304 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Indeed, it would incredibly stupid for the galaxy to place all their bets on the Crucible. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

 

The galaxy should have some plan to preserve life in the event that the Reaper War cannot be won. There are really only two ways of going about that. The first is to go the Prothean or Leviathan route and try to hide within the Milky Way. The other is to attempt to send life outside the Milky Way to colonize new planets, far from where the Reapers are known to operate.

 

Of the two plans the latter is far smarter. With Andromeda at least there is the possibility that the Reapers have never ventured there, while the Reapers are known to revisit the Milky Way roughly every 50,000 years.

The fact that Shepard managed to delay the invasion twice gave them time to actually think about, fund and implement a plan B.  To go along with the extra info from the protheans it's simple smarts and logic that some kind of action the Ark being one of them would take place.

[Kabooooom]

I disagree somewhat. Then again, I'm firmly in the "I hope we left post-ME3" camp, so that probably doesn't surprise you

An intergalactic trip could be possible via some kind of ultra-relay, rather than by Ark. Who built the Ultra-relay and why? is a mystery that ME:A could then tackle as part of its plot. It also makes the exploration-and-scientific-curiosity motivation significantly easier to justify, since the Ultra-relay makes a visit to Andromeda far less of a resource investment than otherwise.

I also feel like you slightly contradicted your own argument: You argue that if we did leave post-ME3, then it must be ages afterwards to make an Ark-journey possible, yet you're also arguing that the most likely journey was pre-ME3-ending?

***

I do agree with you that, out-of-game, we've moved to Andromeda because of the ME3-endings. That much is obvious. I don't expect Bioware to ever say as much, but I'd also be very surprised if they ever tried to directly claim that it wasn't the case.

However, leaving post-ME3 doesn't invalidate that motivation.

Moving to Andromeda makes the consequences of the ME3-endings much easier to handle. Bioware can acknowledge which choice you made without having it affect everything in the game - since the main consequences are all back home. Synthesis is then the trickiest ending to handle, but Synthesis was also the ending with the vaguest consequences, which gives Bioware some much-needed flexibility on how to handle it.

At the end of the day, though, this is Bioware's choice and I heavily suspect they've already decided when we left, how, and why. I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

Sorry, that was ambiguity on my part. While I have made posts about how an intergalactic ark could be attempted, I am of the opinion that Bioware will go the wormhole route - circumventing the issue entirely by allowing the ark to not actually make an intergalactic journey by instead taking a shortcut.

I was referring to if they do go the route of an ark FTL travelling to Andromeda, AND they want it to have left after ME3 ended, then they would probably make the game truly far into the future to avoid both tech problems with the ark and (potentially) the endings as well by homogenizing or trivializing them.

And I don't think they are going to go that route. Every indication says they wont. So my guess is, it will leave during the Reaper war and it will either get there by a wormhole, a relay, or by the long haul and stasis.

[Kabooooom]

Indeed, it would incredibly stupid for the galaxy to place all their bets on the Crucible. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

The galaxy should have some plan to preserve life in the event that the Reaper War cannot be won. There are really only two ways of going about that. The first is to go the Prothean or Leviathan route and try to hide within the Milky Way. The other is to attempt to send life outside the Milky Way to colonize new planets, far from where the Reapers are known to operate.

Of the two plans the latter is far smarter. With Andromeda at least there is the possibility that the Reapers have never ventured there, while the Reapers are known to revisit the Milky Way roughly every 50,000 years.


I'm not too concerned about how the Milky Way colonists get to Andromeda. Bioware has a couple routes they could go, all of which would not affect my ability to suspend disbelief in the least. Reverse engineering Reaper technology, zig-zagging between rogue star systems, jumping through a wormhole or previously dormant Mass Effect relay are all no more far-fetched than element zero, mass effect physics, the Lazarus Project, biotics, Reaper indoctrination, husks and other Reaper creatures, or humans mastering FTL travel after reverse engineering 50,000 year old alien technology left on the surface of Mars.

It does however seem to be an issue for some of the fans here, and solely because they don't like the game being set in Andromeda. Its not so much about 'this doesn't make sense,' since they had no problem suspending disbelief for equal or greater examples of space magic, as it is an example of 'I don't want this to be true so I'm going to try to find reasons why it can't be true.' It is a manifestation of denial, basically.

