1472 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

Nothing warms my heart like a Cassandra love-fest.

[Blank-Slate-Blues]

Do you want a romance with a humanoid alien?

Why not a human?

Do you like another skin colors? Green?

 

People love Liara mainly because she looks like a woman with blue skin. 

If she was different, will people romance her?

 

What type of alien do you want?

 

There's nothing wrong with a human romance per se, but for me personally, I've always liked inter-species/racial relationships in fantasy and science fiction. Often times these sorts of relationships come with the potential to explore a relationship within different cultural contexts, and how it affects not just the characters but their respective societies. When I learned that Turians and humans had a shaky history and that Garrus was a love interest in ME2 my interest was definitely piqued. I'm a bit sad they didn't fully explore what difficulties the two would face, or fully how the two species treat romantic relationships, but hey it was damn cute.

 

As for which alien I would want, I've said this before - and setting aside new Andromedan species - but it's about damn time we got a Batarian squadmate. We've seen sympathetic Batarians before, but those were only glimpses and for the most part the species has been strikingly one note in game - and from a company - that often plays with the expectations of their settings. Heck, Bioware's been doing this since Baldur's gate with Viconia, a Drow who was very much a bad person but still sympathetic, and could even become a better person in some instances. 

 

This isn't necessarily a call for a Batarian LI (actually it is because why not?) but having a Batarian on our main squad opens up some fun plot lines, since their species has been antagonistic for the majority of the series, especially with a human protagonist, a person from a species they have butted heads with a lot in Mass Effect. I very much doubt that this will ever happen, since this is a new galaxy and there's a lot against the Batarian species actually appearing in the game at all, but it's something I'd like to see.

 

And yeah, there's a definite aesthetic attraction. I'm just more drawn to what's atypical as opposed to familiarity, physically or psychologically. Even when that difference isn't designed to be "pretty", in most cases.

 

As for Liara, and Asari in general, it's really just because, for me, I tend to avoid the "typical' (perhaps designated?) love interest when I have a choice. And Liara, and really Asari in general, are designed to be love interests and that sort of thing just rubs me the wrong way. It's the same reason I didn't romance Kaidan as well, because it felt like the game was pushing me into this relationship and I hate being told what to do. And yeah, Asari are visually boring as an alien race. if Asari were designed with a different intent in mind - from how they looked to their place in the setting - I'd be less... annoyed with them. There are interesting ideas there, but none of them involve Asari being love interests.

 

Oh god, this response got long and rambly.

[The Twilight God]

There is a confirmed Varren romance. So there you go.

[Battlebloodmage]

There is a confirmed Varren romance. So there you go.

You're so funny. Everyone ever told you that?

[The Twilight God]

Yes, everyone. How did you know?

[Dani100]

His romance wasn't all that romantic, it's a very gay conscious relationship with the no string attached sex, closeted and avoiding telling people that you guys are in a relationship when returning his item, and gay conversion. His relationship just seems pretty angsty and place too much emphasis on his orientation as opposed to just being in a romantic relationship for my liking. You don't see lesbian characters like Sera or Samantha having these angsty problem.

For those of us that prefer to play as Dalish, the Sera romance was full of angst. The Sam romance didn't have angst but there were some issues with the character that were rather frustrating for many of us but I'm not going to rehash it, it's been talked about enough. I will say that some of the conversations with her were very cute and her voice was awesome.

[jlb524]

I think the lesbian romances had the opposite problem...where their sexuality wasn't addressed at all.   Sera mentions nothing (which is odd considering how City Elves are all about hetero arranged marriages).  It might not have affected her personally but it's weird she wouldn't have an opinion on it being a lesbian.  She surely has opinions on all the other bad things elfy-elves do/believe.

 

Samantha's was just, idk, some porn-lite scene and maybe one more romantic dialog after that?  I don't remember much more about it.

