1472 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Comedian]

Haha. True. But we aren't exactly lacking for representation.

I'm more interested in the ability to romance who the player wants than representation. I think DA2 did this rather well (I would've traded Merrill for Aveline and made Anders not justify his man loving though).

[Jedi Comedian]

I'm more interested in the ability to romance who the player wants than representation. I think DA2 did this rather well (I would've traded Merrill for Aveline and made Anders not justify his man loving though).

Maybe some would say Aveline is another Carth Syndrome case, but I always thought they did the deceased partner thing better with her than, say, Carth and Thane.

[Catfishers]

I'm more interested in the ability to romance who the player wants than representation. I think DA2 did this rather well (I would've traded Merrill for Aveline and made Anders not justify his man loving though).

I totally agree about Anders.

And I'm not suggesting we go about ticking boxes and meeting quotas. I just think that if you're going to have same-sex romance options in a game, you'd better have the polite good sense to actually make those characters gay or lesbian or bisexual. Not just say that everyone is into the player and call it a day.

[Catilina]

I'm more interested in the ability to romance who the player wants than representation. I think DA2 did this rather well (I would've traded Merrill for Aveline and made Anders not justify his man loving though).

(What's wrong with Anders? Except that he does not reveal his relationship with Karl if you romance him with female Hawke.)

Modifié par Catilina, 12 juin 2016 - 11:52 .

[Catfishers]

(What's wrong with Anders?)

His writing was a little iffy. Despite being the only character in DA2 to be legitimately (or, somewhat openly within the game) bisexual, he REALLY downplays his relationships with men if you romance him as a female Hawke. The writers should have just accepted that he was bisexual in canon rather than trying to cover it up for a female PC.

[Catilina]

(Yeah, true. In the meantime, I corrected to my original post.)

[Jedi Comedian]

(What's wrong with Anders? Except that he does not reveal his relationship with Karl if you romance him with female Hawke.)

What I don't like about Andy (make no mistake, I do like him overall) happens right after the quest "Tranquility": asks you if you have a problem with his sexuality, and if you flirt with him he says it's strange seeing a man hitting on another openly, implying male homosexuality is somewhat frown upon.

Last but not least, he flirts with you when the corpse of his lover is still warm (I don't think even Zev would do that).

All of this could be a Justice thing though, I don't know.

Since Fenris is about the angst since the very beggining, he's a far superior LI in my book.

[LiaraShepard]

Last but not least, he flirts with you when the corpse of his lover is still warm (I don't think even Zev would do that).
 

 

I've undestood it this way, that he and Carl were ex-lovers for some time but they weren't together anymore when you'd met them.

[Catilina]

What I don't like about Andy (make no mistake, I do like him overall) happens right after the quest "Tranquility": asks you if you have a problem with his sexuality, and if you flirt with him he says it's strange seeing a man hitting on another openly, implying male homosexuality is somewhat frown upon.

Last but not least, he flirts with you when the corpse of his lover is still warm (I don't think even Zev would do that).

All of this could be a Justice thing though, I don't know.

(1. From this perspective Fenris' romance also has badly written: after the bed scene Hawke asked Fenris, whether the problem is that he is a man – diplomatic option. I hope will be no more stupid mistake in the next games...

 

 2. This was not a fresh love, a few years ago it has ended, and not he flirts with Hawke, but Hawke flirt with him – if you choose that option.)

[Jedi Comedian]

(1. From this perspective Fenris' romance also has badly written: after the bed scene Hawke asked Fenris, whether the problem is that he is a man... I hope will be no more stupid mistake in the next games...

Yeah I remember that unfortunate line, but at least it was just one... it's almost as if most DA m/m romances were intended for bi-curious characters...

[Catilina]

Yeah I remember that unfortunate line, but at least it was just one... it's almost as if most DA m/m romances were intended for bi-curious characters...

No excuse for the illogical response ... 

[Jedi Comedian]

No excuse for the illogical response ...

True, there's no logic in what Hawke said when they have ALREADY drilled each other LOL.

[Catilina]

True, there's no logic in what Hawke said when they have ALREADY drilled each other LOL.

