304 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thing is, there really isn't another reasonable alternative for WHY the species of the Milky Way would want to go to Andromeda, rather than an ark contingency plan. The only other reason would be exploration and scientific curiosity, but given what must be required to make an intergalactic trip possible, it seems unreasonable that the galaxy would do it unless the game takes place in the far, far future and they left the Milky Way post reaper war.

The Ark Theory isn't reasonable though. With the Reaper War going on and them having to leave before the Crucible fires, it is logically impossible for it to happen. 

[Kabooooom]

The Ark Theory isn't reasonable though. With the Reaper War going on and them having to leave before the Crucible fires, it is logically impossible for it to happen.

That's absurd. To not prepare a Plan B in case the Crucible failed would be pretty idiotic on behalf of the races of the galaxy.

But your objection doesn't really make sense for another reason too - namely, can you think of a suitable alternative to it?

We were right about the move to Andromeda...literally we called this a year ago and pointed out to naysayers exactly why it would happen.

And we are probably right about the ark too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's absurd. To not prepare a Plan B in case the Crucible failed would be pretty idiotic on behalf of the races of the galaxy.

An intergalactic-capable ark is exponentially more absurd since it desecrates the established lore multiple times. 

[Han Shot First]

An ark doesn't necessarily throw out established lore.

 

The writers have a couple different ways they could go about getting ark full of colonists to Andromeda without retcons.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

An ark doesn't necessarily throw out established lore.

 

The writers have a couple different ways they could go about getting ark full of colonists to Andromeda without retcons.

Please share. Oh, and nothing involving a Deus Ex Machina please. 

[Kabooooom]

Please share. Oh, and nothing involving a Deus Ex Machina please.

I do believe we have already shared, multiple times, over months prior, in all the various threads discussing the ark theory and Andromeda.

Reaper drives can reach Andromeda in 230 ish years, without needing to discharge - a calculation I first made in another thread.

A generation ship could make the journey at relativistic speeds in millennia.

Some combination of either with cryo stasis is likewise possible.

And the single most likely scenario, already hinted at via Bioware, is that they utilize a wormhole to get there - a fundamental concept from real life general relativity, and something that likely exists in nature.

None of these scenarios violate the lore. And none of them are DEM's, by definition, as other people here have pointed out to you. This is similar to the commonly held misconception that if something isnt mentioned in a story it is a "plot hole" (likewise false). You just dont like the move to Andromeda in the first place, I think.

[Han Shot First]

Please share. 

 

The ark using technology that allows for FTL travel without drive discharge or refueling wouldn't require any retcons. The Reapers already possess that technology, and perhaps the Collectors did as well. By the time the Reaper War gets into full swing there are multiple wrecks to study and salvage. There is also a precedent already in the lore of the Council species reverse engineering Reaper tech, so its already established as being within the realm of possibility.

 

The other means is by having the ark zig zag between rogue star systems lying between the Milky Way and Andromeda, and using these systems to both drive discharge and skim Helium-3. The dark space between galaxies is not actually dark, but is filled with stars and star remnants that have been cast off from their original parent galaxies. As many as half of all stars in the universe may lie in the space between galaxies, rather than within them. Since the lore does not specify how often ships need to refuel or drive discharge while at FTL, the writers could declare that the ark was able to leap frog to Andromeda using these intergalactic stars and their orbiting planets as galactic rest stops, without lore conflicts. It would make the journey take much longer since the ark would not be taking a direct route to Andromeda, but wouldn't require the Council species reverse engineering any Reaper technology.

 

Lost in Space: Half of All Stars are Rogues Between Galaxies

[GnusmasTHX]

^{Someone getting DP'd over here.}

[Kabooooom]

The ark using technology that allows for FTL travel without drive discharge or refueling wouldn't require any retcons. The Reapers already possess that technology, and perhaps the Collectors did as well. By the time the Reaper War gets into full swing there are multiple wrecks to study and salvage. There is also a precedent already in the lore of the Council species reverse engineering Reaper tech, so its already established as being within the realm of possibility.

The other means is by having the ark zig zag between rogue star systems lying between the Milky Way and Andromeda, and using these systems to both drive discharge and skim Helium-3. The dark space between galaxies is not actually dark, but is filled with stars and star remnants that have been cast off from their original parent galaxies. As many as half of all stars in the universe may lie in the space between galaxies, rather than within them. Since the lore does not specify how often ships need to refuel or drive discharge while at FTL, the writers could declare that the ark was able to leap frog to Andromeda using these intergalactic stars and their orbiting planets as galactic rest stops, without lore conflicts. It would make the journey take much longer since the ark would not be taking a direct route to Andromeda, but wouldn't require the Council species reverse engineering any Reaper technology.

