1472 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Comedian]

Actually, Han Solo was meant to be a big green lizard man.

Also, he could have been played by Burt Reynolds.

[Robert Cousland]

Also, he could have been played by Burt Reynolds.

 

And Burt Reynolds was almost James Bond.

[Grieving Natashina]

Also, he could have been played by Burt Reynolds.

Or Kurt Russell, who did audition for the part.

[daveliam]

I was meant to have blue eyes, but they ended up green and nobody tries to say that my eyes are blue.

 

So then Kaidan was meant to be heterosexual but he ended up bisexual.  So, according to your own logic, he's bisexual.  Your logic is just as easily "flipped" back on you.

 

Look, in long-term stories, there are changes in characters as they progress.  And they aren't always planned out in the beginning.  It doesn't make the changes 'non-canon'.  You don't have to like it and you can 'reject them', but it just makes you look a bit silly because it's like arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge actual data.

 

No one is disagreeing with your criticism about how it was handled.  People are disagreeing with you because you keep using your own interpretation as "fact".  And it's not.  It's the condescending undertone to your statements that is causing people hit back at you versus others who are making similar statements.  But you are trying to get a rise of out people.  That's clearly your M.O.  After all, you are gloating about how you "prefer to ride roughshod" and how people who disagree with you are "SJWs". 

[Robert Cousland]

So then Kaidan was meant to be heterosexual but he ended up bisexual.  So, according to your own logic, he's bisexual.  Your logic is just as easily "flipped" back on you.

 

No one is disagreeing with your criticism about how it was handled.  People are disagreeing with you because you keep using your own interpretation as "fact".  And it's not.  But that's clearly your M.O.  After all, you are gloating about how you "run roughshod". 

 

I like a man who runs roughshod, but not like this.

[daveliam]

I like a man who runs roughshod, but not like this.

 

Yeah, I mean, there's a time and place for it, for sure.  A little rough riding ain't a bad thing.....

[Robert Cousland]

Yeah, I mean, there's a time and place for it, for sure.  A little rough riding ain't a bad thing.....

 

Indeed, the more rough riding the better.

 

The Possible ME:A protagonist, Ryder, now has a very fitting name.

[Panda]

Dorian is a perfect example because all it took was for me to use the same argument somebody used in favor of Kaidan being bi and mention Dorian being turned bi and I immediately got a rage response full of untruths complete with upvotes from the usual suspects, which proved my earlier claim that people (at least in/reading this thread) are apparently only fine with changing established sexual orientations when it's in favor of their personal agenda or what they like, which is hypocritical bullshit.

I think making Dorian bisexual would be ludicrous, like trying to claim a heterosexual man suddenly being interested in other men sexually is ludicrous.

 

I acknowledge your point, but I disagree because I reject any claim that he's bisexual in ME3. Kaidan's supposed bisexuality is never acknowledged anywhere outside Bro Shep, is out of character, and not even introduced or established anywhere within the story to the degree it doesn't exist at all for FemShep.

Kaidan's M/M romance is a developer provided mod and fan fiction, and at it's absolute best proves he's potentially playersexual for a gay Bro Shep. Other posters in this thread have made similar observations but got less heat for it, I guess because they used a softer touch whilst I prefer to ride roughshod.

 

I hear you, but personally I'm far more in favor of making new characters if you want to diversify your cast unless you're dealing with a character who doesn't have any established canon that conflicts with what you're trying to add.

 

Honestly it's a mix of principle and I'm especially passionate about Kaidan I'm a nerd and he's my favorite character BW ever made, has arguably my favorite romance story of any franchise, and is the exemplar of qualities I find find attractive in men, and I strongly dislike the idea of his character being used as a device for BW to try and shut up their gay fans with some funky playersexual M/M romance. Just like I'd hope Dorian / Solas / Alistair / Miranda / Ashley / Garrus / Tali / Steve / whoever / fans would be equally upset if they suddenly had a playersexual romance with a gender outside their sexual orientation in order to fill a quota or silence a disgruntled minority group.

