32 réponses à ce sujet

[N7Jamaican]

Doing another ME playthrough as femShep and male shep.  I normally play as infiltrator (for male), Engineer (for female).  I just love those two classes.  And in ME3, removing weapon restrictions -- I can play an infiltrator and engineer a bit differently.

 

I hope in ME:A, they give us one class specific skill (tactical cloak for Infil, combat drone for Eng), but they we get to choose two abilities that could fit those classes.

 

Now, you won't see an engineer using the Vanguard's charge ability or Nova for that matter, so abilities that would make sense to avoid being overpowered.

 

Thoughts?

[L. Han]

I thought engineers might be cool if they get special grenades. Being able to modify special properties, carry more, give them to allies. Just name some ideas.

[Draining Dragon]

I kind of wish they would go back to the ME2 combat and class system. I liked that better than the ME3 one.

[Catastrophy]

I kind of wish they would go back to the ME2 combat and class system. I liked that better than the ME3 one.

No.

[N7Jamaican]

I thought engineers might be cool if they get special grenades. Being able to modify special properties, carry more, give them to allies. Just name some ideas.

 

I loved the combat drone, deploying turrets..  And to top it all off no weapon restrictions!  So I could use my sniper rifle.  I loved playing as ranged classes in ME2-3.

[goofyomnivore]

Ammos and grenades should be selectable and not tied to classes. The combat in ME3 was quite fast paced in a bad way I thought. ME2 was slower, but more challenging and tactical I thought. ME3 no matter what you did, you made big explosions, and did lots of damage.

 

I didn't play much multiplayer. I burnt myself out on it during the beta, so I don't know much about the multiplayer classes. 

 

But from a SP perspective I'd want

 

Soldier scrapped or completely redone.

New class power for Sentinel. Tech Armor is a boring skill.

A "tech dash" for Infiltrator and Engineer. Not as powerful or quick as biotic charge, but maybe some power boots to quickly evade/cover a short distance.

[FKA_Servo]

I would like a wider variety of builds available. What I want them to do is take the more interesting and situational abilities that were only available to MP characters and let those inform the class design.

 

Really speaking, I'd like the MP abilities (and items, for that matter) to be available to use in SP, full stop. No reason why they can't share the same items and abilities this time around.

[Steppenwolf]

I would very much like to have choices with regards to powers. Maybe a month or two ago I posted an idea about just that, and it involved every class having 3 specific, unique powers and a pool of additional class-geared but non-unique powers from which to choose 3 more and then a pool of universal powers that every class got to pick 1 from. 

[N7Jamaican]

I would very much like to have choices with regards to powers. Maybe a month or two ago I posted an idea about just that, and it involved every class having 3 specific, unique powers and a pool of additional class-geared but non-unique powers from which to choose 3 more and then a pool of universal powers that every class got to pick 1 from. 

 

I would really like this.  Gives the opportunity for different builds and play styles.

[NextGenCowboy]

I think we should tier powers. Everyone chooses their base class, Vanguard, Soldier etc. That sets your Fitness, and passive class tree. Determining carry weight, and weapon/power damage spread. Then we have a required secondary, like Nova, or the off-turret, or whatever. Then start breaking it down by Tier and class. Engineers can't use Biotics, but have more Tier 2 (assuming Combat Drone is Tier 3) options. Allowing them both Incinerate and Overload, or whatever their equivalent is. With a bonus power (again kept seperate) they'd be the only class that could prime, and detonate a tech explosion while priming another one, by themselves.

 

While Vanguard would have its selection of Tier 1 skills, allowing for a Pull and Throw combo or whatever, it wouldn't have access to something like Warp, or Reave, which would be Tier 2. Meaning it can't (without bonus powers) prime a target for a charge, without the help of teammates.

 

Adept would have access to those same Engineer setups (Biotic versions obviously), with more emphasis on explosion damage, and crowd control. I'd like to see Lift make a return.

 

In addition, I'd like to see each class get a selection of Ammo powers (if they don't return to mods), and Grenades. Maybe give the Engineer the highest grenade damage from passives, but the soldier the best selection, and give the Soldier a large bonus to weapon damage, and ammo powers/mods.

 

Perhaps to balance out the Sentinel once again, seeing as its choices would be somewhat limited with only three tiers, it could gain a bonus to armor mods.

