1472 réponses à ce sujet

[Prince Enigmatic]

It's strange to hear that watching football and shopping are classified as behaviors, nevertheless my point still stands. You can't simply classify all behaviors as  either masculine or feminine. Is politeness or shyness feminine or masculine?
 
If you want me to use it in the same context as you did, which is a very specific context, is drinking tea masculine or feminine? How about going to a concert? Even in dancing there are types of dancing that are neither masculine or feminine. I'm not trying to nit pick your statement but the point I'm trying to make is, stating all behaviors as either one or the other seems rather naive and absolute. And we all know only a sith deals in absolutes.

And the Jedi don't?

[Teabaggin Krogan]

And the Jedi don't?

Touche!

 

Although I was quoting Yoda.

[GeneralXIV]

Im really shy haha... I barely speak if youd meet me in real life x I love it here because I can say what I want instead of being afraid xxx

[Jedi Comedian]

Im really shy haha... I barely speak if youd meet me in real life x I love it here because I can say what I want instead of being afraid xxx

Kinda same here lol.

[GeneralXIV]

Im really afraid of people! Nearly everyone terrifies me... so I really dont speak to anyone haha. But here I can get excited about things and talk to people and have a little more confidence haha... Im still paranoid about upsetting or annoying anyone but at least I can say more than I would if you met me in reality

[Jalepeno Fire]

Im really shy haha... I barely speak if youd meet me in real life x I love it here because I can say what I want instead of being afraid xxx

This IS a lovely forum. I especially like how I made a joke about being in the possession of  'Krogan fetish pics' and somebody messaged me asking for them. I was just joking though. Or was I? 

[GeneralXIV]

This IS a lovely forum. I especially like how I made a joke about being in the possession of  'Krogan fetish pics' and somebody messaged me asking for them. I was just joking though. Or was I? 

 

Haha my signature has the perfect response to that

 

I've said some maybe rude sounding things here... I didnt dare say what I was going to about Michelle Pfeiffer though haha xxx That was me just being dirty! Id never say anything like that in reality though x

[Teabaggin Krogan]

This IS a lovely forum. I especially like how I made a joke about being in the possession of  'Krogan fetish pics' and somebody messaged me asking for them. I was just joking though. Or was I? 

 

Alright lets have it then, I need to verify that these are authentic, for science!

 

Edit :

[Battlebloodmage]

It's strange to hear that watching football and shopping are classified as behaviors, nevertheless my point still stands. You can't simply classify all behaviors as  either masculine or feminine. Is politeness or shyness feminine or masculine?

 

If you want me to use it in the same context as you did, which is a very specific context, is drinking tea masculine or feminine? How about going to a concert? Even in dancing there are types of dancing that are neither masculine or feminine. I'm not trying to nit pick your statement but the point I'm trying to make is, stating all behaviors as either one or the other seems rather naive and absolute. And we all know only a sith deals in absolutes.

Drinking? You mean like how drinking Cosmo or Sex on the Beach are considered to be girly? Or going to a Lady Gaga concert vs a metal band? Yes, the action of going somewhere is not gender classified, but the behaviors and tastes are what being classified by society. 

[Jedi Comedian]

the behaviors and tastes are what being classified by society.

I couldn't care less for the society's classifications because, have they ever wondered if they're right or not? Seems to me they never have. I simply can't trust someone who is so sure for no apparent reason. And a wise person is the he who is willing to admit he can be wrong. So I'll trust my own judgement, which is in my opinion, the wisest thing to do.

[Battlebloodmage]

I couldn't care less for the society's classifications because, have they ever wondered if they're right or not? Seems to me they never have. I simply can't trust someone who is so sure for no apparent reason. And a wise person is the he who is willing to admit he can be wrong. So I'll trust my own judgement, which is in my opinion, the wisest thing to do.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, how society perceives you affect your worth, like the emasculation of Asian guys make them less desirable, and so movies change all the Asian characters to Whites because they think Asians are not marketable. It's also affecting their dating aspects in both gay and straight world. Stereotypes holding by society about gay people often create how they're being viewed and judge their worth. Certain things we do may get called out like "what are you? Gay?". it's one thing if we live by ourselves, but we don't, we live together in society. 