 

Dorian is canonically gay, when Kaidan's sexuality wasn't confirmed even if he appeared straight so I don't think they are comparable. Though I get the idea. I disagree that him being bisexual in ME3 is mod or fanfiction though since developers and writers did that, not fans and what they decide to include in the game is canon. I guess there is moments where canon is stupid and you want to ignore it, but that doesn't make other people not acknowledge it as canon and game universe seeing it as canon.

 

In terms of making new characters instead of making older characters bisexual or more diverse other ways, I'm more into that as well, but I don't mind older characters becoming more diverse- especially if the reason of not making them like that in the first place was consumers being homophobic and unaccepting (or straight up ban of diversity like happened with comics).

[Biotic Apostate]

Hey guys! I finished working on some mods! I read some fan fiction and decided to make it real!

Look!

 

 

 

 

Again, this is fan made content, in no way supported by Bioware (none of these romances were present in DAO/DA2 or ME1), so be sure to leave a like and subscribe!

 

/s

 

Are we done yet?

[Midnight Bliss]

So then Kaidan was meant to be heterosexual but he ended up bisexual.  So, according to your own logic, he's bisexual.  Your logic is just as easily "flipped" back on you.

 

Look, in long-term stories, there are changes in characters as they progress.  And they aren't always planned out in the beginning.  It doesn't make the changes 'non-canon'.  You don't have to like it and you can 'reject them', but it just makes you look a bit silly because it's like arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge actual data.

 

No one is disagreeing with your criticism about how it was handled.  People are disagreeing with you because you keep using your own interpretation as "fact".  And it's not.  It's the condescending undertone to your statements that is causing people hit back at you versus others who are making similar statements.  But you are trying to get a rise of out people.  That's clearly your M.O.  After all, you are gloating about how you "prefer to ride roughshod" and how people who disagree with you are "SJWs". 

So mad you're trying to integrate my joke posts into your responses eh?

 

 

I don't agree with the things you and several others keep throwing around is actual data. Therein lies the problem.

 

 

You and your clique keep trying to argue because I didn't just step aside, figuratively bow my head and "zip it" when you felt entitled to start telling me who I am and what I believe, to use melodramatic instigatory condescending language in your comments toward me but then feign upset and start telling me how I feel based on your dislike of me and criticize as much of my posts as possible all the while being as rude and obtuse as you possibly could and trying to pretend your statements toward me weren't contentious from the very beginning.

Funny,  I've had reasonably polite disagreements with multiple people in this thread and none of them mentioned "my M.O." or complained of my posts being so condescending and meant to get a rise out of people, and those people all just happened to not be a part of your clique. Gee, it's almost as if your clique has a problem with me isn't it?

 

 

I've dealt with bitchy middle age judies like you before and know all about how these things play out, which is why in spite of all your chest thumping and mud tossing and refusing accountability for your crappy attitude and snide comments I stayed two steps ahead of you and your goomba squad since this started.

Stop wasting everyone's time with this ridiculous Holly Golightly of 169 East 71st Street act and grow enough balls to just admit you've been coming for me this whole time, either because I compared your gay Kaidan story with fan fiction or dared to criticize your savior Bioware whom you adore so much you devoted your entire profile description to honoring by saying they don't care about gay men.

 

I probably shouldn't have even wasted my time responding to your tripe after the second post or third post when it became clear what you were about, but I will live and learn cause' I'm correcting that error in judgement forthwith.

 

Dorian is canonically gay, when Kaidan's sexuality wasn't confirmed even if he appeared straight so I don't think they are comparable. Though I get the idea. I disagree that him being bisexual in ME3 is mod or fanfiction though since developers and writers did that, not fans and what they decide to include in the game is canon. I guess there is moments where canon is stupid and you want to ignore it, but that doesn't make other people not acknowledge it as canon and game universe seeing it as canon.

 

In terms of making new characters instead of making older characters bisexual or more diverse other ways, I'm more into that as well, but I don't mind older characters becoming more diverse- especially if the reason of not making them like that in the first place was consumers being homophobic and unaccepting (or straight up ban of diversity like happened with comics).

I would claim that all the empirical evidence of Kaidan's interest in women juxtaposed with nonexistent evidence of his interest in men, combined with the fact he was a heterosexual LI in ME1 is proof enough he was unquestionably straight in ME1-ME2.

