1472 réponses à ce sujet

[aoibhealfae]

Except that Dorian don't have "the fate of your entire race rest on your ovaries". The portrayed view on Krogan society still give very little room on their female narrative. Eve is just a representation of the female clan and she is their shaman which puts her in status further up. The only mention of other females was Shiagur, the female clan's acceptance of a coordinated breeding program, the significant amount of female suicide from failed conception and how they're overly enthusiastic to have sex with Wrex. A fertile female krogan who don't want to be a breeder is guaranteed to be ostracized and shamed. Would be interesting to see the real workings and the dynamic of krogan culture in situation as that.

 

Honestly, I won't be surprised if Bioware did reuse a lot of similar plots since they've already reuse a lot of similar tropes, themes and plots. The whole abomination arc; Wynne = Justice = Anders = Cole. The idea of psychic mind-melding; Bastila Shan = Revan, Shepard = Liara, Valkorion = Outlander. Mother and daughter conflict; Morrigan and Flemeth; Morinth and Samara; Vaylin and Senya. Male romance trope; Carth = Kaidan = Alistair = Anders = Cullen, etc.
 

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There's also BroShep/Thane, FemShep/Ashley, FemShep/Miranda and FemShep/Tali romance dialogues but just because they're hidden or cut out in the middle of production, it still doesn't make them originally meant to be bisexual. They didn't create the game as a dating simulation.

 

Modded dialogue flag BroShep still refer himself as a woman, does this mean he's originally meant to be a trans?

[Midnight Bliss]

When have I said Bioware doesn't care? I said ME team didn't care. Notice the word "didn't" and "ME team". Dragon Age team and Mass Effect team based on different locations and they develop games separately. You can tell the treatment between the two teams. Lesbian romance like Asari, is it for straight guys or is it for lesbians? Kaidan was a copy and paste inferior version from female Shepard while Cortez is basically an NPC. I see it as pressure from the higher up and fans to include it rather than effort from them wanting to include it. They have a different team now, so I don't hold anything against ME until I see the product. 

I find it sort of awesome that Sam and Steve were probably added from fan pressure, but managed to be BW's best, and two of the best gay/lesbian character(s) I've ever seen because of how effortless them being gay felt, that who they were as characters wasn't defined by that their sexual orientation, but it also mattered for the same reasons it would for heterosexual characters, the equal way, as opposed to the usual D list version gay/lesbian characters generally have foisted on them.

 

I also find it sort of sad, because it makes me wonder how amazing a full fledged gay badass squadmate LI could have been in ME3 had they not been so afraid of controversy and had the commitment to see it through to the very end, naysayers be damned.

[Revan Reborn]

When have I said Bioware doesn't care? I said ME team didn't care. Notice the word "didn't" and "ME team". Dragon Age team and Mass Effect team based on different locations and they develop games separately. You can tell the treatment between the two teams. Lesbian romance like Asari, is it for straight guys or is it for lesbians? Kaidan was a copy and paste inferior version from female Shepard while Cortez is basically an NPC. I see it as pressure from the higher up and fans to include it rather than effort from them wanting to include it. They have a different team now, so I don't hold anything against ME until I see the product. 

Considering the Mass Effect team is part of BioWare, yeah that's pretty ridiculous.

 

You do realize that before BioWare Montreal started developing MEA, all BioWare's main games were developed at BioWare Edmonton? They have different writers, but it was the same developers making both series. BioWare Montreal was just a supplemental studio previously.

 

You are making a subjective argument claiming Kaidan and Cortez are "inferior." The truth of the matter is BioWare didn't have to include any romances at all. Back in the days of KotOR 1, they didn't even show kissing... I'm curious as to what you think a great romance is, as the heterosexual romance options weren't that great in the trilogy either. Aside from Miranda, I really didn't like any of the choices male Shepard had among female companions.

 

You can be cynical and just believe fan pressure made BioWare include these characters, but ultimately it's BioWare's decision to make. They write these characters and they decide how they want to be used. Even with a different studio developing the game, Mac Walters (lead writer on ME3) is still the creative director and is in charge of the direction the game goes. We'll see how much exactly changes, but given your response I'm not sure anything BioWare does will live up to your standards.

[Battlebloodmage]

Considering the Mass Effect team is part of BioWare, yeah that's pretty ridiculous.