[Dean_the_Young]

In what's probably a WAY long past attempt to get back to the OP's starting topic...

 

If there were a gaylien romance interest, I think I'd prefer to focus more on the alien than the gay. At least if the alien is a new species, rather than a Milky Way.

 

In ME1-3, aliens were basically just humans with funny skinsuits. Useful for the charicature of the hour (Krogan- manly tribal savages! Rar!), but not very alien in how they viewed themselves. That helped make them relatable, I suppose, but it also made them, well, humans in funny skinsuits. For a brief moment the Geth were the only aliens worth the name, until pinnochio syndrome overtook them. And honestly, for the most part, I don't mind- charicatures or not, they got to play with themes and such that were worthwhile. Except the Asari, who were little more than lesbian space babes of 'respected' sci-fi.

 

But none of them really had a sense of questioning the species gap, or even the compatibility. Tali was concerned about her immune system. Liara had a 'I'm monogendered,' which was spun in some quarters as little more than a hand-wave that could appease the likes of real-world social conservatives and Fox News. But even, or especially, Garrus- the least human love interest of them all- never really dabbled into what such a relationship could have, even though there was the protein split.

 

What I'd like to see is an alien love interest who questions what it means to be 'male', let alone the species gap. A species where 'male' doesn't just mean 'culturally recognizable male anatomy jokes', but something else. Different, alien, unconventionally male- and then build from that, to questioning xenophilia. For the milky way, it's an established and unquestioned thing- in Andrameda, it could be new, novel, and even taboo.

 

If we're going to use aliens and love itnerests to explore real world social things, I'd be all up for exploring the idea of 'overchanging a social taboo' from that direction for once, rather than just going 'so... how does anal work with that?'

[GeneralXIV]

I dont mind human like aliens haha... they kind of need to be compatible I suppose??? x

[GeneralXIV]

 

 

What I'd like to see is an alien love interest who questions what it means to be 'male', let alone the species gap. A species where 'male' doesn't just mean 'culturally recognizable male anatomy jokes', but something else. Different, alien, unconventionally male- and then build from that, to questioning xenophilia. For the milky way, it's an established and unquestioned thing- in Andrameda, it could be new, novel, and even taboo.

 

If we're going to use aliens and love itnerests to explore real world social things, I'd be all up for exploring the idea of 'overchanging a social taboo' from that direction for once, rather than just going 'so... how does anal work with that?'

 

I dont think thats taboo if Im honest... I guess its getting a bit more normal??? x

[Dean_the_Young]

I dont think thats taboo if Im honest... I guess its getting a bit more normal??? x

 

For the milky way, yes- thanks to the Asari. For Andromedea?

 

I think it would be an appropriate sort of cultural taboo if Andromedea is a 'new' galactic civilization setting. Something that separates the 'new' species from the Andromedians, at least superficially- and a suitable colonization theme of immigrant/settler societies bringing new norms and beliefs with them that counter traditional ones.

 

Tying into a second-real world parallel, though, it could also serve as a metaphor for gay culture overall. The world is not the West, and in much of it homosexual relationships are not as accepted as they are in the west. If we take the Mass Effect tradition of using alien species dynamics as metaphors for humanity, then something like 'xenophilia' could be a metaphor for 'same-sex relationships' even if homosexuality is not, itself, the nominal conflict for a romance arc to overcome.

[Teabaggin Krogan]

Drinking? You mean like how drinking Cosmo or Sex on the Beach are considered to be girly? Or going to a Lady Gaga concert vs a metal band? Yes, the action of going somewhere is not gender classified, but the behaviors and tastes are what being classified by society. 

You're giving a very selective answer while maintaining that "all" behaviors can be classified into two. How about if I ordered a mojito or had some tea or coffee, would that be stereotypical as well. How about being partial to hamburgers, is that masculine or feminine? Or getting tattooed, yes there are stereotypical tattoos as you might point out, but there are also plenty of tattoos and behaviors that defy any classification or stereotype. 

