1472 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Comedian]

Since we can romance a ghoul in Fallout then I demand a Daedra LI for TES 6, and I don't mean that one who threatened to rape the Nerevarine's corpse.

[Biotic Apostate]

I don't think that without particular memories and persona that has developed they are same person if they get mind-wiped. For example Curie remains same person even if her memories are loaded in another "shell". I'm not sure about wiping out memories and giving new one's (what Railroad is doing), since I don't know if it's addition top of persona that synth had developed or if it's reset of everything which would be quite much killing the person. I guess question there is that do they have persona that is seperate from memories- or do humans have that as well ^^; It surely is interesting.

 

Personally I believe that some synths have developed their own persona and thus are more than robots with only inserted and achieved memories that are data which makes them more person like. Kinda like with Legion and EDI, I think they achieved their own memories that were separate from consensus/given data and developed personas that are more than only data in the end

Just in case, under the tag

Spoiler

I got the feeling that the first sign of a synth becoming conscious is developing feelings. In the Institute there was a synth that was used to test medical treatments on, and she was visibly scared, asking if it'd be painful. And another one that got curious and started reading through terminals, and was trying to come up with a lie, when caught.

 

I wish they developed the wiping plot more. If we could see a developed character go through wiping, we'd know if their personality changes. Was Gabriel also morally corrupt before the wipe? Is Danse awkward with people, because of being a synth with little socialisation, or did the RR implant that, or is it something that is part of his personality? Does Nick have a free will, or is he acting in the confines of what the previous Nick would have done? Plus some other stuff we already talked about.

 

Hell, it's not even confirmed, whether Danse went through the RR or not, in his dialogue he blames the Institute for not giving him memories of a family. It's hard to discuss synths, if the details are so muddled. It's a shame they didn't iron it out a little before release.

[Sifr]

I'm not saying they are corpses, I'm saying that their appearance makes in game NPCs think of corpses and zombies. Then again, it's hard to say with Bethesda, they can't even decide if ghouls need to eat, drink, and sleep, so maybe they're less...decomposed now.

 

FO4 seemed to suggest that ghouls don't actually need to eat, drink or sleep, but they nonetheless do. One reason could be that it helps them retain their sense of humanity to do these normal things, because it would be an extremely alien experience for a human to adapt to losing these basic needs after becoming ghoulified.

 

But I have a suspicion that the more important reason, is that because most ferals seem to be extremely emaciated and are often located in areas without food sources, long-term lack of sustenance or starvation causes regular ghouls to mentally deteriorate until they turn feral.

 

If a starving ghoul has deteriorated mentally to the point that all that was left was the need to satisfy hunger, that would explain why they attack on sight and have been shown to eat their victims from time to time.

 

Thus they don't need food, water or sleep in a biological sense... but they do need them to remain healthy and psychologically sound.

 

(Of course, assuming all that to be true, how did Billy survive in the fridge for 200 years without turning feral? I dunno, maybe it was heavily stocked when he climbed in? Assuming ghouls don't need to eat for days without hunger setting in, I suppose he might have been able to ration it for a while, but probably not centuries. Then again, trying to explain how he didn't asphyxiate or die from being locked in a hot box for so long is a stretch as well... so the real answer for all of it is probably just inconsistent writing.)

[Biotic Apostate]

The writer addressed Billy by saying "ah we have talking ghouls and mutants, who cares about realism."

 

In FNV, a ghoul named Harland said he survived being trapped by drinking condensed water off the water pipes, eating radroach meat, and "doing his business" in the corner. In 3, the Underworld (rarely visited by humans) has food/water vendors, and Aqua Cura is sold to the ghouls. 2 has a ghoul settlement with crops. All of this seems unnecessary, if they don't really need it. The risk of going feral seems far more likely, although I'm not sure, if there's anything to support it. In that case the BOS would have a bit stronger argument.

 

The problem Bethesda has is they do a lot of things, because it's cool. Kid in the fridge, Little Lamplight, Megaton (come on!). No water, power, or food sources. Obsidian/Black Isle didn't make this error, cities have crops, New Vegas has an electricity source to power the city. Their design influenced the settlements in 4.

 

Bethesda can do anything they want with their games, but it makes lore discussions nearly impossible.

[xassantex]

hmm,  play Multiplayer, open mic and have a gay romance will all the classes ... foursome are possible... just sayin ..

