85 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

I said in another topic I made that I want to always pick whatever side's enemies are more of a counterpoint to my Inquisitor. Mages will typically get the red templars and warriors will get venatori, like my next character who I'm planning to be a warrior will side with the templars so the venatori will do the Haven assault.

 

But this time... Muddles things. I'm a Dalish mage. Yes, Templars are the counterpoint to mages and yes their belief in the Maker makes them a counterpoint to a Dalish. But Venatori are Tevinter cultists and nationalists, and Tevinter mages are who destroyed the original elven homeland. Which would make the venatori a good counterpoint too, so I'm thinking to side with templars. That will be difficult roleplaying a Dalish mage who seeks out templars instead or rebel mages led by another elf, but I'm thinking I'll go at it from a "rebel mages are siding with Tevinter and I want absolutely nothing to do with them because elves have more reason to hate Tevinter than anyone" angle after seeing the tavern scene in Redcliffe. The more important thing to me is which actually is the better counterpoint from a narrative standpoint between Chantry extremists who hates mages and Tevinter extremists who hate elves.

[fhs33721]

But the Dales, which were the Kingdom ruled by Dalish, were destroyed by andrastian knights. Both here can be equally argued for. So I don't know. Throw a coin maybe?

[Gervaise]

The way I played it in going to the Templars was that my Dalish saw it as the lesser of two evils.    This was pretty much the same whether a mage or not.    Whilst the Chantry were responsible for the Exalted March on the Dales, the Templars are no longer part of them.    I went to Redcliffe fully intending to side with the mages, only to discover they had signed up with a Tevinter Magister, the ultimate boogie man to my Dalish.   The fact that Fiona was an elf was irrelevant, since she was not a Dalish.    My Dalish knew the history of Tevinter and the fact that they are known for using blood magic to control people's minds.   Thus to walk into what they knew was a trap, relying on my current backup seemed stupid   Far better to get the help of known magic negating experts.    The intention being to close the rift and then march on Redcliffe Castle.  

 

A lot of people seem to miss the fact that in allying with Alexius and his Tevinter cultists, Fiona and her mages have betrayed the people of Ferelden who gave them sanctuary.  They didn't occupy the castle as invaders, they were offered its use freely by the monarch of Ferelden, with the co-operation and agreement of the Arl.   Then the Venatori turned him out with the complicity of the rebel mages.   Bearing in mind that the Dalish fought with the people of Ferelden to end the Blight, in siding with Tevinter, the mages are not just in opposition to the humans of Ferelden but the Dalish too.     So it is not odd at all that a Dalish mage, who potentially was going to be a leader of their people, would oppose any faction that allied with Tevinter.     In a way it is pretty much in keeping with their history.  As Shartan said in the Gauntlet "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".    Tevinter has always been the enemy and thus the rebel mages are now as well.

 

Would also mention that Leliana's argument that they had little choice as it was either that or death would not have much weight with a Dalish.   It is clear from what we read in the Exalted Plains that when offered the choice of surrender or die, the Dalish chose death rather than surrender to the enemy.   Their mantra is "Never again shall we submit", so it is clear that if offered a similar choice by the Venatori, the Dalish would fight to the last elf rather than sign up with them and so would have little sympathy for the choice of the rebel mages.    When my Dalish mage did side with the mages, it was more to spite the Tevinter Magister than any real affinity with the mages themselves.   When Alexius asked what I was offering for their services I took the option "Nothing, I'm just walking out of here with them".   That Dalish mage really was that arrogantly confident and boy it felt good.

 

The best course for a Dalish, whether opting for siding with the mages or the Templars, is to conscript them, since they are then part of the Inquisition and under your control.     

[andy6915]

The best course for a Dalish, whether opting for siding with the mages or the Templars, is to conscript them, since they are then part of the Inquisition and under your control.     

 

Oh god no. Well, for the templars then sure. But it has to be a full alliance with the mages... Vivienne gets a lot of divine points for being elected if you conscript the mages. Her being divine is not happening in my game. Conversely, conscripting the templars is the anti Viv-divine choice which means no argument from me on that one.