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, how society perceives you affect your worth, like the emasculation of Asian guys make them less desirable, and so movies change all the Asian characters to Whites because they think Asians are not marketable. It's also affecting their dating aspects in both gay and straight world. Stereotypes holding by society about gay people often create how they're being viewed and judge their worth. Certain things we do may get called out like "what are you? Gay?". it's one thing if we live by ourselves, but we don't, we live together in society. 

Really mate, don't you think that's a bit of an overstatement! I assume you are focusing on hollywood which is predominantly an american industry. And even in there I don't feel that all asian roles are being changed to whites. I admit I haven't done a lot of background reading to this issue but even so I can tell you several movies that had asian actors in leading roles. How about Jackie Chan who's had several great flicks in hollywood like rush hour, forbidden kingdom etc. Or Bruce lee who's phenomenal enough and is on the hollywood walk of fame. There are several other great actors like Ken Watanabe, Zang Ziyi, kim jeong etc with good roles to their name.

[Battlebloodmage]

You're giving a very selective answer while maintaining that "all" behaviors can be classified into two. How about if I ordered a mojito or had some tea or coffee, would that be stereotypical as well. How about being partial to hamburgers, is that masculine or feminine? Or getting tattooed, yes there are stereotypical tattoos as you might point out, but there are also plenty of tattoos and behaviors that defy any classification or stereotype. 

 

Really mate, don't you think that's a bit of an overstatement! I assume you are focusing on hollywood which is predominantly an american industry. And even in there I don't feel that all asian roles are being changed to whites. I admit I haven't done a lot of background reading to this issue but even so I can tell you several movies that had asian actors in leading roles. How about Jackie Chan who's had several great flicks in hollywood like rush hour, forbidden kingdom etc. Or Bruce lee who's phenomenal enough and is on the hollywood walk of fame. There are several other great actors like Ken Watanabe, Zang Ziyi, kim jeong etc with good roles to their name.

Yes to all of the above, certain drinks are being viewed as girly drinks.

 

You mean stereotype into Kung Fu movies or act as weirdo or effeminate like with Kim Jeong and Bobby Lee? Where was the last time Asian guys get the leading roles in a non-kungfu movie? Where they are being viewed as heroic and desirable or in a romantic rom-com? If you want a list: The Last Airbender, Chun-Li, Speedracer, 47 Ronin, 21, Dragon Ball, Ghost in the Shell, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, etc. When a movie which doesn't involve Kung-Fu, they got changed to White. Even Kung-fu, they want to make a movie about Bruce Lee, but they don't want to isolate the audience, so they want to tell the story from the perspective of a White guy learning about Bruce Lee. It's very rare to see Asians in heroic role or getting the girl in the end, the last movie I can name would be Harold and Kumar. 

[Jalepeno Fire]

Yes to all of the above, certain drinks are being viewed as girly drinks.

 

You mean stereotype into Kung Fu movies or act as weirdo or effeminate like with Kim Jeong and Bobby Lee? Where was the last time Asian guys get the leading roles in a non-kungfu movie? Where they are being viewed as heroic and desirable or in a romantic rom-com? If you want a list: The Last Airbender, Chun-Li, Speedracer, 47 Ronin, 21, Dragon Ball, Ghost in the Shell, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, etc. When a movie which doesn't involve Kung-Fu, they got changed to White. Even Kung-fu, they want to make a movie about Bruce Lee, but they don't want to isolate the audience, so they want to tell the story from the perspective of a White guy learning about Bruce Lee. It's very rare to see Asians in heroic role or getting the girl in the end, the last movie I can name would be Harold and Kumar. 

I'm like half asleep right now but if we're talking tv shows I feel like I have to point out Steven Yeun as Glenn Rhee in the Walking Dead, 2nd main male character since the start of the show. I think his character definitely falls into the category of 'heroic and desirable'. 

 

For the record he just got the leading role in a non-Kung-Fu movie, terrible as it the synopsis sounds. 

 

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm like half asleep right now but if we're talking tv shows I feel like I have to point out Steven Yeun as Glenn Rhee in the Walking Dead, 2nd main male character since the start of the show. I think his character definitely falls into the category of 'heroic and desirable'. 

 

For the record he just got the leading role in a non-Kung-Fu movie, terrible as it the synopsis sounds. 

