606 réponses à ce sujet

[Simfam]

Good.

 

'bout damn time we aren't messiahs or whatever.

[Medhia_Nox]

@dragonflight288:  You had me until you started talking "epic". 

 

An ME trilogy about your first few paragraphs would be so much better than the Reaper storyline. 

 

This story could suffice man vs. nature, self AND other... (we really only get "man vs other" in our "epic" cRPGs) - I am hoping Bioware crafts a story of "struggle" and not of "badassery".

 

I actually believe they were trying to make ME 1-3 about struggle... but "entertainment" got in the way big time and we needed giant space cuttlefish and 'splosions. 

 

Yes, we need bad guys, fighting and 'splosions... but we need better storytelling more than anything (and Summer Blockbuster is not better storytelling).

[Laughing_Man]

...but we need better storytelling more than anything

 

On that, we can agree.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I was thinking more along the lines of the antagonists not being lawful evil baddies deserving of being gunned down in the hundreds, but having some sympathetic traits.

I'd like the option to make the protagonist lawful evil to advance his own goals.

[Former_Fiend]

We also could be the civilization that saves the natives from the Reaper threat in Andromeda.

 

Somehow, I find this idea to be worse. 

 

Ignoring for a moment that the Reapers probably won't show up, the idea of us coming in and saving the natives from some other grand threat reeks of "mighty whitey" to me. 

[In Exile]

It matters because however one slices it, it's still the genophage. While this ultimately comes down to Mordin/Padok being at fault for even presenting the prospect of a full cure in the first place, it's also possible that without this carrot, the Urdnot clan leader would probably not even entertain the idea of helping the turians while the reapers are trying to choke out whatever remains of Tuchanka's ecology. Of course, the sensible option on the part of the salarians would be to simply have a placebo and tell them it's the cure. The krogan will be too preoccupied fighting reapers to really know the difference until it's too late anyway.

I've been replaying ME. When you listen to ME1 Wrex talk about the krogan absolutely nothing he says will suggest they'd ever change.

But here's what I think is stupid about not curing the genophage: it's idiotic to think the reaper war will end fast enough to have the krogan reproduction rate be an issue for the Citadel races rather than for the reapers.

Krogan are incredible footsoldiers and we need them. We might need them for centuries.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Inb4 SJWs to label Mass Effect Andromeda as a game that promotes Western imperialism.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

@In Exile:  To expand upon your argument - I believe we're told that previous Reaper incursions took centuries for the Reapers to clean a galaxy of sapient life.  So, Krogan breeding practices would be useful there.

 

Of course, I get irritated when Bioware talks about Darkspawn wars that engulf the world... and Reaper cleansings that take centuries... and our own games take (1 year) - but, the explanation works for your argument I believe.

 

Of course, I cure the genophage because I believe that scientists should get what they deserve.  The Salarians upjumped a race that should never have been allowed to escape their orbit... I'm a huge fan of dumb science biting dumber scientists in the ass.  But all that is beside the point.

 

@Habits Honeypot:  A bit late for that I believe.  Beside - in our modern world all humans are a plague... not just Europeans. 

[Natureguy85]

@Natureguy85:  Well, our own race can't co-habitate with different ideologies.  It hasn't changed is thousands of years... if you think it's going to change in a few hundred more, I have bad news. 

 

The Council races especially are very "human-like" in their actions... while the more peaceful races (Volus, Elcor and Hanar) who are not would be bowled over by the constant aggressive natures of the former. 

 

Dividing civilizations by planets is one of the very few smart things that Council does.  

 

Sure we can, and we do for the most part, even when we really, really don't like each other. Of course there will always be those who act aggressively, but most people live peacefully, at least in the West.

[In Exile]

@In Exile:  To expand upon your argument - I believe we're told that previous Reaper incursions took centuries for the Reapers to clean a galaxy of sapient life.  So, Krogan breeding practices would be useful there.

 

Of course, I get irritated when Bioware talks about Darkspawn wars that engulf the world... and Reaper cleansings that take centuries... and our own games take (1 year) - but, the explanation works for your argument I believe.

 

Of course, I cure the genophage because I believe that scientists should get what they deserve.  The Salarians upjumped a race that should never have been allowed to escape their orbit... I'm a huge fan of dumb science biting dumber scientists in the ass.  But all that is beside the point.

 

@Habits Honeypot:  A bit late for that I believe.  Beside - in our modern world all humans are a plague... not just Europeans. 

 

Yes, it's the centuries-long genocide lore that I had in mind when thinking about the krogan. The thing with the time-scale in ME3 is that, despite Bioware's generally failing to convey this on the pure paragon path, the Council races were basically SOL once the reapers hit, and the whole genocide was inevitable. 