 

 

Your point is definitely well taken though.

[Han Shot First]

Does it really matter what Kaidan's sexual preferences were when he was originally written? Whether or not the character was originally intended to be bisexual, he is bisexual as of ME3. That means he was also canonically bisexual in ME1 and ME2, whether or not his writer(s) intended it at the time either of those earlier games were written. Characters quite often end up in a different place from where their writers intended originally, before they completed their story. It happens all the time with book or TV characters.

 

It doesn't really change a thing about the character from the perspective of any Shepard that doesn't romance him either, except for maybe one line of dialogue.

[vbibbi]

 

I don't agree with the things you and several others keep throwing around is actual data. Therein lies the problem.

Okay, chill. The main issue is that you have consistently claimed that despite Kaidan factually being bisexual in ME3, it's not true. It is. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, or even what we consider his sexuality in ME1 or ME2. You can consider it a retcon, you can consider it in bad taste, you can consider it anything you want. But claiming that in ME3 Kaidan is not bisexual is false.

 

I don't know why you are so set on trying to disprove this and insult people who are just stating this simple fact.

[Master Warder Z_]

It doesn't really change a thing about the character from the perspective of any Shepard that doesn't romance him either, except for maybe one line of dialogue.

 

I wish there had been a option to actually call him out it during the romance with a femshep who romanced him back in ME1

 

That would have been humorous, but people get their pants in a knot over that sort of garbage.

 

Like 'Bro when we talked about this years ago, you said you loved a chick and now I see you checking out Steve down in engineering? What the hell happened while I was dead?'

 

 

What could have been.

[The Boss]

Whether or not the character was originally intended to be bisexual, he is bisexual as of ME3. That means he was also canonically bisexual in ME1 and ME2,

 

 

Nope.  And nope.  Bisexual means he's attracted to men as well as women, and there's no evidence of any attraction to men besides that weird obviously slapped on fake gay romance in ME3.  The one that lacks content compared to the actual normal romance.  The one people defend with vague and dubious evidence such as "in this one scene, the lights were kinda dim, and I swear I think Kaidan was kinda sorta maybe eyeing my BroShep, totally bi man!"  Come on now, that's just sad.  I mean, this is like reading one of those Teen Wolf fanpages where some girls swear up and down Stiles is gay and into Derek because in one scene he kinda smiled at him for half a second.  The evidence isn't there, just accept it.

[daveliam]

Nope.  And nope.  Bisexual means he's attracted to men as well as women, and there's no evidence of any attraction to men besides that weird obviously slapped on fake gay romance in ME3.  The one that lacks content compared to the actual normal romance.  The one people defend with vague and dubious evidence such as "in this one scene, the lights were kinda dim, and I swear I think Kaidan was kinda sorta maybe eyeing my BroShep, totally bi man!"  Come on now, that's just sad.  I mean, this is like reading one of those Teen Wolf fanpages where some girls swear up and down Stiles is gay and into Derek because in one scene he kinda smiled at him for half a second.  The evidence isn't there, just accept it.

 

Using ghosties to support your argument isn't really a winning strategy, Bliss.  At least cover your tracks better or try to change up your talking points. 

 

So moving away from unpleasantness and onto the topic at hand, what kind of character arc would people be interested in for a gaylien character?  Personally, I'd like their sexuality to have no real effect on their story (as much as I'd love a lesbian krogan, I'm sure that they'd dip her in "Breeding Duty" waters and I'd rather avoid that).  I wouldn't mind a capable "right hand man" type.  Or maybe an "eager up and coming mentee" type.  Or, frankly, I wouldn't mind an erudite scientist or doctor NPC.  Like Chakwas, but a guy.

[mrjack]

Nope.  And nope.  Bisexual means he's attracted to men as well as women, and there's no evidence of any attraction to men besides that weird obviously slapped on fake gay romance in ME3.  The one that lacks content compared to the actual normal romance.  The one people defend with vague and dubious evidence such as "in this one scene, the lights were kinda dim, and I swear I think Kaidan was kinda sorta maybe eyeing my BroShep, totally bi man!"  Come on now, that's just sad.  I mean, this is like reading one of those Teen Wolf fanpages where some girls swear up and down Stiles is gay and into Derek because in one scene he kinda smiled at him for half a second.  The evidence isn't there, just accept it.