 

The issue with all of this, is balance. That said, the crux of the idea, having choice for what powers our MC has beyond just choosing their class, is one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

[Hiemoth]

I kind of wish they would go back to the ME2 combat and class system. I liked that better than the ME3 one.

 

This comment confuses me a lot considering ME3 uses the class and combat system of ME2.

[Hiemoth]

I think we should tier powers. Everyone chooses their base class, Vanguard, Soldier etc. That sets your Fitness, and passive class tree. Determining carry weight, and weapon/power damage spread. Then we have a required secondary, like Nova, or the off-turret, or whatever. Then start breaking it down by Tier and class. Engineers can't use Biotics, but have more Tier 2 (assuming Combat Drone is Tier 3) options. Allowing them both Incinerate and Overload, or whatever their equivalent is. With a bonus power (again kept seperate) they'd be the only class that could prime, and detonate a tech explosion while priming another one, by themselves.

 

While Vanguard would have its selection of Tier 1 skills, allowing for a Pull and Throw combo or whatever, it wouldn't have access to something like Warp, or Reave, which would be Tier 2. Meaning it can't (without bonus powers) prime a target for a charge, without the help of teammates.

 

Adept would have access to those same Engineer setups (Biotic versions obviously), with more emphasis on explosion damage, and crowd control. I'd like to see Lift make a return.

 

In addition, I'd like to see each class get a selection of Ammo powers (if they don't return to mods), and Grenades. Maybe give the Engineer the highest grenade damage from passives, but the soldier the best selection, and give the Soldier a large bonus to weapon damage, and ammo powers/mods.

 

Perhaps to balance out the Sentinel once again, seeing as its choices would be somewhat limited with only three tiers, it could gain a bonus to armor mods.

 

The issue with all of this, is balance. That said, the crux of the idea, having choice for what powers our MC has beyond just choosing their class, is one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

I guess my issue with the suggestion here is that I don't really see it balancing things out, since those higher tier abilites would by nature be more powerful, actually I feel like this would be a nightmare to balance out.

 

Besides, I am actually against having the powers be independent of the class as it did allow ME team to really work on making each class feel unique in ME2/3 and focus on those different balancing issues.

[UKStory135]

This comment confuses me a lot considering ME3 uses the class and combat system of ME2.

ME3 has a weight system where any class could use any weapon, but the harder hitting stuff weighs more and slows cooldowns. ME2 restricted what weapons you could carry, but let you carry a bonus weapon (or use the Claymore or Widow)  after the collector ship mission.

[Hiemoth]

ME3 has a weight system where any class could use any weapon, but the harder hitting stuff weighs more and slows cooldowns. ME2 restricted what weapons you could carry, but let you carry a bonus weapon (or use the Claymore or Widow)  after the collector ship mission.

 

I forgot that, but is it really that big of a change in the system? You can essentially carry the same weapons than in the ME2 and the weight system has the cooldowns about the same as in ME2. So basically the system just allows for me variability in approaches and builds.

[NextGenCowboy]

The weight system changes the game entirely. Cooldowns in ME3 are so much faster if you're not loading yourself down with weapons. A Sentinel or Adept using only a Pistol or SMG can throw out Biotic and/or Tech detonations every 2-3 seconds, by themselves. Vanguards kind of got hosed in the core game, if they wanted to use things like the Claymore, because they were extremely heavy. The Wraith was the alternative, unless one went the Citadel route, and used the Lancer, which breaks everything except Insanity Arena matches at the highest levels. Alternatively, many people went SMG/Pistol/Novaguard.

 

There's an even bigger emphasis on weight in MP.

 

My idea isn't flawless, it seems like Tier 2 stuff like Warp would be stronger, but Pull + Throw wih cooldowns at <1.5 second demolishes the game, even on Insanity, the counter to that is of course having more enemies with Armor, Shields, etc. Adepts can get through, Vanguards have a tougher time. The balance issue comes from what types of enemies we face, in what kind of numbers.

[mickey111]

It's fun to just continually mash nova and charge on everyone only stopping to pull out a geth smg and incendiary ammo for big bosses but it is too easy.

[Enigmatick]

Separate cooldowns for biotic/tech/physical abilitie.s

[NextGenCowboy]

It's fun to just continually mash nova and charge on everyone only stopping to pull out a geth smg and incendiary ammo for big bosses but it is too easy.