Lost in Space: Half of All Stars are Rogues Between Galaxies

All good points, and while the lore doesn't explicitly state the time required until drive discharge, several comments by characters throughout the games and books seem to heavily imply that it is several days at maximum, depending on FTL speed and duration of travel (and thus utilization of the mass effect).

Awhile ago, I wrote a post about how difficult it would be for the Migrant Fleet to chart a successful course from Earth back to Rannoch without relays. It would take them approximately 45 years, and would require travelling through uncharted space. If they did not very carefully choose their course, they could wind up in a star system without ANY suitable planets to discharge on, and subsequently fry themselves to death. It is doable, but extremely dangerous

Similarly, I think an intergalactic journey in the same fashion would be even more exponentially dangerous. They are much better off going the Reaper tech route and not having to discharge at all.

[In Exile]

I find it a little silly when people try to reason out the nonsense science of ME. This is not a series built on even basic attention to science beyond a cursory mention of scientific ideas.

[Han Shot First]

I decided to go back and take a look at what the lore had to say about drive discharge, and it raises the question of whether an ark could contain or tow some form of its own discharge facilities to avoid having to discharge into a planet's magnetic field.

 

Bolded the relevant portion:

 

Element zero FTL drives accumulate a static electrical charge when a vessel has been in FTL flight for some time. This charge steadily increases with the amount of time a vessel spends in FTL. Eventually, it must be discharged. The safe method involves discharging into a planet's magnetic field (for large ships, incapable of planetary landings) or actual surface contact (in the case of smaller vessels). Space stations and similar structures which are not located near planets are usually equipped with their own discharging facilities; the Citadel has dozens of these.

 

If the drive charge cannot be discharged, it will eventually accumulate to the point at which it discharges into the ship's hull. The heat will fry everything inside; fusing the bulkheads, destroying the electronics and killing all the crew members.

[SubjectZer0]

Can't believe the amount of replies and attention this has gotten wow I didn't think this was even gonna make it past to first page lol-and this is my first thread. Cool!

Still ridiculous.

Not really. The Council and all the people involved in this project thought this was the apocalypse and everyone was going to die so it does make sense for them to want a plan B.

Doubtful I would think, considering Cerberus were a Reaper 5th Column in Mass Effect 3. 
 
Bioware's writers at some point did seem to decide that Cerberus was more interesting than the Reapers, considering the former got much more attention (particularly if including the EU), but having Cerberus be responsible for the pathfinder initiative would seem to be at odds with Mass Effect 3, where Cerberus had fallen to indoctrination. That is unless the pathfinder initiative sets out before Cerberus became indoctrinated, but even that would create some issues.
 
Cerberus for example probably wouldn't include aliens on any ark project. Any colonization effort would probably be human only.

Yeah I agree, I don't think cerberus would have anything to do with the Ark, since all they care about is humanity.

That line tells players nothing about an "ark project" it could mean a number of things, at best its really vague.

Yeah, I know it vague and I'm reaching really high and the councilor could be talking about literally ANYTHING but it's definitely possible and I think it makes a lot of sense.

If I was a normal citizen in the Milky Way during the Reaper War, watching homeworlds burn one after another, and someone said "hey, wanna hop on this ark to leave the Milky Way? It'd be a journey of centuries in cryo." I would absolutely say hell yes get me out of here.

Same!

[shepskisaac]

An intergalactic-capable ark is exponentially more absurd since it desecrates the established lore multiple times. 

Non-discharging and non-refueling Reaper engines are already part of the lore.

[SubjectZer0]

One thing that bothers me about this moment being the impetus that drives the "arkcon pathfinder initiative" is that it is very late in the game and we could most certainly not see hanar, drell, quarians, or geth in Andromeda. 
 
We will see the krogan because, genophage or no genophage, they can still breed and thrive in Andromeda concerning themselves with building a home as opposed to fighting. I have not played the trilogy in over 2 years, but was it not said that with enough time- which we are being given in this new setting and I suspect allows us to build that huge citadel-like replica in Andromeda possibly for a sense of normalcy and community (I do not think that is the actual ark that exits the Milky Way) - the krogan can defeat the genophage on their own. 
 
However, the drell and hanar can be doomed in that hanar diplomat mission. The quarians that participated in the conflct with the geth most certainly perished. While there are certainly stragglers or exiles, would the council even desire to planet hop here and there to pick up enough quarian stragglers for the ark mission. And even if we did invite these stragglers and exiles I doubt they would join, especially if the geth are on the ark (were chosen). 
 
