109 réponses à ce sujet

[caradoc2000]

 

A desire demon to possess Inquisitor's body give him / her new powers.

I will do my cursed dance and scream for you, baby.

 

Cursed dance? Wrong franchise, that one is for Shepard in Mass Effect

[AresKeith]

So, there is one demon type that didn't make it in.  In a game with a lot of violence and mild nudity.  t's not the end of the world, and not the end of the end of their inclusion.

 

Actually it's more than one, Sloth and hunger didn't make it in either

 

It seems like the more intelligent demons (plus hunger ) didn't join the fade rifts

[Grieving Natashina]

Actually it's more than one, Sloth and hunger didn't make it in either

 

It seems like the more intelligent demons (plus hunger ) didn't join the fade rifts

Well, Pride showed up.  

[AresKeith]

Well, Pride showed up.  

 

I'd like to consider Desire and Sloth to be more talkative while Pride is more action than words lol

[Grieving Natashina]

I'd like to consider Desire and Sloth to be more talkative while Pride is more action than words lol

I think Mouse would disagree with that.    I do agree about Desire and Sloth.  Neither of them like direct confrontation.

[AresKeith]

I think Mouse would disagree with that.    I do agree about Desire and Sloth.  Neither of them like direct confrontation.

 

Mouse is low tier anyway

[Grieving Natashina]

Mouse is low tier anyway

He's a Pride demon.  He's already ahead of most of them and Mouse might have been an exception to the rule.  He was bound there for the purpose of testing mages, and probably had had a lot of time to think.  I do agree though that Pride demons as a whole seem to act first and then think things through.  It's probably how so many of them ended up through the Rifts

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, Pride Demons come from corrupting a Wisdom Spirit. Maybe Wisdom Spirits were curious about the world but got sucked through, driving them mad and turning them into Pride Demons. 

[Saphiron123]

I just love how you keep making baseless assumptions because "Bioware doesn't want to offend people" or "pander to sjws"

They aren't assumptions when they're readily observable throughout the game. Face it, aside from sexuality and egnder, dragon age avoided anything that could be construed as offensive. The gore is toned down, the racist overtones towards elves etc are basically absent, there's zero genuine horror or uncomfortable creatures like the broodmothers or desire demons of past games, we don't even see the effects of the three different wars we're embroiled in. It's a war for god's sake, where are the victims? The refugees? The tales of how awful it's been?

The only content that has any real emotional impact is told to us in codex entries, the main game is as sanitized as can be.

Dragon age origins felt like a hard time in bad conditions, where rough things happened to good people and human nature was both good and bad. Inquisition offered none of that, nothing matters, aside from a "mwhahaha the world will end vibe" nothing is urgent. Tempalrs and mages are ravaging the land, we see almost noe vidence of that, Corypheus has a demon army that is apparently slaughtering people left and right, we see a few rifts but rarely the impact on the world, hell, they don't even show us the main battle between our army and corypheus, we just hear about it second hand.

Dragon age inquisition, bad things happen, but you hear about them, you never see them.

[AresKeith]

They aren't assumptions when they're readily observable throughout the game. Face it, aside from sexuality and egnder, dragon age avoided anything that could be construed as offensive. The gore is toned down, the racist overtones towards elves etc are basically absent, there's zero genuine horror or uncomfortable creatures like the broodmothers or desire demons of past games, we don't even see the effects of the three different wars we're embroiled in. It's a war for god's sake, where are the victims? The refugees? The tales of how awful it's been?

 

Now I'm starting to wonder if you actually played the game. You can blow people up and still see blood, nobody seems to care about the elves being killed in the Winter Palace. Why would we see broodmothers when the Darkspawn wasn't a major faction in the game?

 

I agree about the wars being poorly handled but that has nothing to do with the game being "toned down" or "not wanting to be offensive"

[Saphiron123]

Now I'm starting to wonder if you actually played the game. You can blow people up and still see blood, nobody seems to care about the elves being killed in the Winter Palace. Why would we see broodmothers when the Darkspawn wasn't a major faction in the game?

 

I agree about the wars being poorly handled but that has nothing to do with the game being "toned down" or "not wanting to be offensive"

My first playthrough was about 120 hours, i did every single quest in the game down to finding the runes on the walls in the god of secrets quest (yes i fought the reskinned desire demon boss and yes i was totally disappointed by how lame it was after all that build up)... and I said toned down, the facial bloodsplatter is gone, the finishers and decapitations are gone (man i miss those epic dragon kills, now they just slump over), most of the blood effects are gone as well. Yes, the one ability that makes a good bloody show is walking bomb.