It is going to be long two years for some of them, because Ark Theory is probably happening.

Well said. And as I pointed out in another thread - ark theory isn't really about how an ark gets to Andromeda, but more that it is the underlying plot of "the galaxy builds an ark to escape the Reapers". Sure, the original concept was that the galaxy builds an ark to travel to Andromeda, specifically - and we got the part about the change of setting right for sure. Ark theory in general is probably right because it is really the only plot that would be reasonable to explain the move to Andromeda.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

He doesn't trust Xen, with good reason. She wanted to dismantle him.

He was quite friendly with Shepard and most of the rest of the crew.

I thought he didn't really trust any of us, but had to due to necessity. I always have Legion so I don't know, but I'll take your word for it. 

 

If so, that could work. Legion/Geth VI are a mandatory part of the game, unlike say the Batarians. Don't know if the Reapers would share the inner workings of their technology with the Heretics though. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Indeed, it would incredibly stupid for the galaxy to place all their bets on the Crucible. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

And yet that is what the game tells us they do. 

[In Exile]

The fact that Shepard managed to delay the invasion twice gave them time to actually think about, fund and implement a plan B. To go along with the extra info from the protheans it's simple smarts and logic that some kind of action the Ark being one of them would take place.

You'd think that. Except blank stares were apparently the Alliance game plan in ME3. "We fight or we die" everyone.

[Han Shot First]

And yet that is what the game tells us they do. 

 

No it doesn't.

 

The Asari Councilor's dialogue in fact, implies otherwise. You're only told that the Crucible is the only means the galaxy has to potentially defeat the Reapers, which is quite different from going to Andromeda. Colonists being sent to Andromeda isn't a war strategy, it would be a mission to preserve life in the event the Reaper War was lost. It is a plan for the post war, not the war itself.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You're still talking about a dozen or more massive ships, with enormous power requirements (keeping thousands if not tens of thousands of passengers in stasis for centuries) as well as engines which even as of ME3, violate known physical lows of the Mass Effect universe.  plus fuel requirements to zip around Andromeda until a planet suitable for colonization (and isn't occupied) can be found.  Actually two worlds, assuming dextros are coming along.

 

Hulls are the easy part, though still likely time-consuming.  It's the internal systems that make this implausible to say the least.

 

We destroyed the reaper part of Sovereign, but kept its mass effect core intact! Now that's a power source. It can last millions of years. Billions of years. Build your ark around that. You know what's coming so just do it.

 

And knowing Mac, Cerberus will infiltrate the project and have sleeper agents in the life pods as well. Why would Cerberus sabotage such a grand project like that? It holds hope for preserving the human race should anything go wrong. Cerberus is an idea and ideas can't be killed. They need to be spread to the new galaxy. Besides we need human mooks to kill.

 

Also since this cycle has repeated itself more times than you can imagine, Andromeda should be full of past species that made it in their arks. Those who managed to kill a reaper and recover a mass effect core. This should cut down on the number of cycles that made an ark. Many different aliens. But remember that civilizations rise and fall. There's a dynamic in Andromeda that doesn't have reapers regulating it. And there aren't any mass relays. But we do haave mass effect drives.

[AlleyD]

The thing that I have with the Ark is the question of how would candidates for the vessel be chosen? And how the hell any Krogan got on board

[Han Shot First]

The thing that I have with the Ark is the question of how would candidates for the vessel be chosen? And how the hell any Krogan got on board

 

I'm assuming that the decision was made with morality or ethics in mind. It would be viewed as immoral or unethical to allow the Krogan to fade into extinction. Even the genophage, while a biological weapon intended to limit Krogan population, was engineered in a way so as not to drive them into extinction. Presumably by the time any ark sets out, the Krogan would also be helping in a big way on Palaven.

 

The big question for me is whether the definition of sapient life would be broadened to include Geth.

 

I'd hope some Geth would make it aboard just so that they would be present in the next game, and so they'd survive Destroy, but I'm not quite as sure the Council species would include the Geth in an ark project's mission to preserve sapient life. Either way, I imagine the in-universe debate on whether to include them would be heated. 

[DarthSliver]

I'm assuming that the decision was made with morality or ethics in mind. It would be viewed as immoral or unethical to allow the Krogan to fade into extinction. Even the genophage, while a biological weapon intended to limit Krogan population, was engineered in a way so as not to drive them into extinction. Presumably by the time any ark sets out, the Krogan would also be helping in a big way on Palaven.