 

This is why I don't use Nova in SP, except in the final two rounds of the Arena. Not like the game's any less broken if you're running around with the Lancer, or Particle Rifle, or whatever, loaded down with Exploding Ammo doing 145 damage per explosion, and setting up fire detonations off a Charge.

 

Balance is hard because the more options you give the player, the more likely the player is to break the game. That said, MP is generally there for those of us that want to actually try and play at those levels (as is things like the Arena, which I hope is carried over). I can play through Insanity in my sleep, with an Avenger, and nothing except Pull, Reave, Charge, and Incendiary Ammo, I couldn't solo Gold without a specific setup like Warlord V. Geth if my life depended on it, let alone Platinum. There's a huge gap between there.

 

All that said, remember, every game except 2 had balance issues. Any class in 1 with Lift maxed, even Soldier, broke the hell out of most battles. And 2 ends up being pure frustration for some classes without add-ons or levels/upgrades. Without the Locust, Biotics are basically up the creek until they get some upgrades, or a squadmate that can handle Shields effectively.

 

Ultimately, all I really want to see is the continuing trend of more options. If the game feels too easy, then give players the option for difficult fights, both in SP, and MP. The power choice thing was just a thought I rolled around in my head for a day or two, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the thought. More armor customization, more weapons, mods, etc.

 

ME3 may be my favorite third-person shooter from a mechanical standpoint both in terms of its RPG elements, and core mechanics. I'd like to see that expanded upon even further. Anything else is icing on a very awesome cake.

[mickey111]

it's only because the table was tilted in the players favor... do something like x-com, or kings bounty and give the unfair advantages to the enemy. People are generally much, much better thinkers than computer controlled enemies, which is why famously difficult games are also known to break it's own rules and take one sided advantages and yet people find a sense of enjoyment in coming out of their shitty situation through the ability to think and get good. Mass Effect did this the other way around.

[Hiemoth]

This is why I don't use Nova in SP, except in the final two rounds of the Arena. Not like the game's any less broken if you're running around with the Lancer, or Particle Rifle, or whatever, loaded down with Exploding Ammo doing 145 damage per explosion, and setting up fire detonations off a Charge.

 

Balance is hard because the more options you give the player, the more likely the player is to break the game. That said, MP is generally there for those of us that want to actually try and play at those levels (as is things like the Arena, which I hope is carried over). I can play through Insanity in my sleep, with an Avenger, and nothing except Pull, Reave, Charge, and Incendiary Ammo, I couldn't solo Gold without a specific setup like Warlord V. Geth if my life depended on it, let alone Platinum. There's a huge gap between there.

 

All that said, remember, every game except 2 had balance issues. Any class in 1 with Lift maxed, even Soldier, broke the hell out of most battles. And 2 ends up being pure frustration for some classes without add-ons or levels/upgrades. Without the Locust, Biotics are basically up the creek until they get some upgrades, or a squadmate that can handle Shields effectively.

 

Ultimately, all I really want to see is the continuing trend of more options. If the game feels too easy, then give players the option for difficult fights, both in SP, and MP. The power choice thing was just a thought I rolled around in my head for a day or two, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the thought. More armor customization, more weapons, mods, etc.

 

ME3 may be my favorite third-person shooter from a mechanical standpoint both in terms of its RPG elements, and core mechanics. I'd like to see that expanded upon even further. Anything else is icing on a very awesome cake.

 

But I don't kind of understand your point, although I also agree that ME3 is also among my favorites and, for me, you forgot to mention its awesome encounter design.

 

The thing I don't understand is that the current offers that change of choosing to focus on heavier hurt weapons or different kinds of weapons or abilities with the weight system and provides a really elegant mechanic for how the choice of weapons impacts gameplay. While I agree that there is some polishing still to be done on the initial cooldown lenghts and weights, if they have such a mechnanic that allows that flexibilty, shouldn't they focus on improving that instead of scrapping it for another system? Which they might still do, although I hope not as their current base mechanic is quite excellent and gives a good base for growth.

[NextGenCowboy]

My hope isn't that the weapon weight, and mod mechanic is scrapped in favor of choosing powers for ones class. My hope is that it's kept, and then, when we start the game, or respec (maybe not even then), we'd be allowed to choose a set number of skills for our class, based on that class.