[Gothfather]

Aside from Mac Walters, Yanick Roy, and Jos Hendriks, most of the devs from BW Montreal are new ( + some people from the DA team). That studio mostly helped out with ME3MP, and some ME2, ME3, and DAI DLCs. We don't actually know how their work will stack up compared to DAI, since they've yet to release a full game developed by them.

 

But judging by the fact that Manveer Heir (who's passionately speaking out against sexism, racism, and homophobia in video games, and campaigning for more diversity) is in a way representing BW Montreal, I'm guessing we'll have a quite different atmosphere than that around the original trilogy (I'm still slightly irritated by 'Shepard can be anyone you want, except a gay man'). Both EA and BW changed since 2012, having more important LGBT characters is encouraged on the level of both the studio and the publisher. So maybe this time we'll get a bisexual guy, who's more into guys, or a gay alien, who's crucial to the story.

 

The new IP, on the other hand? That I'm slightly concerned about. But I'm not going to worry about that just yet.

 

Bioware has always been on the leading edge of LGBT representation in the AAA game market but it was only 7 years ago that they really took this a step forward when they allowed for m/m romances in DA:O. I think people forget that ME1 was released before this and Bioware wasn't sure how this would be received in terms of business impact. When they realised it wouldn't impact sales they pushed forward, maybe not always successfully but always in the right direction. And while ME2 came out after DA:O. They are almost released on top of each other. DA:O was released November 3, 2009 ME2 was released January 26, 2010. That is less than 3 months apart there was no way they could realise that the market would accept M/M romance options with no impact on sales to add them to ME2. Yet they DID add them to ME3 two years later.

 

It hasn't been that long ago that the idea of gay romance was just not an option for people. We have come pretty bloody far in the last 7 years and while it might seem a bit annoying that shepard is not able to get his "gay" on until the third game we should remember that two thirds of Mass effect was developed BEFORE bioware took the 'risk' to test if being more inclusive in their romances was viable business sense. So it shouldn't be surprising that it lacks the diversity of Dragon age. It is easy to look back now and say obviously it makes good business sense but at the time it was a risk for a AAA game to do this and this happened less than a decade ago.

 

I see no evidence to suggest that Bioware's progressiveness is individual dev team policy. It seems to me that it is company policy and it moved quite rapidly across their IPs is there really any evidence to suggest that the new ip wouldn't be as progressive?

[Panda]

Bioware has always been on the leading edge of LGBT representation in the AAA game market but it was only 7 years ago that they really took this a step forward when they allowed for m/m romances in DA:O. I think people forget that ME1 was released before this and Bioware wasn't sure how this would be received in terms of business impact. When they realised it wouldn't impact sales they pushed forward, maybe not always successfully but always in the right direction. And while ME2 came out after DA:O. They are almost released on top of each other. DA:O was released November 3, 2009 ME2 was released January 26, 2010. That is less than 3 months apart there was no way they could realise that the market would accept M/M romance options with no impact on sales to add them to ME2. Yet they DID add them to ME3 two years later.

 

It hasn't been that long ago that the idea of gay romance was just not an option for people. We have come pretty bloody far in the last 7 years and while it might seem a bit annoying that shepard is not able to get his "gay" on until the third game we should remember that two thirds of Mass effect was developed BEFORE bioware took the 'risk' to test if being more inclusive in their romances was viable business sense. So it shouldn't be surprising that it lacks the diversity of Dragon age. It is easy to look back now and say obviously it makes good business sense but at the time it was a risk for a AAA game to do this and this happened less than a decade ago.

 

I see no evidence to suggest that Bioware's progressiveness is individual dev team policy. It seems to me that it is company policy and it moved quite rapidly across their IPs is there really any evidence to suggest that the new ip wouldn't be as progressive?

 

Well I agree that same sex romances are quite new thing in video games, but DAO wasn't first of Bioware's. Jade Empire has gay romance as well. Silk Fox and Sky are both bisexuals so there is 1 m/m romance option and 1 f/f romance option and it was couple years before DA and ME. I don't know how it was received though.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well I agree that same sex romances are quite new thing in video games, but DAO wasn't first of Bioware's. Jade Empire has gay romance as well. Silk Fox and Sky are both bisexuals so there is 1 m/m romance option and 1 f/f romance option and it was couple years before DA and ME. I don't know how it was received though.

