720 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

It's not racist unless you go out of your way to make it so.

 

It depends on circumstances. If it comes up during conversation, then asking is totally okay. If you imply that being foreign is somehow bad, then it's racist.

 

For example... my neighbours are arabic, most likely muslims. I've talked with them about quite a few things but never once asked where they come from or what they do in here. It's not my business and unless they mention something, I'm not going to ask.

If "Where are you from?" was the first thing I said to them, then that would have been rude, but not racist.

 

The issue is that sometimes people who don't look northern European (i.e. Hispanic or Asian) are sometimes asked what country they are from, even when they were born in the country of the person asking the question. Its offensive because the person isn't just curious about their ethnic background, they are also assuming that the person is a foreigner just based on their appearance. Doubly so if the person answers that they are American or Canadian or what have you, and the person who asked the question follows it up with, "No really, what country are you from?"

 

To be fair though this is problem in many countries and isn't just exclusive to Western nations. Its also common in Japan for example for people who are mixed Japanese and American or European descent to be called foreigners, even if they were born and raised in Japan.

 

I dated a girl for awhile who had an American father and a Okinawan mother, and even though she was born and raised in Okinawa and spoke Japanese like a native, she was often called a foreigner. Some people would even correct her if they asked her where she was from and she said Japan. "No, that can't be. You're a foreigner. What country are you really from?" Ect.

 

That sort of thing is offensive to people because even if the person asking the question isn't intending to be ignorant, its sending a message that, "You aren't one of us and don't belong."

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Ah, so you probably did not know that Dorian's father wanted to have him fixed... I could also mention something about Cassandra, Sera, Varric, Iron Bull. It also interesting that Cole, Solas and Blackwall all have good reasons for not mentioning their parents.

 

Did I say bigotry was right regardless of who is the victim or who is the perpetrator? That was random.

 

 

Vivienne had a good reason for not mentioning her parents too. She was from the circle, where you are forced to forget your family ties. I'm still not sure where you are going with that.

 

Sorry for the other comment, it was more a general comment made in response to other conversations in the thread.

[Toasted Llama]

But then again if you are in Japan or some other Asian countries and speak language with no accent and you aren't Asian you will very likely be assumed as foreigner as well. So I don't really know if that's prejudice or more of what people are used to.

 

Same issue: "if you're not the same skin colour as the rest of us you must be a foreigner"

Indicating that skin colour has something to do with whether or not you're a part of the country.

 

 

. There has been continuous settlement of those areas by whiter people for nigh on 500 years in some places.

They've developed their own accents and cultures that differ, sometimes very significantly from their original one. Saying they aren't "native" just seems a little contrarian

 

500 years still seems like they arrived at a later point than human life in general began in that area. Either way, it doesn't matter, the majority of the white population living in those areas is of European descent.

 

 

Reading this thread, I learn I am no longer a native of the country my great-grandparents were born in. No longer a native of the country my white grandfather fought to defend in the second largest war the Earth has ever seen.

 

Yes, I'm sure it's really annoying to be subjected to the same type of bullshit PoC people get told.

 

The amount of times I've seen white people tell PoC who were born in the same, western country, like their (grand)parents to "go back to where they came from" as if these PoC are no part of a country their family born and raised in is disgusting.

 

 

In any case as a last general comment to the people who think the question "where are you from" is not racist; it's not always racist, but the idea that someone of a certain skin colour has to be from a certain area or belongs in a certain area, is prejudice, albeit not in a superiority context and prejudice based on race is considered racism.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Well, it's pretty subtle in how that question is racist (which is why not everyone believes the question to be racist). It's not racist as in the superiority definition, but the prejudice definition.

 

The prejudice part comes in when you look at who receives the question the most often or is most likely to receive such a question in the western countries: people of colour. It is "assumed" that because someone has a different skin colour, they must come from somewhere else. This question isn't asked when someone is of the same skin colour.

 

For the sake of simplicity I'm going to use foreign in the most basic definition:

for·eign

 (fôr′ĭn, fŏr′-)adj.1.

a. Located away from one's native country: on business in a foreign city.

 

 

As a European citizen I've seen this pretty often:

A white german of Russian descent will not be questioned if they have no accent - they are assumed to be german.

A black german of African descent will be questioned, even if they have no accent - they are assumed to be foreign.

 

Or to go even further:

A white american of Australian descent will not be questioned if they have no accent - they are assumed to be American.

A hispanic/latino american of Mexican descent will be questioned, even if they have no accent - they are assumed to be foreign.

