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[In Exile]

[Double post]

[In Exile]

Well it did end fast enough. Besides, the Reapers cannot be beaten conventionally anyways. If the crucible is the only hope for victory it would make more sense to get the help from the race with the scientists and the resources, the Salarians. There are good reasons for both options, idiotic is to dismiss those for the unpopular one.

We can't know how fast it'll end. For all we know it will take decades to make the Crucible work. We have to survive long enough if the reapers attack. As I said in my last post: the reapers have endless ground numbers. Look at Earth: the place was obliterated because the reapers sent ground troops. Without ground troops the reaper capital ships can't do much of anything besides orbitally bombard a planet into oblivion but that goes against their harvest.

[RatThing]

We can't know how fast it'll end. For all we know it will take decades to make the Crucible work. We have to survive long enough if the reapers attack. As I said in my last post: the reapers have endless ground numbers. Look at Earth: the place was obliterated because the reapers sent ground troops. Without ground troops the reaper capital ships can't do much of anything besides orbitally bombard a planet into oblivion but that goes against their harvest.

 

And the more scientists and resources you use for the crucible, the faster it will be ready. It's a trade off. Like I said, there are good reasons for either side. Besides, it will also take decades until the rise in Krogan population will be of any significance. Newborn babies usually don't pop out of their mothers womb with guns in their hands and ready for combat. To even arm them in the first place you'd again need resources and engineers.

[Wulfram]

It's not that simple. Fleets are important, because the reapers are ships, but we live on planets.Look at Thessia or Earth: once reapers put boots on the ground the fleets matter a hell of a lot less. The one difference here is Palaven, and that's because of how the Turians had both material and ground might.

All the Turians do is get their planet trashed and waste massive resources on a hopeless fight that only persists because the Reapers allow it.

(and the one success is achieved not through conventional military means, but via the infiltration and sabotage strategies that the Asari and Salarians specialise in)

An industrial base won't do us much good when the reapers sent unending waves after us.

Which is why we need to fight a short war. Our industrial base, and thus our capacity for effective resistance of any sort, is clearly going to be done in less than a year.

That's why the Geth are so valuable: they can build industrial platforms in areas of space the reapers might not initially think to explore.

The cured krogan breed fast. The Citadel races are dying by the millions each day the reaper genocide goes on. Krogan are brutes - you won't see them manning newly built ships, for example. They aren't scientists. Every turian and human life wasted holding a rilfe is one that isn't researching ways to defeat the reapers or piloting a capital ship.

That's why the krogan matter: as cannon fodder.

But by the time they've grown up, there won't be any guns for them to shoot, or ships to carry them, because the Reapers will have already won that war. And before that generation of Krogan grow up, there simply aren't very many Krogan to serve as cannon fodder. And, as Garrus will tell us, we're not actually short of cannon fodder - after all, the Turians have universal military service. Even from a conventional ground forces perspective, getting the Salarians to produce guns and ammo, and to commit their own forces, would be of more value than a few Krogan who don't even have the ships to transport themselves.

[Steelcan]

We can't know how fast it'll end. For all we know it will take decades to make the Crucible work. We have to survive long enough if the reapers attack. As I said in my last post: the reapers have endless ground numbers. Look at Earth: the place was obliterated because the reapers sent ground troops. Without ground troops the reaper capital ships can't do much of anything besides orbitally bombard a planet into oblivion but that goes against their harvest.

I think its pretty clear that if the war drags on too long its not going to matter how many troops we have.

 

The genophage cure itself won't make a significant impact on the progress of the war, by the time the first generation of krogan born after the cure is trained (let's say 10 years at a minimum) the war will already have been decided one way or another

[Medhia_Nox]

@Steelcan:  Well, in all fairness - the Krogan would never have had to deal with EITHER genocide had it not been for the Salarians.  They were ME's original "primitives" and because of how they were used... they were put into a collision course with the Reapers who would have ignored them this cycle.

 

I highly doubt ME 4 is going to have anything to do with colonizing the planet of sapient primitives. 

[Malanek]

It will be an interesting moral dilemma to have. Hopefully the story does try and examine this aspect without making it too black or white.