The way it was presented was pretty strange though. It's like a hidden option or an Easter Egg, you need to be a jerk to both females to even start and Sky is pretty much into girls but open to you, I guess. It's the first time gay romance was ever presented in a Bioware game, so I'm not criticizing it, but it just seems strange how they keep presenting bisexual men in the exact same way in almost every game. It could just be because straight guys or straight girls write these characters, so it could just be more familiar territory for them, I suppose. 

[Panda]

The way it was presented was pretty strange though. It's like a hidden option or an Easter Egg, you need to be a jerk to both females to even start and Sky is pretty much into girls but open to you, I guess. It's the first time gay romance was ever presented in a Bioware game, so I'm not criticizing it, but it just seems strange how they keep presenting bisexual men in the exact same way in almost every game. It could just be because straight guys or straight girls write these characters, so it could just be more familiar territory for them, I suppose. 

 

I haven't played it myself, I have just played it once with female character- but I have heard that it wasn't implemented that well with fade-to-black kiss scene and so on. But I guess it's alright taken how Bioware has improved from there and hopefully keeps improving for ME:A too ^^

[Jedi Comedian]

The way it was presented was pretty strange though. It's like a hidden option or an Easter Egg, you need to be a jerk to both females to even start and Sky is pretty much into girls but open to you, I guess. It's the first time gay romance was ever presented in a Bioware game, so I'm not criticizing it, but it just seems strange how they keep presenting bisexual men in the exact same way in almost every game. It could just be because straight guys or straight girls write these characters, so it could just be more familiar territory for them, I suppose.

I wouldn't have minded if they did that with Kaidan in ME1 (better than not having a m/m romance at all), why didn't they?

[Battlebloodmage]

I wouldn't have minded if they did that with Kaidan in ME1 (better than not having a m/m romance at all), why didn't they?

They're afraid of the lash back. It's a space game after all, and most people who play it would likely be dudebros. They make a game with certain audience in mind, we can already see that with the Asari race and the boob windows. There is nothing wrong with that since companies just wanna make money after all. It's just ended up being about gay audience may drive away potential buyers, I guess. 

[-leadintea-]

They're afraid of the lash back. It's a space game after all, and most people who play it would likely be dudebros. They make a game with certain audience in mind, we can already see that with the Asari race and the boob windows. There is nothing wrong with that since companies just wanna make money after all. It's just ended up being about gay audience may drive away potential buyers, I guess. 

 

That's pretty much the type of people I envision who play the Mass Effect series which is one of the reasons I don't really care too much about the series or how they handle LGBT content compared to the Dragon Age series. As long as we get at least 2 options, they can make as many Asaris, Kellys, and Dianas for the dudebros as they want.

[Biotic Apostate]

Bioware has always been on the leading edge of LGBT representation in the AAA game market but it was only 7 years ago that they really took this a step forward when they allowed for m/m romances in DA:O. I think people forget that ME1 was released before this and Bioware wasn't sure how this would be received in terms of business impact. When they realised it wouldn't impact sales they pushed forward, maybe not always successfully but always in the right direction. And while ME2 came out after DA:O. They are almost released on top of each other. DA:O was released November 3, 2009 ME2 was released January 26, 2010. That is less than 3 months apart there was no way they could realise that the market would accept M/M romance options with no impact on sales to add them to ME2. Yet they DID add them to ME3 two years later.

 

It hasn't been that long ago that the idea of gay romance was just not an option for people. We have come pretty bloody far in the last 7 years and while it might seem a bit annoying that shepard is not able to get his "gay" on until the third game we should remember that two thirds of Mass effect was developed BEFORE bioware took the 'risk' to test if being more inclusive in their romances was viable business sense. So it shouldn't be surprising that it lacks the diversity of Dragon age. It is easy to look back now and say obviously it makes good business sense but at the time it was a risk for a AAA game to do this and this happened less than a decade ago.

 

I see no evidence to suggest that Bioware's progressiveness is individual dev team policy. It seems to me that it is company policy and it moved quite rapidly across their IPs is there really any evidence to suggest that the new ip wouldn't be as progressive?