[Gervaise]

Vivienne being Divine relies on a lot more than just conscripting the mages.    The only time I got her was when I forgot to vote for Cassandra.      I've got an inspired Leliana as Divine on the back of conscripting the mages, when I deliberately didn't vote for anyone, so it is not a forgone conclusion that you will get Vivienne if you do.    In fact as a Dalish you are more likely to get someone else, since my Dalish tend to opt for either reconciling Celene and Briala or more often making Gaspard the puppet of Briala (definitely my favourite as there is a lovely irony to that one), neither of which I believe help Vivienne's cause.     If you don't want Vivienne, then don't curry her favour, or simply ignore her.    There are a lot of factors involved in who becomes Divine but on the whole it does match the way you play your Inquisitor and your vote does count for something.

[Boost32]

But the Dales, which were the Kingdom ruled by Dalish, were destroyed by andrastian knights. Both here can be equally argued for. So I don't know. Throw a coin maybe?

The mages from the Circle not only are andrastian too as they helped Orlais against the elves from the Dales too.

[Boost32]

Oh god no. Well, for the templars then sure. But it has to be a full alliance with the mages... Vivienne gets a lot of divine points for being elected if you conscript the mages. Her being divine is not happening in my game. Conversely, conscripting the templars is the anti Viv-divine choice which means no argument from me on that one.

Conscript the mages and use meta-knowledge to get Leliana as Divine. If you get the Wardens and Briala as a puppetmaster she will have more points than Vivienne.
Edit: and in the speech choose either "I'll do because its right" or "I'll lead them to vengeance".

[Serelir]

This was a tough call for me. I wanted to play the templar story and had to force myself to do it. It turned out to be rather interesting. I conscripted the Templars, delightfully irritating certain companions in the process.

 

Then again, the more I consider allying with Tevinter, it makes good sense for non-Dalish mage (which is unfortunately not a choice of character in the game). I'd also do pretty much anything to get rid of the Chantry. I think it's arguable whether Tevinter has treated elves in general worse than humans have in other places when you consider how the Dalish are constantly threatened and harassed and the city elves are ghettoized and discriminated against and basically powerless - Dorian makes some good points about slavery in his conversation with the Inquisitor. Not that either side is ideal, but for an elf caught in the middle, Tevinter may be a preferable choice.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Personally, I'd always argue that a Dalish elf should hate Tevinters cultists more than templars. But even if you were deciding based on that, exactly how that translates into a decision between Champions of the Just or In Hushed Whispers can still vary. 

 

They could see the Venatori and decide the Tevinters must be dealt with at once, or they could see Fiona siding with the Imperium and be so disgusted that they would prefer to go to the templars instead.

[Sunnie]

A couple of points...

 

Spoiler

• Unless you use meta-knowledge, you don't know that the Venatori are controlled by, and The Elder One is Coryphytit until after starting "In Hushed Whispers".
• If you do "In Hushed Whispers", you are not allying with Tevinter, you are "liberating" the Mages from Tevinter (actually Venatori, Tevinter knows nothing about the deal).
• Fiona (granted she does make some daft decisions) was duped into believing Templars were massing for an assault by Alexius using time magic, and makes a deal to protect her charges (not knowing that Alexius was going to screw her all along).
• It should have been somewhat easy to connect all the comments and snippets of info about the time dilatation pockets and the meeting with Fiona, leading up to the meeting with Dorian.
• The Arl was ejected by Alexius (and his forces) not the mages.

Edit: point one for accuracy.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dorian and Felix tell you he's joined the Venatori in Redcliffe, don't they? They at least tell you he's joined a Tevinter supremecist cult.

[MyKingdomCold]

Yes, Felix tells you that he's joined the Venatori when you go to the Chantry in Redcliffe.  I guess that's part of the In Hushed Whispers though since going to the tavern in Redcliffe is part of it.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Who are the Dalish not enemies with?

[Sunnie]

Dorian and Felix tell you he's joined the Venatori in Redcliffe, don't they? They at least tell you he's joined a Tevinter supremecist cult.

 

 

Yes, Felix tells you that he's joined the Venatori when you go to the Chantry in Redcliffe.  I guess that's part of the In Hushed Whispers though since going to the tavern in Redcliffe is part of it.

