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[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I thought we are all moral relativists who believe in evolution.

[Boost32]

Pretty much everything is speculation. The idea that they don't think they are the last of their kind is speculation too.
 
If you dismiss speculation then there really is very little to talk about as we've only seen 4 potential environments (might not even make into final version), plus a masked character, and that's pretty much it besides what we care to speculate.

I'm not dismissing, just saying its not confirmed or anything.

[MattFini]

If allowed, I'll genocide everything in Andromeda. 

[MaxQuartiroli]

Maybe we'll find a galaxy where a race is wiping out some other race, bringing it on the verge of the extinction.

Then we could save them from the "bad guys" and, as a token of esteem and gratitude, they will share with us their planets which are almost deserted and half destroyed allowing us to set up our civilization there, so that we could help them in winning the war rebuild their civilization, find new resources, new planets and so on.

 

Here is your setup for being the "good guys" also this time.

[Shermos]

If an entire habitable planet is unclaimed, unprotected and unpopulated, then all bets are off, IMO. This game is clearly not about a bunch of people from earth marching in and taking someone's planet. This is about a group of survivors that, for all they know, are the last of their respective kinds searching for a new home. I fail to see how this makes anyone a bad guy.

 

The leak makes it appear the Keth do claim the cluster the game is supposed to take place in. They would have a right to argue their claim is more legitimate, since they got to it first, and it is their native galaxy. The arrivals from the Milky Way don't have to agree with this argument, but they do have to respect it. 

[MaxQuartiroli]

At any rate.. I suppose that technically we could also be considered refugees rather than invaders.

[X Equestris]

The leak makes it appear the Keth do claim the cluster the game is supposed to take place in. They would have a right to argue their claim is more legitimate, since they got to it first, and it is their native galaxy. The arrivals from the Milky Way don't have to agree with this argument, but they do have to respect it.

You can make claims, but you need the strength to enforce those claims when you're on the international scale like this. For example, Taiwan still lays claim to all of mainland China. I don't think anyone is under the delusion that it could make good on those claims. I mean, you could have a species based on a supremacist ideology that claims the entire universe belongs to it, and everyone else is lesser. That doesn't mean they're right.

[Seboist]

Maybe we'll find a galaxy where a race is wiping out some other race, bringing it on the verge of the extinction.

Then we could save them from the "bad guys" and, as a token of esteem and gratitude, they will share with us their planets which are almost deserted and half destroyed allowing us to set up our civilization there, so that we could help them in winning the war rebuild their civilization, find new resources, new planets and so on.

 

Here is your setup for being the "good guys" also this time.

 

In that scenario I'd prefer for said almost deserted and half destroyed worlds to be ceded and granted full human sovereignty, with any remaining members of the weak alien race relocated to other worlds where we don't claim as human territory. Their remaining worlds will be granted protectorate status and defended from any hostile races.

 

Otherwise, valuable human lives shouldn't be wasted in intervening in inter-alien squabbles. 

[Shermos]

You can make claims, but you need the strength to enforce those claims when you're on the international scale like this. For example, Taiwan still lays claim to all of mainland China. I don't think anyone is under the delusion that it could make good on those claims. I mean, you could have a species based on a supremacist ideology that claims the entire universe belongs to it, and everyone else is lesser. That doesn't mean they're right.

 

There are already posts in this topic about how stupid it would be to make the Keth comic book space Nazis. The ME universe doesn't need any more immaturity like we saw with the presentation of the Batarians and Cerberus circa ME3. As for mainland China and Taiwan, that's not a good comparison. It's basically an argument over two different interpretations over how (and by whom) China should be run.

[X Equestris]

There are already posts in this topic about how stupid it would be to make the Keth comic book space Nazis. The ME universe doesn't need any more immaturity like we saw with the presentation of the Batarians and Cerberus circa ME3. As for mainland China and Taiwan, that's not a good comparison. It's basically an argument over two different interpretations over how (and by whom) China should be run.

If the Keth want to claim territory, they had best be able to back up their claim with something more than "We say so." Especially if they're only expanding into the cluster at the same time we are.

And my example was meant to show how someone saying they have a claim to something means very little. I'm not calling for our antagonists to have supremacist motivations. Same with the China and Taiwan comparison.

The legitimacy of any claim can only be upheld by force. If the Keth are too weak to maintain patrols through the areas of space they claim but haven't yet colonized, they don't have much of a claim.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I thought we are all moral relativists who believe in evolution.

I'm a moral skeptic who holds no beliefs he can avoid.

[Shermos]

If the Keth want to claim territory, they had best be able to back up their claim with something more than "We say so." Especially if they're only expanding into the cluster at the same time we are.

And my example was meant to show how someone saying they have a claim to something means very little. I'm not calling for our antagonists to have supremacist motivations. Same with the China and Taiwan comparison.