 

The big question for me is whether the definition of sapient life would be broadened to include Geth.

 

I'd hope some Geth would make it aboard just so that they would be present in the next game, and so they'd survive Destroy, but I'm not quite as sure the Council species would include the Geth in an ark project's mission to preserve sapient life. Either way, I imagine the in-universe debate on whether to include them would be heated. 

 

I love the Geth, hated the fact I had to destroy them to kill the Reapers. But I ultimately decided that Legion would've wanted me to destroy the Geth to save the rest of the galaxy. It was probably the most heartbreaking decision I made in ME3, destroying the Geth that ME2 made me fall in love with and respect. 

 

I do hope some Geth will make it to ME:A so by the time we start the game we learn it was thanks to the Geth the Ark project was able to make it to Andromeda. Geth being to go into lifeless parts of space that organics wouldn't be able to survive or have a time limit on the visit or something, so so so lol. 

[Spacepunk01]

I have been very critical about the move to Andromeda. However, a massive relocation concept (ARK) might be the only viable option. The only way to preserve the essence of Mass Effect, is if we move all the different species, cultures and ideas from the Milky Way to Andromeda. We need a a form of transportation that can sustain millions of individuals, because a small population can't sustain itself.

 

The problem will be to explain how this massive project was possible in the first place. 

[Drone223]

Unless there is some official word on the ME4's scenerio, you're assuming that the ark was started during ME2. It is more likely that the ark project was either

a) something else altogether (eg. an experimental craft testing new FTL tech) and repurposed during the reaper war

b ) cobbled together after the reapers attacked (similar to how the rather massive crucible was built)

 

There would be no way that an ark project can be built alongside the crucible since the galaxy is basically pouring all its resources into it (see the specter terminal and codex). There wouldn't be enough man power and resources to build one.

 

 

The reason being simply that the council's position was that reapers were fake. Much like how garrus' constant pleas were handled, a token force was probably assigned to projects like these until the reapers started their invasion

 

So instead making preparations for the reapers the council decided to incompetently do nothing.

 

As for cerberus, whether they want to further their agenda is rather irrelevant. If the ark is supposed to be a last chance for species survival, as long as its not stopped, no one cares whether the STG, spectres, cerberus, etc get new tech from it. Think about it. The ark is the last chance for survival. That means the STG, spectres, cerberus as organizations are ALL expected to be dead during its launch. You would at best get a handful of agents from the various covert organizations simply because there is no room.

 

N7 still exist during its launch that would mean the STG and ceberus could just as easily still be around.

 

Add to the fact that during the reaper war, new tech was coming out of everyone's noses (scorpion, hovertanks, dlc armor, protean weapons, etc). Any new tech an ark project could supply would not matter much and by its purpose, new tech is not a major priority but rather how many people you cram in with a good chance to survive.

 

All of that tech existed before the reaper's even showed up, having neew tech would be just as important as well since it could mean the difference between life an death. It has the potential to be a game changer.

 

 

As for survival of cerberus' ideals, think about if you're huddled in a small room while shells and bombs are going off around you. Do you seriously care if the person next to you believes that dogs will rule the earth or that vegetables are sentient (or some other wierd idea)? If the scenerio is truly a council project to ensure species survival, everyone onboard that ship will work together because its simply in everyone's best interest.

 

They should be concerned since you don't want someone one compromising the survival of the others. It only takes one person to undo the hard work of many people.

[shepskisaac]

Geth can just smuggle themselves inside oven software if they feel like. No need for organics' agreement.

[Drone223]

No it doesn't.

 

The Asari Councilor's dialogue in fact, implies otherwise. You're only told that the Crucible is the only means the galaxy has to potentially defeat the Reapers, which is quite different from going to Andromeda. Colonists being sent to Andromeda isn't a war strategy, it would be a mission to preserve life in the event the Reaper War was lost. It is a plan for the post war, not the war itself.

I really hate that line since its way too vague to indicate that existence of such a project and it also doesn't foreshadow the existence of an ark. That line could mean a number of things it could be something like Liara did with the data caches or some other project that doesn't involve and ark. It's also happen to be the point when the war is nearing isn't climax too many people have committed to the crucible and there is also the lead on horizon.