 

I was talking about movies, but I guess TV helps, too, to improve images in general. He also gets the benefits of existing already in the comic before the TV adaptation. Hopefully more will follow, maybe more Asian actors in TV will influence more Hollywood decisions to have them as more desirable roles and stop whitewashing characters. More of Glenn type is what I want in movies in general. 

[Teabaggin Krogan]

Yes to all of the above, certain drinks are being viewed as girly drinks.

 

You mean stereotype into Kung Fu movies or act as weirdo or effeminate like with Kim Jeong and Bobby Lee? Where was the last time Asian guys get the leading roles in a non-kungfu movie? Where they are being viewed as heroic and desirable or in a romantic rom-com? If you want a list: The Last Airbender, Chun-Li, Speedracer, 47 Ronin, 21, Dragon Ball, Ghost in the Shell, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, etc. When a movie which doesn't involve Kung-Fu, they got changed to White. Even Kung-fu, they want to make a movie about Bruce Lee, but they don't want to isolate the audience, so they want to tell the story from the perspective of a White guy learning about Bruce Lee. It's very rare to see Asians in heroic role or getting the girl in the end, the last movie I can name would be Harold and Kumar. 

 Yes? You aren't giving a tangible answer, some drinks being viewed as girly doesn't make all of them subject to stereotype. Please elaborate on how all the options I mentioned can be stereotyped and as what.

 

Sure, Ken Watanabe in Inception and the Last samurai. Memories of a geisha, rinko kikuchi from pacific rim etc to name a few. Also the movies you mentioned like Last airbender, 47 ronin, dragon ball(oh lawd!) are absolute **** in my honest opinion. Chun Li had a movie! Also Iron man?? And isn't the whole Dr strange issue mostly something about some tibet and china politics or something. I agree on that point alone though, I'd have preferred a bearded asian wise man rather than bald Tilda Swinton.

 

Also you're specifically concentrating on the hollywood industry, there's plenty of phenomenal movies out there from korea, japan etc like Old Boy, Toshiro Mifune's Seven Samurai and the other Kurosawa movies like Ran and Kagemusha. There's plenty more but these are the ones I'm familiar with. So it's unfair to say that there are no good movies with asians when you're looking at it with a rather selective focus. 

[Battlebloodmage]

 Yes? You aren't giving a tangible answer, some drinks being viewed as girly doesn't make all of them subject to stereotype. Please elaborate on how all the options I mentioned can be stereotyped and as what.

 

Sure, Ken Watanabe in Inception and the Last samurai. Memories of a geisha, rinko kikuchi from pacific rim etc to name a few. Also the movies you mentioned like Last airbender, 47 ronin, dragon ball(oh lawd!) are absolute **** in my honest opinion. Chun Li had a movie! Also Iron man?? And isn't the whole Dr strange issue mostly something about some tibet and china politics or something. I agree on that point alone though, I'd have preferred a bearded asian wise man rather than bald Tilda Swinton.

 

Also you're specifically concentrating on the hollywood industry, there's plenty of phenomenal movies out there from korea, japan etc like Old Boy, Toshiro Mifune's Seven Samurai and the other Kurosawa movies like Ran and Kagemusha. There's plenty more but these are the ones I'm familiar with. So it's unfair to say that there are no good movies with asians when you're looking at it with a rather selective focus. 

Agree to disagree then, I don't know what else to tell you on the first point, and I'm losing interests in talking about it. 

 

I'm talking about leading roles here. Most of the Asian roles are ok to be kept as support. There's a reason why they change races on Goku and all the main four characters in the Last Airbender, but keep other supporting as Asians. Anyway, their quality is not the issue here, the issue here is that their roles are being changed to White. I'm talking about Hollywood because I live in America, and it's a problem in America where the portrayal is affecting Asians due to stereotypes. How they portray in other countries don't affect the perception of stereotypes of how other Asians are being treated in America. The point I was bringing up is about how the media in America affecting the stereotypes and perception of people in America. 

[Teabaggin Krogan]

Agree to disagree then, I don't know what else to tell you on the first point, and I'm losing interests in talking about it. 