The former came from another continent, the latter from a neighbouring country.

 

And that is where the prejudice part lies in the question: the prejudice that people of colour must be foreign, but white people are not, despite the fact that white people are the majority in 3 different areas (US + Canada, Europe and Australia + New Zealand), spread over dozens of different countries, on 3 entirely different continents. They could be as foreign as the people of colour. In fact; the white population from the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand could be considered just as foreign as the black and asian populations in those countries.

 

While I agree mostly, I have some quibbles

 

1. There is no such thing as 'no accent'.

2. You appear to be suggesting only white people do this. Chinese people regularly refer to me as a 'foreigner', in Canada, when they mean non Chinese. Imagine if I was living in China? We are all outsiders somewhere.

3. An Australian would likely prefer not to be called an American. It's not like we belong to one big happy club of melanin deficient humans.

[Panda]

no its definitely prejudice in Japan's case.

Xenophobia is second nature there

 

I'm not saying that it can be that, but I'd say that most people are probaply going with what is familiar to them and not by prejudice.

 

Same issue: "if you're not the same skin colour as the rest of us you must be a foreigner"

Indicating that skin colour has something to do with whether or not you're a part of the country.

 

Skin color doesn't have to do so much with nationality, but more of ethnicity and if you are part of main ethnicity of the country or not. But I agree that insisting that someone is foreigner based on ethnicity is rude, though I don't think mistaking someone has foreigner/immigrant etc. is.

[Steelcan]

While I agree mostly, I have some quibbles
 
1. There is no such thing as 'no accent'.
2. You appear to be suggesting only white people do this. Chinese people regularly refer to me as a 'foreigner', in Canada, when they mean non Chinese. Imagine if I was living in China? We are all outsiders somewhere.
3. An Australian would likely prefer not to be called an American. It's not like we belong to one big happy club of melanin deficient humans.

Lord knows melanin deficient people have issues with each other. As I'm sure the Irish will be more than happy to tell you about.

Then there's the French and English, Scottish and English, Germans and English, Welsh and English....... Hang on....

[Zazzerka]

Yes, I'm sure it's really annoying to be subjected to the same type of bullshit PoC people get told.

 

The amount of times I've seen white people tell PoC who were born in the same, western country, like their (grand)parents to "go back to where they came from" as if these PoC are no part of a country their family born and raised in is disgusting.

 

"Yes, I'm sure it's really annoying to be subjected to the same type of bullshit PoC people get told."

 

My country has taken great steps to appreciate the original inhabitants of the land we live on. There are dozens of social benefits available and an official holiday in place to try and make amends. Education includes massive discounts to the indigenous population. Employment agencies are encouraged to contact Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. There is little else we can do. I'm fully willing to share the country, but I still get called a white dog to my face, especially when Australia Day (or Invasion Day, depending on who you speak to) rolls around.

 

Despite that, I feel fully that this is my country as well, and I am just as Australian as them, and they are just as Australian as me.

 

Can a person of non-colour be subjected to bullshit?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

. There has been continuous settlement of those areas by whiter people for nigh on 500 years in some places.

They've developed their own accents and cultures that differ, sometimes very significantly from their original one. Saying they aren't "native" just seems a little contrarian

 

Not to mention the vast majority of non white people there have origins outside the continent as well.

 

People on the internet seems excessively sensitive sometimes. We all are from various ethnic backgrounds and it's not at all unusual for someone of one ethnic background to be curious about someone of another group.  Being from Canada, if someone told me they are from Bangledesh originally, I'd ask them how it was getting used to the winters. If some people find this rude then they are trying very hard to find something to be offended by.

 

On the other hand, if someone with dark skin was named Bob, and had exactly the same accent as me I'd assume they were from Canada, and grew up in a similar environment to myself. Asking where they are 'really from' would be rude, if not racist, but asking their ethnic background doesn't seem that rude to me. Same as if someone asks mine. I'll tell them my grandparents were British.  Some other white person might tell them their grandparents were from Latvia, or Norway. It's just a way for people to get to know each other.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Lord knows melanin deficient people have issues with each other. As I'm sure the Irish will be more than happy to tell you about.

Then there's the French and English, Scottish and English, Germans and English, Welsh and English....... Hang on....

 

English and German, French and German, Norwegian and Swedish, Russian and Ukrainians, Ukrainians and Poles, Serbs and Croats, Italians and Friench, Germans and Poles, Lithuanians and Russians, Finnish and Russians, Finnish and Swedish, Danish and Swedish, Danish and German, Spain, France and whatever that ethnic group between them is called..