(Specifically, I thought, that they have known each other for ~3 years, and during that time Fenris had to take notice, that Hawke a man, but it is also a consideration ...  )

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

I totally agree about Anders.

And I'm not suggesting we go about ticking boxes and meeting quotas. I just think that if you're going to have same-sex romance options in a game, you'd better have the polite good sense to actually make those characters gay or lesbian or bisexual. Not just say that everyone is into the player and call it a day.

I believe they did state that all the LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Not just 'player sexual' . It was after the fact of course, but I'm fairly certain that's the case.

[Catfishers]

I believe they did state that all the LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Not just 'player sexual' . It was after the fact of course, but I'm fairly certain that's the case.

 

 

Yeah, as far as I know, that's correct. And, personally, I do interpret them all as being bisexual.

That said, sadly, I really don't feel like they were written that way. 

[daveliam]

Maybe some would say Aveline is another Carth Syndrome case, but I always thought they did the deceased partner thing better with her than, say, Carth and Thane.

 

Yeah, for what it's worth, I think that Aveline was a much better example of a character finding love after losing her spouse.  Her whole romance arc with Donnic was more about her going after what she wants and learning how to be more romantic in a meaningful way than it was about her getting over Wesley's death.  Carth Syndrome, for me, is when a widowed character gets over the loss of his/her spouse through the actions of the PC and is then able to 'find love again', almost always with the PC.  Steve is a great example of a more recent "Carth Syndrome" character.  I also think that Jaheira (who was actually the first), Carth (obviously), Sky, and Thane are examples.  Aveline wouldn't fall into this, in my opinion, because she already had dealt with Wesley's death.  Her relationship with Donnic didn't force her to deal with her loss.  If that makes sense.

[DreamerM]

Is this the place to say that one of my biggest problems with the MA universe is that, while there's no options for a male/male alien romance... f/f alien romance isn't just present, it's almost the default?

My first ever Fem-Shep run-through of Mass Effect, I romanced Kaiden, which seemed like the path of least resistence....  Then the stuff with Liara happened and... maybe this is just me but...I was really nice to Liara, and she was SO SURPRISED when I didn't want to enter a romantic relationship with her.

Not only that, but the constant background noise about how EVERYONE finds the Asari so hot, regardless of race, and their defining traits are living forever and being able to read minds and have babies with everything and everyone...

....It just makes me feel weird. It makes me uncomfortable. Sure, gay aliens may not exist, but *these* aliens that just happen to all look like big-boobed hot women who will have sex with anything and who everyone finds atttractive.... What does this even mean?

[Jedi Comedian]

Is this the place to say that one of my biggest problems with the MA universe is that, while there's no options for a male/male alien romance... f/f alien romance isn't just present, it's almost the default?

My first ever Fem-Shep run-through of Mass Effect, I romanced Kaiden, which seemed like the path of least resistence.... Then the stuff with Liara happened and... maybe this is just me but...I was really nice to Liara, and she was SO SURPRISED when I didn't want to enter a romantic relationship with her.

Not only that, but the constant background noise about how EVERYONE finds the Asari so hot, regardless of race, and their defining traits are living forever and being able to read minds and have babies with everything and everyone...

....It just makes me feel weird. It makes me uncomfortable. Sure, gay aliens may not exist, but *these* aliens that just happen to all look like big-boobed hot women who will have sex with anything and who everyone finds atttractive.... What does this even mean?

I wonder that myself.

[Battlebloodmage]

Is this the place to say that one of my biggest problems with the MA universe is that, while there's no options for a male/male alien romance... f/f alien romance isn't just present, it's almost the default?

My first ever Fem-Shep run-through of Mass Effect, I romanced Kaiden, which seemed like the path of least resistence....  Then the stuff with Liara happened and... maybe this is just me but...I was really nice to Liara, and she was SO SURPRISED when I didn't want to enter a romantic relationship with her.

Not only that, but the constant background noise about how EVERYONE finds the Asari so hot, regardless of race, and their defining traits are living forever and being able to read minds and have babies with everything and everyone...