 

You do realize that before BioWare Montreal started developing MEA, all BioWare's main games were developed at BioWare Edmonton? They have different writers, but it was the same developers making both series. BioWare Montreal was just a supplemental studio previously.

 

You are making a subjective argument claiming Kaidan and Cortez are "inferior." The truth of the matter is BioWare didn't have to include any romances at all. Back in the days of KotOR 1, they didn't even show kissing... I'm curious as to what you think a great romance is, as the heterosexual romance options weren't that great in the trilogy either. Aside from Miranda, I really didn't like any of the choices male Shepard had among female companions.

 

You can be cynical and just believe fan pressure made BioWare include these characters, but ultimately it's BioWare's decision to make. They write these characters and they decide how they want to be used. Even with a different studio developing the game, Mac Walters (lead writer on ME3) is still the creative director and is in charge of the direction the game goes. We'll see how much exactly changes, but given your response I'm not sure anything BioWare does will live up to your standards.

Subjective claims? If you bother watching, Kaidan's scenes are basically cut shorter than femShep in many scenes. 

 

Different writers and team make the game, creative director are also different, who do you think decide who can romance? The writers and director or the people who make the game? I'd judge when I see the new game, while Mac Walters is on the time, most of the original people are still gone. I'm very easy to satisfied, I'm perfectly happy with Kaidan and Cortez if they're written the same as other LIs and they all are written the same if it's the bisexual options, no cutting a ton of scenes between maleShep and femShep. 

[Revan Reborn]

Subjective claims? If you bother watching, Kaidan's scenes are basically cut shorter than femShep in many scenes. 

 

Different writers and team make the game, creative director are also different, who do you think decide who can romance? The writers and director or the people who make the game? I'd judge when I see the new game, while Mac Walters is on the time, most of the original people are still gone. I'm very easy to satisfied, I'm perfectly happy with Kaidan and Cortez if they're written the same as other LIs and they all are written the same if it's the bisexual options, no cutting a ton of scenes between maleShep and femShep. 

It's worth noting Kaidan and Ash didn't receive that much screen time in ME3 due to the fact either one of them could die in ME1. Just like most of the companions in ME2, they became largely irrelevant by the last game. I'm sure Kaidan's romance wasn't great, but neither was Ash or most of the companions. Honestly, the only companion BioWare seemed to do a decent job on was Liara, regardless of sexual orientation.

 

I'm merely stating a fact that BioWare Edmonton made all of these games. The creative director is the final say and the writer has to get his/her approval before they create any sort of romance. Casey was in charge of that stuff on ME1-3, but now Mac is running the show.

 

As I said with regard to Ash, most of the romances in ME3 were done rather poorly. The main reason for this is because the game was rushed and had an extremely short development cycle. BioWare didn't do justice for anybody, besides Liara, so its less an issue of the "ME team doesn't care about gay men" and more of an issue of time constraints. MEA has been in development so long that I'm certain everything we had in ME3 will be much better and more.

[Panda]

It's worth noting Kaidan and Ash didn't receive that much screen time in ME3 due to the fact either one of them could die in ME1. Just like most of the companions in ME2, they became largely irrelevant by the last game. I'm sure Kaidan's romance wasn't great, but neither was Ash or most of the companions. Honestly, the only companion BioWare seemed to do a decent job on was Liara, regardless of sexual orientation.

 

I'm merely stating a fact that BioWare Edmonton made all of these games. The creative director is the final say and the writer has to get his/her approval before they create any sort of romance. Casey was in charge of that stuff on ME1-3, but now Mac is running the show.

 

As I said with regard to Ash, most of the romances in ME3 were done rather poorly. The main reason for this is because the game was rushed and had an extremely short development cycle. BioWare didn't do justice for anybody, besides Liara, so its less an issue of the "ME team doesn't care about gay men" and more of an issue of time constraints. MEA has been in development so long that I'm certain everything we had in ME3 will be much better and more.

 

Eh I'm quite sure that Garrus romance was done well, I haven't heard any complaints about his romance in ME3 (ME2 yes, but it got lot better in ME3) and it's my favorite. Didn't like Kaidan's with female Shep, but that's likely just my own preference in terms of romance and LI than his romance not being good- there is lot of people who liked it as well.