 

This isn't a court of law. The writers don't have to provide "evidence" of Kaidan's earlier same-sex attraction for him to be bi. He's bi because they wrote that he is.

 

If you're talking about whether it was foreshadowed that he would end up being bi. I would agree that it was not. But it doesn't matter because that is the nature of episodic writing. If you want to go in a new direction with a character, you just do it. You can't go back and re-write your already published work.

 

There are so many things that happen in ME3 that weren't even conceived when ME1 was being written and yet this is the thing you focus on because you just don't like Kaidan being bi. The Garrus and Tali romances are also fanfiction I take it? They were strictly not into humans, right? And then that was retconned, right?

 

That said, I'm bowing out of this thread for a while until these slack-jawed morons find something else to fixate on. Maybe you can actually get back to talking about a gay alien romance.

 

All this thinly-veiled hate is bad for my chi 

 

EDIT: Shoulda known I was talking to a sockpuppet.

[The Boss]

Using ghosties to support your argument isn't really a winning strategy, Bliss.  At least cover your tracks better or try to change up your talking points. 

 

I'm not "Bliss", and  I don't need to use "ghosties"(ghosties? who the hell talks like this anyway?).  I couldn't care about winning any argument here, because there is no argument, Kaidan isn't bi and just because you have low standards and accept any old thing tossed in front of you like a starving dog eager for tablescraps doesn't mean everyone else is like that.  Face it, you're mad because another poster pointed out there's no evidence for the character being bi, and you couldn't handle it and started getting all emotional and taking it personal, catching feelings over a post about a video game.  Sadly for you, no amount of people liking your posts or regurgitating your same talking points you spew ad naueseum like a broken record changes what is FACT:  Kaidan is Straight.  Maybe if you took that energy you put into trying to be some snarky gay stereotype into getting people together and demanding better from Bioware you'd actually have a real gay romance worthy of talking about; instead of trying to retroactively claim a character is "bi" because of something Bioware literally slapped into a game to shut you up.

[HuldraDancer]

So bout them gay alien romances huh? Someone mentioned a Krogan as a possible one I think? That'd be pretty cool, and if they are in the game as well a male quarian might be pretty interesting too imo. Probably will never get any kind of Krogan romance but eh a girl can dream.

[daveliam]

I'm not "Bliss", and  I don't need to use "ghosties"(ghosties? who the hell talks like this anyway?).  I couldn't care about winning any argument here, because there is no argument, Kaidan isn't bi and just because you have low standards and accept any old thing tossed in front of you like a dog eager for tablescraps doesn't mean everyone else is like that.  Face it, you're mad because another poster pointed out there's no evidence for the character being bi, and you couldn't handle it and started getting all emotional and taking it personal, catching feelings over a post about a video game.  Sadly for you, no amount of people liking your posts or regurgitating your same talking points you spew ad naueseum like a broken record changes what is FACT:  Kaidan is Straight.  Maybe if you took that energy you put into trying to be some snarky gay stereotype into getting people together and demanding better from Bioware you'd actually have a real gay romance worthy of talking about; instead of trying to retroactively claim a character is "bi" because of something Bioware literally slapped into a game to shut you up.

 

Dude.  You were on my profile as "The Boss" a few minutes before "Bliss" posted about my profile content.  And, lo and behold, "Bliss" has never been on my profile before.  Then you show up a few minutes after "Bliss" logs out and support all of his points using the same exact language and logic.  Even your insults:  I'm a gay stereotype.  I have people liking my posts.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out.  Feel free to have as many ghost accounts as you want.  Just be better at it, please.  Or don't because at least it makes it easier to know who to ignore.

[Master Warder Z_]

So bout them gay alien romances huh? Someone mentioned a Krogan as a possible one I think? That'd be pretty cool, and if they are in the game as well a male quarian might be pretty interesting too imo. Probably will never get any kind of Krogan romance but eh a girl can dream.

 

Once again.