....It just makes me feel weird. It makes me uncomfortable. Sure, gay aliens may not exist, but *these* aliens that just happen to all look like big-boobed hot women who will have sex with anything and who everyone finds atttractive.... What does this even mean?

It seems like the developers are projecting themselves on the Asari race, where they design exotic alien women with boobs windows and model body where they assume everyone would be into them because they're attracted to them and they were designed to be attractive from their point of view. It's not bad per se, but I feel like they should using perspective from a more non-humans and outsider perspective from what other races, genders, and the likes may see the race as. 

[Jedi Comedian]

After watching the Trailer, THIS is the one and only LI list I want:

- 1 straight female Human Infiltrator.

- 1 bi Asari Vanguard.

- 1 bi male Drell Adept.

ALL OF THEM SQUADIES.

[dgcatanisiri]

Is this the place to say that one of my biggest problems with the MA universe is that, while there's no options for a male/male alien romance... f/f alien romance isn't just present, it's almost the default?

My first ever Fem-Shep run-through of Mass Effect, I romanced Kaiden, which seemed like the path of least resistence....  Then the stuff with Liara happened and... maybe this is just me but...I was really nice to Liara, and she was SO SURPRISED when I didn't want to enter a romantic relationship with her.

Not only that, but the constant background noise about how EVERYONE finds the Asari so hot, regardless of race, and their defining traits are living forever and being able to read minds and have babies with everything and everyone...

....It just makes me feel weird. It makes me uncomfortable. Sure, gay aliens may not exist, but *these* aliens that just happen to all look like big-boobed hot women who will have sex with anything and who everyone finds atttractive.... What does this even mean?

 

The asari were explicitly designed to be love interests. And when I say that, I mean it's all over the art books and such - it's said repeatedly, they wanted the asari to be attractive as love interests. So yeah, enjoy your look at the attractions and psyche of the BioWare designers involved. That's what it means, this is what they want to sleep with.

 

I'm not exactly a fan of what that has meant for the asari, by the way. They have, from the beginning, been reduced to what the BioWare designers want to have sex with, rather than actually giving focus on their culture. Remember how Liara's conversations in ME1 were basically about asari sex? There is so much that could have been done with them, but their biggest role in the series is as love interests and sex objects. It's why I really want to see an asari companion in Andromeda who is not romanceable, though I recognize the unlikelihood of that.

[Jedi Comedian]

The KOTOR approach was my favourite, though, having a single gay character in your party makes you apreciate him/her more, and it's more realistic.

[Battlebloodmage]

The KOTOR approach was my favourite, though, having a single gay character in your party makes you apreciate him/her more, and it's more realistic.

Or you can just focus on that one and just let everyone have 2 options. Why not make straight characters have 1 character so they can appreciate them? Dorian turned my character straight. 

[Jedi Comedian]

Or you can just focus on that one and just let everyone have 2 options. Why not make straight characters have 1 character so they can appreciate them? Dorian turned my character straight.

Now if only Cass looked like in DA2...

[vbibbi]

Yeah, for what it's worth, I think that Aveline was a much better example of a character finding love after losing her spouse.  Her whole romance arc with Donnic was more about her going after what she wants and learning how to be more romantic in a meaningful way than it was about her getting over Wesley's death.  Carth Syndrome, for me, is when a widowed character gets over the loss of his/her spouse through the actions of the PC and is then able to 'find love again', almost always with the PC.  Steve is a great example of a more recent "Carth Syndrome" character.  I also think that Jaheira (who was actually the first), Carth (obviously), Sky, and Thane are examples.  Aveline wouldn't fall into this, in my opinion, because she already had dealt with Wesley's death.  Her relationship with Donnic didn't force her to deal with her loss.  If that makes sense.

 

Plus Aveline's story was barely about Wesley and mostly about her identity in Kirkwall and the guards. It was a nice touch where she obviously still remembers Wesley when she has the conversation about his shield when we give her a new one, but she does not make frequent references to him. I see it more as something she and Hawke have in common, loss from the Blight, rather than a focal point of her character.

 

Aveline really is one of my favorite DA2 characters. She is such a well-rounded, realistic character.