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[Lulupab]

You said they had done nothing against the Dalish, I proved that they did, you trying to justify them doesn't change anything.

You proved nothing when the alternative for mages not fighting elves was either death or tranquility. If anything you are justifying it for yourself. The Chantry and Templars along with Orlais were the authority figures, they word was law. Mages were mere chess pieces moved by their masters at the time. I'd make some real life examples but I don't want to since its not welcome in BSN. If you can't comprehend the rule of leadership and authority in this matter, its your problem, not mine.

 

An Elven god that knows exactly what happened, advises you to get mages as allies not Templars.

 

Vivienne put them in their place when she became Divine in my game, so they just need someone to remember their place.

Good. She also puts Templars in their places by making them her own puppets, just like Templars in tevinter. She is casting a long shadow for Tevinter Magisters. Not to mention that the ending explicitly mentions mages have more freedom and lives inside the circles now.

 

You CANNOT make the lives of mages worse than it was before the rebellion. In every single ending it gets better, only the scale of "better" changes between them.

[andy6915]

An Elven god that knows exactly what happened, advises you to get mages as allies not Templars.

 

Not exactly. He has no issues with you forcefully conscripting templars.

[Boost32]

You proved nothing when the alternative for mages not fighting elves was either death or tranquility. If anything you are justifying it for yourself. The Chantry and Templars along with Orlais were the authority figures, they word was law. Mages were mere chess pieces moved by their masters at the time. I'd make some real life examples but I don't want to since its not welcome in BSN. If you can't comprehend the rule of leadership and authority in this matter, its your problem, not mine.
 
An Elven god that knows exactly what happened, advises you to get mages as allies not Templars.
 

Good. She also puts Templars in their places by making them her own puppets, just like Templars in tevinter. She is casting a long shadow for Tevinter Magisters. Not to mention that the ending explicitly mentions mages have more freedom and lives inside the circles now.
 
You CANNOT make the lives of mages worse than it was before the rebellion. In every single ending it gets better, only the scale of "better" changes between them.

Thats your headcanon, nothing indicate that it happened, the only thing is 100% true is that the Circle attacked the Dales too. And Solas knows sh*t about what happened! he was sleeping at the time, nanda I could care less for what he adviesse, because it was his fault in the first place.

I think its good too, we dont need more paramilitar groups in Thedas.
And never said I wanted the mage's lives to get worse, I said she put them in their place, in the Circle beneath the Chantry authority.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Solas doesn't even really have that much of an objection to allying with the templars unless he hates the Inquisitor. 

[Lulupab]

Not exactly. He has no issues with you forcefully conscripting templars.

 

I know, but you don't practically "conscript" Templars. You disband them. Its worse than conscripting mages. No one has a problem with making a choice between templars and mages. Only how you get the help raises eyebrows. Solas simply thinks mages are more suitable for closing the breach. Indeed he doesn't mind disbanding the Templars.

 

 

Thats your headcanon, nothing indicate that it happened, the only thing is 100% true is that the Circle attacked the Dales too. And Solas knows sh*t about what happened! he was sleeping at the time, nanda I could care less for what he adviesse, because it was his fault in the first place.

I think its good too, we dont need more paramilitar groups in Thedas.
And never said I wanted the mage's lives to get worse, I said she put them in their place, in the Circle beneath the Chantry authority.

 

My headcanon? Blaming mages who had ZEOR authority and will at the time for Dales is a fallacy. Its like blaming all Germans for what happened to Jews. Only the Nazi government and those in power are responsible for it. The soldiers were conscripted or killed, their decision so they had to choose conscription. Mages were conscripted. I can make thousands of examples like this. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and you know I'm right. In case of fall of Dales, The chantry, its Templars and Orlais are the authority and will behind fall of Dales and these are the sole parties to be blamed.

[Lulupab]

Solas doesn't even really have that much of an objection to allying with the templars unless he hates the Inquisitor. 

 

Doesn't he greatly disapprove of alliance with Templars (not disbanding)? I don't remember the conversation but I remember the disapproval.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It does earn a "Solas Greatly Disapproves" but he doesn't seem more than mildly concerned when you talk to him afterward. Out of all the reactions all your allies have to all the various possible outcomes, his is one of the much less emphatic ones.

[Boost32]

My headcanon? Blaming mages who had ZEOR authority and will at the time for Dales is a fallacy. Its like blaming all Germans for what happened to Jews. Only the Nazi government and those in power are responsible for it. The soldiers were conscripted or killed, their decision so they had to choose conscription. Mages were conscripted. I can make thousands of examples like this. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and you know I'm right. In case of fall of Dales, The chantry, its Templars and Orlais are the authority and will behind fall of Dales and these are the sole parties to be blamed.

Blaming? All I'm saying is that the Circle went to war against the Dales, so yes they attacked and killed elves too, even Arianne resents the Circle.
And its funny how you say they were orders but blames the Templars, or the Chantry didnt commanded the templars too?

But the war was started by the elves, so the Circle was right to go to war against them.

[Lulupab]

Blaming? All I'm saying is that the Circle went to war against the Dales, so yes they attacked and killed elves too, even Arianne resents the Circle.
And its funny how you say they were orders but blames the Templars, or the Chantry didnt commanded the templars too?