But no, I have thousands of posts without even playing it through, because that makes sense... this game is sanitized as hell compared to past games, origins did blood, war, and the broodmother was just an example of an uncomfortable creature, something that makes you think "wow, gross" and mixes horror and sexuality. All gone.

I think they didn't show the battles for a reason. Either they wanted to keep the violence to a  minimum, which is bad, or the writing was simply terrible, which is worse. Choose your poison.

[TheOgre]

@Nat radical feminism is why the UK has made sex with anyone dangerous for lawsuits. The movement is dangerous not just to video games but to actual living lives.

[Grieving Natashina]

I know that the UK has problems that go far beyond radical feminists.  They are just one example, and I know they aren't the only ones that voted initially to put cameras everywhere.  They are one of the several governmental problems in the UK.

 

 I'm not going to sweat about that happening to a North American game company.  There is nothing that can convince me at all that brothels, desire demons, poor hair selection, the features of the female companions, and most on-screen torture were removed in this game because of a few people.  Nope, I'm sorry.  That's Tin Foil Hat right there.  

 

Besides, as Ares pointed out, it's all been just a scapegoat.  It doesn't matter what it has been in relation to this game.  If someone perceived something as anti-feminine, then some folks instantly think that radical feminists here in North America (and abroad) must have pressured BioWare in some way.  Or forced them to change this content based on their views.  Given that we do see some torture (of a popular returning female character, no less;) the fact that we see nudity; a BDSM romance (you don't want to know what a lot of radicals think about that) and the fact that there is violence (with female enemies too!) proves right there that the radicals don't have nearly as much power here as folks like to think.  

 

I think BioWare is going to do what they want, listen to the feedback they want, and isn't worried about the true "Anita's" coming after them or pressuring them.  

 

It sounds like crazy paranoia to really believe that a few gaming journalists and a handful of activists have that much power over BioWare, no offense.

[TheOgre]

It seems to be the new craze aside from the police reports honestly. I feel my paranoia is not without reason. I'll just drop the posts here then.

[Grieving Natashina]

For video games?  I do think it's a bit paranoid.  If you're worried about that happening to our government, make sure you go out and vote every year.  I mean every year, not just presidential years.  Vote for the laws you support and against the laws you don't.  Bills and laws are sometimes rejected by a number literally less than 100, so every vote counts.  That's how you ensure the changes you want and stop bills from becoming law that you don't want.  I really wouldn't worry about what a handful of bloggers and critics might possibly convince BioWare to do.  

 

If you feel a game is going that route, vote the only way you can.  Don't buy it.  All game companies are a business, when it comes down to it.  But looking too deeply into things like no desire demons or brothels as some sort of "proof" that the Sliced Juicy Watermelons or people like Anita are "winning" seems like a good way to drive yourself nuts.

[TheOgre]

Purple demon pride

[Grieving Natashina]

Purple demon pride

Word.  

 

Edit: I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I liked Desire Demons well enough.  I didn't like them as canon fodder (too squishy,) but they were an interesting demon for dialogue.  I'd like to see Desire return in its feminine form and with a masculine form, as well as more different forms of desire (like with the Templar in DA:O that wanted a family)

[Rawgrim]

Except what they represent is not solely sexual despite the impression their demonic model might give to some: "Desire demons use the yearnings of the victims - lust, wealth, power - to their advantage.Their abilities to affect the mind allow them to assume disguises and even alter the enviroment to their purpose. (...) While Desire demons may resort to an outright mind control, they seem to take greater pleasure in more subtle deceit".

 

Desire is: "a sense of longing or hoping for a person, object or outcome" but the desire demon model places an emphasis on desire being sexual desire. I'd argue that while I love the design, it puts too much an emphasis on one aspect which is why I feel a better representation and portrayal of what a desire demon is, is shapeshifting.

 

As an example: take Kitty from Origins' "The Stone Prisoner" - While Kitty was the case of a desire demon trapped in a form, it was a form that worked far better to help her endear herself to Amalia because it was that of a cat who promised companionship and friendship. The desire demon could exploit her form to better assume a personality that Amalia would trust.