 

On the upjumped point, I can't agree. One, it's only the salarians and asari that would share that blame, not the numerous other Council races that would suffer. Two, it's not even most asari or salarians that were implicated in that decision. Three, I suppose I just hate how much ME3 abandoned the idea of Wrex leading a reform while the genophage very, very slowly was phased out of the krogan biology anyway.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, it's still the Genophage, but if even Wrex the Krogan Jesus can't understand / don't care about what are the effects of hundreds of cubs in every birth, and the inevitability of yet ANOTHER war within a few generations, then the whole "reforming the Krogan" idea is doomed anyway.

 

So, if the choice is lie to the Krogan entirely, or provide a partial "cure" and give them a chance for an actual reform, I would choose the latter.

 

Well, like I said, it really comes down to Mordin/Padok. What he offers the Urdnot clan leader is the deal and there's no way to negotiate out of it, because there's no viable alternatives to offer. So you either go along with that deal, or you lie. 

 

At any rate, I think the issue of future krogan rebellion is hugely overblown, and the Dalatrass is an obnoxious dillhole that lacks perspective. Whatever risk the krogan may present despite living in planet of irradiated rubble with no infrastructure of their own to build a spacefaring fleet for their warlords to spread across the galaxy is absolutely nothing compared to a protracted battle, which is currently underway, with thousands of sentient warships that can each tirelessly fight off an entire fleet by their lonesome.

[In Exile]

Well, like I said, it really comes down to Mordin/Padok. What he offers the Urdnot clan leader is the deal and there's no way to negotiate out of it, because there's no viable alternatives to offer. So you either go along with that deal, or you lie.

At any rate, I think the issue of future krogan rebellion is hugely overblown, and the Dalatrass is an obnoxious dillhole that lacks perspective. Whatever risk the krogan may present despite living in planet of irradiated rubble with no infrastructure of their own to build a spacefaring fleet for their warlords to spread across the galaxy is absolutely nothing compared to a protracted battle, which is currently underway, with thousands of sentient warships that can each tirelessly fight off an entire fleet by their lonesome.

That's the thing that's silly about the offer once you ignore how insane and pro-genocide she's being: salarian fleets are worth less to us right now that shock troops, since the reapers have their own and they use our tortured dead to make them.

[Natureguy85]

Yes, it's the centuries-long genocide lore that I had in mind when thinking about the krogan. The thing with the time-scale in ME3 is that, despite Bioware's generally failing to convey this on the pure paragon path, the Council races were basically SOL once the reapers hit, and the whole genocide was inevitable. 

 

On the upjumped point, I can't agree. One, it's only the salarians and asari that would share that blame, not the numerous other Council races that would suffer. Two, it's not even most asari or salarians that were implicated in that decision. Three, I suppose I just hate how much ME3 abandoned the idea of Wrex leading a reform while the genophage very, very slowly was phased out of the krogan biology anyway.

 

The other thing on uplifting the Krogan was that they were desperate for a way to combat the Rachnii. They weren't doing it "For science!" or carelessly.

 

I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, I agree that the "cure the genophage" plot does undermine what Wrex was doing in ME2, though after Mordin's loyalty mission, we knew it was coming.

 

 

 

Well, like I said, it really comes down to Mordin/Padok. What he offers the Urdnot clan leader is the deal and there's no way to negotiate out of it, because there's no viable alternatives to offer. So you either go along with that deal, or you lie. 

 

At any rate, I think the issue of future krogan rebellion is hugely overblown, and the Dalatrass is an obnoxious dillhole that lacks perspective. Whatever risk the krogan may present despite living in planet of irradiated rubble with no infrastructure of their own to build a spacefaring fleet for their warlords to spread across the galaxy is absolutely nothing compared to a protracted battle, which is currently underway, with thousands of sentient warships that can each tirelessly fight off an entire fleet by their lonesome.

 

I agree, but the great part about it is that it's the same situation under which the Krogan were uplifted in the first place.

 

That's the thing that's silly about the offer once you ignore how insane and pro-genocide she's being: salarian fleets are worth less to us right now that shock troops, since the reapers have their own and they use our tortured dead to make them.

 

What bothered me was that I got Salarian support later anyway, though perhaps it's less than I would have gotten. Still, the game gave you way more War Assets than you needed, especially considering it was just a score and it didn't matter which types you had.

[KaiserShep]

The thing about Wrex's plan in ME2 is that it only really works during peacetime. The cure the genophage plot is tied inextricably to the reaper war. If destroying Sovereign ended the reaper threat indefinitely, it wouldn't even be an issue. The krogan would always be rather down on themselves because of it, but they'd just endure through it.

[Wulfram]

That's the thing that's silly about the offer once you ignore how insane and pro-genocide she's being: salarian fleets are worth less to us right now that shock troops, since the reapers have their own and they use our tortured dead to make them.

 

The game tries to convince us of this, but it makes no sense.  Conventional ground forces are pretty useless, since whoever has space superiority can blast them to bits, and that's the Reapers.

 

If there's anything we really need, it's scientists and an industrial base.  With famous special forces and a sizable fleet being an excellent bonus.

 

And anyway, being poor, technologically backwards and underpopulated, the Krogan don't really offer very much as ground forces as far as I can see.