I think BioWare will drop the drell, hanar, geth (definitely) and quarians from participation in the ark if the decision is made post-Thessia. 

I agree, I think only some races are going to be invited to the Ark if this is true and if the council is behind it races like the Quarians - who were kicked out of the council, the Batarians, who left the council, etc wouldn't be invited. The Krogan helped the Turians on Palaven and played a crucial role in the war all over the galaxy so they'll probably be invited. The Geth, Vorcha and a lot of other non council races probably wouldn't have been invited either.

[AlanC9]

I decided to go back and take a look at what the lore had to say about drive discharge, and it raises the question of whether an ark could contain or tow some form of its own discharge facilities to avoid having to discharge into a planet's magnetic field.
 
Bolded the relevant portion:

Good catch. Yeah, this has to be a soluble technical problem. One of those things that organics would have worked on if they'd needed to.

[Hellamarian]

I thought Andromeda was taking place before ME3? Why would we need a rebuild civilization goal?

[In Exile]

Good catch. Yeah, this has to be a soluble technical problem. One of those things that organics would have worked on if they'd needed to.

It does raise the question of why we wouldn't build ships that could self-discharge in the first place. I suppose the answer is cost. 

[KaiserShep]

I thought Andromeda was taking place before ME3? Why would we need a rebuild civilization goal?

 

And the PC stole the one prototype Mako in existence, which is why we never once see a vehicle that looks like it.

[Hellamarian]

And the PC stole the one prototype Mako in existence, which is why we never once see a vehicle that looks like it.

 

It seems that way. If Andromeda's blasting off past 3... that's okay, I guess, but I was looking forward to a prequel. Some kind of story with no Shep influences that we can create ourselves.

[CuriousArtemis]

I thought about this, too. I always wondered if she were planning something like this. Now Andromeda's been revealed, and yep, I think it's a potentially nice connection Remember, the asari are extremely advanced, AND they like hiding things (ahem, Prothean beacon on Thessia). It wouldn't surprise me if they had some prototype technology that would allowed them to reach Andromeday in a few hundred years (which is more like 40-50 years for humans). A few other people from different races were selected... our character could be a descendant.

[Iakus]

Non-discharging and non-refueling Reaper engines are already part of the lore.

So reverse engineering tech that violates known physics then building a fleet of ark ships with said tech and launching them all within a single year makes sense?

Yeah...no.

[KaiserShep]

It seems that way. If Andromeda's blasting off past 3... that's okay, I guess, but I was looking forward to a prequel. Some kind of story with no Shep influences that we can create ourselves.

 

The way I see it, the only way to have a Mass Effect setting with no Shepard influence would be to go before the conclusion of the first Mass Effect, because once Sovereign is defeated, Shepard's influence is unavoidable. It permeates throughout all of known galactic society, even the two year span of Shep being MIA after the Collector attack. Trouble with that is that the game designers are compelled to make everything look more advanced, which would irk me to no end. You just know that they would never scale back to cater to the past, for the same reason why the Star Wars prequels features technology that looks oddly sleeker and more futuristic than the clunkier stuff of the old movies. 

 

But going into the past to avoid Shepard's influence doesn't really solve the problem of limitations of the story. Being a prequel, it's highly restricted. We can't do just anything, because then it raises the question of why no one in the original trilogy heard of anything that went on. It would most certainly have to be a super small story that happens in some obscure armpit of the galaxy that's just never mentioned and forgotten by everyone to the point where it's not even in seldom read codices. 

 

Then there's the other societal things that would serve as a constant reminder. Krogan with the genophage, the quarians are still space nomads off somewhere, batarians are xenophobic slaver terrorists with a serious axe to grind and the council is still a three-species bag of jerks. But I swear I do not want to see a reaper husk ever again, and if set in the past, there would certainly be some, because they still exist. Just the very idea that these things are still around and will be a thing forever would bug me. It's part of why I despise the idea of a prequel and consider it the Devil Supreme. 

[ArabianIGoggles]

So reverse engineering tech that violates known physics then building a fleet of ark ships with said tech and launching them all within a single year makes sense?

Yeah...no.

Such a hater.

[Drone223]

Such a hater.

He's not a hater, he's pointing out the writing and lore problems of the whole concept.

[Drone223]

Yeah, I know it vague and I'm reaching really high and the councilor could be talking about literally ANYTHING but it's definitely possible and I think it makes a lot of sense.

A single vague line in a 30-40 hour game I'd say its very unlikely, tbh I think people are reading way too much into that line.