 

Mouse from the Mage Origin similarly worked well because of his form and assumed personality: He appeared harmless and tried to strike a connection with the player by posing as a victim of the Harrowing and a fellow mage. While he is implied to be a Pride Demon, his example still holds well in my opinion because even if his motive was not the same, his modus of operandi fitted with how Desire Demons' modus of operandi supposedly is. His manipulations were more or less subtle and when he tried to influence how the player thought of the Circle and its Templars, it came across as making mostly sense because of who he claimed to be. By the end of the Harrowing dream, he tries to use the trust he believes he has built with the player to possess them, trying to make them believe they were strong enough to ressist actual posession.

 

The current desire demon model is very overt and actually sells them short because it primarily emphasises one aspect and depending on who it is attempting to entice, a form that might fail in a lot of situations. It would make little sense for it to assume a form that would cause alert in it's intended victims by presenting itself as clearly something supernatural. A desire demon that employs shapeshifting would work far better: a child could tug at heartstrings, a coward could appear harmless, a witty person could befriend. Each role could be played to gain trust and work subtle manipulations with.                

 

If by "hence why they got removed", you are referring to the cancelled plotline in which after "Champions of the Just", a demon impersonates Leliana in an attempt to seduce the Inquisitor and manipulate them, I should note that the demon in question was the Envy Demon, not a Desire Demon.

 

Desire demons have not been removed from the lore and not from Inquisition since, despite his insistance, Imshael is classified as a desire demon according to the Wikipedia albeit one who identifies itself differently. As a note, that fits with that it is ancient and: "purpotedly one of the first demons to come in contact with human Magi." I would also like to note that Imshael also does not turn into a despair, envy or sloth demon so it is not the desire demon that was solely left out.  

 

In addition: Dorian makes mention of a desire demon who he met and refers to with male pronouns which supports the idea that desire demons likely model themselves in accordance to what their intended victim is most comfortable with. Secondly, If speculation is correct then there is a pair of large sculptures which both has the appearance of a desire demon.  

 

They've also appeared nine times in the previous games: four times in Origins and Awakening as well as five times in II so I would consider it well enough to focus a bit more on other demons especially the newly introduced ones who fit better with the emotions that would be invoked from what is happening in Inquisition.

 

TL:DR - Despite my actual love of the design itself, I feel it actually wrongly represents what a desire demon is suppose to be the manifestation of by associating it primarily with the definition of sexual desire and not the definition of desire. I also disagree with the notion that desire demons were removed from the game so I decided to write a smaller essay explaining why.  

 

As a note: I should have worded my previous post a bit more politely.  

 

 

I know how they work. But they look like almost-naked females. That is what offends the PC crowd and whatever. Remember the uproars the 5 second shot of Ashley's rear end in ME1 caused? Same thing. EA shies away from such things.

[TheOgre]

I know how they work. But they look like almost-naked females. That is what offends the PC crowd and whatever. Remember the uproars the 5 second shot of Ashley's rear end in ME1 caused? Same thing. EA shies away from such things.

 

I blame EA for letting Fox News bully them into self censorship :/

[Rawgrim]

I blame EA for letting Fox News bully them into self censorship :/

 

EA and Fox is pretty much the same thing. All about numbers and dumbing down.

[AresKeith]

I blame EA for letting Fox News bully them into self censorship :/

 

But ME2 had Miranda butt shots every convo with her

[TheOgre]

But ME2 had Miranda butt shots every convo with her

 

I remember them taking showers in their clothes.. 

 

Besides, the self censorship happened around DAO's release too and I found out it was indirectly or directly related to ME1's fox news report.

[AresKeith]

I remember them taking showers in their clothes.. 

 

Besides, the self censorship happened around DAO's release too and I found out it was indirectly or directly related to ME1's fox news report.

 

Well ME1 wasn't even all that heavy into nudity either, the sex scenes was purposely dark and done at angles to avoid showing anything

 

If anything Bioware was doing self censorship before Fox news said anything, it was only until now with DAI that Bioware started to show full nudity outside of Broodmothers and half-nude Desire demons in DAO

[FemShem]

I know how they work. But they look like almost-naked females. That is what offends the PC crowd and whatever. Remember the uproars the 5 second shot of Ashley's rear end in ME1 caused? Same thing. EA shies away from such things.

I dunno the FemShep/Traynor sex scene had to rate higher on the OMG scale than Ashley's Butt in ME1.

Since, we're on a Da:I thread Sera and Fem Inquisitor we got *gasp* nipples.

Hmmm.  I remember way too much about the lesbian sex scenes in games...