Bioware is on top of the representation now and has been for a while, and we have come a long way in the recent years, but I absolutely disagree that it's always been that way. Fallout 2 (1998) had gay marriage, Fable (2004) - the same, in Sims (2001) every character is essentially bi. Juhani was the first attempt they made, then came Sky's hidden romance, but it was DAO that really started BW's transition towards inclusiveness (let's all forget the threesome in JE, please).

 

And what was released first doesn't matter, they said the same about RPGs (around BG2) - that the core audience were straight males. DAO was marketed towards the same audience, yet they included a m/m romance in it anyway. Regardless of what I think of Zevran (flirting with women while in a relationship with you?...), that was a daring move, and ME lacked this type of stance. There was a baffling disconnect, when half of the studio was saying they want to make games for everyone, and the other one was excluding a very specific part of the audience.

 

You could also see the divide between teams here after DA2/ME3, when the DA team passionately defended their decision to be inclusive, and criticised gay toggle ideas, while Hudson responded to backlash by saying, essentially, "they forced us."

 

It's okay that the ME team wanted to play it safe. But ME1 and 2 (plus comments about them) created distrust that's hard to completely erase, even after 3. BW and EA as a whole might encourage LGBT inclusion, but in the end it's the decision of the dev team how inclusive they will be. They do not get to ride on the inclusive reputation of the DA team, they have to earn it themselves. Caution regarding the new IP is absolutely justified here.

[Jedi Comedian]

Wasn't the original plan in ME1 to go for the all bi LIs route? I wonder what would have happened then.

[Dalinne]

Wasn't the original plan in ME1 to go for the all bi LIs route? I wonder what would have happened then.

Fox would have added a HOMOSEXUALS!!! at SEX WITH ALIENS!!! stupid controversy  . Altough my poor MaleShep would have had his Alenko's time already

[Jedi Comedian]

Fox would have added a HOMOSEXUALS!!! at SEX WITH ALIENS!!! stupid controversy . Altough my poor MaleShep would have had his Alenko's time already

But they would not be homosexuals if they can be romanced by everyone. And Asari are the most human-like alien species of the galaxy. Those Fox guys just complain way too much.

[Dalinne]

But they would not be homosexuals if they can be romanced by everyone. And Asari are the most human-like alien species of the galaxy. Those Fox guys just complain way too much.

Absolutely. However, if I recall correctly, the developers took revenge with a in-game reference in Bring Down the Sky (ME1 dlc)

[Battlebloodmage]

It does seem like when people say Bioware is being inclusive, they should be talking about Dragon Age team, not the Mass Effect team. Mass Effect team was basically being forced by higher up and fan pressure to include it. You can clearly see it in the half ass effort with Cortez (an NPC) and Kaidan (Who is an inferior redone version from femShep). Hell, there were multiple options for straight guys in Star Wars the Old Republic but no gay option whatever at launch. Interesting how they said they want to do it right and want everyone to have sexuality, but in reality, it was just because of the backlash they may incur. Serious, asides from the gay planet, all the subsequent options are all bisexuals. If they were gonna go that route, they should have make all the characters bisexual from the very beginning. Wanting to do LGBT properly for Star Wars The Old Republic is just an outright lie. It just makes me feel pretty disrespected that I can't even support and buy the game despite me always wanting to support Bioware games no matter what regardless of whether it's good or bad since I want to support more LGBT friendly developers in general.

 

Anyway, I hope they would do a better job with ME4 in this regard. gay aliens or not, I just really want gay options to be on the same level of straight relationship. It shouldn't be too much to ask. I hope that they want to include gay relationship because they wanted to, not because they were forced to. 

[Gothfather]

 

Bioware is on top of the representation now and has been for a while, and we have come a long way in the recent years, but I absolutely disagree that it's always been that way. Fallout 2 (1998) had gay marriage, Fable (2004) - the same, in Sims (2001) every character is essentially bi. Juhani was the first attempt they made, then came Sky's hidden romance, but it was DAO that really started BW's transition towards inclusiveness (let's all forget the threesome in JE, please).

 

And what was released first doesn't matter, they said the same about RPGs (around BG2) - that the core audience were straight males. DAO was marketed towards the same audience, yet they included a m/m romance in it anyway. Regardless of what I think of Zevran (flirting with women while in a relationship with you?...), that was a daring move, and ME lacked this type of stance. There was a baffling disconnect, when half of the studio was saying they want to make games for everyone, and the other one was excluding a very specific part of the audience.