 

 

Hang on to what exactly? I'm not sure where you are heading with that.

[Steelcan]

That was commentary on the English propensity for making friends with their neighbors

[DaemionMoadrin]

The issue is that sometimes people who don't look northern European (i.e. Hispanic or Asian) are sometimes asked what country they are from, even when they were born in the country of the person asking the question. Its offensive because the person isn't just curious about their ethnic background, they are also assuming that the person is a foreigner just based on their appearance. Doubly so if the person answers that they are American or Canadian or what have you, and the person who asked the question follows it up with, "No really, what country are you from?"

 

To be fair though this is problem in many countries and isn't just exclusive to Western nations. Its also common in Japan for example for people who are mixed Japanese and American or European descent to be called foreigners, even if they were born and raised in Japan.

 

I dated a girl for awhile who had an American father and a Okinawan mother, and even though she was born and raised in Okinawa and spoke Japanese like a native, she was often called a foreigner. Some people would even correct her if they asked her where she was from and she said Japan. "No, that can't be. You're a foreigner. What country are you really from?" Ect.

 

That sort of thing is offensive to people because even if the person asking the question isn't intending to be ignorant, its sending a message that, "You aren't one of us and don't belong."

 

Not that I disagree, but you do see the difference between our examples, right? You even said yourself it happens "sometimes".

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

That was commentary on the English propensity for making friends with their neighbors

 

OK, I don't think many other ethnic groups are that fond of each other either though. No need to single out the English. For instance the Germans and Japanese didn't exactly enamour themselves to their neighbours either, in the 1940's. Not to mention all the European countries and the rest of the world in the colonial period.

 

That said, the British, and other countries in Europe are foreign countries to me. I feel no kinship to them despite our shared melanin deficiency.

[Natureguy85]

 

 

My country has taken great steps to appreciate the original inhabitants of the land we live on. There are dozens of social benefits available and an official holiday in place to try and make amends. Education includes massive discounts to the indigenous population. Employment agencies are encouraged to contact Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. There is little else we can do. I'm fully willing to share the country, but I still get called a white dog to my face, especially when Australia Day (or Invasion Day, depending on who you speak to) rolls around.

 

Wow, that's terrible. I hope we never get that in the US. Everyone involved with settling this continent is dead, as are those who were mistreated. We don't owe anybody anything. Now, the horrible state of the government subsidized reservations, that's another story because it's current.

[DuskWanderer]

People stretch their definitions an awful lot to be offended when a character you can change the color of defaults to white.

[Panda]

People stretch their definitions an awful lot to be offended when a character you can change the color of defaults to white.

 

I think the problem is that white is always a default, why game developers don't mix it up sometimes?

[Jester]

Ah, so you probably did not know that Dorian's father wanted to have him fixed... I could also mention something about Cassandra, Sera, Varric, Iron Bull.

Mention it then. Because Sera and Bull definitely don't say anything about their families. 

Cassandra barely mentions hers, and Varric talks a bit about his family, but in DA2. 

 

Only Dorian's family is directly brought into the game.

Also, where are you going with this?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I think the problem is that white is always a default, why game developers don't mix it up sometimes?

 

I'm going to go with "because they are expecting the vast majority of their players to be white". I'm not agreeing with the reasoning, but I suspect that's what it is.

 

I also suspect games made in Japan for Japanese audiences have Japanese protagonists.

 

Bioware did try to 'mix it up' on gender selection for DAI. It came off as awkward to me though. Female is the default option, but it is also the second option when reading the radio buttons from left to right. Why not make female the first option then?

 

It would be like they make the default be a dark skinned protag, but the face they defaulted to was third on the list.

[Jester]

Bioware did try to 'mix it up' on gender selection for DAI. It came off as awkward to me though. Female is the default option, but it is also the second option when reading the radio buttons from left to right. Why not make female the first option then?

What do you mean, female is the default option?

[Toasted Llama]

While I agree mostly, I have some quibbles

 

1. There is no such thing as 'no accent'.

2. You appear to be suggesting only white people do this. Chinese people regularly refer to me as a 'foreigner', in Canada, when they mean non Chinese. Imagine if I was living in China? We are all outsiders somewhere.

3. An Australian would likely prefer not to be called an American. It's not like we belong to one big happy club of melanin deficient humans.

 

1. Everyone has an accent but you don't "hear" the accent of people you live around. Using 'no accent' is quite a bit shorter than 'the same accent as the people who live in <......>/a certain area'. Either way you're just being nitpicky now.

