606 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

I wonder How people would react if the MW species will take an 'Us vs them' mentality in Andromeda, meaning they'd look over their differences and rivalries and act as an united front.
I do think that in the early stages in Andromeda they'd have tight alliances anyway, by I wonder if it'd last.

[Sartoz]

*snorts*

The Turians probably thought that up until the second fleet cut their occupation to ribbons.

That was Humanity in its infancy; now? If pushed Humanity can push even harder.

I'm not arguing for some delusional campaign of Genocide, I'm arguing that militarism against aliens should be seen as a viable diplomatic option..
Don't see why they'd need to wait for the aliens to attack them.

Preemptive strikes are one thing the salarians have right.

                                                                         <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

A Wild West scenario implies lawlessness and a grab what you can while you can period.  On the other hand, from the leaked poll questions:

 

During this fairly weighty task, you will explore a "sprawling series of solar systems" over four times the size of those found in Mass Effect 3. Along the way, you'll need to collect resources and build colonies while facing "cut-throat outlaws" and hostile alien races. You'll also discover the remains of the Remnant, a mysterious alien race whose technology "holds the key to gaining power in this region of the galaxy". This discovery will draw you into a "violent race" to the source of this technology, and as you explore the Helius Cluster, you'll discover blueprints which will allow you to craft better weapons and equipment.

 

Fighting hostile aliens does not mean we are at war with them. Especially, in the above scenario. At least, that's my take on it. One thing I don't like is the use of the word CRAFT.  If there must be crafting, I'd like my scientists to inform me what is available then I just choose. If I'm forced to explore and find resources for a weapon I will scream bloody murder!  I'm the leader of this expedition and have scouts and AI agents to do the mundane tasks.

 

I really like to have a C&C room with my team giving me a SITREP. Then I can make decisions and send the right teams for the job, assign priorities to research, mining, exploration, colony expansion or spying missions. When fighting is necessary, I can then mount my reliable steed of a ship and go forth to battle or to a diplomatic mission or possibly recruit alien(s) for my team.

[DarthLaxian]

 

 

CARING ABOUT PRIMITIVES!?

 

Indeed - call me callous, but the one who attacks first is guilty of starting a war, no matter the "claim" someone supposedly had on a strip of land (or even a planet) and:

 

If they really are primitive (if not in the technology they use then maybe in their thinking...after all: a star empire that has values like say the ancient roman empire on earth is more primitive than we are IMHO (despite them having interstellar ships etc.)), it's up to us to educate them (hell: I don't know why we protect primitive tribes here on earth - I mean, wouldn't they be better of if they had civilization? (longer lifespans, better health, education, a job, food being available without having to hunt it first etc.))

 

greetings LAX

[CrutchCricket]

We need to liberate the planets we go to and spread space democracy. Our gunpoints offer 37.6% more freedom.

[Sylvius the Mad]

@Master Warder Z_: And who gets to decide when it is "just needed"?

And because something is needed - does not suddenly make it "not horrible". Coming to that conclusion is simply a psychological coping mechanism... not unlike dehumanizing your opponent. No matter how much you lie to yourself... your opponent will always be human (in the real world), but you can lie to yourself and you will eventually believe the delusion that your opponent is "less human" and therefor easier to kill.

I would suggest it's still horrible, the person just now believes a lie that helps them cope.

It's no more a lie than is the result of any other arbitrary definition.

[X Equestris]

They are native to the Andromeda galaxy and have probably been in the cluster a lot longer than any Milky Way colonists have been.

What your are trying to do is say that the Spanish, British and French colonists army were in their right to take over the Americas because only a few pieces of the land had Amerindians on it (who technically were not native either because they immigrated a few millennium ago).

And they can keep their parts of the cluster for all I care. That doesn't mean they control the whole thing. Surely there's enough room for colonists to settle without much issue.

Edit: And I would compare the Khet versus Milky Way colonists to conflict between the British and the French in their expansion in North America.

[N7Jamaican]

Yes, we're bad guys because we're invading the Andromeda galaxy.  Some could look at it like that...

[pdusen]

Yes, we're bad guys because we're invading the Andromeda galaxy.  Some could look at it like that...

 

"Invasion" implies "taking from others by force." We have no evidence yet that we're doing anything like that.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Sylvius the Mad:  Did you think I would disagree? 