 

Lets not forget that if the asari should have come forward with the data instead of being concerned with being top dog when the galaxy is fighting for survival then perhaps the war could have been won much sooner.

 

We destroyed the reaper part of Sovereign, but kept its mass effect core intact! Now that's a power source. It can last millions of years. Billions of years. Build your ark around that. You know what's coming so just do it.

There's only one problem with using a reaper core..............people will end up getting indoctrinated.

[Iakus]

 

Also since this cycle has repeated itself more times than you can imagine, Andromeda should be full of past species that made it in their arks. Those who managed to kill a reaper and recover a mass effect core. This should cut down on the number of cycles that made an ark. Many different aliens. But remember that civilizations rise and fall. There's a dynamic in Andromeda that doesn't have reapers regulating it. And there aren't any mass relays. But we do haave mass effect drives.

I could just imagine Andromeda is a billion-year-old refugee camp made up of Milky Way races displaced by the Reapers 

[Computron2000]

You're still talking about a dozen or more massive ships, with enormous power requirements (keeping thousands if not tens of thousands of passengers in stasis for centuries) as well as engines which even as of ME3, violate known physical lows of the Mass Effect universe.  plus fuel requirements to zip around Andromeda until a planet suitable for colonization (and isn't occupied) can be found.  Actually two worlds, assuming dextros are coming along.

 

Hulls are the easy part, though still likely time-consuming.  It's the internal systems that make this implausible to say the least.

 

If the ark project is based upon existing ships (quarian lifeships, geth ships), the ships already have the basic necessary systems for power and movement (and for the lifeships, long term life support as well).

 

The power requirements to keep people in stasis may not be as much as you think if it is chemically induced. Insulation in this case becomes key as preventing external heat from leeching into the cryo pod reduces any energy required to get that heat out to maintain the necessary low temperature.

 

Engine wise, there is a problem but not unsolvable without asspulling. Adoption of space station style discharge facillities  adapted for the entire station means the ship no longer has to find a planet but requires the ark to be a single big ship (which can be solved by interlinking several lifeships, gethships or slavaged hulks together) and may cause other issues as well (such as requiring a lengthy discharge cycle). Reverse engineering reaper drives (or even just putting in the drive without knowing much about it) could also work.

 

For fuel, its likely the ark ship will not be moving from its entry point in the andromeda galaxy once it reaches it but instead more fuel efficient scout ships are sent out. Once a gas giant is located, fuel becomes a a non issue. It will require however large amounts of fuel to actually reach andromeda as the mass efefct core doesn't provide thrust

[Computron2000]

There would be no way that an ark project can be built alongside the crucible since the galaxy is basically pouring all its resources into it (see the specter terminal and codex). There wouldn't be enough man power and resources to build one.

 

Hackett's speech was hyperbole. If *all* resources were being poured into the crucible, then there would never be replacement ships or repairs done to any damaged ship or vehicle since everyone who could do any engineering would be at the crucible (including the normandy's engineers). 

 

There would be no way that an ark project can be built alongside the crucible since the galaxy is basically pouring all its resources into it (see the specter terminal and codex). There wouldn't be enough man power and resources to build one.

 

Eh that was the basis of the ME2 storyline

 

N7 still exist during its launch that would mean the STG and ceberus could just as easily still be around.

 

One N7 agent = N7s are still around? As i already mentioned, at best a handful of agents would get in and its likely they would have to have other skills other than "pull trigger", "lob grenade", "aim overload/incinerate/warp/etc".

 

But lets go with the entire ark being filled with STG, spectres, N7s and cerberus as a joke

 

The cryo pods fail! What do they do?

STG agents suggests giving a speech about how the pod dwellers will be remembered 

The N7s suggesting snap freezing everyone every few seconds or shield bashing with freezing shields.

The spectres want to shoot people up with cryo ammo because they have a ton of level 4 cryo
Cerberus want to go with using the cryo blast because they saw people spamming it like no tomorrow

 

The one actual engineer on the ship suggesting fixing the pods. 