But the war was started by the elves, so the Circle was right to go to war against them.

 

Order has nothing to with it. A Templar has chosen to be a Templar but a mage is forced to be in the circle and again forced to be in the battle. If the Templars were taken as children from their mother's grasp, and faced threat of tranquility if they didn't obey then yes you would be right. But its clearly not the case

 

Templars chose to be Templars.

 

Don't make it about who started the war now that you see what I mean. The Dalish have much stronger reason to be hostile towards Templars than mages. The circle is probably the ONLY PLACE IN THEDAS, were elves and humans are equal, because in the eyes of chantry they are mages frist then human or elf.

[andy6915]

Order has nothing to with it. A Templar has chosen to be a Templar but a mage is forced to be in the circle and again forced to be in the battle. If the Templars were taken as children from their mother's grasp, and faced threat of tranquility if they didn't obey then yes you would be right. But its clearly not the case

 

Templars chose to be Templars.

 

Don't make it about who started the war now that you see what I mean. The Dalish have much stronger reason to be hostile towards Templars than mages. The circle is probably the ONLY PLACE IN THEDAS, were elves and humans are equal, because in the eyes of chantry they are mages frist then human or elf.

 

Not always. Or was Alistair choosing to be one, despite hating the ever loving hell out of it and going with the first escape he was offered via Grey Wardens?

[Lulupab]

Not always. Or was Alistair choosing to be one, despite hating the ever loving hell out of it and going with the first escape he was offered via Grey Wardens?

 

That's a very rare exception. And I didn't say always anyhow.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Circle is not the only place. Humans and elves are also equal in the Grey Wardens and under the Qun.

[Lulupab]

I don't think I even have to mention Templars hunting Dalish mages, right? Because clearly, that's very friendly.

[Lulupab]

The Circle is not the only place. Humans and elves are also equal in the Grey Wardens and under the Qun.

 

lol, you're right. But the thing is, its still harder for them to climb in ranks as wardens because humans might still show a bit of bias. Not in recruiting mind you, but ranking up.

 

The elves are no longer "elves" under the qun though. However the thing is, in organizations that elves are treated equally, something removes their race from the importance of their mission/life so that's why they become equal since the same happens to everyone in the organization.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Humans might also show bias in the Circles.

[Lulupab]

Humans might also show bias in the Circles.

 

Well there have been many elven first enchanters, not to mention Fiona is grand enchanter aka the default leader of all mages. I mean it could happen, but its less likely than wardens. I think previous criminals, rapist etc.. are more inclined to be biased than mages who grew up with each other in gilded cages and getting to know each other, away from most things including bias.

[andy6915]

That's a very rare exception. And I didn't say always anyhow.

Not that rare at all. The human non-mage Inquisitor was also bound for being a templar whether they like it or not. Many people are given the chantry when they're young.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well there have been many elven first enchanters, not to mention Fiona is grand enchanter aka the default leader of all mages. I mean it could happen, but its less likely than wardens. I think previous criminals, rapist etc.. are more inclined to be biased than mages who grew up with each other in gilded cages and getting to know each other, away from most things including bias.

 

There have also been examples of high ranking elven Wardens. The one who lead the search of the Storm Coast for Stroud/Alister/Loghain was Dalish, for example. Garahel appeared to be the leader of the alliance armies that fought and defeated Andoral in the Fourth Blight.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not that rare at all. The human non-mage Inquisitor was also bound for being a templar whether they like it or not. Many people are given the chantry when they're young.

They can choose not to take vows.

Its voluntary.

[andy6915]

They can choose not to take vows.

Its voluntary.

 

So why did Alistair not simply say no?

[Master Warder Z_]

So why did Alistair not simply say no?

That's something he'd be required to answer, but I'd assume because he thought it would be best to just stay out of the way.

[Boost32]

Order has nothing to with it. A Templar has chosen to be a Templar but a mage is forced to be in the circle and again forced to be in the battle. If the Templars were taken as children from their mother's grasp, and faced threat of tranquility if they didn't obey then yes you would be right. But its clearly not the case
 
Templars chose to be Templars.
 
Don't make it about who started the war now that you see what I mean. The Dalish have much stronger reason to be hostile towards Templars than mages. The circle is probably the ONLY PLACE IN THEDAS, were elves and humans are equal, because in the eyes of chantry they are mages frist then human or elf.

And if a Templar recuse a order he can be court martialed, I really dont see the difference.

A elven templar is treated the same way as a human one, so you are wrong again.

[Boost32]

So why did Alistair not simply say no?

Alistair didnt take his vow if I remember exactly.

[themageguy]

I think my newly created Dalish male mage will just disband the Templars.

He will be pushing for Cassandra to recreate the Seekers and will help encourage Cullen to cut off from lyrium addiction.

[Lulupab]

And if a Templar recuse a order he can be court martialed, I really dont see the difference.

A elven templar is treated the same way as a human one, so you are wrong again.

 

And how many elven Templars we have? 

 

No a Templar will be kicked out, there is no "court marshal". Samson for example was kicked out. Stop stretching please. The fact that the Dalish move due to Templars is reason enough since everything else being discussed happened in the past but Templars hunting dalish mages is contemporary and still in memory.