 

What comes to gay romances, I guess ME3's m/m romances might have been too little too late for many players which is pretty understable in my mind. I don't know what current ME:A team thinks of gay romances, but as things currently are in gaming world I don't think there is any reason to shy away from them. Hopefully there is better balance in LI's in ME:A than there was in previous games.

[Prince Enigmatic]

It would certainly fit the context and nature (from what we already can discern about ME:A's plot and narrative) for there to be more balance in LI's. We are looking to colonize new worlds, explore new star systems, less of a against the clock style feel, and a better time to perhaps cultivate not just romantic relationships, but friendships with ME:A's crew. 

 

And to be honest, this is all subjective. Some laud Kaidan's romances for Male Shepards and FemSheps, I personally had no problem having Kaidan as a LI for my Male Shepard till ME3, but that's just me. I felt it was well written, and developed well across the game. Some think Garrus' romance was better developed, some Miranda's. I feel these sorts of topics can end up going in circles cause there is simply no right or wrong answer here. 

[Revan Reborn]

It would certainly fit the context and nature (from what we already can discern about ME:A's plot and narrative) for there to be more balance in LI's. We are looking to colonize new worlds, explore new star systems, less of a against the clock style feel, and a better time to perhaps cultivate not just romantic relationships, but friendships with ME:A's crew. 

 

And to be honest, this is all subjective. Some laud Kaidan's romances for Male Shepards and FemSheps, I personally had no problem having Kaidan as a LI for my Male Shepard till ME3, but that's just me. I felt it was well written, and developed well across the game. Some think Garrus' romance was better developed, some Miranda's. I feel these sorts of topics can end up going in circles cause there is simply no right or wrong answer here. 

Exactly. It's entirely subjective, which is why it's ridiculous to suggest the gay romances were "inferior." It's all a matter of opinion based on whether you liked the writing of the character or not. As I said, I didn't like most of the female romance options for male Shepard, so it's a matter of taste.

[Hair Serious Business]

[Battlebloodmage]

Exactly. It's entirely subjective, which is why it's ridiculous to suggest the gay romances were "inferior." It's all a matter of opinion based on whether you liked the writing of the character or not. As I said, I didn't like most of the female romance options for male Shepard, so it's a matter of taste.

It's inferior not compared to other romance, but compared to femShep for Kaidan. His scne got CUT short between Kaidan for femShep and Kaidan for maleShep for MANY scenes, I'm not sure what's so confusing about that. It's one thing to say that they have the same scenes or that they have alternative scenes, it's another when many scenes got cut completely, watch it and compare. 

[Revan Reborn]

It's inferior not compared to other romance, but compared to femShep for Kaidan. His scne got CUT short between Kaidan for femShep and Kaidan for maleShep for MANY scenes, I'm not sure what's so confusing about that. It's one thing to say that they have the same scenes or that they have alternative scenes, it's another when many scenes got cut completely, watch it and compare. 

I am just stating your presumption that the "ME team doesn't care about gay men" is ridiculous. I don't know the circumstances for why the maleShep scenes with Kaidan are shorter. Whether it was time constraints, priorities, etc., there are a number of reasons the romance scene turned out the way it did. As I said before, ME3 was a rushed product and a lot of content was cut. MEA has had the longest development cycle of the series so far, so it should work to our advantage whatever you are looking forward to.

[Battlebloodmage]

I am just stating your presumption that the "ME team doesn't care about gay men" is ridiculous. I don't know the circumstances for why the maleShep scenes with Kaidan are shorter. Whether it was time constraints, priorities, etc., there are a number of reasons the romance scene turned out the way it did. As I said before, ME3 was a rushed product and a lot of content was cut. MEA has had the longest development cycle of the series so far, so it should work to our advantage whatever you are looking forward to.

It's not ridiculous when 2 games have no romance, and the last game that has a subpar version between the 2 Kaidan. The last part is something I've already said. I said I'd hold my opinion when it come to MEA. 

[Prince Enigmatic]

It's inferior not compared to other romance, but compared to femShep for Kaidan. His scene got CUT short between Kaidan for femShep and Kaidan for maleShep for MANY scenes, I'm not sure what's so confusing about that. It's one thing to say that they have the same scenes or that they have alternative scenes, it's another when many scenes got cut completely, watch it and compare. 

 

Is this a Kaidan/FemShep romance started in ME1 compared with Kaidan/MaleShep, or both relationships starting in ME3?