STG agents say they are not reseach division

N7s say that its up to HQ to provide them replacement armor and swords so they never actually fix stuff

Spectres say that they are willing to get the council to pay for engineers to fix the pod

Ceberus agents says that the illusive man knows already and the pods will be fixed automatically

 

All of that tech existed before the reaper's even showed up, having neew tech would be just as important as well since it could mean the difference between life an death. It has the potential to be a game changer.

 

Eh? Some of that tech was fresh out of the oven, including the hover tank which you had to actually complete a small mission to recover. As i said new tech is nice but no one cares if cerberus gets new tech because when the ship launches, 99.99% (or more) of cerberus will be dead. Any cerberus agents that could get into the ark would have to be on the basis of their non combat skills because there is simply NO ROOM for an army of centurions, nemesis and atlas drivers.

 

Once in the ark and launched, any cerberus agents would not be in a position to ignore basic survival issues and instead go around murdering non humans unless they were all insane and want to kill off the human race as well (which btw is one of the species in the ark). That handful of cerberus agents would then have to survive
i) the travel to andromeda

ii) any planetary or stellar dangers at the landing site

 

They should be concerned since you don't want someone one compromising the survival of the others. It only takes one person to undo the hard work of many people.

 

Unless that person can 

i) sabotage the entire ship in one go

ii) can avoid detection

iii) has a deathwish and doesn't mind dying

then there is no real reason to be concerned, not when there are plenty of other concerns (life support failing, collisions with signifacant masses, short circuits, failure of air/water generation or recycling systems, etc). Any person who tries to forment unrest while survival issues are omnipresent can expect to be shunned at first and later (if the action continues) thrown out the airlock by unanimous vote

[Drone223]

If the ark project is based upon existing ships (quarian lifeships, geth ships), the ships already have the basic necessary systems for power and movement (and for the lifeships, long term life support as well).

Except those short of ships are barely being held together and are of poor quality they won't be able to cope with the stress for such a prolonged journey.

 

 

The power requirements to keep people in stasis may not be as much as you think if it is chemically induced. Insulation in this case becomes key as preventing external heat from leeching into the cryo pod reduces any energy required to get that heat out to maintain the necessary low temperature.

 

You've just replace one problem with another, you'll need to gather enough chemicals to maintain stasis for the entire journey and its easier said than done.

 

 

Engine wise, there is a problem but not unsolvable without asspulling. Adoption of space station style discharge facillities  adapted for the entire station means the ship no longer has to find a planet but requires the ark to be a single big ship (which can be solved by interlinking several lifeships, gethships or slavaged hulks together) and may cause other issues as well (such as requiring a lengthy discharge cycle).

 

The discharge is going to occur every 52 hours and in a trip that will take a few centuries which is going to add up and eventually they'll have to find a celestial body eventually to remove the static build up.
 

 

Reverse engineering reaper drives (or even just putting in the drive without knowing much about it) could also work.

 

The engineers in the galaxy don't even understand how it works it'll take decades to reverse engineer such technology add to that the risk of indoctrination.

 

 

 

For fuel, its likely the ark ship will not be moving from its entry point in the andromeda galaxy once it reaches it but instead more fuel efficient scout ships are sent out. Once a gas giant is located, fuel becomes a a non issue. It will require however large amounts of fuel to actually reach andromeda as the mass efefct core doesn't provide thrust

 

That's quite a huge asspull, not to mention space is quite large it may take years to find a gas giant.

[Drone223]

Hackett's speech was hyperbole. If *all* resources were being poured into the crucible, then there would never be replacement ships or repairs done to any damaged ship or vehicle since everyone who could do any engineering would be at the crucible (including the normandy's engineers). 

Not exactly if they aren't working on the crucible then they are either on the front lines or working on damaged ships for the war effort they won;t be enough to spare for an ark.

 

One N7 agent = N7s are still around? As i already mentioned, at best a handful of agents would get in and its likely they would have to have other skills other than "pull trigger", "lob grenade", "aim overload/incinerate/warp/etc".

 

But lets go with the entire ark being filled with STG, spectres, N7s and cerberus as a joke

 

The cryo pods fail! What do they do?

STG agents suggests giving a speech about how the pod dwellers will be remembered 

The N7s suggesting snap freezing everyone every few seconds or shield bashing with freezing shields.

The spectres want to shoot people up with cryo ammo because they have a ton of level 4 cryo
Cerberus want to go with using the cryo blast because they saw people spamming it like no tomorrow

 

The one actual engineer on the ship suggesting fixing the pods. 