 

Just as an example. Let's take an Engineer as a Base. In ME3 the Engineer has: Incinerate, Overload, Cryo Blast, Combat Drone, Sentry Turret, Fitness, Tech Mastery. 

 

For this example, we'll say we went all Health/Shields for Fitness. Giving us 800/800. Perhaps a Vanguard and Sentinel get 900/900 from their base tree, and a Soldier 1000/1000 (hypothetically).

 

Now, let's say that Combat Drone is a given, due to it being the class' base power. As is Sentry Turret, or whatever they use. A Vanguard would Get Charge + Nova, a Soldier would get Adrenaline Rush + a Carnage/Concussion shot-like detonator, a Biotic would get Singularity + Warp.

 

Now, let's say a Engineer, by their nature, being tech-savvy, gets two Tier 2 skills. They can choose from Shield Drain, Overload, Incinerate Defense Matrix/Shield Boost, a Tech Mine.

 

Let's say an Infiltrator can have one of those abilities, because they're less tech-savvy.

 

On paper, an Engineer, specced for Tech damage seems like a force to be reckoned with. But what if the Infiltrator took an alternate approach to Sniper Rifle + Overload/Shield Drain. What if they went with Incinerate for Armor, and took something like a Hurricane/Tempest? Then they could cloak, run up, fire with massive bonus damage on an enemy, use their relatively low cooldown time to fire off their Incinerate, and use a squadmate to detonate it.

 

Not a flawless system by any means. Nor one I've thought out extensively. What it does do is allow for even more alternate playstyles, weapon selections etc. I really wouldn't like to see the old system scrapped at all. would like to see it expanded upon. The flaws in the system are balancing it out, and the possible lack of differentiation between classes. On one hand it allows for a lot of different MC builds. On the other hand, if there's one or two abilities that are above and beyond everything, or if things aren't balanced, then all of a sudden every Sentinel, Engineer and Infiltrator will all be picking the same powers. Though we've had that issue before, with things like Shield Drain, and Reave.

 

I left Sen out of the lineup as you noticed. I'd give that class the most options, letting it choose its second primary ability, between Warp and Overload. That does kind of hobble the class though, which is where I'd seriously need to think about how to balance it out.

[KainD]

I just want to choose every power that I am going to have on my character, as opposed to a bunch of random preset power lists for each class that doesn't even have any synergy. 

 

Would also be nice if I could put together a set of Tech, Biotic, and Combat powers, but I guess that's pushing it. 

[silverserfer28]

Anolog stering,different stering controls for console ie ps4 as i still remember trying to turn a corner in multiplayer for the first time,
maybe a class with no weapon just powers.
anything new is more than welcome bring it ,just bring it.

[Hiemoth]

My hope isn't that the weapon weight, and mod mechanic is scrapped in favor of choosing powers for ones class. My hope is that it's kept, and then, when we start the game, or respec (maybe not even then), we'd be allowed to choose a set number of skills for our class, based on that class.

 

Just as an example. Let's take an Engineer as a Base. In ME3 the Engineer has: Incinerate, Overload, Cryo Blast, Combat Drone, Sentry Turret, Fitness, Tech Mastery. 

 

For this example, we'll say we went all Health/Shields for Fitness. Giving us 800/800. Perhaps a Vanguard and Sentinel get 900/900 from their base tree, and a Soldier 1000/1000 (hypothetically).

 

Now, let's say that Combat Drone is a given, due to it being the class' base power. As is Sentry Turret, or whatever they use. A Vanguard would Get Charge + Nova, a Soldier would get Adrenaline Rush + a Carnage/Concussion shot-like detonator, a Biotic would get Singularity + Warp.

 

Now, let's say a Engineer, by their nature, being tech-savvy, gets two Tier 2 skills. They can choose from Shield Drain, Overload, Incinerate Defense Matrix/Shield Boost, a Tech Mine.

 

Let's say an Infiltrator can have one of those abilities, because they're less tech-savvy.

 

On paper, an Engineer, specced for Tech damage seems like a force to be reckoned with. But what if the Infiltrator took an alternate approach to Sniper Rifle + Overload/Shield Drain. What if they went with Incinerate for Armor, and took something like a Hurricane/Tempest? Then they could cloak, run up, fire with massive bonus damage on an enemy, use their relatively low cooldown time to fire off their Incinerate, and use a squadmate to detonate it.