 

If it is the former then there shouldn't be an issue with shorter scenes for Kaidan and MaleShep because there is two games worth of history and romantic interaction for Kaidan/FemShep romances. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Is this a Kaidan/FemShep romance started in ME1 compared with Kaidan/MaleShep, or both relationships starting in ME3?

 

If it is the former then there shouldn't be an issue with shorter scenes for Kaidan and MaleShep because there is two games worth of history and romantic interaction for Kaidan/FemShep romances. 

Actually no, it was the standard non-imported Shep for both version where maleShep has many of the scenes from femShep cut out, I don't compare it to the imported version which also has more scenes on top of the scenes being cut out. Many of the scenes being cut are about showing affection which make it a bit irritating, like during the date, femShep has a bunch of extra lines and scene where Kaidan places femShep's hand on his face or during the romance scene where femShep sits on top of Kaidan, or when they holding hands while walking into the dance club. They cut out all the scenes that have maleShep and Kaidan showing affections toward each other. 

[Prince Enigmatic]

Actually no, it was the standard non-imported Shep for both version where maleShep has many of the scenes from femShep cut out, I don't compare it to the imported version which also has more scenes on top of the scenes being cut out. 

 

I personally still enjoyed the MaleShep/Kaidan romance. I was just happy it was added. Sure I would have liked some of the scenes to not have been cut, but I still liked the writing for the romance. As I said before, this is all subjective. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I personally still enjoyed the MaleShep/Kaidan romance. I was just happy it was added. Sure I would have liked some of the scenes to not have been cut, but I still liked the writing for the romance. As I said before, this is all subjective. 

Kaidan is actually my favorite Bioware romance (Danse for the overall romance), so I'm not complaining about him. I just hope that they don't cut scenes for the bi option in the next game and have all options as equal. This is all I'm asking, really, just equal scene time for everyone. I personally prefer a squadmate over NPC since I like to bring the LI with me while traveling. It's still too early at this point to speculate when we don't know who's gonna be the squadmates yet. This thread is just basically a wish thread hoping that one option could be aliens since I like to experience the cross culture space romance you see in many sci-fi series. It's a fantasy game afterall, so I probably don't want to romance a bug human in real life anyway.

[Revan Reborn]

It's not ridiculous when 2 games have no romance, and the last game that has a subpar version between the 2 Kaidan. The last part is something I've already said. I said I'd hold my opinion when it come to MEA. 

In fairness, BioWare wasn't really doing any romance to any large degree in their games at all, straight, gay, or otherwise. DAO made attempts, but it was on a much longer development cycle and had a different writing team. The entire trilogy was really rushed, especially ME3. Considering romance was never the focus, as gameplay and the story were, I'm surprised BioWare added as much as they did with as many companions/crew members as they did. I just believe you are being unreasonable when you have no idea what the circumstances were for the different scenarios. Heck, better to have a romance than none at all.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Kaidan is actually my favorite Bioware romance (Danse for the overall romance), so I'm not complaining about him. I just hope that they don't cut scenes for the bi option in the next game and have all options as equal. This is all I'm asking, really, just equal scene time for everyone. I personally prefer a squadmate over NPC since I like to bring the LI with me while traveling. It's still too early at this point to speculate when we don't know who's gonna be the squadmates yet. This thread is just basically a wish thread hoping that one option could be aliens since I like to experience the cross culture space romance you see in many sci-fi series. It's a fantasy game afterall, so I probably don't want to romance a bug human in real life anyway.

 

I haven't played the Dragon Age series yet, I will eventually, but starting the BioShock series is taking priority at the moment.

 

I think most also would probably prefer having a squadmate for a LI as opposed to an NPC (not all before any people who prefer NPCs start converging!  ) since it does add more to bring them along on missions. Still, whilst I have never tried either the Cortez or Traynor romances myself (I've to date only ever done the MaleShep and Kaidan romance) the fact that they are there to me was a nice addition from BioWare. Of course not everyone got what they wanted, and judging by some fan requests I've seen, BioWare would have to navigate through some very let's say interesting territory in order to include every requested romance option in ME:A.