STG agents say they are not reseach division

N7s say that its up to HQ to provide them replacement armor and swords so they never actually fix stuff

Spectres say that they are willing to get the council to pay for engineers to fix the pod

Ceberus agents says that the illusive man knows already and the pods will be fixed automatically

 

Bioware wouldn't include N7 if they weren't still around would they, so its not far fetched to say the same for the STG and cerberus.

 

Eh? Some of that tech was fresh out of the oven, including the hover tank which you had to actually complete a small mission to recover.

 

New could be a few years old just keep that in mind.

 

As i said new tech is nice but no one cares if cerberus gets new tech because when the ship launches, 99.99% (or more) of cerberus will be dead. Any cerberus agents that could get into the ark would have to be on the basis of their non combat skills because there is simply NO ROOM for an army of centurions, nemesis and atlas drivers.

 

The issue isn't having an army but some one with similar ideal's as cerberus who may end up starting a similar group.

 

 

Once in the ark and launched, any cerberus agents would not be in a position to ignore basic survival issues and instead go around murdering non humans unless they were all insane and want to kill off the human race as well (which btw is one of the species in the ark). That handful of cerberus agents would then have to survive
i) the travel to andromeda

ii) any planetary or stellar dangers at the landing site

Its quite obvious they minimize the danger to themselves as much as possible if they were to survive they aren't going to risk themselves unless its necessary.

 

 

Unless that person can 

i) sabotage the entire ship in one go

ii) can avoid detection

iii) has a deathwish and doesn't mind dying

then there is no real reason to be concerned, not when there are plenty of other concerns (life support failing, collisions with signifacant masses, short circuits, failure of air/water generation or recycling systems, etc). Any person who tries to forment unrest while survival issues are omnipresent can expect to be shunned at first and later (if the action continues) thrown out the airlock by unanimous vote

 

There is still a lot to be concerned about, you don't want such a group to spread their influence or make their move when they are ready, they have to be dealt with before they become a problem otherwise you may never be able to get rid of them.

[Computron2000]

Except those short of ships are barely being held together and are of poor quality they won't be able to cope with the stress for such a prolonged journey.

 

You must have missed the part where i said they upgraded or replaced sytems onboard. The poor quality of the ships are mainly due to lack of materials. With access to materials, hull patching is easy while life support/engine/power distribution systems could also be easily replaced

 

You've just replace one problem with another, you'll need to gather enough chemicals to maintain stasis for the entire journey and its easier said than done.

 

Eh no, the chemicals are applied once and if properly insulated, they will retain their properties for a long long time. Take for example liquid nitrogen at current technology is 2% loss of liquid into nitrogen gas per day. This gas then requires energy to revert it back into liquid form which is the energy i mentioned in the previous post. The nitrogen is never lost unless the container is leaking but heat gain changes its state. Improved insulation will reduce the 2% per day conversion into gas which i assume mass effect level future tech could handle.

 

The discharge is going to occur every 52 hours and in a trip that will take a few centuries which is going to add up and eventually they'll have to find a celestial body eventually to remove the static build up.

 

That depends on the entire technological premise of the space station discharge facillities as mentioned in the codex. I have seen no further explaination of the tech but logic states that they must be able to bleed out the static discharge either naturally or through other means.

 

The engineers in the galaxy don't even understand how it works it'll take decades to reverse engineer such technology add to that the risk of indoctrination.

 

The time required is up in the air. Given that there have been a lot of reaper tech or things based on reaper tech that has been in use, including cerberus control experiments, reverse engineering a mass effect core that is based on the same basic principle as normal FTL engines to find  how to discharge/store/channel static build up makes decades seem unlikely 

 

That's quite a huge asspull, not to mention space is quite large it may take years to find a gas giant.

 

Why would it take years to find a gas giant?

i) Gas giants are visible to telescopes

ii) Gas giants are common

[Computron2000]

 

Not exactly if they aren't working on the crucible then they are either on the front lines or working on damaged ships for the war effort they won;t be enough to spare for an ark.

 

And why not. The presence of normandy engineers already show the entire "all resources of the galaxy" to be hyperbole. It then becomes the main authority who decides who gets what and the main authority isn't Hackett

 

Bioware wouldn't include N7 if they weren't still around would they, so its not far fetched to say the same for the STG and cerberus.