 

Gross.

 

reptiles are nearly as revolting as neckbeards.

[HuldraDancer]

Eh everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Personally I think it could be interesting and fun but that's just me. Already well aware that I have some rather strange tastes

[Master Warder Z_]

Eh everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Personally I think it could be interesting and fun but that's just me. Already well aware that I have some rather strange tastes

 

._. It wouldn't work in the bedroom anyway, Krogan weigh twice what any normal human would. You'd get smushed under a leathery hide of disgusting reptile flesh *shudders*

 

That said...

 

I wouldn't mind a more humanoid species that fits within reason, I mean for goodness sakes a Turian would be more practical here.

[Han Shot First]

Nope.  And nope.  Bisexual means he's attracted to men as well as women, and there's no evidence of any attraction to men besides that weird obviously slapped on fake gay romance in ME3.  The one that lacks content compared to the actual normal romance.  The one people defend with vague and dubious evidence such as "in this one scene, the lights were kinda dim, and I swear I think Kaidan was kinda sorta maybe eyeing my BroShep, totally bi man!"  Come on now, that's just sad.  I mean, this is like reading one of those Teen Wolf fanpages where some girls swear up and down Stiles is gay and into Derek because in one scene he kinda smiled at him for half a second.  The evidence isn't there, just accept it.

 

Kaidan's gay romance isn't any more fake than his straight content, and isn't even remotely comparable to Tumblr shipping. Unlike fans pairing their favorite characters who never actually hook up on screen, Kaidan does sleep with a guy if the player has Shepard pursue him. Kaidan can also express interest in Male Shep in ME3, even if Shepard isn't interested in him. That makes him canonically bi, and not playersexual.

 

It also doesn't matter that Kaidan never mentions prior male lovers. Maybe he's dated more women than men (being bi doesn't necessarily mean you don't have gender preferences), or he's always been attracted to men but hadn't acted on it before, or maybe he was closeted until the Reapers came knocking with the whole end of the world business. Who knows, and who cares. We don't really know the detailed dating history of any potential LI in the game, nor do we need to.

 

You're last sentence also seemed to imply that I'm emotionally invested in Kaidan's sexual preferences. I'm not. My canon Shep's LI was Liara, and Kaidan died on Virmire, way back in 2007 before his sexuality was even a topic of discussion. I just find the anger and denial some players have over Kaidan also being into dudes somewhat amusing.

[The Boss]

Dude.  You were on my profile as "The Boss" a few minutes before "Bliss" posted about my profile content.  And, lo and behold, "Bliss" has never been on my profile before.  Then you show up a few minutes after "Bliss" logs out and support all of his points using the same exact language and logic.  Even your insults:  I'm a gay stereotype.  I have people liking my posts.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out.  Feel free to have as many ghost accounts as you want.  Just be better at it, please.

 

Despite the fact I didn't even log into my account until long after that post Bliss made?  I logged in after that post, changed my displayname(used to be Zeta Reticuli, that ring a bell now?)So how would that even be possible then?  I logged in and saw your profile way after that post even got made, so unless I'm a time traveller now, you're full of it. And I've used the same "language and logic" I've used since I started posting on this site.  What I said wasn't even an insult, it's the truth, you act like a damn gay stereotype, what do you want me to say?  Quit acting like one and maybe you won't get called that?  And I can see people liking your posts because it's the same bunch of people who keep missing the points being made and repeating the same trash over and over and over again.  I can ask a mod to check my ip and verify what I'm saying, so you can knock it off with these baseless accusations. 

 

Now how about you try being better at debating, and have real arguments backed by real evidence and quit trying to deflect?  Oh wait, you have no argument and no evidence, oops.

[Biotic Apostate]

So bout them gay alien romances huh? Someone mentioned a Krogan as a possible one I think? That'd be pretty cool, and if they are in the game as well a male quarian might be pretty interesting too imo. Probably will never get any kind of Krogan romance but eh a girl can dream.

A krogan would be nice. One that is more calm would be a nice contrast to the ones we had, like Charr the krogan romantic. But I'm also excited about the new races. Maybe someone natively from Andromeda who joined our party to help with exploration?