 

It's as if sexuality with lesbian romances is not seriously taken at all and it's too much of a focus with the gay male ones they've written.    Which seems about like real life.

[Jedi Comedian]

There is a confirmed Varren romance. So there you go.

Varren MILF? Varren incest? Be specific.

[The Twilight God]

GILF

[Who Knows]

I see a couple reasons for the number of "gay angst" in the M/M romances so far (I think it's mostly just Dragon Age though).

 

One, in society you could argue that relationships between men are treated as more gross/unacceptable/taboo/etc than relationships between women. Doesn't mean that homophobia doesn't exist towards relationships between women, far from that, but I think it's something that can be argued. This can be reflected intentionally or unintentionally in the writing.

 

Two, most of the M/M love interests in Dragon Age were written by David Gaider, a gay man. Doesn't have to mean anything, but he may put in some of his own experiences as a gay man (or knowledge of other gay men's experiences) into his writing. Gay conversion is a thing actually attempted in a real life, and didn't need to be part of Dragon Age yet it was. Or maybe that's just how he likes to write or how he just happened to write them, and because he wrote most of the M/M characters/romances it looks like a trope.

 

I notice those dialog options where the male player character can express discomfort at the thought of men being with men. I am fairly sure (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't an equivalent for the female player character. You can say you're not interested in Leliana the person but at no point does she ever ask you if women with women grosses you out.

 

I'm not against those options existing entirely (after all, you can be an asshat in other ways) but it's definitely lopsided if not one sided. Which gives me either the impression that in-lore relationships between women is more accepted than relationships between men or that some biases from the writers/etc came into play.

[Lebanese Dude]

She's just hit the all the right notes with what people like in a gay male romance. Let's say that she's a guy, he would be a KISA, annoyed that you break military regulation and flirting with him, deep down, he's a hopeless romance, but he likes to keep up a strong front, he's also a plot relevant and important LI alongside Solas. Yeah, Cassandra is what I want in a gay male romance. 

 

Exactly.

[Who Knows]

If Cassandra didn't gush about the Maker every second sentence I'd like her a good amount more.

 

Actually, that's partly why I didn't like Cullen.

[Catilina]

If Cassandra didn't gush about the Maker every second sentence I'd like her a good amount more.

 

Actually, that's partly why I didn't like Cullen.

Cullen would be pretty good for my moderate Andrastian Trevelyan mage...

[Panda]

I notice those dialog options where the male player character can express discomfort at the thought of men being with men. I am fairly sure (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't an equivalent for the female player character. You can say you're not interested in Leliana the person but at no point does she ever ask you if women with women grosses you out.

 

I'm not against those options existing entirely (after all, you can be an asshat in other ways) but it's definitely lopsided if not one sided. Which gives me either the impression that in-lore relationships between women is more accepted than relationships between men or that some biases from the writers/etc came into play.

 

Yes, I have gotten this vibe as well. Zevran asks quite carefully if your character is into men in the first place and you get to answer that. I don't remember Leliana having dialogue like that at all. Anders also brings up the topic to male Hawke.

[R0bE0]

If Cassandra didn't gush about the Maker every second sentence I'd like her a good amount more.

 

Actually, that's partly why I didn't like Cullen.

 

I like arguing with her with as my Inquisitors (both of which are atheist). It adds a lot more to her character arc to have someone she believes in as a messiah actively dissuade her beliefs. Even romancing her with that adds more layers to it.

 

Or that's what I thought anyways.

[Biotic Apostate]

I notice those dialog options where the male player character can express discomfort at the thought of men being with men. I am fairly sure (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't an equivalent for the female player character. You can say you're not interested in Leliana the person but at no point does she ever ask you if women with women grosses you out.

 

I'm not against those options existing entirely (after all, you can be an asshat in other ways) but it's definitely lopsided if not one sided. Which gives me either the impression that in-lore relationships between women is more accepted than relationships between men or that some biases from the writers/etc came into play.