[Steelcan]

@Steelcan:  Well, in all fairness - the Krogan would never have had to deal with EITHER genocide had it not been for the Salarians.  They were ME's original "primitives" and because of how they were used... they were put into a collision course with the Reapers who would have ignored them this cycle.

 

I highly doubt ME 4 is going to have anything to do with colonizing the planet of sapient primitives. 

doubtful they'd have been ignored since they were a spacefaring race before their uplift at one point iirc, well they definitely had nukes and advanced astronomy knowledge

[The Elder King]

@Steelcan: Well, in all fairness - the Krogan would never have had to deal with EITHER genocide had it not been for the Salarians. They were ME's original "primitives" and because of how they were used... they were put into a collision course with the Reapers who would have ignored them this cycle.

I highly doubt ME 4 is going to have anything to do with colonizing the planet of sapient primitives.

Do You mean that they wouldn't have been wiped out by the Reapers if the salarians never uplifted them, right?
I'd agree with Steel. They were too advanced before they destroyed Tuchanka with nuclear weapons, I don't think they'd have been spared.

[Natureguy85]

@Steelcan:  Well, in all fairness - the Krogan would never have had to deal with EITHER genocide had it not been for the Salarians.  They were ME's original "primitives" and because of how they were used... they were put into a collision course with the Reapers who would have ignored them this cycle.

 

I highly doubt ME 4 is going to have anything to do with colonizing the planet of sapient primitives. 

 

But could they have defeated the Rachnii without the technology given to them by their uplift? I assume it wasn't just spaceships.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Elder King:  I believe it's a possibility yes.  Specifically because of the fact that they were living in a nuclear winter when uplifted (if memory serves)... there is no logical reason the Reapers would have even discovered Tuchanka with the Krogans being in the position they were in at the time.

 

Of course, it's impossible to know... but the Reapers don't target "civs with some tech" - they target "space faring civilizations who have adopted their tech." and presumably... any other races that get in their way (Rachni) or are put in their way (Krogan).

 

One MUST assume there are the equivalent of "ancient" "medieval" and even "industrial" civilizations that are spared by the Reapers during a culling because they simply aren't even putting out a signal.  One might guess that... for our current story - the Asari, Salarians, Volus and Turians were at just such a stage during the Prothean civilization and that's why they were ahead of us (yes, of course not all civs would advance at the same pace)

 

The Hanar are a great example... they believe the Enkindlers gave them speech... then, the Enkindlers mysteriously vanished, and yet the Hanar remained.

[RatThing]

doubtful they'd have been ignored since they were a spacefaring race before their uplift at one point iirc, well they definitely had nukes and advanced astronomy knowledge

 

I don't think they were a spacefaring race before the uplift, only an industrialized one. Tbh, I too think they would have been overlooked if not uplifted. They were not able to build AI, nor would they be able to learn about the Reapers existence, so why should the Reapers care about them. 

[Steelcan]

I don't think they were a spacefaring race before the uplift, only an industrialized one. Tbh, I too think they would have been overlooked if not uplifted. They were not able to build AI, nor would they be able to learn about the Reapers existence, so why should the Reapers care about them. 

because if they are too advanced in this cycle they might be too powerful come the next one

 

I doubt they'd even set up shop on the Citadel

[The Elder King]

@The Elder King:  I believe it's a possibility yes.  Specifically because of the fact that they were living in a nuclear winter when uplifted (if memory serves)... there is no logical reason the Reapers would have even discovered Tuchanka with the Krogans being in the position they were in at the time.
 
Of course, it's impossible to know... but the Reapers don't target "civs with some tech" - they target "space faring civilizations who have adopted their tech."
 
One MUST assume there are the equivalent of "ancient" "medieval" and even "industrial" civilizations that are spared by the Reapers during a culling because they simply aren't even putting out a signal.  One might guess that... for our current story - the Asari, Salarians, Volus and Turians were at just such a stage during the Prothean civilization and that's why they were ahead of us (yes, of course not all civs would advance at the same pace)

That's a good point. Though I don't know what' have happened with the rachni. They might 've been decimated.

[RatThing]

because if they are too advanced in this cycle they might be too powerful come the next one

 

I doubt they'd even set up shop on the Citadel

 

What about the Yahg then? 

 

"When Parnack was discovered by Citadel Counsil surveyors in 2125 CE, the yahg were a pre-spaceflight civilization with technology equivalent to that of 20th century Earth."

