story there.' But that is the story."

To be frank you can make a good plot out of it with the right context, like, what are they gathering forces for? In Mass Effect 2 everything was hamfisted and the Collectors almost felt place-holder esque. That's why the plot failed to make an impact. Then take Mass Effect 3. It's Reapers. Suddenly there's more to be said. If you break it down, the war that's going on and the struggle our characters assemble to face is about fighting control and determinism, breaking the cycle etc. The reapers impose order on helpless species in the same way that humans can step on ants like it's nothing. There's good thematic context, and that's all it needs.

 

Typically you really just need to make a mundane and simple premise and then you can make it work if you tackle the themes and baggage that comes with that in smart ways. The "gather our forces" stories can easily work. It's not a problem that it's too simple but we need context that isn't too dull and it can't just be about the characters and then the force which they fight don't matter, because it should.