2. Never said it's only white peolpe who do this, I only used white people as an example, partially because I live in a majorily white country, so I've seen it first hand. I could've included every single other race as well, but not only would the post become an essay long, my point would've been clear after the first example. Again; you're being nitpicky here.

3. I never called an Australian an American. I called an American of Australian descent (as in, family was Australian) an American. It's the very distinction I'm trying to make with my point, I'm almost led to believe you missed the point entirely. Someone's descent/heritage should not and does not matter to someone's nationality. If your great great great grand parent grew up in Australia but moved to the USA, and from then on your family was born and raised in the USA, you're American. If your Australian parents moved to the USA and you were born and raised in the USA; you're American. If you were born and raised in Australia but moved to the USA you're Australian. And even then people can still call you American if you have an American passport if you decided to live there, no matter how much Australians might hate the Americans and vice versa.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

What do you mean, female is the default option?

 

It was the option selected when I first started the game.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

There is black-American accent?

 

Yes. It's sort of a manner of speaking, but mostly appears as a general sort of voice. Kind of hard to explain, but it's pretty recognizable. It's a regional/cultural thing, just like the New York accent, Boston accent, Mid-Atlantic accent, Texas accent, Southern accents, and so on.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

1. Everyone has an accent but you don't "hear" the accent of people you live around. Using 'no accent' is quite a bit shorter than 'the same accent as the people who live in <......>/a certain area'. Either way you're just being nitpicky now.

2. Never said it's only white peolpe who do this, I only used white people as an example, partially because I live in a majorily white country, so I've seen it first hand. I could've included every single other race as well, but not only would the post become an essay long, my point would've been clear after the first example. Again; you're being nitpicky here.

3. I never called an Australian an American. I called an American of Australian descent (as in, family was Australian) an American. It's the very distinction I'm trying to make with my point, I'm almost led to believe you missed the point entirely. Someone's descent/heritage should not and does not matter to someone's nationality. If your great great great grand parent grew up in Australia but moved to the USA, and from then on your family was born and raised in the USA, you're American. If your Australian parents moved to the USA and you were born and raised in the USA; you're American. If you were born and raised in Australia but moved to the USA you're Australian. And even then people can still call you American if you have an American passport if you decided to live there, no matter how much Australians might hate the Americans and vice versa.

 

Yes, that's what 'quibble' means.

[Toasted Llama]

Yes, that's what 'quibble' means.

 

Missed that,the rest of it is still incorrect quible though, of things I never even said - one of which I even adressed in a post earlier talking about Japanese citizens calling non-asian/mixed race people "foreign".

 

 

"Yes, I'm sure it's really annoying to be subjected to the same type of bullshit PoC people get told."

 

My country has taken great steps to appreciate the original inhabitants of the land we live on. There are dozens of social benefits available and an official holiday in place to try and make amends. Education includes massive discounts to the indigenous population. Employment agencies are encouraged to contact Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. There is little else we can do. I'm fully willing to share the country, but I still get called a white dog to my face, especially when Australia Day (or Invasion Day, depending on who you speak to) rolls around.

 

Despite that, I feel fully that this is my country as well, and I am just as Australian as them, and they are just as Australian as me.

 

Can a person of non-colour be subjected to bullshit?

 

I seem to fail to understand your point. If your point is white people go through bullshit too; I know. It's a snowball effect.

 

If your point is "We tried to say sorry but they still hate us!" good on you for apologizing, but again, I know. Go to tumblr. The pendulum is swinging, once all you've done all you can do is wait untill it settles in the middle. I'm expecting this will happen once the anger over previous racism has died down. Considering some countries are still struggling with racism, this could take a while.

[Zazzerka]

If your point is "We tried to say sorry but they still hate us!" good on you for apologizing, but again, I know. Go to tumblr.

 

It's significantly more than that, but then I would never try to tell you how you fit into your country. The issue I took was that you implied I wasn't "native" to the country I was born and raised in. The difference between my own ancestors and say, the Wiradjuri people, is a mere 40-50 thousand years - an eyeblink in the history of the Earth.

[Panda]

Yes. It's sort of a manner of speaking, but mostly appears as a general sort of voice. Kind of hard to explain, but it's pretty recognizable. It's a regional/cultural thing, just like the New York accent, Boston accent, Mid-Atlantic accent, Texas accent, Southern accents, and so on.

 

Alright. Hmm, I don't think it's however sth that needs new english voice for protagonist. Regular american/british accent should be enough no matter what race protagonist is in my opinion, otherwise there just would be so much accents it wouldn't make sense.