 

I'm talking about leading roles here. Most of the Asian roles are ok to be kept as support. There's a reason why they change races on Goku and all the main four characters in the Last Airbender, but keep other supporting as Asians. Anyway, their quality is not the issue here, the issue here is that their roles are being changed to White. I'm talking about Hollywood because I live in America, and it's a problem in America where the portrayal is affecting Asians due to stereotypes. How they portray in other countries don't affect the perception of stereotypes of how other Asians are being treated in America. The point I was bringing up is about how the media in America affecting the stereotypes and perception of people in America. 

Sure you believe what you wanna believe mate. Lol at losing interest. 

 

Um pacific rim had the major female lead as an asian, same with Memories of a Geisha. You hadn't specified that you were focusing on america and hence my examples of foreign films but never mind.  And while I agree that there might not be as many roles by asians in major roles as should be ideal, how is that affecting the way asians are being treated? You mentioned dating aspects, so do you mean to say that this makes asians less attractive or something? Because that's highly subjective and how attractive you find someone is a matter of personal taste and varies between people.  Please elaborate more if you haven't lost interest. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Sure you believe what you wanna believe mate. Lol at losing interest. 

 

Um pacific rim had the major female lead as an asian, same with Memories of a Geisha. You hadn't specified that you were focusing on america and hence my examples of foreign films but never mind.  And while I agree that there might not be as many roles by asians in major roles as should be ideal, how is that affecting the way asians are being treated? You mentioned dating aspects, so do you mean to say that this makes asians less attractive or something? Because that's highly subjective and how attractive you find someone is a matter of personal taste and varies between people.  Please elaborate more if you haven't lost interest. 

Sure, it's the internet, I don't take it too seriously, if I don't like a discussion, I just stop talking about it. Think of it however you want. That's my point, I believe what I want, you believe what you want, mate, agree to disagree. 

 

It's the perception. People are being raised by the media, being told what's attractive. You mentioned female Asian leads, but that's usually the case with the whole sex appeal. If there's a chance for keeping the same race it's usually with Asian women. You know that 47 Ronins wouldn't have make it to the big screen if it wasn't for changing the focus away from the Asians? Look it up. The same thing happens with the Bruce Lee movie where they switch the perspective to a White guy. In the movie Romeo Must Die, the Asian guy kisses the girl at the end, but they changed it to a hug due to the negative response from the audience. Just tell me, when was the last time you see an Asian male lead in a non-kung fu movie? Asian males are being the viewed as the least desirable in the dating world, looking up statistic on dating on Tinders or Grindr where they specify "no fat, no Asian, no fem". The way we view attractiveness changes depend on cultures and shaped by society. Slim women are what being considered as desirable by society, but back in the day, it was fuller women. In Africa, thick women are actually viewed as beautiful. In ancient China, they bound their women's feet until they deformed. In the West, it's about muscular men, but in Asian countries like Japan, it's about thin and toned. The standard of beauty changes accordingly by society. Asian males in the media are being portrayed as effeminate and undesirable. Movies with Asians got changed to White exactly because Asians are being viewed as less desirable and people don't want to see Asians on films. This is a catch-22 where Asians don't get taken seriously as lead because people don't think America like to see Asians while Asians don't get a chance to prove their worth because there is no role for them. It's basically a perpetual cycle. I have a lot of family members believe that being gay means you act effeminate or there needs to be a fem and masculine guy in a gay relationship. It's basically the misconception due to how the see gays in the media. If you don't encounter a lot of people who are under those stereotypes, it's likely to affect how you view them. 

 

If you want to discuss this, we could do this through PM since it's getting off topic and I don't want this thread to get locked, and choose a time where we can discuss this constantly since I don't like checking every hour for a reply. It throws me off my pace since I get distracted easily. I can put more thoughts into it as well, but it's up to you if you want to continue this discussion, I guess. One of my threads got deleted for off-topic, I don't want it to happen to this one as well. 

[GeneralXIV]

Haha I didnt mean that having a relationship with an alien wasnt taboo (even though it isnt)... I meant the other thing. Just ignore me haha xx

[Jedi Comedian]

I vote for a Renegade male Drell Vanguard gangster who happens to be gay.