 

I responded in my next reply that while I don't agree with Master Warder Z's truth, I respect that it comes from an entirely different perspective than my own.

That I believe it to be wrong is relevant only to myself and anyone else who makes it relevant. 

 

====

 

As for ME:A - if the game is about invasion, I will likely pass on it.  I don't need to discuss whether it's viable for humanity, even a humanity on the brink of extinction, to force someone else into extinction.  I already know the answer for myself - as you say, a man who understands his own morality does not have a difficult decision to make.

 

My morality would dictate that all things die - and if I am to die, even as a character, I would prefer to do so in the manner which I believe gives me dignity over mere survival.

 

I've played such characters before - I'm not opposed to it.  However, I would not want to invest in three whole games (supposing a trilogy) for upwards to $180.00 in the next 15 years wherein I play an aggressor species wiping out indigenous peoples.  It's not a story I find compelling and it is simply predicated by my own personal moral philosophy - what others do, I neither greatly care nor have any control over.

[Sylvius the Mad]

@Sylvius the Mad: Did you think I would disagree?

I responded in my next reply that while I don't agree with Master Warder Z's truth, I respect that it comes from an entirely different perspective than my own.
That I believe it to be wrong is relevant only to myself and anyone else who makes it relevant.

That is a sensible position.

I maintain that all possible moral stances have roughly equivalent basis in reason, so I can't criticise one except using its own standards (I'll criticise incoherence, not content).

[Steelcan]

We must conquer the new Galaxy. Pastor Vult!

[Iakus]

We must conquer the new Galaxy. Pastor Vult!

The Shepherd Wills It?  

 

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

[Dark Helmet]

*snorts*

The Turians probably thought that up until the second fleet cut their occupation to ribbons.

That was Humanity in its infancy; now? If pushed Humanity can push even harder.

I'm not arguing for some delusional campaign of Genocide, I'm arguing that militarism against aliens should be seen as a viable diplomatic option..
Don't see why they'd need to wait for the aliens to attack them.

Preemptive strikes are one thing the salarians have right.

 

Of course those aliens should always be given the opportunity to submit of their own accord.

 

I'm sure many of them would appreciate being a part of the New Empire.

[shodiswe]

There has also been a lot of speculation on wether the species of Andromeda are more advanced or less.

It would be more feasible to survive if the inhabitants are less advanced if they outnumber you a thousand to one or even more. They would still Zerg you.

Then it could be the case that you decide to improve you technological advantage by salvaging whatever new Tech they might have developed on their own, along with Tech from the Remnants.

It could be that there is a Taboo on touch those Remnant ruins among the species or most of the species of Andromeda. It could also be how the colonists sparks the war, they intrude on what some of the natives consider holy ground and accesses the forbidden technology.

They attack, and there you have it. Fight for your survival, try to convince people you arn't the bad guys while that crusade is trying to destroy you.
At the same time you desperately need every advantage to survive and the Remnant Tech salvage is the obvious path to Tech and Resources for a worn out band of settlers.

[Mistic]

It could be that there is a Taboo on touch those Remnant ruins among the species or most of the species of Andromeda. It could also be how the colonists sparks the war, they intrude on what some of the natives consider holy ground and accesses the forbidden technology.

They attack, and there you have it. Fight for your survival, try to convince people you arn't the bad guys while that crusade is trying to destroy you.

 

Don't forget the convenient "and then there's a bigger menace that wants to destroy everything in Andromeda, so locals and newcomers have to band together to oppose it" plot. I mean, this is Starcraft all over again. Most planets were devoid of intelligent life when the Terrans came and founded their first colonies, but when they made first contact with Zerg and Protoss things got interesting.

[Master Warder Z_]

*snorts* Numbers alone mean little if you have superior positioning, logistics and tech.

I know its supposedly taboo to mention Vietnam but its a decent comparison.

At the end of the day you had what? A little under sixty thousand american casualties after a decade and on the other end?

A million and change.

It really goes to show just what dictation of the field allows.

Numbers by themselves are meaningless.

[Seboist]

I seem to recall us spending a good bit of time in the forties fighting a war specifically to oppose that kind of mentality.