 

One handful of N7s/STGs/Cerberus/Spectres do not an entire organization make.

 

The issue isn't having an army but some one with similar ideal's as cerberus who may end up starting a similar group.

 

So? Let them start it up. If they survive. Are you going to calculate and respond to something that will happen 100 years in the future? Reaching tomorrow seems to be a greater concern for any last species survivors.

 

Its quite obvious they minimize the danger to themselves as much as possible if they were to survive they aren't going to risk themselves unless its necessary.

 

You assume they have a choice. Lets say one of the cerberus agents is a drive technician. Do you think they can tell the others that they are sick and can't do drive core maintainence (because they could get killed). If your skills say you are suited for a certain job don't expect the communications engineer to take your place in the drive core. Remember this is a survival scenerio. Any deadweight simply reduces everyone's chance of survival.

 

There is still a lot to be concerned about, you don't want such a group to spread their influence or make their move when they are ready, they have to be dealt with before they become a problem otherwise you may never be able to get rid of them.

 

Again let them spread their influence because they can only spread their influence if the ark survives. That is the primary overriding goal. If the is a possible new cerberus decades into the future, would any of the ark people CARE

[Drone223]

You must have missed the part where i said they upgraded or replaced sytems onboard. The poor quality of the ships are mainly due to lack of materials. With access to materials, hull patching is easy while life support/engine/power distribution systems could also be easily replaced

 

No I didn't the, quarian's are some of the best if not the best engineers in the galaxy and they were still struggling to keep their ships together. Even with things such as the pilgrimage which may bring the latest tech they were still having a hard time keeping them in one piece.

 

Eh no, the chemicals are applied once and if properly insulated, they will retain their properties for a long long time. Take for example liquid nitrogen at current technology is 2% loss of liquid into nitrogen gas per day. This gas then requires energy to revert it back into liquid form which is the energy i mentioned in the previous post. The nitrogen is never lost unless the container is leaking but heat gain changes its state. Improved insulation will reduce the 2% per day conversion into gas which i assume mass effect level future tech could handle.

 

You'd still have to get enough to support hundreds of thousands of people and there's the issue of making sure the systems keeping them alive don't malfunction.

 

 

The time required is up in the air. Given that there have been a lot of reaper tech or things based on reaper tech that has been in use, including cerberus control experiments, reverse engineering a mass effect core that is based on the same basic principle as normal FTL engines to find  how to discharge/store/channel static build up makes decades seem unlikely

 

No it isn't, the galaxy's best engineers struggle to understand how the thing works there is just simply no way they can reverse engineer a reaper drive core in the space of two or three years.

 

 

That depends on the entire technological premise of the space station discharge facillities as mentioned in the codex. I have seen no further explaination of the tech but logic states that they must be able to bleed out the static discharge either naturally or through other means.

 

They can't keep the static build up on the ship forever sooner or later they'll need to find a natural celestial body to safely discharge it.

 

 

Why would it take years to find a gas giant?

i) Gas giants are visible to telescopes

ii) Gas giants are common

 

Even then you'll still have to make sure you have enough fuel left over from getting to another galaxy to get to the closest gas giant in the first place.

 

 

 

And why not. The presence of normandy engineers already show the entire "all resources of the galaxy" to be hyperbole. It then becomes the main authority who decides who gets what and the main authority isn't Hackett

 

Given the toll the war is taking in terms of resources/man power and the fact some of those engineers may have been lost in engagements its still going to be very hard to get enough of either in the first place.

 

 

One handful of N7s/STGs/Cerberus/Spectres do not an entire organization make.

 

They could just simply recruit people and start from scratch.

 

 

So? Let them start it up. If they survive. Are you going to calculate and respond to something that will happen 100 years in the future? Reaching tomorrow seems to be a greater concern for any last species survivors.

The whole thing be about surviving for the long term and ensuring that they'll be people to carry on their objective.

 

 

You assume they have a choice. Lets say one of the cerberus agents is a drive technician. Do you think they can tell the others that they are sick and can't do drive core maintainence (because they could get killed). If your skills say you are suited for a certain job don't expect the communications engineer to take your place in the drive core. Remember this is a survival scenerio. Any deadweight simply reduces everyone's chance of survival.