Dorian just say a Cult, not that they are "Venatori", you find that out in the mission. I think...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I double checked and he does say "Venatori." Even if he hadn't, Felix still explains that the cult he joined is a Tevinter supremacist cult.

[Cee]

My canon playthrough was a Dalish rogue who sided with the mages and made them allies.

 

Current playthrough is a Dalish mage who conscripted the templars.

 

Went to Redcliffe to talk, found out there was something fishy going on. Decided, in character, to follow Cullen's advice and since there seems to be some potentially dangerous mage activity happening (especially since Fiona doesn't remember meeting you, and the note from Felix saying danger, and other signs), even though she is a mage herself, she thought maybe templars could help us with this problem and then the matter of the Breach could be settled.

 

With meta knowledge, of course this results in it being too late once a choice is made, but this is still a Dalish mage more sheltered and unsure than my canon, who at least I perceive as having some contact with humans before.

 

Having already done In Hushed Whispers, I wanted to finally see the other side and also to get Cole first, since I wanted to have more time with him, since my mage spots in the party are already occupied by me and Solas and Dorian wouldn't be used much this time.

[Akkos]

Hmmm, I think instead of "conscripting the templars" as most of you say.....you are actually disbanding the Templar Order and conscripting the former templars.........as a whole.

Same with the mages, you are actually siding with the "rebel mages".. Not the mages in general.

 

Conclusion: It's not a big deal whose side you pick actually. If you go to the "rebel mages" first, all templars become corrupted. If you go to the templars first, then some rebel mages join the Venatori cult, the rest were killed or escaped. Not like you'd become enemies of those you didn't choose.

[MyKingdomCold]

I double checked and he does say "Venatori." Even if he hadn't, Felix still explains that the cult he joined is a Tevinter supremacist cult.

That's true. Felix does say Venatori. One of the options when talking to Alexius is something like "tell me about these Venatori I keep hearing about."

[Carmen_Willow]

I don't choose based on who is going to be the best counterpoint. I choose based on which group I think has the best chance of helping me defeat my enemy.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't choose based on who is going to be the best counterpoint. I choose based on which group I think has the best chance of helping me defeat my enemy.

So Templars

[S.W.]

I did the mages quest on the basis that Fiona approached me personally whereas the Templars basically told me to 'eff off. From a non-metagaming point of view, you have little idea from the outside that the Templars are going through internal strife and will end up becoming the Red Templars. For my Dalish Mage it was a no-brainer - the mages asked the Inquisition for help, and were clearly being led into a trap which the Inquisition would inevitably have to deal with sooner or later (so better sooner, right?).

 

In terms of choices for the mages, conscripting them appeared to be a vote in support of the circle system. Whilst the circles, being technically a part of the Andrastrian Chantry as the Templars are, did side with Orlais against the Dales, by the time of the Dragon Age it is fairly clear that they are nowhere near as ingrained into the Chantry hierarchy and treated with immense disdain by the Chantry. Plus, a vote for mage freedom probably means your clan is less likely to be approached by templars in future, demanding for the keeper and their apprentices to be turned over.

Modifié par Shallow waters, 21 juin 2015 - 07:41 .

[TheSage]

Choose the templars i say. Show them that a mage sided with them. Not against them (even thought they dont mention that your a mage)

[myahele]

Templars aren't too bad. Keep in mind that without them and the circles the mage children they abandoned will have no place to go.

[Ezra Watcher]

i did not read most of the comments so if this has been said forgive me I've only got a little bit of time before bed. I always play Dalish (well 99% of the time) and in all the DA games templars generally ignore the Dalish, they consider them unimportant and of almost no risk. in one of the i think it was said that although the templars occasionally have cause to contact a dalish camp (investigate it) the dalish deal with their own. thus if a Dalish elf becomes an abomination its not the job of the templars to deal with the clan do it themselves. 

 

secondly, if was the tervinter imperium that destroyed arlathan, they were the first and main enemy of the elves. (yeah,  yeah, the chantry (orlais) did the exalted march and destroyed the dales but still today the dalish do not do into tervinter. they do however go into orlais.

 

this tells me that tervinter is their greatest and only true enemy so if i were you if go against the venetori and ally with the templars.

[Sunnie]

So Templars

lol!

 

no.