 

You could also see the divide between teams here after DA2/ME3, when the DA team passionately defended their decision to be inclusive, and criticised gay toggle ideas, while Hudson responded to backlash by saying, essentially, "they forced us."

 

It's okay that the ME team wanted to play it safe. But ME1 and 2 (plus comments about them) created distrust that's hard to completely erase, even after 3. BW and EA as a whole might encourage LGBT inclusion, but in the end it's the decision of the dev team how inclusive they will be. They do not get to ride on the inclusive reputation of the DA team, they have to earn it themselves. Caution regarding the new IP is absolutely justified here.

 

 

Oh for Frak sake. Really? So let me break down just how FRAKED up your position is...

 

Your premiss

 

1) Bioware is the leader in LGBT representation but this isn't a company stance but a dev team position

 

2) And bioware shouldn't get credit for this as a company because of one dev team namely the Dragon age team.

 

3)  ME3 only had diversity because they were forced to so obviously not a progressive dev team. As shown by Hudson's tweet.

 

These three points prove my Fraking POINT. It was BIOWARE higher ups that forced a less progressive development team to be inclusive. If your position was true then Hudson wouldn't have been forced because the only people who cared about being more inclusive would have been the DA team. The fact that Hudson was force is EVIDENCE that Bioware as a company has a policy of being inclusive that this inclusive position isn't limited to a single development team.

 

Boo fraking hoo ME's dev team wasn't naturally progressive, wake up and think. The fact that ME3 was more inclusive is a major sign of improvement. It is evidence that dev teams are not able to simply be inclusive, again 67% of Mass effect was developed pre origins. 1Origins was the first game that didn't hide same sex romances behind obscure dialogue options or as Battlebloodmage called it easter eggs. It was a risk and as soon as Bioware realised there was no financial reason not to be inclusive they forced ME3 their other owned active IP to follow suit. Where is the evidence that Bioware doesn't have a COPMANY policy of inclusion?

 

It does seem like when people say Bioware is being inclusive, they should be talking about Dragon Age team, not the Mass Effect team. Mass Effect team was basically being forced by higher up and fan pressure to include it. You can clearly see it in the half ass effort with Cortez (an NPC) and Kaidan (Who is an inferior redone version from femShep). Hell, there were multiple options for straight guys in Star Wars the Old Republic but no gay option whatever at launch. Interesting how they said they want to do it right and want everyone to have sexuality, but in reality, it was just because of the backlash they may incur. Serious, asides from the gay planet, all the subsequent options are all bisexuals. If they were gonna go that route, they should have make all the characters bisexual from the very beginning. Wanting to do LGBT properly for Star Wars The Old Republic is just an outright lie. It just makes me feel pretty disrespected that I can't even support and buy the game despite me always wanting to support Bioware games no matter what regardless of whether it's good or bad since I want to support more LGBT friendly developers in general.

 

Anyway, I hope they would do a better job with ME4 in this regard. gay aliens or not, I just really want gay options to be on the same level of straight relationship. It shouldn't be too much to ask. I hope that they want to include gay relationship because they wanted to, not because they were forced to. 

 

You honestly believe that Bioware were sitting down saying, 'we know for a fact we won't have LGBT romances in SW:TOR but lets tell the community that we will?' Seems more likely that Lucas wanting to sell the IP feared that including same sex relationship in SW:TOR would lower the value of the ip and so nixed the whole thing. And likely had a NDA attached to the whole thing so as not to alienate LGBT star wars fans. I don't find this all that out there given that SW:TOR released in December 2011 and in less than a year Disney bought it. And according to a USA today article these negotiations where on for over a year and a half. Hell it could have been Disney that said nix the LGBT content so there was no controversy with a product they were about to own. 

 

[Source]http://www.usatoday....asfilm/1669739/

 

 

The fact that Bioware Austin was saying from day one there would be LGBT content in the game then they suddenly do a 180 with no explanations tells me that it was out of their hands and they had  a gag order over the issue. Seriously why would they deliberately lie about this? It isn't like it would boost them sales and if deception was the point why not wait until after the game was released to say oh by the way no LGBT relationships?