 

I seem to recall said actors "fighting against that mentality" having colonial empires spanning the entire globe.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The Shepherd Wills It?  

 

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

 

Suits my control ending just fine.

[Seboist]

*snorts*

I do obviously.

My own kind obviously take priority over that of a differing species.

Humanity's prosperity, survival and dominance concern me far more then that of anything else when it comes to interaction with alien species.

So by default human life warrants more worth.

 

This is the proper attitude to have. If we don't look after our own, then nobody will. If aliens aren't beneficial to that, then they need to keep out of our way or be put to the torch.

 

I had no qualms with placing races in the original trilogy whom threatened human interests to the dust bin of history like the krogan, geth and rachni or turning the reapers into a human client race at the end.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

This is the proper attitude to have. If we don't look after our own, then nobody will. If aliens aren't beneficial to that, then they need to keep out of our way or be put to the torch.

 

I had no qualms with placing races in the original trilogy whom threatened human interests to the dust bin of history like the krogan, geth and rachni or turning the reapers into a human client race at the end.

 

Indeed, the alternative would be to celebrate collaborator crap like "Unification Day".

[The Heretic of Time]

Indeed, the alternative would be to celebrate collaborator crap like "Unification Day".

 
Indeed. When it comes to dealing with alien life, no matter how humane they look, they're not humans. Aliens that are indeed completely alien would be pretty scary and reason enough to be cautious. We could not trust such an alien spieces. But if we meet aliens that are exactly like us we will have even more reason to be scared.

Humans kill other species all the time, even those with which we share the common bond of high intelligence. Right now, hundreds of dolphins are being killed by tuna fishermen and drift netters. The killing goes on and on, and dolphins are not even a threat to us. We aren't above killing our own species either. Thousands of humans get killed by other humans on a daily basis for different kinds of reasons, not all of them good reasons.
 
So once we admit that aliens will not necessarily be nice to one another simply by virtue of being intelligent and having survived long enough to leave the boundaries of their solar system, then you open up this whole nightmare of relativistic civilizations exterminating one another.
 
Basically, we're gonna have to ensure our survival and be ready and willing to kill or even exterminate other alien species because otherwise they will exterminate us. The choices seem unforgiving, but we can't afford to be proven wrong.
 
Got that? We can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
 
Aliens won't come to get our resources or our knowledge or our women or even because they're just mean and want power over us. They'll come to destroy us to insure their survival, even if we're no apparent threat, because they too will realize that humanity is potentially dangerous and they too cannot wait to be proven wrong.

 

 

Consider this:

 

Imagine yourself taking a stroll through the park late at night. It would be nice to meet someone friendly, but you know that the park is dangerous at night. There's always a strong undercurrent of drug dealings, muggings, and occasional homicides.

It is not easy to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. They dress alike, and their weapons are concealed. The only difference is intent, and you can't read minds.

 

Stay in the dark long enough and you may hear an occasional distance shriek or blunder across a body.

 

How do you survive the night? The last thing you want to do is shout, "I'm here!" The next to last thing you want to do is reply to someone who shouts, "I'm a friend!"

What you would like to do is find a policeman, or get out of the park. But you don't want to make noise or move towards a light where you might be spotted, and it is difficult to find either a policeman or your way out without making yourself known. Your safest option is to hunker down and wait for daylight, then safely walk out.

 

There are, of course, a few obvious differences between a walk in the park and outer space.

 

In space there is no policeman.

 

In space there is no way out.

 

And in space the night never ends...

[Master Warder Z_]

I really wish they had done a ME prequel based on the first contact war...the Comics, Games and Books made Shanxi out to be a decent slug fest.

[The Elder King]

I really wish they had done a ME prequel based on the first contact war...the Comics, Games and Books made Shanxi out to be a decent slug fest.

I'm glad They didn't, Though it isn't because we'd fight and kill Turians.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm glad They didn't, Though it isn't because we'd fight and kill Turians.

Because its narrative would be based entirely around a single focal point? In this case the battle of Shanxi?

[The Elder King]

Because its narrative would be based entirely around a single focal point? In this case the battle of Shanxi?

One of the reasons, yes. Plus the fact that we know too much about the event. I'm not generally fond of prequels, but if they'd do one I'd prefer one where we don't have many info on the major plot.