Yes, I have gotten this vibe as well. Zevran asks quite carefully if your character is into men in the first place and you get to answer that. I don't remember Leliana having dialogue like that at all. Anders also brings up the topic to male Hawke.

I've actually mentioned that recently in an Anders thread. It's hard to say, whether Hawke's ("You—and Karl?" and "I just had…never considered…") and the Inquisitor's ("I'll need you to explain that" to Dorian) lines (and many more) can be accepted as lore-compliant information on the attitudes in Thedas and how prevalent male same-sex couples are, or is this a side effect of the writers giving a role playing options for players, who would be opposed to gay relationships or just surprised by them.

 

It doesn't come up in f/f romances, so I'm inclined to say it's less about Thedas, and more about real life attitudes. The approach seems to have shifted a little (compare Zevran's shy approach and comment about open-mindedness, Anders' "Why would you shy away from loving someone, just because they’re like you?", and Dorian's annoyed "Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex."). The player still has an option to be surprised or say "I don't want to see that," but the games are becoming less lenient about the response to that.

 

ME, at least in the third game, established gay (male) relationships as something normal, but it did take not so accepting players under consideration - Steve had a whooping 3 checks and a paragon interrupt, before locking you in the romance, which was simply excessive. I hope MEA takes a more balanced approach to it.

[Battlebloodmage]

For those of us that prefer to play as Dalish, the Sera romance was full of angst. The Sam romance didn't have angst but there were some issues with the character that were rather frustrating for many of us but I'm not going to rehash it, it's been talked about enough. I will say that some of the conversations with her were very cute and her voice was awesome.

Their angst is less of the result of her sexuality but result of her character and perceived self-hatred of her race. I don't mind angst as long as they're independent of their sexuality.

[Battlebloodmage]

I think the lesbian romances had the opposite problem...where their sexuality wasn't addressed at all.   Sera mentions nothing (which is odd considering how City Elves are all about hetero arranged marriages).  It might not have affected her personally but it's weird she wouldn't have an opinion on it being a lesbian.  She surely has opinions on all the other bad things elfy-elves do/believe.

 

Samantha's was just, idk, some porn-lite scene and maybe one more romantic dialog after that?  I don't remember much more about it.

 

It's as if sexuality with lesbian romances is not seriously taken at all and it's too much of a focus with the gay male ones they've written.    Which seems about like real life.

Wait,you want them to show discrimination toward lesbians as well? I like when sexuality is being treated the same as opposite relationship like there is nothing wrong with it. If non-straight relationship isn't a taboo then isn't it good that it's not mentioned at all?

[vbibbi]

If Cassandra didn't gush about the Maker every second sentence I'd like her a good amount more.

 

Actually, that's partly why I didn't like Cullen.

 

But it's the perfect excuse for me to say "Where is your Maker now?!" during smush smush!

[jlb524]

Wait,you want them to show discrimination toward lesbians as well? I like when sexuality is being treated the same as opposite relationship like there is nothing wrong with it. If non-straight relationship isn't a taboo then isn't it good that it's not mentioned at all?

 

 Within the DA setting, they are still treated different in some cases.  With my example, city elves force opposite sex marriages on their young.   But mentioning sexuality doesn't have to be in context of discrimination anyway and not quite what I was thinking.

[Battlebloodmage]

 Within the DA setting, they are still treated different in some cases.  With my example, city elves force opposite sex marriages on their young.   But mentioning sexuality doesn't have to be in context of discrimination anyway and not quite what I was thinking.