Just to be clear i am not justifying what happened with SW:TOR but events seem to point to outside forces dictating what would be included not bioware just lying to their fans for sh!ts and jiggles. Nor am I implying that Bioware has always been successful with their LGBT characters what I am saying is that Bioware is the leader in representation for AAA games. They don't always get it right but frankly they don't always get straight characters 'right' either.

 

And seriously what is wrong with NPC romances? HELLO anyone home? Every straight romance have been with a NON PLAYER CHARACTER we don't have some super secret Bioware straight dating app that connects hetro PCs with other hetro PCs just to shun the LGBT community. All our romance options are NPCs.    Seriously? You have just lost my support.

 

I have been pretty fraking vocal in support of LGBT inclusiveness on this thread and plenty of others but now I think some people are just being unreasonable for the sake of manufacturing a controversy just so you can play the fraking victim. 'Oh I am a non hetrosexual I am so hard done by because of Bioware they haven't been perfect in creating LGBT characters.' 

 

And just to be clear the LGBT community hasn't lost my support just the 'woe is me, I am so hard done by crowd.' I'll tell you what i told my fellow hetro males that boo hooed over Cassandra and Josephine not being sexy enough and tried to claim being victims of some SJW conspiracy.

 

DEAL.

 

WITH.

 

IT.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=DBfhsLShnf8

[Battlebloodmage]

Oh for Frak sake. Really? So let me break down just how FRAKED up your position is...

 

Your premiss

 

1) Bioware is the leader in LGBT representation but this isn't a company stance but a dev team position

 

2) And bioware shouldn't get credit for this as a company because of one dev team namely the Dragon age team.

 

3)  ME3 only had diversity because they were forced to so obviously not a progressive dev team. As shown by Hudson's tweet.

 

These three points prove my Fraking POINT. It was BIOWARE higher ups that forced a less progressive development team to be inclusive. If your position was true then Hudson wouldn't have been forced because the only people who cared about being more inclusive would have been the DA team. The fact that Hudson was force is EVIDENCE that Bioware as a company has a policy of being inclusive that this inclusive position isn't limited to a single development team.

 

Boo fraking hoo ME's dev team wasn't naturally progressive, wake up and think. The fact that ME3 was more inclusive is a major sign of improvement. It is evidence that dev teams are not able to simply be inclusive, again 67% of Mass effect was developed pre origins. 1Origins was the first game that didn't hide same sex romances behind obscure dialogue options or as Battlebloodmage called it easter eggs. It was a risk and as soon as Bioware realised there was no financial reason not to be inclusive they forced ME3 their other owned active IP to follow suit. Where is the evidence that Bioware doesn't have a COPMANY policy of inclusion?

 

 

You honestly believe that Bioware were sitting down saying, 'we know for a fact we won't have LGBT romances in SW:TOR but lets tell the community that we will?' Seems more likely that Lucas wanting to sell the IP feared that including same sex relationship in SW:TOR would lower the value of the ip and so nixed the whole thing. And likely had a NDA attached to the whole thing so as not to alienate LGBT star wars fans. I don't find this all that out there given that SW:TOR released in December 2011 and in less than a year Disney bought it. And according to a USA today article these negotiations where on for over a year and a half. Hell it could have been Disney that said nix the LGBT content so there was no controversy with a product they were about to own. 

 

[Source]http://www.usatoday....asfilm/1669739/

 

 

The fact that Bioware Austin was saying from day one there would be LGBT content in the game then they suddenly do a 180 with no explanations tells me that it was out of their hands and they had  a gag order over the issue. Seriously why would they deliberately lie about this? It isn't like it would boost them sales and if deception was the point why not wait until after the game was released to say oh by the way no LGBT relationships?

Just to be clear i am not justifying what happened with SW:TOR but events seem to point to outside forces dictating what would be included not bioware just lying to their fans for sh!ts and jiggles. Nor am I implying that Bioware has always been successful with their LGBT characters what I am saying is that Bioware is the leader in representation for AAA games. They don't always get it right but frankly they don't always get straight characters 'right' either.

 

And seriously what is wrong with NPC romances? HELLO anyone home? Every straight romance have been with a NON PLAYER CHARACTER we don't have some super secret Bioware straight dating app that connects hetro PCs with other hetro PCs just to shun the LGBT community. All our romance options are NPCs.    Seriously? You have just lost my support.