 

"During the Reaper invasion in 2186, Admiral Hackett mentions that the Reapers have avoided the yahg homeworld of Parnack, apparently because the yahg are a pre-spaceflight civilization."    from masseffect.wikia.com

[Steelcan]

What about the Yahg then? 

 

"During the Reaper invasion in 2186, Admiral Hackett mentions that the Reapers have avoided the yahg homeworld of Parnack, apparently because the yahg are a pre-spaceflight civilization."    from masseffect.wikia.com

the Yahg also to my knowledge don't have things like nuclear weapons and advanced astronomical knowledge

[AresKeith]

What about the Yahg then? 

 

"During the Reaper invasion in 2186, Admiral Hackett mentions that the Reapers have avoided the yahg homeworld of Parnack, apparently because the yahg are a pre-spaceflight civilization."    from masseffect.wikia.com

 

The Yahg would probably end up being the most powerful race in the next cycle

[Medhia_Nox]

@AresKeith:  Correct... either the "New Protheans" or the next Asari equivalent.

 

We need to remember that not every cycle is the same.  The Protheans took the whole galaxy as their own for their cycle... they didn't share it with a conglomerate of species. 

 

Perhaps they too had been at a very high - but just low enough - point in their technological development to escape the previous culling and then advanced enough to take the galaxy as their own.

 

The Krogan, if ever, would have (should have?) been an advanced species in the cycle after the Council races.  But thanks to the Salarians they got caught up in this one.

[Malanek]

The Yahg would probably end up being the most powerful race in the next cycle

It's difficult to say for sure because we don't know how fast they were advancing. They may have been at that level for thousands of years without being able to make the interstellar leap. Without finding the prothean cache on mars humans would have taken a lot longer. Was there a relay in the Yahg home system?

[RatThing]

the Yahg also to my knowledge don't have things like nuclear weapons and advanced astronomical knowledge

 

I don't know. The Yahg had a thriving civilization and technology equivalent to 20 century earth plus they already made contact with aliens. It is very likely the already had nukes and astronomical knowledge. The Krogans lived in a primitive state in a nuclear wasteland. Whatever knowledge and technology they had was probably lost. It seems to me the Yahg would be the greater potential threat for the Reapers without the uplift.

[AresKeith]

It's difficult to say for sure because we don't know how fast they were advancing. They may have been at that level for thousands of years without being able to make the interstellar leap. Without finding the prothean cache on mars humans would have taken a lot longer. Was there a relay in the Yahg home system?

 

I'm not sure, it's possible there is one there but turned off(?)

[Medhia_Nox]

We don't know enough about the flux of our own civilization... what would happen to us after a nuclear winter?  We certainly wouldn't be soldiering on with a space program and advanced astronomy. 

 

We'd be a post-apocalyptic wasteland (actually, not a wasteland - flora and fauna deal with radiation much better than we do).  But our civilizations would be in ruin.

 

The Reapers aren't magic... they rely on a very specific system.  That system is the Mass Relays and the Citadel.  You don't use them - they won't know you're around. 

 

And how could they?  Again, they're not magical.  And a galaxy is mind bogglingly huge.  A hundred million Reapers (and there aren't a hundred million) couldn't do the job of just "scanning the galaxy" for planets.

[RatThing]

I'm not sure, it's possible there is one there but turned off(?)

 

Well, somehow the Counsil found the Yahg, so if there isn't a relay in their system there should be one in a system close to theirs. And it wouldn't be turned off anymore.

[AresKeith]

Well, somehow the Counsil found the Yahg, so if there isn't a relay in their system there should be one in a system close to theirs. And it wouldn't be turned off anymore.

 

It's also possible that they found them and then turned it off because they were dangerous

 

Wasn't it said that they trying to send to group to communicate with them but ended poorly?

[RatThing]

It's also possible that they found them and then turned it off because they were dangerous

 

Wasn't it said that they trying to send to group to communicate with them but ended poorly?

 

Yes, they sent a delegation to their homeworld which was slaughtered by the Yahg. After that the Counsil declared Parnack off limits. I din't thing they deactivated the relay though, after all someone smuggled the Shadow Broker off their world and the Salarians also had Yahg test subjects.