 

Again they'll make their move when their ready everything else can be seen as a means to an end for them, they'll have no need for them once they are no longer needed.

 

Again let them spread their influence because they can only spread their influence if the ark survives. That is the primary overriding goal. If the is a possible new cerberus decades into the future, would any of the ark people CARE

 

Yes they should care, people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. There are going to be extremist who want their ideology to live on and if they aren't dealt with immediately they'll end up causing huge problems in the future and they will never be removed e.g. undermining attempts at peace with new species.

[Computron2000]

 

No I didn't the, quarian's are some of the best if not the best engineers in the galaxy and they were still struggling to keep their ships together. Even with things such as the pilgrimage which may bring the latest tech they were still having a hard time keeping them in one piece.

 

I said the main problem was access to materials. Since you say the quarians are some of the best, why can't they repair their ships to full functionality?

 

Lack of materials.

 

tldr: They be too poor to buy stuff.

 

You'd still have to get enough to support hundreds of thousands of people and there's the issue of making sure the systems keeping them alive don't malfunction.

 

Your basic paladin can snap freeze every few seconds all day, every day. As for the systems malfunctioning, well do you see why i keep saying that survival is number one priority?

 

tldr: Malfunctioning cryo pods was used as a joke. That means i already knew.

 

No it isn't, the galaxy's best engineers struggle to understand how the thing works there is just simply no way they can reverse engineer a reaper drive core in the space of two or three years.

 

Sure thing. No way to reverse engineer those reaper weapons too.

 

tldr: Thannix cannons.

 

They can't keep the static build up on the ship forever sooner or later they'll need to find a natural celestial body to safely discharge it.

 

Ok so how does a space station discharge static? They tow the space station (eg the citadel) to a planet? Or they tow a planet to the citadel?

 

tldr: You cannot say something has to occur when the codex itself says another method is possible.

 

Even then you'll still have to make sure you have enough fuel left over from getting to another galaxy to get to the closest gas giant in the first place.

 

Thats why calculations are done before the ark is launched with a buffer for accidents and emergencies. You don't seriously think the space programs on earth launch rockets by guessing the amount of fuel required?!? Once there, scout ships FTL to various systems to find gas giants. Smarter ones will send in SKIMMER scout ships so they can refuel when they find a giant

 

tldr: Everything is planned.

 

Given the toll the war is taking in terms of resources/man power and the fact some of those engineers may have been lost in engagements its still going to be very hard to get enough of either in the first place.

 

Of course it is hard. Thats why the main authority has to parcel out limited resources. Said authority didn't see a need to get gabby, daniels and tali from your ship and tell you to get garrus to be the engineer so they must see you as important enough to let you have your engineers.

 

tldr: Nothing is free but high priorities always gets stuff and low prorities have to suck their thumbs

 

They could just simply recruit people and start from scratch.

 

The whole thing be about surviving for the long term and ensuring that they'll be people to carry on their objective.

 

Again they'll make their move when their ready everything else can be seen as a means to an end for them, they'll have no need for them once they are no longer needed.

 

Yes they should care, people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. There are going to be extremist who want their ideology to live on and if they aren't dealt with immediately they'll end up causing huge problems in the future and they will never be removed.

 

These points are lumped together because they keep missing the point.

 

No one cares if they recruit people because there has to be PEOPLE TO RECRUIT. If every last one is sucking vacuum because of a hull breech or out of water after planetfall, i'm sure everyone will be talking about how cerberus is going to kill non humans instead of talking about where to get water or how not to suck vacuum.

 

As for history, do you seriously think that cerberus existed when the first guy thought up the entire idea? Jack harper was not cerberus because ceberus did not exist until he created it. How about if a turian came up with a "turians number one" idea? Or an asari came up with a "asaris are the best" idea?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why would it take years to find a gas giant?

i) Gas giants are visible to telescopes

ii) Gas giants are common

It's not that simple. While powerful telescopes can detect jovial planets and even large terrestrial planets, they do so by staring at the star they orbit. If the star dims, wobbles, or it's spectrum changes slightly, it means a planet is orbiting the star. The planets themselves are not visible to telescopes because the light from the star outshines the planet. The problem with these methods is that it can take a long time and only work on relatively close stars. After a certain distance, the change of the star's brightness, position, or spectrum is so small it is undetectable.