 

I have been pretty fraking vocal in support of LGBT inclusiveness on this thread and plenty of others but now I think some people are just being unreasonable for the sake of manufacturing a controversy just so you can play the fraking victim. 'Oh I am a non hetrosexual I am so hard done by because of Bioware they haven't been perfect in creating LGBT characters.' 

 

And just to be clear the LGBT community hasn't lost my support just the 'woe is me, I am so hard done by crowd.' I'll tell you what i told my fellow hetro males that boo hooed over Cassandra and Josephine not being sexy enough and tried to claim being victims of some SJW conspiracy.

 

DEAL.

 

WITH.

 

IT.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=DBfhsLShnf8

Marvel owned by Disney and during that time, there are many gay characters revealed to be gay after the acquisition, Iceman are gay, Wiccan and Hulkling being featured prominently in a team book, and stuffs like that, ABC channel owned by Disney has many characters in it. Star Wars Knight of the Old Republic has a lesbian character in it already and in the novel series, they have gay couples in it. It has NOTHING to do with executive meddling by either Disney or Lucas and possibly even Bioware, moreso on the team that develop it. At the end of the day, it was about money, and if the team is afraid it would drive away potential buyers, then that's their choice. I don't blame them for that. I think I said the exact words already. Every straight romance has been with NPC? I consider companions and NPCs are different. It's just basically semantic at this point. It's shorter than just keep saying non-companion NPC all the time. Regardless of how it comes to be, there wasn't any gay romance in STWOR and ME for a very long time. It's not the situation where everyone has the same amount of choices but just wasn't satisfying with it like with the straight guys you're referring to.

 

I'm looking forward to ME4, I think it will do a better job for what it's worth. I'm not gonna judge ME4 based on the trilogy.

[Grieving Natashina]

I've been in lurk mode, but I have to share this. This whole George Lucas and Disney being anti-gay is completely untrue.

For example, George Lucas donated $50,000 to protest against Prop 8. It was in California, and it made gay marriage illegal. Again, he donated to fight it, not support it:
https://achievementg...s-contributors/

Meanwhile, Disney offers benefits to same sex couples and has done so since before gay marriage was legalized. We're talking since 1995:
http://www.nytimes.c...y-partners.html

They also have offered Theme Weddings for gay couples since 2007. They can have it at any Disney restort or cruise:
http://www.washingto...7040602286.html

Edit: Star Wars has a LGBT character that's part of the current canon. This is not from the old defunked EU:
http://www.polygon.c...mors-lords-sith

Edit #2: As far as the progressive (or lack thereof) nature of the ME team, I'm staying out of that debate. On the one hand, I can see why some folks are a little leery after the first trilogy. I don't share that feeling, but I understand the PoV. On the other hand, I feel that the ME team has grown over time and will probably include some M/M romances that are companions aside from Kaidan. I'm personally going to judge ME:A when it comes out. Until then, I'm going to give the ME:A team the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not trying to step on any toes, promise. Just my two creds on the matter.

[Jedi Comedian]

I've been in lurk mode, but I have to share this. This whole George Lucas and Disney being anti-gay is completely untrue.

For example, George Lucas donated $50,000 to protest against Prop 8. It was in California, and it made gay marriage illegal. Again, he donated to fight it, not support it:
https://achievementg...s-contributors/

Meanwhile, Disney offers benefits to same sex couples and has done so since before gay marriage was legalized. We're talking since 1995:
http://www.nytimes.c...y-partners.html

They also have offered Theme Weddings for gay couple since 2007. They can have it at any Disney restort or cruise:
http://www.washingto...7040602286.html

Edit: Star Wars has a LGBT character that's part of the current canon. This is not from the old defunked EU:
http://www.polygon.c...mors-lords-sith

Edit #2: As far as the progressive (or lack thereof) nature of the ME team, I'm staying out of that debate. On the one hand, I can see why some folks are a little leery after the first trilogy. I don't share that feeling, but I understand the PoV. On the other hand, I feel that the ME team has grown over time and will probably include some M/M romances that are companions aside from Kaidan. I'm personally going to judge ME:A when it comes out. Until then, I'm going to give the ME:A team the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not trying to step on any toes, promise. Just my two creds on the matter.

What we need is a badass gay Force user.

[Biotic Apostate]

Oh for Frak sake. Really? So let me break down just how FRAKED up your position is...