[Battlebloodmage]

In fairness, BioWare wasn't really doing any romance to any large degree in their games at all, straight, gay, or otherwise. DAO made attempts, but it was on a much longer development cycle and had a different writing team. The entire trilogy was really rushed, especially ME3. Considering romance was never the focus, as gameplay and the story were, I'm surprised BioWare added as much as they did with as many companions/crew members as they did. I just believe you are being unreasonable when you have no idea what the circumstances were for the different scenarios. Heck, better to have a romance than none at all.

I don't know what circumstances would make them cutting out scenes for maleShep when they are basically copy and paste everything from femaleShep to maleShep. Yes, it's better to have a romance than none at all, something I wish I could have for 2 straight games before ME3. With that many romance options they added, at least one of the male options could have available to maleShep like Kaidan in ME1, one of Garrus, Thane, or Jacob option in ME2, but alas, that's what they decided with. It doesn't matter if you think I'm being unreasonable, if you can't see the numerous number of options for straight characters ME team decided to have (even added the Miss. Battle t... for an extra romance fling) vs. none for 2 games then removing scenes from a copy and paste option for maleShep then there's really nothing I can say. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I haven't played the Dragon Age series yet, I will eventually, but starting the BioShock series is taking priority at the moment.

 

I think most also would probably prefer having a squadmate for a LI as opposed to an NPC (not all before any people who prefer NPCs start converging!  ) since it does add more to bring them along on missions. Still, whilst I have never tried either the Cortez or Traynor romances myself (I've to date only ever done the MaleShep and Kaidan romance) the fact that they are there to me was a nice addition from BioWare. Of course not everyone got what they wanted, and judging by some fan requests I've seen, BioWare would have to navigate through some very let's say interesting territory in order to include every requested romance option in ME:A.

I don't mind if they didn't include gaylien option to be honest. This is more like a wish thread and get people to discuss about it and show that there is an interest in gaylien option. What I care about more would be for them to include equal treatment options for gay LIs and don't make gay as a defining characteristic this time around. That is all I'm asking for, really. Just treating them like any other characters. 

 

Danse is from Fallout 4, but if I have to pick a favorite male romance from DA, it would be either Cullen or Alistair. As I said, Kaidan is my favorite Bioware option, so I'm happy that he was included as an option, just a bit sadden by the scenes being cut. I hope that MEA will handle it better. I like how ME deals with gay characters in term of story over DA, so I have high hope for this game. I do hope we get a gay and a bi option again though, since having 2 options to choose from would be cool, but I wouldn't mind one option if it's highly developed. Either ways, I'm looking forward to it.

[Midnight Bliss]

Kaidan's "gay" scenes are shorter because Kaidan is a heterosexual character and BW gave an in game BoyBoy mod in order to permit a romance for Bro Sheps in M3 in some bad attempt at being "socially progressive" and "inclusive", and this modded romance nothing more than his real romance with most of the content removed due to it being gender specific.

 

Kaidan has no place in these conversations about how much BW or the ME team care about gay men or gay romance stories, because he isn't gay or bisexual.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Kaidan's "gay" scenes are shorter because Kaidan is a heterosexual character and BW gave an in game BoyBoy mod in order to permit a romance for Bro Sheps in M3 in some bad attempt at being "socially progressive" and "inclusive", and this modded romance nothing more than his real romance with most of the content removed due to it being gender specific.

 

Kaidan has no place in these conversations about how much BW or the ME team care about gay men or gay romance stories, because he isn't gay or bisexual.

 

If that is the case, then why wasn't there a mod put in place for Ashley and Fem Sheps.

[Midnight Bliss]

If that is the case, then why wasn't there a mod put in place for Ashley and Fem Sheps.

They already had Liara/Samantha.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Well regardless of whether there is a mod or not, BioWare chose to implement it into the game, and the fact that the option exists for MaleSheps to romance Kaidans, trying to be more inclusive or not, and despite it being shortened from the FemShep one for whatever reason, the fact that the option is there, in the main game and the two DLCs Leviathan and Citadel, hardly says to me that Kaidan is a heterosexual character, at least not in ME3 or any of the subsequent DLC. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, I'm sure they won't pull something like that again. i have hope for the next game that they would do the gay romance right, not the Kelly and Asari are not real lesbians, and maleShep is straight but femShep is bi. They have more excuses than my aunt Margaret. I have worries with Mac Walter is still on the team, but I hope that we get the same equal treatment other romance options have. I don't ask for any special treatment but equal treatment, at the end of the day, really.