The legitimacy of any claim can only be upheld by force. If the Keth are too weak to maintain patrols through the areas of space they claim but haven't yet colonized, they don't have much of a claim.

 

One would imagine they do have patrols in the cluster, otherwise they wouldn't be aware of the newcomer's competing claim, as the leak implies. We'll have to wait and see, but what we have so far isn't hopeful. 

[azarhal]

One would imagine they do have patrols in the cluster, otherwise they wouldn't be aware of the newcomer's competing claim, as the leak implies. We'll have to wait and see, but what we have so far isn't hopeful. 

 

The leak say they have outposts that can be attacked to remove the Khet presence in the region. That's a military presence, if not an attempt at colonization.

 

I said it in the first page and I'm going to said it again, BioWare is going to make Humanity righteous in its invasion of Andromeda because we are the greatest species in the whole galaxy.

[The Night Haunter]

The leak say they have outposts that can be attacked to remove the Khet presence in the region. That's a military presence, if not an attempt at colonization.

 

I said it in the first page and I'm going to said it again, BioWare is going to make Humanity righteous in its invasion of Andromeda because we are the greatest species in the whole galaxy.

Way to jump to conclusions. It is entirely possible that you are correct, it is also equally possible that the Khet are pirates, interested only in raiding and not in peaceful contact who attack humanity with no cause. 

 

They could also be:

-Space Nazi's!!!

-Evil organic hating AIs

-In the middle of a civil war, in which we ally with the friendly side (a la Geth)

-Peace loving hippies who we brutally slaughter for lulz

 

At this point in time you can't really draw any conclusions about anything, except that somehow humanity comes into conflict with at least part of Khet society.

[darkiddd]

The Khet will possibly be space nazis. If they were not then they would be on the same moral ground than we are and shooting at them wouldn't be as epic and righteous for the player. It would make us just another colonizing power fighting against other colonizing powers but to hide this truth Bioware will make a really really evil faction so that we may feel better being a little less imperialistic than them while we fight them.

[Master Warder Z_]

*snorts*

Folks act like being imperialist space conquerors is a bad thing.

[Ahriman]

*snorts*

Folks act like being imperialist space conquerors is a bad thing.

That's certainly not, unless writers try to hide it with clunky plot-fences.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's certainly not, unless writers try to hide it with clunky plot-fences.

Honestly the fact people are even groaning about possibly going to war over territory is revealing.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Master Warder Z_: What is it revealing to you? 

[azarhal]

Way to jump to conclusions. It is entirely possible that you are correct, it is also equally possible that the Khet are pirates, interested only in raiding and not in peaceful contact who attack humanity with no cause. 

 

How does them being pirates change anything exactly? They were there first, that's all that matters to invade someone...and they are totally in their right to fight back any invasion as they see fit.

[Medhia_Nox]

@azarhal:  One would assume pirates don't have women, children, elderly, colonies, libraries, temples, city halls... in other words... places for people who aren't psychopathic murderers like our PC might be. 

[The Night Haunter]

How does them being pirates change anything exactly? They were there first, that's all that matters to invade someone...and they are totally in their right to fight back any invasion as they see fit.

Who said we are invading? 

 

Scenario:

We settle a completely uninhabited planet. Surprise, there are some millenia old ruins there, we investigate and activate something, sending out a signal into space.

The Khet are opportunistic, ruthless, pirates who know the value of ancient tech. They have no claim to the planet (other than the absurd proximity claim), but they don't care. They launch an attack on the fledgling human colony, murdering women and children and stealing some of the ancient tech.

In order to prevent future attacks the humans locate and destroy a Khet base.

Both for retaliation and the promise of loot (booty, as Adam Savage would say), other Khet factions come to the area to hunt for relics and to destroy whatever humans they find.

 

 

How exactly are they justified in their actions there? How are the humans not justified in engaging in preventative action against the Khet?

 

 

Just because they were in the galaxy first, or even the cluster first, doesn't mean they somehow have dibs on everything on the map.

[X Equestris]

How does them being pirates change anything exactly? They were there first, that's all that matters to invade someone...and they are totally in their right to fight back any invasion as they see fit.

They supposedly aren't even native to the cluster. If parts of it are entirely unsettled, and we settle in those areas, are they still in the right?

[Master Warder Z_]

@Master Warder Z_: What is it revealing to you?

That they don't have the right attitude towards war.

Its a horrible thing, until it isn't.

Sometimes its just needed.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Master Warder Z_:  And who gets to decide when it is "just needed"? 

 

And because something is needed - does not suddenly make it "not horrible".  Coming to that conclusion is simply a psychological coping mechanism... not unlike dehumanizing your opponent.  No matter how much you lie to yourself... your opponent will always be human (in the real world), but you can lie to yourself and you will eventually believe the delusion that your opponent is "less human" and therefor easier to kill.

 

I would suggest it's still horrible, the person just now believes a lie that helps them cope.