I think they're just drawing inspiration from the real world. Gays are disgusting since straight guys find them disgusting, but lesbians are being sexualized as "hot", so there isn't a stigma against them in the society to the extend of gay guys. How many times do people said they're against homosexuality but they only mentioned gay guys? It's not that they're against homosexuality, they're against male homosexuality. Remember that the insults toward lesbians are "butch" and "******" which indicate that they're unattractive and manly, meaning that they're undesirable toward straight guys. I guess if there were discrimination toward lesbians, it has to be using context and very situational, and the developers may have to consciously make a story about that. Remember that the writers and developers are often straight guys that write these stories. Unless I'm missing something, both Sera and Samantha writers are straight guys. I don't think discrimination is something cross their mind while writing lesbian characters. People draw from their experience, so if they see lesbians as hot and don't have the perspective of lesbians in society, the story may mostly just be able lesbians falling in love and having hot sex. Is it good? Is it bad? I would have prefer for gay relationship to move away from the gay discrimination. The society in Thedas is discriminatory because they make it so, targeting specifically gay males when they need to show how discriminatory they are toward homosexuality. They're using male homosexuality as a victim to tell a life lesson in a way. Is it for the sake of the homosexual players? Showing them how terrible life is for them in this fictional world they created? Is it in order to appear progressive, playing the white knights showing how discrimination toward gays is wrong? I know that they have good intention, but at the end of the day, they need to remember why they created those contents in the first place and who they are aiming those contents at. 

[Sigzy05]

But it's the perfect excuse for me to say "Where is your Maker now?!" during smush smush!

 

Lol. There is not even an actual maker sitting on a throne in DA...just a bunch of old immortal super magical bitchy elves that wanted to rule the world, banned to the veil. I took Cassandra there but she was like "Nah there's gotta be someone named Maker here".

[vbibbi]

Lol. There is not even an actual maker sitting on a throne in DA...just a bunch of old immortal super magical bitchy elves that wanted to rule the world, banned to the veil. I took Cassandra there but she was like "Nah there's gotta be someone named Maker here".

 

Well if you believe Leliana's version, the Make is all around us...watching...even in the bedroom.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well if you believe Leliana's version, the Make is all around us...watching...even in the bedroom.

I think she meant Santa. 

[jlb524]

I think they're just drawing inspiration from the real world. Gays are disgusting since straight guys find them disgusting, but lesbians are being sexualized as "hot", so there isn't a stigma against them in the society to the extend of gay guys. How many times do people said they're against homosexuality but they only mentioned gay guys? It's not that they're against homosexuality, they're against male homosexuality. Remember that the insults toward lesbians are "butch" and "******" which indicate that they're unattractive and manly, meaning that they're undesirable toward straight guys. I guess if there were discrimination toward lesbians, it has to be using context and very situational, and the developers may have to consciously make a story about that. Remember that the writers and developers are often straight guys that write these stories. Unless I'm missing something, both Sera and Samantha writers are straight guys. I don't think discrimination is something cross their mind while writing lesbian characters. People draw from their experience, so if they see lesbians as hot and don't have the perspective of lesbians in society, the story may mostly just be able lesbians falling in love and having hot sex. Is it good? Is it bad? I would have prefer for gay relationship to move away from the gay discrimination. The society in Thedas is discriminatory because they make it so, targeting specifically gay males when they need to show how discriminatory they are toward homosexuality. They're using male homosexuality as a victim to tell a life lesson in a way. Is it for the sake of the homosexual players? Showing them how terrible life is for them in this fictional world they created? Is it in order to appear progressive, playing the white knights showing how discrimination toward gays is wrong? I know that they have good intention, but at the end of the day, they need to remember why they created those contents in the first place and who they are aiming those contents at. 

 

I know this is contrary to popular opinion, but 'straight guys think it's hot' isn't a great thing for lesbians.  And there is a stigma against lesbians (like, actual ones that don't ever date men).   But lesbians aren't taken seriously enough to warrant the kind of reaction gay men get, since an idea a lot of people have is that they'll just end up with a guy eventually (b/c they're not really gay).

 

When you say things like:  "How many times do people said they're against homosexuality but they only mentioned gay guys? It's not that they're against homosexuality, they're against male homosexuality."  remember that some of these people don't even think female homosexuality exists.