 

Your premiss

 

1) Bioware is the leader in LGBT representation but this isn't a company stance but a dev team position

 

2) And bioware shouldn't get credit for this as a company because of one dev team namely the Dragon age team.

 

3)  ME3 only had diversity because they were forced to so obviously not a progressive dev team. As shown by Hudson's tweet.

 

These three points prove my Fraking POINT. It was BIOWARE higher ups that forced a less progressive development team to be inclusive. If your position was true then Hudson wouldn't have been forced because the only people who cared about being more inclusive would have been the DA team. The fact that Hudson was force is EVIDENCE that Bioware as a company has a policy of being inclusive that this inclusive position isn't limited to a single development team.

 

Boo fraking hoo ME's dev team wasn't naturally progressive, wake up and think. The fact that ME3 was more inclusive is a major sign of improvement. It is evidence that dev teams are not able to simply be inclusive, again 67% of Mass effect was developed pre origins. 1Origins was the first game that didn't hide same sex romances behind obscure dialogue options or as Battlebloodmage called it easter eggs. It was a risk and as soon as Bioware realised there was no financial reason not to be inclusive they forced ME3 their other owned active IP to follow suit. Where is the evidence that Bioware doesn't have a COPMANY policy of inclusion?

You're not going to prove a point by getting aggressive, so just calm down.

 

We don't really know, what happened with ME3. Was it outside pressure, EA influence, BW GM executive order, or the wishes of parts of the team itself. 

 

All I know is that the DA team has been welcoming to LGB people for the past 3 games, and is improving and most recently they're also including trans people, while the ME team told gay and bi men that the game is not for them (but lesbians are marketable, so they're welcome), and then changed their minds.

 

I don't even know, why you're so unrelenting about this. I made a small comment that I'm cautious about the new IP. I'm not campaigning that the ME team are super homophobic, I'm saying that unlike with the DA team, which has a 3 title history of inclusiveness, and I can easily assume it's going to continue, and unlike with BW Montreal, where their public message is a plea for inclusiveness, and I'm optimistic about it, I'm not going to assume there will be LGBT people in the new IP until I see it in the game.

 

You may not care about what happened with ME1 and 2, but I do. Hearing the devs explain how it makes sense that in a game, where you can have your character be anything you want, but not a gay man, was disheartening. That's why I'll be careful about the IP, until I see that, hopefully, I didn't need to be.

[Jedi Comedian]

What we need is a badass gay Force user.

(Off-topic, just can't resist) This character should be either a lost Jedi (TSL reference intended), a survivor of Kylo's purge OR even a Knight of Ren. Both work for me.

[Prince Enigmatic]

(Off-topic, just can't resist) This character should be either a lost Jedi (TSL reference intended), a survivor of Kylo's purge OR even a Knight of Ren. Both work for me.

 

Well a while back J.J. did say we'd be getting a gay character(s). 

 

As to how, when, and who we'll have to wait and see. I'm also waiting with unbaited breath the inevitable backlash and criticisms how Star Wars is no longer family friendly. You just know the internets capacity for vitriol is going to skyrocket.

 

Also with Independence Day: Resurgence coming out soon, and the promise from director Roland Emmerich that there will be a gay character, it'll be interesting to see how well a character they are and how the overall response to how the LGBT character is introduced as LGBT, since opinion varies on how these characters should have there sexuality defined in fiction so that they qualify as LGBT.

 

The slowly growing trend for sci-fi to be more inclusive and have LGBT characters to me is both great (obviously) and to an extent worrying.

 

I don't want the inclusion of LGBT characters in sci-fi film or games to be exclusive to sci-fi, much like with a lot of strong, badass, female characters being more common in sci-fi, and sadly less as strong a presence in other genres. Sci-fi, being "future" and all, shouldn't have to be the only genre Hollywood is willing to show diversity and progression. That in itself is worrying and indicative of Hollywood's problems.

 

All I hope is as well with ME:A is that if there are LGBT love interests and same-sex scenes, there isn't a repeat of the controversy to ME3's inclusion of this, despite the likelihood of that happening. It's guaranteed FOX will flip a nut, but everytime I think the gaming industry moves forward a step, i come on the internet and discover we've just taken a few steps backwards again. 

 

For now, I'll continue to fanboy over my wish to see a romanceable drell for male protagonists  my own ultimate gaylien romance for ME:A lol