 

Not a flawless system by any means. Nor one I've thought out extensively. What it does do is allow for even more alternate playstyles, weapon selections etc. I really wouldn't like to see the old system scrapped at all. would like to see it expanded upon. The flaws in the system are balancing it out, and the possible lack of differentiation between classes. On one hand it allows for a lot of different MC builds. On the other hand, if there's one or two abilities that are above and beyond everything, or if things aren't balanced, then all of a sudden every Sentinel, Engineer and Infiltrator will all be picking the same powers. Though we've had that issue before, with things like Shield Drain, and Reave.

 

I left Sen out of the lineup as you noticed. I'd give that class the most options, letting it choose its second primary ability, between Warp and Overload. That does kind of hobble the class though, which is where I'd seriously need to think about how to balance it out.

 

But isn't this kind of what ME1 system went for? And didn't it kind of blend all the classes together?

 

This isn't to say that you shouldn't ask for this system nor is it about mocking it in anyway, it just doesn't sound like a system I'd prefer over the current one. The difficulty I see with this is that in order to get the classes to feel truly separate, they had to approach it holistically and think how all those powers work together. That for example shifted the Vanguard from being a pistol soldier with a barrier in to a truly unique playing experience and all of those skills fed together.

 

So while it is correct that the system you are proposing would, by its very nature, increase the amount of nominal builds, to me it would also remove the possibility of truly having something like Vanguard class as it is in ME2/3, because all those options need to be as valid for the character build in order for it be good game design. Thus Vanguards would again be reduced to second-rate Adepts who die soon because they basically have no supporting talents for their main skill.

[NextGenCowboy]

Charge + Nova gives the player an out regardless. The only class that would ever not have an out, is a Soldier who ran out of ammo, or a really poorly built Sen on Insanity. Which isn't really all that different from a poorly built Sen on Insanity in ME1 really.

 

The preset lists prevents the power abuse of choosing any power. Otherwise anyone could choose Warp + Throw, or Overload + Incinerate, and still have their base build to augment it. That works for Adepts and Engineers, because, even though they have big detonations and Combat Drones, they don't get massive weapon damage boosts in their base skillset.

 

Being able to choose Explosive Ammo + Overload + Incinerate + Tactical Cloak with Weapon Damage +50% from armor pieces, just makes for a completely broken class. My goal is to offer player freedom, while mitigating how overpowered combos can be abused.

 

Yes, a Vanguard with Pull + Throw, or Pull + Reave (which is available in ME3) does end up worse at biotic explosions without a Warp user around, but they shouldn't be as good as an Adept with Singularity + Warp, that's the point, they get Charge and Nova, in addition to more weight to put towards weapons to counteract the fact that they're worse at biotics.

 

Let's say for example we have a Vanguard. They can take 2 of the following, Pull, Throw, or Reave, Shockwave That automatically gives them a detonator, and a primer. Both for themselves, and their teammates to use. They still have Charge + Nova if they don't want to sit back and play as a sub-optimal adept, but they have a built-in combo too.

 

Pull + Throw creates the bigger explosion, but doesn't work on enemies with protection, and throw can only be used to detonate, pull only to prime.

 

Reave offers an option against enemies with defenses, and can set up a throw combo, but has the longest cooldown time, and the smallest AoE (it doesn't, but let's say it does here).

 

Reave + Pull doesn't work on protected targets, creates the smallest explosion, but gives you an option against enemies with physical Shields, and Reave can set up a Charge/Nova combo, sacrificing cooldown time, for a primer on protected targets and AoE.

 

As it stands, the only difference between that Vanguard, and ME3's Vanguard is that Reave is a bonus Power, and I traded Shockwave out for Throw. It's not like it turned the Vanguard into ME1's version, which literally was just a weaker Adept with the ability to reset its cooldowns and a shotgun. It's the exact same class, except now you can sit back without having to take Reave as a bonus power, just replacing Shockwave with it. Then you can charge in when you've picked the group of husks (or their counterpart in this game) off, to start shotgunning/novaguarding/whatever, the big enemies.

 

Edit: You can actually come pretty close to that Infiltrator build in ME3. Replacing Overload with Shield Drain and Incendiary Ammo for Disrupter Ammo. Add in a shotgun (Spike Thrower to break Shield Gate), the Paladin, or Black Widow/Javelin/Widow for max brokenness.