[Natureguy85]

The game tries to convince us of this, but it makes no sense.  Conventional ground forces are pretty useless, since whoever has space superiority can blast them to bits, and that's the Reapers.

 

If there's anything we really need, it's scientists and an industrial base.  With famous special forces and a sizable fleet being an excellent bonus.

 

And anyway, being poor, technologically backwards and underpopulated, the Krogan don't really offer very much as ground forces as far as I can see.

 

And there is precedent for this if we recall what Ashley says about why her grandfather surrendered Shanxi.

[RatThing]

I've been replaying ME. When you listen to ME1 Wrex talk about the krogan absolutely nothing he says will suggest they'd ever change.

But here's what I think is stupid about not curing the genophage: it's idiotic to think the reaper war will end fast enough to have the krogan reproduction rate be an issue for the Citadel races rather than for the reapers.

Krogan are incredible footsoldiers and we need them. We might need them for centuries.

 

Well it did end fast enough. Besides, the Reapers cannot be beaten conventionally anyways. If the crucible is the only hope for victory it would make more sense to get the help from the race with the scientists and the resources, the Salarians. There are good reasons for both options, idiotic is to dismiss those for the unpopular one.   

[TeffexPope]

As with most discussion about this game, we have little information to go on, and that information is mostly from a survey leak, 90% of which probably won't even be in the final product. Why, exactly is humanity looking for another home in another galaxy, when there are plenty of stars in our own? We have no idea. Perhaps the Council is still alive and well in the future, and for some reason still have laws against activating uncharted relays, but have no problem with going to another galaxy. Why are members of other races helping us do our job? We have no idea. Mercs, maybe. Are we wrong to 'pillage' andromeda for Remnant tech and artifacts? We don't know, for all we know the rest of the galaxy does the same thing. 

[Natureguy85]

Well it did end fast enough. Besides, the Reapers cannot be beaten conventionally anyways. If the crucible is the only hope for victory it would make more sense to get the help from the race with the scientists and the resources, the Salarians. There are good reasons for both options, idiotic is to dismiss those for the unpopular one.   

 

It ended fast enough because we found and were able to use a Deus Ex Machina device that the Protheans couldn't finish. I believe In Exile is referring to he Dalatrass when he says it's idiotic to think the Krogan numbers are a bigger problem for the other species than they are for the Reapers. Similarly, it is foolish to worry about the long term without first ensuring that there will be a long term.

[Shermos]

Inb4 SJWs to label Mass Effect Andromeda as a game that promotes Western imperialism.

 

 

And they'd be on the right track if the leak is any indication. Hopefully it won't be however. The Keth are made to look too much like the big bad when they actually have a legitimate claim. And there is precedent with the Batarians in the original trilogy. The writers only started to improve how they were presented in ME3. 

 

I'd rather role play as the North Vietnamese than the French or Americans. I'm all for being forced to make morally ambiguous decisions which could get people killed, but I'm not all for repeating a sad chapter in human history in a fictional universe. 

[MisterJB]

The people of Andromeda have yet to share in the blessings of Synthesis.

We must bring it to them.

We must bring it to the entire universe.

 

[Steelcan]

what does the genophage have to due with colonizing primitives?

[In Exile]

The game tries to convince us of this, but it makes no sense. Conventional ground forces are pretty useless, since whoever has space superiority can blast them to bits, and that's the Reapers.

If there's anything we really need, it's scientists and an industrial base. With famous special forces and a sizable fleet being an excellent bonus.

And anyway, being poor, technologically backwards and underpopulated, the Krogan don't really offer very much as ground forces as far as I can see.

It's not that simple. Fleets are important, because the reapers are ships, but we live on planets.Look at Thessia or Earth: once reapers put boots on the ground the fleets matter a hell of a lot less. The one difference here is Palaven, and that's because of how the Turians had both material and ground might.

An industrial base won't do us much good when the reapers sent unending waves after us.

That's why the Geth are so valuable: they can build industrial platforms in areas of space the reapers might not initially think to explore.

The cured krogan breed fast. The Citadel races are dying by the millions each day the reaper genocide goes on. Krogan are brutes - you won't see them manning newly built ships, for example. They aren't scientists. Every turian and human life wasted holding a rilfe is one that isn't researching ways to defeat the reapers or piloting a capital ship.

That's why the krogan matter: as cannon fodder.

[KaiserShep]

The people of Andromeda have yet to share in the blessings of Synthesis.

We must bring it to them.

We must bring it to the entire universe.

 

 

PC: Sir? Yes hello, sir? Would you know to know more about Synthesis? Please, upload this pamphlet into whatever the equivalent of a frontal lobe your species possesses. 

 

NPC: Gorba koo monga kapla noska tru skriga! Momna da diska! 

 

PC: I will….take that as a maybe. 

[TeffexPope]

what does the genophage have to due with colonizing primitives?

I guess genophage is a synonym for 'derailment'. Not gonna search the thread, but I'm going to guess it didn't' take very long for it to go off-topic.